60 Dart Seneca 2dr.

[b5blue]

How are you getting that reading? Could the fan be on backwards?

[lloyd3]

The fan works fine, held my hand in front of the rad to make sure it was pulling air properly. The radiator was professionally boiled and rodded out. We also pulled the lower rad hose to make sure it hadn't delaminated and failed internally....it's fine as well.

[b5blue]

No chance the intake hose is getting sucked closed? I have a spring inside mine. Timing far advanced? Leaned out carb? 

[hemigeno]

Don't make any assumptions about your (new?) thermostat.  MANY of them are defective right out of the box, even the so-called high flow versions.  Check the one you have in a boiling pot of water.  Some t-stats will barely start to open up at 212*.

You might also run it with a restrictor inserted in place of the thermostat (rather than running with nothing at all) which is opened to the same diameter as your thermostat when it's wide open.  It'll take longer to warm up, but you'll be getting full coolant flow.

[GreenMachine]

One more thing to consider, but not likely is I've heard of people replacing freeze plugs by hammering them inside the engine and installing a new one. They can restrict flow if they get wedged somewhere just right. But if you see good flow across the top of the radiator, that's probably not it.
My vote is the radiator, just because it was rodded doesn't mean it's as good as new.

[Kern Dog]

I do enjoy this story...Old classic land yacht with a slant six, getting a new lease on life. 

[lloyd3]

My boy washed his car the other day. I was surprised by how good the original paint actually looked when it isn't covered in bird poop and greasy handprints.



Spring is finally here for good. The other good news here is that he got hired by Home Depot last week. Progress on the car can begin again.

[Bronzedodge]

Don't make any assumptions about your (new?) thermostat.  MANY of them are defective right out of the box, even the so-called high flow versions.  Check the one you have in a boiling pot of water. 

Agreed.  Reading on the web it seems the Mr Gasket ones are notorious for this.  The EMP/Stewart ones are a bit more, but no worries with mine.

[lloyd3]

Anybody here ever have any success with re-coring a radiator?  My radiator guy says he can recore with a more-densely packed unit for more heat-exchange capacity. Does that sound right?

[GreenMachine]

I had one done, and yes they can ad a more efficient core, but mine cost over $300. And it still ran well above the thermostat temp of 180 idling in gear in summer.
I would see if the aftermarket makes a factory looking radiator for less $$$ if I had to do it again. This was in a big block A body and I had fan clearance to consider.

[XH29N0G]

It looks really nice.  Working out the bugs is a pain in process, but satisfying when done.  Thanks for posting.

[DAY CLONA]

Anybody here ever have any success with re-coring a radiator?  My radiator guy says he can recore with a more-densely packed unit for more heat-exchange capacity. Does that sound right?

Yes it's a micro-tube core, depending on the size of the top/bottom tanks they have upwards of 6 rows available, I have a 5 row micro core stuffed into my 26 wide "factory" radiator in my wingcar, cost was about $400 to have made...


Mike

[b5blue]

Others have sworn these were the cat's meow: http://www.speedcooling.com/26-Big-Block-Mopar-Radiator.html

[lloyd3]

Spoke with the radiator shop yesterday. They confirmed that the original unit was flowing as designed. They also want $450 to re-core the factory radiator. I told my son not to do it, that the problem had to be something else. He then pulled the head off of the 225 (a remarkably simple process by today's standards) and checked for problems. What we found was a fairly unremarkable situation (no leaks, no obvious mechanical issues, and no scored cylinders) except.... for a clearly obstructed passage in the head, caused by what appears to be an incorrect head gasket. The engine has clearly been worked on at sometime in it's past by a non-professional (imagine that one!) and it now appears that they used the wrong replacement head gasket. We'll send the head off for a service (a closer inspection, a valve grind and some new retainers) and then find the correct head gasket. Sure hope this corrects our heating issue.

[XH29N0G]

Your son has got to love all of this really special look at the engine.  I am impressed and hope this solves the heating problem.

[b5blue]

 

[lloyd3]

This car is providing all sorts of lessons for my 16-year old.  Life lessons....like how much is too-much, what is practical, when to try it yourself and when to hire an expert. What tools do you need to own, what is safe and what is too-risky.  Also...it's a darn good thing Dad's old Honda Civic is ready to be used to go to work and go chase parts.

