AUTO TO 4 SPEED ON SUPERBIRD

[B54SPEED]

I'm not sure if there is a right or wrong answer so in your opinion
on a numbers car would hurt, help or would the value stay the same
if a guy converted a auto on the floor to a 4 speed ?

[6bblgt]

as in the color change thread .....

I think as the desirability/value increases - modifications from STOCK/ORIGINAL do not help the end value

[odcics2]

as in the color change thread .....

I think as the desirability/value increases - modifications from STOCK/ORIGINAL do not help the end value

I agree...   

[Talkiemoparjr]

Me too...

[held1823]

the value would decrease by the amount needed to put it back to original, be it transmission, color change, or what have you

you could recoup part of the amount by selling the incorrect parts, but you're still upside down in the end

perhaps the only scenario not on the losing end is taking an incorrect hemi back to an original 440 configuration, since the hemi itself has considerable value

a daytona with a hemi is not even close to the same thing as a hemi daytona, so that swap does not excite anyone looking for originality

[chaaargerb]

If your car has a numbers matching driveline you would definitely not help the value of the car changing it to a 4 speed. By changing it you just took most of the high end investors out of the game. Now you would be dealing with more of the hobbyist group of people who would beat you down for every little thing they could to get the car for as cheap as they could. I made one change to my bird, I changed it from a 4 speed no console car to a 4 speed console car. I know I didn't hurt the value and it wouldn't be that hard to correct it. I have the correct non console pistol grip handle so if the next person didn't like it they would have to cut the console brackets off and put in a new carpet.     

[426HemiChick]

Me too...

06 September 2019

Just noticed your avatar and the comment below it. Reminds us of our garage, three cars in a two car garage and stuff piled on top of them. They sat that way for 40 years until we recently started to clean things up.

Don't let yours sit for 40 years; time isn't yours or your car's ally when it comes to our cars just sitting around being neglected.

I guess we can say we have a garage find.

EDIT in bold 07 Sep 19

Best  Always,

426 Hemi Chicks

[DAY CLONA]

I'm not sure if there is a right or wrong answer so in your opinion
on a numbers car would hurt, help or would the value stay the same
if a guy converted a auto on the floor to a 4 speed ?

Numbers or not, IMHO a 4 speed is a bonus that I would gladly desire/accept/pay for... I actually devalue a vehicle's asking price when considering a purchase knowing that it's equipped with an auto, esp a column shift... my rule of thumb, the more stuff that I need to convert to a manual, the lower my offer goes, or the more apt I'll look at another vehicle

[chargervert]

Just save all the original pieces needed to put the car back to correct,including the piece that you cut out of the floor to install the floor hump,so the next owner can put the car back to correct if they choose to do so. Build the car to your liking and enjoy it! Life's too short to worry about the value all the time!

[Talkiemoparjr]

Me too...

06 September 2019

Just noticed your avatar and the comment below it. Reminds us of our garage, three cars in a two car garage and stuff piled on top of them. They sat that way for 40 years until we recently started to clean things up.

Don't let yours sit for 40 years; time isn't yours or your ally when it comes to our cars just sitting around being neglected.

I guess we can say we have a garage find.

Best  Always,

426 Hemi Chicks

I'm sorry this is getting long I don't mean to hijack a post

Thanks for the wise word of encouragment.  I also encourage other owners to get there cars out and represent the car's history and educate others,

A little history on the Bird in my avatar, it is of my dad's 440 Six Barrel 4Speed (on topic ) Bird he purchased new May 1970. He is the original owner and most people here know him as talkiemopar (hi dad) never restored.
It was used on family vacations for the first years of its life.  Then we went to the first wing car event in I think was 1977.  We met so many interesting and super nice people my Mom and Dad decided to make every years Winged Warrior National Meets our family vacation.  I was 7 years old (oldest of 3 boys).  Going all over the country, even to LA all the way from Northern Kentucky (A entire month off work I think).
When I got older and had a son, his grand son went on those trips in my place. Now I have grandchildren and when they are old enough I am hoping that they could join my father, my sons and their children and I to some meets.
Now he is 77 and now I am now driving him to national meets (either wing clubs) meeting a lot of the same families, characters and cars from the past. His Bird has over 167,000 miles on it .
And he just attended a small car show at the local flea market Wednesday, did laps at Kentucky Speedway last march, plans to drive it to Atlanta Motor Speedway-Talladega in October and back to Ky Speedway on November 2nd for more laps.
Hopefully you and your MSP can attend some of the club events.  FIY some people don't bring their cars they just show and enjoy.
   Sincerely Junior talkiemopar

[aerolith]

Don't remember many, if any, Real Nascars being AUTO lol...

