73' Charger Battery Issue...

[BMOTOXSTAR]

So I just did my entire electrical system. Thanks to help from Nacho !

I have put on about 150 miles since all the work .


Battery is a mid level 5 year from Wal Mart. Correct group size.

Not even 3 months old and the battery died on me on the way to a car cruise here in Phoenix Saturday. Was so cooked it would not keep running after a jump. 25 CCA is all it would put out.
I have never had a battery cook in less than 3 months.

Now it has been 115 degrees  all week and it was 99 at night on the way to the cruise. Big Block heat in the Arizona temps or just bad luck?

All my electrical connections are good, bulkhd, ALT meter, etc. I need a new # cable connector, it is good and tight just I do not like those lead style ones at all. Alternator is new,no loose connections.

Replaced the battery and holds 12 volts not running, 12.7 running with everything on ALT gauge read nice.

Now it has been 115 degrees  all week and it was 99 at night on the way to the cruise. Big Block heat in the Arizona temps or just bad luck? IDK, it happened out of the blue, was running great then started running a little hot in traffic, stalled at a light then no start....

[XH29N0G]

I thought these cars could keep running without the battery if the alternator was putting out sufficient power.  May be wrong.  See what others say.

[b5blue]

Check the battery cable end crimps closely. Advance Auto will check battery and system for free.

[6.7Cummins]

You should have mid 13 to to lower 14 volts while running. Your battery is not charging. Check alternator and voltage regulator.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Yeah the voltage regulator and ALT are 3 months old. I did all that when I re-did my wiring.

Maybe a bad ALT off the shelf , I will go and have it tested.

What luck would it be to have the ALT and battery bad off the shelf?

[Nacho-RT74]

but do you have a discharge reading while engine is running ?

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Took here for a ride last night and drove her hard. Many burnouts and donuts.


Did not stall with lights on, volt meter showed 12.8 running, 12.5 after driving and not running.

Was about 100 degrees out and man that engine bay was hot as hell.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

but do you have a discharge reading while engine is running ?

ALT gauge is slight to the left, almost center when running.

[Nacho-RT74]

Mmmm something weird. If your alt is upgraded with a more capacity version, it should be centered while iddling.

Allmost centered when running means more to right ? Or barelly centered coming from left side.

After any kind of consistent discharge reading no matter if small, needle should pass the center to right side when giving RPMs by the time required for the batt to get the juice back. Maybe 2 or 3 seconds as a minimal flick to the right or ( maybe even accomplished ) a consistent small reading to the right for some minutes untill get backs to center. The time and wide of reading changes by the batt needs.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

I did some looking by the alternator. The main wire stud was loose in the ALT !  

I took the wire off and tightened. Checked the bulkhead connectors. They looked great.

Now I get  14.5  on the voltmeter running with everything on....& 13.5 not running.

The ALT gauge finally getrs the best reading I have ever had, as shown in pic. She does not stall out when I take the + cable off. I had AutoZone check the ALT & battery just incase.

Seems like I finally have proper current. Thank you very much Nacho and all you other guys for the help.  

Only concern I have is that when I first turn the key when starting  the ALT gauge goes straight to C pegged for a few seconds then goes to as the pic shows....

[Nacho-RT74]

Sure, because batt was getting discharged, so is pretty much normal to get a high charge rate on initial moments then will get slowly centered. Its the same even with a charged batt and you crank the engine. Will show a charge reading ( not pegged full, maybe half of the way )  to get back what get lost while cranking them will move to center, just that will take maybe 3 to 5 minutes ( or 10 depending on alt capacity ). While more discharged was the batt, longer the charge process and longer and higher will take these readings.

Voltage should be getting lowered too as far batt is charged.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

So, I probably killed the first battery by that stud being loose and the ALT could not get a propper charge to the battery?

And like you said Nacho, make sure to hook up any other accessories like that car amp to the subs to the alternator stud & not the battery right?

[Nacho-RT74]

alt stud or any buss/juntion made between alt and ammeter. Amm studs works for that too after the propper wiring upgrades

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Nacho, so just to make sure. I should run my hideaway headlight toggle and car amp # to that stud on the alternator that is the same location as the one that feeds the wire that goes to bulkhead?

I do see how that ALT gauge now goes to C when I use the hideaway toggle, then back to center when off.

I will do the relay conversion next....just afraid to splice into wires,,,


Nacho, I always wondered what your job is.....are you a electrical engineer genius ?

[Nacho-RT74]

sound and stage tech... so I have some electricity base ( and just a bit of electronics ). Not a genius, trust me.

While hideaways are going up and down there is a load going thorught, the deal is get the correct load reading. Once motor stops by itself, load is gone because motor got their breaker points built into gears inside the motor.

If you are getting C reading while hideaways motor is working ( no matter if up or down ) is because you are sourcing it from batt side of the ammeter. Wired like this and with engine off, you shouldn't have any reading, but with engine running, the alt is feeding that load throught the ammeter and will be read as a charge, but is really sourcing the motor.