[lloyd3]

The adventure continues here. Spent the afternoon touring around a salvage yard east of Colorado Springs.  Little or no muscle stuff but lots of early Mopars (lots of fins!) The usual crash & bash issues (& some rust, but not as bad as expected) but still lots to work with.  I had suspected that many (if not most) of the more rural-wrecking yards are not in the digital age and I was proved right today. As you move out onto the plains where land is still dirt cheap, the yards still have lots of room and accordingly, lots of the older stuff.  Oddball stuff too, like Fraziers and Nash and Studebaker and even Hudson stuff. Quite the trek through time today.



a Hudson pick-up....

[lloyd3]

A possible reason for the heating issues on this 1st year 225. Notice the two missing holes in the old (and new) head gaskets?



To the lower left of number 3 cylinder is an obstructed water passage on the old head gasket, there is another on the lower right of number one. Both the old and the new replacement gasket have omitted this opening. We plan on drilling the new gasket to see if it helps the heating issues we've experienced with this engine.



Head work has gotten expensive. $600 to have this one one redone. Last time I was down this road was on a 1970 Super Bee. That head job was something like $350 for both 383 heads.

[lloyd3]

Going back together. My son is now learning about all the incidental costs of doing something like this and just how far his somewhat meager paycheck actually goes (after taxes). Almost everything is working out to be exactly twice as much as I remember it costing.  From gaskets to drill bits to LocTite. He had bought a torque wrench ($90) and was planning on returning it when he was done using it. As he explained it, all his "peers" at work do it. Time for both mom and dad to step in and explain why that wouldn't be happening here.  Ahhh.....life's lessons. Better to lean them now than be pulling statues down at some time in the near future.



Another lesson he might have to learn is about pushrods on old engines.  He didn't listen to me and keep track of them.

[lloyd3]

Wouldn't start, so we pulled the valve cover.  We had bent a push-rod somehow, and another had fallen out of the rocker. While turning it over to see what else might be awry, it then started, even with those two critical items missing (!). Straightened the bent one with a rubber mallet and a block of wood and reinstalled both. Let it run for a while w/o the valve cover to check everything out.  Thank God these 225s are so damn tough!  He's got an exhaust leak and even a lower rad hose leaking (assembling in a hurry and in the dark isn't recommended). Painful lessons but... good ones if they stick.

[Kern Dog]

Thank you for posting all the updates. I enjoy following your progress.   

[lloyd3]

Thanks Kern Dog. After all that it's still overheating. I'm about out of ideas.

[lloyd3]

The continuing saga....my son and I got up early Sunday and he drove the car (with me following in the pickup) 55 miles to my buddy's shop (the one with the lift).  It made it but was running poorly upon arrival. The generator was making a serious racket and it was clearly warm but...it didn't puke. The temperature gauge was hovering at 250 too so it's probably not reading accurately.  Pulled the generator and confirmed a bad bushing in the back of the unit. We also pulled a drain plug on the passenger side bottom of the engine.  Zero fluid escaped (!) until we broke through the film that had built up over the opening. My buddy then inserted a video camera probe into the opening and examined the water jacket in that area.  No obvious obstructions, which was darn good news.  My buddy also noted that the heat riser was stuck on "warm" which might also be an issue (?).

Latest discovery: In my research since delivering the car, I have also discovered to my dismay that this year of Dart has solid lifters. When we replaced the rockers on the head, I wasn't nearly as attentive to the lash as I would have otherwise been as I had presumed it to be a hydraulic lifter car. I'll pull the plugs tomorrow and scope the head from the inside. I do hope I haven't done something irreparable to anything by my sheer ignorance.  This car has far-exceeded my comfort level from the start (and on a number of levels, which is why I initially counseled against it's purchase) and we've clearly pushed beyond my mere-modicum of knowledge at this point. I'm hoping my electrical engineer (& semi-pro mechanic) friend can compensate for my now obvious shortcomings.  This car has seriously humbled me.

[b5blue]

  Sometimes the journey is more interesting than the destination. I sunk 3K into an XJ Cherokee I bought from a friend. Finally decided to fix the A/C and the day 500.00 in new parts showed up the engine decided to pickup a mid range miss fire. (My son decided he didn't want stick shift so I just gave up on it.)
  You have uncovered an important aspect and may need to replace a few pushrods.