I would buy a 4-speed over an auto every time myself.
If its a true representation of an actual Nascar then its gotta be a bare bones 4-speed AERO!
An auto wingcar with an SE package 'is not' in any way a track/race car, just a selling point to sell 500+ models.

Yep hacking a big hole in the floor of a desirable Mopar and banging on gears seems odd to an American (maybe), but we Brits say YES PLEASE!!!
Auto's are a rare beast in the UK and 'GEARS' are the NORM, yep Mr.Norm...

When the factory told Mr.Norm "you can't put a 383ci in a 67 Dart", guess what HE DID!!!
So embarrased was Mother Mopar they then fitted the 440ci motor, 'to save face'...

Its your car, do as you wish, drive 'em whilst you can, the ECO Warriors are watching you and me...

Ask Mr.Norm 'what would you do'?

[gtx6970]

IMO, it will sell faster as a 4 spd. but the  value is going to take a pretty good hit 

[odcics2]

Don't remember many, if any, Real Nascars being AUTO lol...

I would buy a 4-speed over an auto every time myself.
If its a true representation of an actual Nascar then its gotta be a bare bones 4-speed AERO!
An auto wingcar with an SE package 'is not' in any way a track/race car, just a selling point to sell 500+ models.

Yep hacking a big hole in the floor of a desirable Mopar and banging on gears seems odd to an American (maybe), but we Brits say YES PLEASE!!!
Auto's are a rare beast in the UK and 'GEARS' are the NORM, yep Mr.Norm...

When the factory told Mr.Norm "you can't put a 383ci in a 67 Dart", guess what HE DID!!!
So embarrased was Mother Mopar they then fitted the 440ci motor, 'to save face'...

Its your car, do as you wish, drive 'em whilst you can, the ECO Warriors are watching you and me...

Ask Mr.Norm 'what would you do'?

Actually, in the fall of '69,  Dan Gurney and Bobby Isaac tested the #88 with a beefed up 727 at Riverside.  The idea was to make up for most drivers missing shifts and sucking at a road course!   It didn't pan out...  Pic below is the Lockheed recorder remote buttons that were mounted on the tunnel, next to the driver.

[Aero426]

If you are going to the trouble of converting an auto to a manual for driving pleasure,  a five speed is the way to go.   

[Ghoste]

You can put another check in the unmodified column for me.  I think in the case of things like wing cars it would sell easier and for more money left stock.

[odcics2]

A reason people make clone cars.....   A do what you want project without shooting yourself in the foot....     

[moparstuart]

If you are going to the trouble of converting an auto to a manual for driving pleasure,  a five speed is the way to go.   

smaller hole in the tunnel  ( small square on top  and no need for the hump also   )   

[hemi68charger]

If you are going to the trouble of converting an auto to a manual for driving pleasure,  a five speed is the way to go.   

smaller hole in the tunnel  ( small square on top  and no need for the hump also   )   

We talking Tremec Stu and Mike?

[DAY CLONA]

If you are going to the trouble of converting an auto to a manual for driving pleasure,  a five speed is the way to go.    

smaller hole in the tunnel  ( small square on top  and no need for the hump also   )  

We talking Tremec Stu and Mike?

Yes Tremec, what else is there? I wouldn't waste my time converting over to a 833 4 spd, 5 spds are kind of "old school" now, 6 spds are worth cutting up the floor for, if your going 5 spd Tremec, it's a tight fit in the auto hump, you really need the factory manual hump, gives you more room, plus the Tremec OD's get really hot after prolonged runs in OD, nothing like a .64 or .50 5/6 spd in a wingcar, you can have steep gears for the street and still manage triple digit MPH speeds, along with decent MPG gains as well... after you've driven a car set up this way, you'll never think twice/worry about modifying a vehicle for one regardless of it's value/pedigree IMHO

Mike  

[mopar346]

I've argued for the last few years that you wont hurt the value of column shift car by converting it to a 4 speed even on higher end cars but admittedly I have factored the super elite cars into that equation. In the end game I believe more value is gained or lost in the quality of the build, a correctly detailed undercarriage  will draw more money than many would believe, although mine aren't perfect there is a lot of effort put into details that will maintain it's finishes for a considerable amount of time and mileage. I cant tell you how many "restored" "high end" cars that are little more than a paint job. One of the first things I look at on a car is the wiper pivot seals, if they are painted over you can bet the car didn't come apart to be done even close to correct.

