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Author Topic: Engine build - exhaust  (Read 6623 times)
Challenger340
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« Reply #75 on: February 03, 2020, 07:01:32 PM »

Sorry I was not able to make it Mitch, I am still pretty sick, wish they would have had afr reading & try to address the valvetrain  issues, noise ect, that motor will make more power if that problem was fixed, & jetting of the carb, even where its at now it will scare the crap out of you.

I agree Charlie.... LOTS left in that Engine !     nonetheless, it will still rock as is.

Hope your feeling better soon.
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green69rt
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« Reply #76 on: February 03, 2020, 07:11:49 PM »

Sorry I was not able to make it Mitch, I am still pretty sick, wish they would have had afr reading & try to address the valvetrain  issues, noise ect, that motor will make more power if that problem was fixed, & jetting of the carb, even where its at now it will scare the crap out of you.

Good to hear from you, Charlie.  I had lots of fun. 

Yes valve train issues with these heads.  If I wanted to do anything over 5000 RPM, there would need to be some work done, probably springs.  They asked if I wanted to tear the head down again and add higher rate springs.  I declined.  Also, every time they upped the coolant temp the engine got quieter so we'll see what happens in a Houston summer.  The oil was still the break in oil.  For me, it's going to be fine for a while.  I'll be able to get Charlie to help with final tuning, not many folks out there that can tune a carburated car today. 

I'm happy with it as  first step.   
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Paul G
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« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2020, 08:06:11 PM »

I am about ready to buy the rockers for my 440 to 505 build. I have recently learned something that may help you. I am using a hydraulic roller cam and Harland Sharp roller rockers. Using the Trick Flow PP240 heads. Harland Sharp rockers are listed for big block mopar, BUT, they list the same part number except it has an E after it if using with Edelbrock or Trick Flow heads. I called in to Mancini this morning and asked about that. Mancini told me a customer was using the standard big block Mopar roller rockers with Eddy heads and had trouble, HS made a revised rocker for the Eddy and TF heads, put an E at the end of the part number. The revised rocker is what I must use.

Any one have better info?   
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1972 Charger Topper Special, 360ci, 46RH OD trans, 8 3/4 sure grip with 3.91 gear, 14.93@92 mph.
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BSB67
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« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2020, 08:12:32 PM »

I am about ready to buy the rockers for my 440 to 505 build. I have recently learned something that may help you. I am using a hydraulic roller cam and Harland Sharp roller rockers. Using the Trick Flow PP240 heads. Harland Sharp rockers are listed for big block mopar, BUT, they list the same part number except it has an E after it if using with Edelbrock or Trick Flow heads. I called in to Mancini this morning and asked about that. Mancini told me a customer was using the standard big block Mopar roller rockers with Eddy heads and had trouble, HS made a revised rocker for the Eddy and TF heads, put an E at the end of the part number. The revised rocker is what I must use.

Any one have better info?   

Its the distance between the the rocker shaft center line and valve center line being slightly different from the factory head.  Really not that big of a deal. Using one on the other would not cause anything like what the OP is experiencing. 
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500" NA, Eddy head, pump gas, exhaust manifold with 2 1/2 exhaust with tailpipes
4150 lbs with driver, 3.23 gear, stock converter
11.68 @ 120.2 mph
green69rt
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« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2020, 08:13:19 PM »

As far as the comment about the valve train going away at 4700, that seems a little low to me.  I think the cam and springs are done at 5000, and then depending on everything else, I might get another 100 or 200 RPM out of it, but it's not worth anything and things are falling off fairly fast at that point.  Looking at the graphs (sorry I didn't get them printed out) everything was really smooth and even, various runs had small changes but they laid on top of each other fairly close.  Yes, the timing changes made a few HP here and there but nothing to get excited about.  I am disappointed that they did not use a AFR meter. 

We did have a discussion on the next step.  Given that the pulls were done with different headers and out of the car, the guys said that anything beyond what we tested  may be wasted effort.  Get the engine in the car, mount the headers and then see what can be done.  That's where CDR will come in.  But in the end, 10 more HP may not make much diff in how it feels in the seat of my pants.

Right now the spark plugs looked really good, idle was smooth and the pulls were nice and even up to 5000 RPM.  And 540 ftlbs of torque!!  That seems like a gob!
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green69rt
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« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2020, 08:20:26 PM »

Final comment.  The valve float at high RPM was distinctly different when we changed the coolant temp from 155 (noisy) to 165 to 180 (quietest).  Could it be that the lifters were the problem because of the changing viscosity of the oil?
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Challenger340
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« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2020, 11:13:21 PM »

Do you by chance know what the installed V/Spring Pressure and rate was ? as it was run on the Dyno ?
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cdr
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« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2020, 12:08:07 AM »

Do you by chance know what the installed V/Spring Pressure and rate was ? as it was run on the Dyno ?

 Than you Bob Smiley The Machine shop should know, we had them take the heads apart, back cut intake valves, check & reassemble them.
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green69rt
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« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2020, 05:34:40 AM »

 Charlie, pm sent
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green69rt
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« Reply #84 on: February 04, 2020, 01:47:14 PM »

Do you by chance know what the installed V/Spring Pressure and rate was ? as it was run on the Dyno ?

