Realistic 1/4 mile time

[nickstev440]

I'm pretty close to being finished with my car, and am trying to get the general gist of what I should be running (so I can see if my driving is the problem when I do run it. Its a 70 charger, full interior, should way around 150 lbs more than stock because of my sound system and deadening. So 4000-4100 with me in it?
Engine:
512 stroked 440
Trickflow 240 heads
Holley street dominator intake
Hyd or solid roller cam should be around 240-250 @.050, 110 lobe sep.
Windage tray, girdle etc. etc.
Engine shop says (based on a similar build with sidewinder heads) it should be making around 610 hp 630 tq
T56 magnum 6 speed (essentially 4 speed with double overdrive)
With caltracs, calvert springs, and 295/50r15 Mickey ET Streets
What do yall think would be a good realistic range for my 1/4 ET?

[Ghoste]

Your first time out?  High 13's but it will improve with practice. 

[BSB67]

Your first time out?  High 13's but it will improve with practice.  

This is correct.

But there is a lot of information on a time slip, and with that you can generally identify if it is driver, car/suspension, or power.

Car suspension and driver technique for a beginner can be all over the map, and can result in what appears to be a very poor et.  However, engine power is directly tied to trap speed - mph.  So no matter how poor your driving and the car suspension, the mph (combined with car weight ) will give a good indication of what's going on under the hood.

The atmospheric conditions will play a role in power produced as well.  A car racing in New Jersey in October (200 ft @ 30°F) will be way faster and quicker than the same car racing in Denver (5000 ft) when it's 90°F.

A 600 hp motor in 4100 lb car should trap around 121 - 122 mph in decent air.  If it traps at 117 mph out of the gate, I would be happy.  With that suspension and being a beginner you should still be able to get a 1.9 sixty ft time.  That with a 117 mph, 11.90s.  

Worst case - 2.3 sixty ft, 117 mph = 12.50
Best case - 1.75 sixty ft, 121 mph = 11.30

A 10.9 is not out of the question, I think Charlie is in the high 10s, or will be soon.  That would take a lot of sorting out.

[cdr]

Radials do not work very well with a stick shift trans, get the Bias tires.Having a Standard trans is going to be very disappointing at the drag strip, it takes lots of practice & some skill to make a good clean pass in a 600hp + car, dont get discouraged when your 1st learning how to launch the car, practice,practice practice.
the main thing is

HAVE FUN

[cdr]

Your first time out?  High 13's but it will improve with practice.  

This is correct.

But there is a lot of information on a time slip, and with that you can generally identify if it is driver, car/suspension, or power.

Car suspension and driver technique for a beginner can be all over the map, and can result in what appears to be a very poor et.  However, engine power is directly tied to trap speed - mph.  So no matter how poor your driving and the car suspension, the mph (combined with car weight ) will give a good indication of what's going on under the hood.

The atmospheric conditions will play a role in power produced as well.  A car racing in New Jersey in October (200 ft @ 30°F) will be way faster and quicker than the same car racing in Denver (5000 ft) when it's 90°F.

A 600 hp motor in 4100 lb car should trap around 121 - 122 mph in decent air.  If it traps at 117 mph out of the gate, I would be happy.  With that suspension and being a beginner you should still be able to get a 1.9 sixty ft time.  That with a 117 mph, 11.90s.  

Worst case - 2.3 sixty ft, 117 mph = 12.50
Best case - 1.75 sixty ft, 121 mph = 11.30

A 10.9 is not out of the question, I think Charlie is in the high 10s, or will be soon.  That would take a lot of sorting out.

Just a note the Trick Flow head should make more power than the Sidewinder head.

As Russ said it takes a lot of sorting the car out to get the times you would expect at the track, my 1st pass in my Charger was around 12.50 @ 116 in pretty good air, after lots of work & some changes to my combination the car has gone 11.04 @ 123 4100lb 68 Charger street car. with an Auto manual shift valve body a518 overdrive

[nickstev440]

Radials do not work very well with a stick shift trans, get the Bias tires.Having a Standard trans is going to be very disappointing at the drag strip, it takes lots of practice & some skill to make a good clean pass in a 600hp + car, dont get discouraged when your 1st learning how to launch the car, practice,practice practice.
the main thing is

HAVE FUN

The only reason I would want the radial is that I have to drive to the track, about an hour drive each way. From what I've heard the bias version is almost impossible to take on a highway exit without being very very careful. And of course I'm not expecting to run 11.50s my first run, I just was wondering what you guys think the potential of my car would be.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Agreed on other above opinions on mph. Any drag tire on the street will wear out quick. Hour drive on the highway will be brutal on the rubber compound. Charger trunks are huge. My opinion- 2 sets of wheels and tires. 1 for road, 1 for play. Bigger problem will be scattering the t56 behind 650 ft lbs of torque and traction.