[moparstuart]

If you are going to the trouble of converting an auto to a manual for driving pleasure,  a five speed is the way to go.   

smaller hole in the tunnel  ( small square on top  and no need for the hump also   )   

We talking Tremec Stu and Mike?

yes i was   , i went with the 6 speed  which is a whole bigger can of worms  , but the 5 speed is way less invasive and a great option if your looking for Overdrive and easy install .
I sure love the 6 speed but it was alot more work and would not be easy to return the car to stock .   

[Redbird]

Out of a total of approximately 2500 wing cars, I'll approximate here and say 1900 are left in various forms.

Out of that I'll guess that less than 10 percent of those are driven over 2000 miles per year. 190 cars-probably less.

If top end is your worry, the average new larger BMW has you easily covered. I do not see too many winged cars being set up to do a Cannonball across the US.

The purists won't like anything other than stock. However, they are the same folks that say; auto on the column, non numbers, no fender tag, no broadcast sheets, changed colors, etc..... are all basically worthless cars. When a auto on the column car comes up they say "if only it had a 4-spd". Yet somehow these supposedly worthless cars seem to sell.

Our cars were a lot more fun when everyone did not have to be exactly perfect on some money only scale.

Look at the Big Willie Daytona, on the web and every magazine said "Restore it like a day two car" the owner did that and took a bath. Much as I hate to think of it, I'll likely cut the roll cage out of my old race car. The market does not like modified cars, it likes posers. Most owners today want to imagine a perfect past.

Would I cut the floor today? Probably no. I have done it in the past though.

The kids of today are going to want electric cars. So do what you want and have fun!

[moparstuart]

Out of a total of approximately 2500 wing cars, I'll approximate here and say 1900 are left in various forms.

Out of that I'll guess that less than 10 percent of those are driven over 2000 miles per year. 190 cars-probably less.

If top end is your worry, the average new larger BMW has you easily covered. I do not see too many winged cars being set up to do a Cannonball across the US.

The purists won't like anything other than stock. However, they are the same folks that say; auto on the column, non numbers, no fender tag, no broadcast sheets, changed colors, etc..... are all basically worthless cars. When a auto on the column car comes up they say "if only it had a 4-spd". Yet somehow these supposedly worthless cars seem to sell.

Our cars were a lot more fun when everyone did not have to be exactly perfect on some money only scale.

Look at the Big Willie Daytona, on the web and every magazine said "Restore it like a day one car" the owner did that and took a bath. Much as I hate to think of it, I'll likely cut the roll cage out of my old race car. The market does not like modified cars, it likes posers. Most owners today want to imagine a perfect past.

Would I cut the floor today? Probably no. I have done it in the past though.

The kids of today are going to want electric cars. So do what you want and have fun!

Drive it like you stole it 

[6bblgt]

Look at the Big Willie Daytona, on the web and every magazine said "Restore it like a day one car" the owner did that and took a bath. Much as I hate to think of it, I'll likely cut the roll cage out of my old race car. The market does not like modified cars, it likes posers. Most owners today want to imagine a perfect past.

when was it a "Restore it like a day one car" & where did it sell?

[held1823]

i believe he meant restoring it in willie livery (day two) resulted in the bath taking, whereas putting it back to factory would have increased the value

at least that's how i read it

[B54SPEED]

I'm not sure if there is a right or wrong answer so in your opinion
on a numbers car would hurt, help or would the value stay the same
if a guy converted a auto on the floor to a 4 speed ?

Ok wasn't completely honest with the question what if it was this car and it already had a color change

[Alaskan_TA]

The car looks awesome just as it is.

To me for any limited production car that has made it 50 years with its original drive train intact, I'd show it some respect & leave it that way.

[gtx6970]

The car looks awesome just as it is.

To me for any limited production car that has made it 50 years with its original drive train intact, I'd show it some respect & leave it that way.