I think this is right.  Measured at 125 on the seat, 305 at max lift(0.6).  I'll confirm.  My cam is .488/.491.
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green69rt
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« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2020, 09:42:00 AM »

Final

400 Block.  Bare and hot tanked.  Bored 0.030.  $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.      
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone.      $1,050.00
So saved those labor costs.  So block works out to about $375 plus shipping.       
Edlebrook E-street heads with tax.      $1,335.42
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax.      $2,571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping.      $232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger.      $217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit.  Shipping      $259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax.      $795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping.      $386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax      $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax.      $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax      $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax      $359.59
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping      $1,138.60
MSD dist and HE coil w/tax      $512.41
Solid Flex plate, bolt kit, billit timing pointer (bling), shipping              $131.07
Edlebrock Valve cover set w/tax      $251.73
Proform Black Street Series Carburetors 67314   w/tax      $554.62
used off of old 383,  dist hold down, damper bolt.      $0.00
Rear main seal cap, bolts, seals, intake gaskets(4), water pump neck bolts, shipping      $97.56
Starter, tax      $171.71
Spark plug wires      $141.00
wire seperators, intake bolts, carb studs, shipping, tax      $62.50
Dipstick,SS thermostat housing (bling), tax      $120.98
Carb Fuel line w/press gage, tax,shipping      $73.42
Breather cap, valve cover studs, tax, shipping      $61.49

Labor including hot tank, freeze plugs, final assembly, Shim springs 0.060,
backcut intake valves 30 deg.                                                                         $2800

Misc parts including cam bearings, freeze plugs, gaskets, pushrods, spark plugs, oil, gas, tax   $400.53
      
Grand Total      $14,241.08      
   

[/quote]
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b5blue
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« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2020, 09:46:40 AM »

171.00 for a starter?  scratchchin What did they sell you?
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firefighter3931
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« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2020, 08:10:53 PM »

Those are very nice numbers for a mild street build. It'll be a blast to drive with all that bottom end power.  2thumbs

Instant tire smoke at 1/2 throttle  drive

Good job guys !  cheers


Ron
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green69rt
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« Reply #88 on: February 20, 2020, 08:51:00 PM »

Those are very nice numbers for a mild street build. It'll be a blast to drive with all that bottom end power.  2thumbs

Instant tire smoke at 1/2 throttle  drive

Good job guys !  cheers


Ron

Not quite the end of the story.  After talking to the machine shop and Charlie, the shop added .060 shims under the springs (expect to add about 25 lbs pressure,)  Jeff (machine shop owner) recommended to get away from the valve float problem.  No more dyno runs because they already took it off the stand so we won't know anything till it is in the car and we fire it up.  Given the way I drive, the shims will be enough improvement that I'll be satisfied.  Just for info, the springs on the estreet head are really low pressure, according to Edlebrock the spring pressure is only 280 at .480 lift, 138 on the seat.  Maybe not the best setup for a XE cam... shruggy
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green69rt
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« Reply #89 on: February 20, 2020, 08:53:12 PM »

171.00 for a starter?  scratchchin What did they sell you?

Not my smartest choice.  It was a PowerMaster starter from Summit.  Nice thing about it is that the terminals easily cleared the block.
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b5blue
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« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2020, 09:41:02 AM »

Send it back!  lol https://www.aspwholesale.com/terminal-block-nd-p7746.html
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green69rt
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« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2020, 10:30:31 PM »


It's now a used part, no returns.  But that is an interesting solution.
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b5blue
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« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2020, 09:29:50 AM »

Just teasing ya!
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green69rt
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« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2020, 10:11:54 AM »

Just teasing ya!

Well, dang!  Now I have to get down off my hi horse.  ( still a neat solution.)
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comet_666
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« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2020, 01:30:40 PM »

This looks great!!
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green69rt
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« Reply #95 on: March 19, 2020, 08:12:05 AM »

Pic #1,2,3 Transmission arrived and in garage.
Pic #4 Trans in the car ready for converter and engine.
Pic #5 engine bolted up to trans,  and motor mounts, headers in

Got to say, putting those headers in was a pain.  Biggest problem was the driver side.  Turns out the header is directly blocking the long bolt that attaches the mount to the k frame.  No way to bolt the mount to the engine and then bolt to k frame.  Two options, leave the header in place but dangling free while bolting up the mounts then bolt down the header.   Or, bolt mount to the k frame, install engine and then bolt mount to engine.  TTI recommends first method and it worked.  

Edit: before I forget...the bolts for the motor mount are different for my 76 block vs the old 69 383 block.  a couple of the ears that are on the block are thicker and require a longer bolt.


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cdr
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« Reply #96 on: March 19, 2020, 02:54:44 PM »

 Shocked  AWESOMENESS !!!  2thumbs
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green69rt
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« Reply #97 on: March 19, 2020, 04:25:26 PM »

If nothing else, it is pretty.  Getting the trans cross member in today.  Had to stop while the bolts cool down from RPM treatment.
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b5blue
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« Reply #98 on: March 19, 2020, 07:41:22 PM »

Looking good SIR!  2thumbs
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sy440m
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« Reply #99 on: March 20, 2020, 06:04:00 PM »

Where did you get the SS thermostat housing from?
Motor looks sharp.
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