[Ghoste]

On the radials versus bias ply tires, the radials are unquestionably a better handling tire but whoever told you that bias plies make a Charger nearly impossible to take on a highway off ramp may have been exaggerating a lot. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

On the radials versus bias ply tires, the radials are unquestionably a better handling tire but whoever told you that bias plies make a Charger nearly impossible to take on a highway off ramp may have been exaggerating a lot. 

Agreed again. Bias tires were the norm on production cars til the 70s, and we also had highways back then too. What you were attempted to be told was bias slicks can be hairy when attempting cornering manuevers. The same goes for radial slicks. Doesnt matter if its radial or bias belted. It comes down to the type of tire. Racing or street. Big difference. The et street drag radials you are looking at running have a stiffer sidewall then a radial or bias slick will have. It is closer in design to a street tire but dont be fooled, it is not. They have a dot number purely for nhra rules. They are not street legal and are clearly marked on the sidewall "not for street use" my state and the surrounding states in my area are cracking down hard on their use on the street.
   Can you use an et street drag radial successfully on the street and win races- yes, done it for years. But dont be fooled into thinking you are good to go with a real street tire. Your biggest problem will be the stickshift on radial tires. Radials dont like thr shock of a stick car. The sidewall cant recover like a bias tire and keep traction. The track prep for a radial tire is different and more expensive then what you wil get on a test and tune day at your local strip. The car will still hook better then on the open road, but you wont be sidestepping the clutch at 6k on those tires. I suspect 3500 and a half slip, half pop of the pedal to walk it out and build up from there. Rear gears will play a big role with this car on the track as well.

[BSB67]

On the radials versus bias ply tires, the radials are unquestionably a better handling tire but whoever told you that bias plies make a Charger nearly impossible to take on a highway off ramp may have been exaggerating a lot. 

Funny what people think.

[c00nhunterjoe]

On the radials versus bias ply tires, the radials are unquestionably a better handling tire but whoever told you that bias plies make a Charger nearly impossible to take on a highway off ramp may have been exaggerating a lot. 

Funny what people think.

Comes down to the tire again... i was experimenting with bias and radial slicks and different pressures and combinations on the 63 max, with the radials on a particular pass, i had to lift at 110 mph as the rear was walking all over the track and i couldnt hold it. Have had the bias to 130 on that car, radials to the same. Radials required 24 psi to be stable, bias 12 on my combination. When the radials dropped below 20, it was shear pucker factor. Car runs bias now.
   The wife's true survivor 72 ss nova had legit bias street tires on all 4 corners. At 30 mph on coastal highway at the ocean city md car cruise, it was white knuckle on the steering wheel. Car runs street radials now. Drives like a dream.

[Ghoste]

Yes, bias slicks are another thing again, especially with low tire pressure and those sidewalls.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Yes, bias slicks are another thing again, especially with low tire pressure and those sidewalls.

Pressures vary a great deal, even on the drag radials. Another example- as i said, the 32x13.5x15 hoosier bias drag slicks on the 63 work best at 12 psi. The exact same tire on the supergas arrow run at 8.5. My friend's 69 roadrunner with a 29.5x9x15 bias slick runs upwards of 20 in his. When he switches to radial slicks for a heads up race, those run 25. When i ran 275/60/15 mickey thompson drag radials on my charger, those worked best at 22 psi. Lots of variables like chassis, weight, tire sidewall and rubber compound, come into play on race tires. 
    On a street tire, similar variables also come into play, just not as drastic since most of the tires are closer in design and rubber. Alignment specs make a world of difference if you are running a bias tire on the street. Fwiw, while i dont frequent the highway in any of my cars, they have been on the highway at times. 3 of the cars run a true bias race only slick and ive never had a stability issue on the street. My larger concern is degradation of the tire from the excessive heat of highway/ at speed driving. They just wont hook anymore if you get them too hot.