^   agreed

[70Sbird]

I'm going to say that "it depends" 
My car was born a Column Auto bench seat car. the original drivetrain has been MIA since the early 1980s. It has been converted by it's previous owner(s) into a console 4-speed with bucket seats using all factory parts and even a 3.54 geared Dana 60. My car is a real Superbird but it's driver quality and does get driven regularly. My car would be on the low end of the food chain simply by being a Column Auto, regardless of the fact that it's not kept it's original drivetrain. It now has a 500 CID stroker 440, a 4 speed and a Dana. I believe that these mods wont hurt my cars value and the 4-speed may actually increase my value compared to an original non numbers Column/bench seat car
Just my $.02 

[Aero426]

I'm going to say that "it depends"  
My car was born a Column Auto bench seat car. the original drivetrain has been MIA since the early 1980s. It has been converted by it's previous owner(s) into a console 4-speed with bucket seats using all factory parts and even a 3.54 geared Dana 60. My car is a real Superbird but it's driver quality and does get driven regularly. My car would be on the low end of the food chain simply by being a Column Auto, regardless of the fact that it's not kept it's original drivetrain. It now has a 500 CID stroker 440, a 4 speed and a Dana. I believe that these mods wont hurt my cars value and the 4-speed may actually increase my value compared to an original non numbers Column/bench seat car
Just my $.02  

"I want a column automatic", said no one ever.  

If you sold your car tomorrow, there is some built in value because your car has been built to drive with popular options and is ready to drive.   Because it is already out of the rarified air of a low miles survivor, there really is no harm done.   

[Aero426]

I'm not sure if there is a right or wrong answer so in your opinion
on a numbers car would hurt, help or would the value stay the same
if a guy converted a auto on the floor to a 4 speed ?

Ok wasn't completely honest with the question what if it was this car and it already had a color change

In the case of Disco,  the car is already a rock star with a known identity.    I would not change a thing.    Restoring this car would be like Kiss performing without makeup.   

[mopar346]

Of course I don't play in that market but I'd pay a whole lot more for Willie's car as raced than as it or any other came off the show room.

I love day 2 cars and I love original or correct cars, I really don't care for half done cars.

[Alaskan_TA]

That car should be preserved as is.

[odcics2]

I'm not sure if there is a right or wrong answer so in your opinion
on a numbers car would hurt, help or would the value stay the same
if a guy converted a auto on the floor to a 4 speed ?

Ok wasn't completely honest with the question what if it was this car and it already had a color change

That car?   Don't even add air to the tires!!     

[B54SPEED]

Gee wiz you guys aren't  making this easy 
So going back to Hemi Orange is out of the question 

[Redbird]

That car should be preserved as is.

Says a person who likely has absolutely no interest in a future purchase of your car, either with a 4 spd or column auto. Same with all his friends.

We seem to have created a hobby where the only value perceived is all original, all paperwork, yet the column auto cars are viewed as so far down on the pecking order as to be viewed as nearly worthless. Some people seem to want them kept, but only as a marker to raise their desirable cars as most high.

I'm going to say that "it depends"  
My car was born a Column Auto bench seat car. the original drivetrain has been MIA since the early 1980s. It has been converted by it's previous owner(s) into a console 4-speed with bucket seats using all factory parts and even a 3.54 geared Dana 60. My car is a real Superbird but it's driver quality and does get driven regularly. My car would be on the low end of the food chain simply by being a Column Auto, regardless of the fact that it's not kept it's original drivetrain. It now has a 500 CID stroker 440, a 4 speed and a Dana. I believe that these mods wont hurt my cars value and the 4-speed may actually increase my value compared to an original non numbers Column/bench seat car
Just my $.02  

"I want a column automatic", said no one ever.  

If you sold your car tomorrow, there is some built in value because your car has been built to drive with popular options and is ready to drive.   Because it is already out of the rarified air of a low miles survivor, there really is no harm done.    

For a non numbers car, Doug has a good insight IMHO.

[DAY CLONA]

We seem to have created a hobby where the only value perceived is all original, all paperwork

We the enthusiasts created the hobby, the speculators that got into it merely created the perception of only "all original, all paperwork" vehicles as having supreme value/desirability to keep the tier system of pricing simple and to eliminate the many multiples/complexities in pricing that a modified vehicle warrants.... and the sheep in the hobby bought into the perception created


What" true automotive enthusiast" would prefer having a column auto over a 4 spd? 