The correct way will be, once again, on alt side of the game. With this, and being the alt enough to source everything, you shouldn't have any reading with engine running... if alt miss some power, you could get a light D reading or a small needle flickering to D side. Of course with engine off you'll have the correspondient D reading the motor sucks being sourced just by the batt. That's the correct reading for it because batt will be sourcing, then, discharging while motor is working, up or down.

IN FACT, factory sourced the hideaways relay from RUN circuit ( ign1 ), which is indeed into the alt side of the game

[BMOTOXSTAR]

That is awesome Nacho ! You must have toured with many awesome bands ! The sound makes the band  at a show...


Yeah, so I put the headlights and bass amp to the alternator. Much better except that I think I need a newer bass amp or I should just ditch it. The bass amp is about 20 years old, works great, must draw much power for an old amp. Every time the bass hits the ALT meter moves to the bass since it is drawing power....ditch the amp?Maybe our old cars are just not made for them....  

[Nacho-RT74]

would be great get a tour on a nice band... but no... mostly rental sound equipment and production. I have worked on shows with Metallica, Yes, Ricky Martin, Elton John and more important bands, but just making the specific show in Venezuela as part of the techs team and that's all. But at this moment I'm unemployed

yeah I guess on every bass boom the ammeter will show discharge. Everything depends on the amp load requirements and how fast the alt is able to source it.

Mostly sure old equipments which are not such as efficient than moderns could make that, but there is also some good solutions using capacitors for bass amplifiers power reserve or buffer . They are able to storage power to feed that load hit... is like a batt made for this hits/booms

https://youtu.be/Zz5fAaVeM4M

[BMOTOXSTAR]

That is awesome Nacho to have worked with Metallica, Elton, etc. Yeah man I love concerts so I hope we get them back soon. I have friends in smaller heavy metal bands that love playing in Venezula ! Many Heavy Death Metal Fests there !


Now on to the car amps. I just tried using the amp for my 2 full rage 6x9 speakers and the amp is not even 125 watts RMS. The ALT gauge jumps even when only the 6x9's hit bass beats !

IDK, I love having a nice sounding audio with bass sometimes...

So, If I order a capacitator that will save the alternator and battery cause it stores energy for the AMP?

Maybe my Charger is telling me to just keep a modern head unit and my 6x9's with no amp & just listen to the exhaust !

[BMOTOXSTAR]

 Would the bass hits actually do damage to the ALT gauge ?

[b5blue]

May need this: https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/pages/ChryslerMegaAmp.php   

[Nacho-RT74]

dunno how much the amps actually will suck load to be worried about. I don't think a light amm flickering will be a problem. But sure the use of capacitors will be an improovement

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Thank you Nacho...I am not going to give up & try a cap ! All my tears of car audio & amps can't believe I never used one.

B5blue....thank you for the link on the ALT. I need that also. I have a Oreily's Auto Remman so who knows how many amps I am truly getting.

With car amps going and all accessories on I get 15 amps to the battery while running. Off after sitting I get 14.5...just that ALT gauge jumps with the bass & the lights dim a little!

[Nacho-RT74]

With car amps going and all accessories on I get 15 amps to the battery while running. Off after sitting I get 14.5...just that ALT gauge jumps with the bass & the lights dim a little!

I guess you wanted to mean Volts

[BMOTOXSTAR]

I meant volts....

Waiting on the capacitor to get here next week 

[krops cars]

Sorry I did not read the whole thing. You said battery and Walmart in the same sentence. Never start is not a good battery.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Nacho....

So cap, new subs & amp.

Sounds great when running ,turn lights on & bass amp cuts on & off. Just a little move on the ALT meter.
I get almost 15 volts to battery when running and to the amp cap.

I have the Amp fuse by the alternator since I am running the amps from ALT to AMPs. Should I put the fuse closer to amps in trunk?

Maybe try hooking amp to battery since I have a cap now?

It is 119 in Phoenix if the heat could make a difference?

The bass amp is not even 200 RMS...

[Nacho-RT74]

I have to be honest, I never have worked on auto sound to guide you better on this.

[b5blue]

http://www.bcae1.com/

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Thank you....that site is amazing. I am very into home & car audio.

With that being said and doing all my research it is found that aftermarket amps should be connected to the battery +, not alternator. Connecting to ALT can damage the amps and they will not get the correct current. I forget , AC is from ALT and DC from battery? The amps need the current from the battery.

I re-connected the bass and mid/high range amps back to the battery +. Sounds amazing. Now  the ALT gauge does go towards C at big bass hits. Although the headlights, interior lights, etc do not dim when radio is cranked and the bass hits.

My amp capacitor was defective, do not have one now. I will be purchasing one to see if that helps with ALT gauge movement with bass hits.

Nacho, thank you. As it does turn out AMPs to battery +.

The battery is at 15 volts with all accessories running & amps going.
Battery is at a solid 13.5 not running and is keeping a charge even in my 120 degree Arizona garage.

I think I finally have all my electrical correct and sounds system working properly ! 

[b5blue]

Good luck!! 

[Nacho-RT74]

Well sounds logical the cap should be conected to the batt side, being is just like a small battery buffer.