[Bronzedodge]

" my state and the surrounding states in my area are cracking down hard on their use on the street.
  .

Oh, that sounds like a good story.  More to it...?   

[c00nhunterjoe]

" my state and the surrounding states in my area are cracking down hard on their use on the street.
  .

Oh, that sounds like a good story.  More to it...?   

Im sure you have being following the disaster known as ocean city cruise week. I havnt attended it in years. I wouldnt even be able to back my car off the trailer without having them take my tags and impound my car. Even my wife's survivor nova is considered illegal in ocean city.

[Bronzedodge]

Following, oh yeah.  I got my 15 minutes of fame on WBOC.  I was there with Hot Rod Lew in his 392 Ford.  I got to drive it last summer, BTW.  

Eastern Shore television, probably seen by..hundreds of people.  I'm the guy BSing about different idle speeds.   BTW -  Faith, the young lady with the camera, is almost 6' tall.  Lovely person.  

From fall 2018.

http://www.wboc.com/clip/14649565/increased-traffic-violations-for-ocean-city-hot-rods

Sorry to hijack the thread folks.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I dont follow it anymore since we were threatened with impoundment because my wife's nova has crager wheels on it.....

[Ghoste]

Where is this place?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Where is this place?

Ocean city maryland. It is the extreme to the rule, but it is spreading.  Just youtube "cruisn oc" or ocean city cruise week.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Here you go- if you engine is "loud" to the officer at idle, you now go straight to jail.

https://mdcoastdispatch.com/2020/02/06/enhanced-special-event-bill-includes-exhibition-driving/?fbclid=IwAR3kV67RJiSubcWH6lbcWSM2_tpXhuNRr1UHvSYPFf6XfpWn_Q3aFeA3yHM

[Ghoste]

Exhibition driving huh?  We have a "stunt" driving law in Ontario that also gives police a very open book to make up the law on the spot as needed.

[myk]

In California, specifically San Diego, they'll impound your car, just for being a spectator at a street race or "exhibition driving." 

[c00nhunterjoe]

Back on topic- assuming he actually has 600+ hp to work with. As long as he doesnt blow the tires off on launch- i suspect 1st pass will be a .380 reaction time, 2.5 60 foot. 12.60 at 119.

[BSB67]

Back on topic- assuming he actually has 600+ hp to work with. As long as he doesnt blow the tires off on launch- i suspect 1st pass will be a .380 reaction time, 2.5 60 foot. 12.60 at 119.

If he's never been to the track before, the first pass could be 13.50 at 119.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Could be, but those are some insane sissy shifts. Lol.

[BSB67]

Could be, but those are some insane sissy shifts. Lol.

No.  It'll be in the launch because almost every first timer does not let up when the tires break loose and smoke'em for the first 600 ft in two gears.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Could be, but those are some insane sissy shifts. Lol.

No.  It'll be in the launch because almost every first timer does not let up when the tires break loose and smoke'em for the first 600 ft in two gears.

I was taking into account that in this case, he will at least have a set of sticky tires on it, but anything is still possible. We need to start taking official poll times and see who gets closest.

[nickstev440]

One year later, and the motor is finally built. It has been done for a couple months, just switching manifold and carb for the Pro Flo 4 (going to weld bungs to the holley intake for hood clearance, whenever its off backorder), and waiting on the dyno. Most of it is the same, but I switched to EFI for drivability, since it's my daily, and I have the cam specs for some more detail. Ill attach the picture of the cam card. Also, I didn't realize before, but when I was saying bias ply, I was referring to slicks on the highway(with radials in front). I sounded kinda dumb there. LOL. But when I go to the track I will most likely be running slicks, but if not it'd be an impromptu trip with a group, so 295 street tires.

I discussed my build with Charlie recently and the overall car seemed relatively similar, but knowing the cam specs and having port injection, does anyone want to update their bet, or is it where you figured itd be.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Nice cam choice.

[ph23vo]

i saw a beat and i mean beat...2.5L turbo charger first time at the track..run 11:20@ 155... yes 155.... he was all over the track too ...with every gear change th front end went the other direction.. they tossed him out immediately

for no chute, or roll ba,r or safety equipment of any kind..