Mike

[Alaskan_TA]

Says a person who likely has absolutely no interest in a future purchase of your car, either with a 4 spd or column auto. Same with all his friends.

We seem to have created a hobby where the only value perceived is all original, all paperwork, yet the column auto cars are viewed as so far down on the pecking order as to be viewed as nearly worthless. Some people seem to want them kept, but only as a marker to raise their desirable cars as most high.

Well for the record, I have three here with column shift automatics - so far & they will stay that way.

All 4-doors too.

I buy what I like & enjoy. As far as 'desirable' goes, I love my 4-doors but I am not opposed to two doors at all.

And....... two different pals recently bought a 500 & a Superbird. Another pal is stopping by here on his way to the wing car meet next month. Both Superbirds are column shift. :-)

[gtx6970]

What" true automotive enthusiast" would prefer having a column auto over a 4 spd? 


Mike

I for one would take a column auto over a 4 spd car  any day, any car, any time

Maybe Im not a true enthusiast ?,,,,ummmmmmmm doubt that

[Alaskan_TA]

Any 'true auto enthusiast' respects the cars unique history.

Column shift or any other shifter type is not a limitation for any TRUE enthusiast.

A biased enthusiast though? Perhaps.

[Redbird]

A crew cab sedan or station wagon I would be happy to have as an auto on the column.

A non numbers 2 door is for fun. The correctness police are welcome by me to keep their own cars as they please. Many of us don't buy all the self righteous preaching. Life is too short to not lighten up.

[alfaitalia]

What" true automotive enthusiast" would prefer having a column auto over a 4 spd? 


Mike

I for one would take a column auto over a 4 spd car  any day, any car, any time

Maybe Im not a true enthusiast ?,,,,ummmmmmmm doubt that

In my opinion (and it's nothing more than that) you need to define the sort of enthusiast. An enthusiastic collector of the marque would want it all original (that's not me...but it's cool). But a real driving enthusiast..people who like the thrill of driving regardless of car type and make...people who will go out early in the morning (to avoid traffic) just to practice there car control skills (steering from the rear, finding the limits of traction, beating their time through their time through their favourite collection of turns on a country lane etc etc) will always want a manual for ultimate car control.
Before you disagree (which is fine) bear in mind I live in the UK where autos have never sold in big numbers (usually 10% or less...which is even more pertinent considering our very busy roads and city traffic levels...but we still want manuals). Auto are usually seen as the lazy option and driven by old people or those that would, four whatever reason, physically struggle with a manual box. Out of the thirty something cars I've had only two have been auto.....my Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee and my Audi A8 4.2 V8.....both of which were never available as a manual which is a pity as both would have been better with slick 6 speed...especially when off road in the Jeep where the auto was pretty hopeless...

[DAY CLONA]

What" true automotive enthusiast" would prefer having a column auto over a 4 spd? 


Mike

I for one would take a column auto over a 4 spd car  any day, any car, any time

Maybe Im not a true enthusiast ?,,,,ummmmmmmm doubt that

In my opinion (and it's nothing more than that) you need to define the sort of enthusiast. An enthusiastic collector of the marque would want it all original (that's not me...but it's cool). But a real driving enthusiast..people who like the thrill of driving regardless of car type and make...people who will go out early in the morning (to avoid traffic) just to practice there car control skills (steering from the rear, finding the limits of traction, beating their time through their time through their favourite collection of turns on a country lane etc etc) will always want a manual for ultimate car control.
Before you disagree (which is fine) bear in mind I live in the UK where autos have never sold in big numbers (usually 10% or less...which is even more pertinent considering our very busy roads and city traffic levels...but we still want manuals). Auto are usually seen as the lazy option and driven by old people or those that would, four whatever reason, physically struggle with a manual box. Out of the thirty something cars I've had only two have been auto.....my Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee and my Audi A8 4.2 V8.....both of which were never available as a manual which is a pity as both would have been better with slick 6 speed...especially when off road in the Jeep where the auto was pretty hopeless...

I thought most would get the "true automotive enthusiast" quote, but yes the enjoyment of driving a manual transmission vehicle, not the "collector" type that polishes the dust off his garage queen numbers matching paint daub...

I've never seen anybody over the decades that when buying/looking at a performance vehicle opened the door and jumped for joy and hooted that it had a column shifted auto.... even an auto on the floor was barely acceptable

[odcics2]

If you like a "high dollar collectable" with a stick, buy one that way and enjoy it. 

If you can't, make a clone to your specs and enjoy at as a simple machine.

What we did back when the cars were pretty worthless can't be the same as when a car was $2,570.,
and now is worth $175,000.  (example is my first Bird.)

Well, unless you have money to burn!!!   

[moparstuart]

Comes down to if your more worried about the Money  , or truely enjoying the car  .  

[odcics2]

Come down to if your more worried about the Money  , or truely enjoying the car  .  

That's the "money to burn" part.....  

Plenty of stick cars out there!!   Even autos already converted!!!  


Here's a nice car to drop a 455 4 speed into!!!

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/tricities-pitt-maple/time-capsule-1966-parisienne-with-12-xxx-orig-miles/1445209077?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

[A13]

Now I'm getting confused here.  Tell me which ones are doing the self righteous preaching?  Is it the ones who are so insecure they can't stand to be seen in a column auto?    Or the ones that say cut it up it's just a toy? 

Never mind, same crowd!

Do you guys pick on little kids and animals as well?

[A13]

I'm going to say that "it depends" 
My car was born a Column Auto bench seat car. the original drivetrain has been MIA since the early 1980s. It has been converted by it's previous owner(s) into a console 4-speed with bucket seats using all factory parts.

I believe that these mods wont hurt my cars value and the 4-speed may actually increase my value compared to an original non numbers Column/bench seat car

No it hasn't.  The charger seat upholstery and the bench seat door panels really make it look like a patchwork job.  It would be worth more to finish the change correctly, and look WWAAAYYY better.
Just my $.02 

[odcics2]

Nice we can all express our opinions. 

[chargervert]

I don't blame him for wanting the 70 Charger bucket seats in his Superbird, they were by far the best factory seats Chrysler ever put in any car from the era. Not every car has to be OEM correct. There are plenty of pure stock examples out there to look at.

[moparstuart]

 

[70Sbird]

I'm going to say that "it depends" 
My car was born a Column Auto bench seat car. the original drivetrain has been MIA since the early 1980s. It has been converted by it's previous owner(s) into a console 4-speed with bucket seats using all factory parts.

I believe that these mods wont hurt my cars value and the 4-speed may actually increase my value compared to an original non numbers Column/bench seat car

No it hasn't.  The charger seat upholstery and the bench seat door panels really make it look like a patchwork job.  It would be worth more to finish the change correctly, and look WWAAAYYY better.
Just my $.02 

I actually like the Charger seat covers, as long as they hold up and look decent they will be staying, and I believe that they are more comfortable than the correct seat covers and foam for a Superbird. The door panels have been on the list to replace for about 10 years, but with three other "hobby" cars, I need to prioritize what gets spent on what car and they just haven't risen to the top of the list yet.

[moparstuart]

I'm going to say that "it depends"  
My car was born a Column Auto bench seat car. the original drivetrain has been MIA since the early 1980s. It has been converted by it's previous owner(s) into a console 4-speed with bucket seats using all factory parts.

I believe that these mods wont hurt my cars value and the 4-speed may actually increase my value compared to an original non numbers Column/bench seat car

No it hasn't.  The charger seat upholstery and the bench seat door panels really make it look like a patchwork job.  It would be worth more to finish the change correctly, and look WWAAAYYY better.
Just my $.02  

I actually like the Charger seat covers, as long as they hold up and look decent they will be staying, and I believe that they are more comfortable than the correct seat covers and foam for a Superbird. The door panels have been on the list to replace for about 10 years, but with three other "hobby" cars, I need to prioritize what gets spent on what car and they just haven't risen to the top of the list yet.

save your money  , just give me that money pit of yours and spend that money on your A body project  problem solved  

[1RareBird]

While my superbird is already a 4-speed, i don't currently have the numbers one so i'm going Passon 5-speed if i can get one.  If my bird was a non-numbers column auto i'd probably not hesitate to change to buckets/console. Numbers cars are a whole different story IMO.

[aerolith]

Do what ever you want to your Birdy!

Just don't let it end up like these...

[aerolith]

If I had a Birdy, I would do this LOL!