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Author Topic: Wing cars with 429's? I'm confused.  (Read 786 times)
Seabeckredneck
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« on: November 02, 2020, 12:41:32 PM »

  Gentlemen and ladies,
  I've recently come across a few photos of Daytona's and Superbird's with "429 CI" callouts on the hood. I've tried to do a little research to help me understand but no luck. So I thought I'd come to the experts. I thought they all ran 426 Hemi's except when NASCAR punished the winged warriors in 71.
  #3 Don White is one example.
  Standing by to be schooled (Home schooled of course)
  Chris
   
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odcics2
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2020, 01:35:43 PM »

Rule was 430, so some guys added a few inches.
Still a 426 engine, just a very slight overbore.
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Aero426
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2020, 01:37:03 PM »

Easy answer, the displacement limit for all major series in those days was 430 CI.     A Hemi bored .020 oversize is 429.xxx CI.      I once asked Don White's car owner Ray Nichels about this, and he said, "we put the number on the hood that we had under the hood".   I know it causes confusion, but that is the answer.  

Before the days of racertainment and rolling billboards,  I miss the engine call outs on the hood.  They just looked cool.


* 1377962_10202168803522000_1717304609_n.jpg (123 KB, 752x534 - viewed 440 times.)
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Seabeckredneck
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2020, 02:02:18 PM »

Rule was 430, so some guys added a few inches.
Still a 426 engine, just a very slight overbore.

 Makes sense. Thanks!
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Seabeckredneck
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2020, 02:06:59 PM »

Easy answer, the displacement limit for all major series in those days was 430 CI.     A Hemi bored .020 oversize is 429.xxx CI.      I once asked Don White's car owner Ray Nichels about this, and he said, "we put the number on the hood that we had under the hood".   I know it causes confusion, but that is the answer.  

Before the days of racertainment and rolling billboards,  I miss the engine call outs on the hood.  They just looked cool.

  Thanks for the clarification. And I agree with you regarding the call outs looking cool!
  Whats more cool is you talked to Ray Nichels!?!?!?  You need to talk more about that. I'd be all ears. I wish I knew about Ray Nichels when I lived in Griffith, In.!  A legend just on the other side of town.
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charger500440
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2020, 02:03:55 PM »

Here's an interesting interview with Charlie Glotzbach, he discusses a lot of "good old day" stories...

http://www.legendsofnascar.com/Charlie_Glotzbach.htm
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Seabeckredneck
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2020, 06:11:16 PM »

Here's an interesting interview with Charlie Glotzbach, he discusses a lot of "good old day" stories...

http://www.legendsofnascar.com/Charlie_Glotzbach.htm


  Thanks Charger, That was very interesting.  2thumbs
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Aero426
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2020, 12:35:58 AM »

Easy answer, the displacement limit for all major series in those days was 430 CI.     A Hemi bored .020 oversize is 429.xxx CI.      I once asked Don White's car owner Ray Nichels about this, and he said, "we put the number on the hood that we had under the hood".   I know it causes confusion, but that is the answer.  

Before the days of racertainment and rolling billboards,  I miss the engine call outs on the hood.  They just looked cool.

  Thanks for the clarification. And I agree with you regarding the call outs looking cool!
  Whats more cool is you talked to Ray Nichels!?!?!?  You need to talk more about that. I'd be all ears. I wish I knew about Ray Nichels when I lived in Griffith, In.!  A legend just on the other side of town.

Ray was a cool guy.    We stopped at the shop in Griffith with some wing cars in 2000 on the way over to Detroit.   His secretary called him while he was having lunch up the street.  He came down and visited with us for half an hour.   He maintained an office and shop for his oil additive business in one part of the old race shop and gave us the nickel tour.   


* Nichels 2000.jpg (113.68 KB, 800x1211 - viewed 328 times.)
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Aero426
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2020, 12:41:05 AM »

This was the end of the Nichels race shop where Ray maintained his oil additive business.     The addition was built in 1968.    Chrysler money built this 40,000 sq foot shop in 1965.  As you probably know, the airport he owned with Paul Goldsmith is right up the street.    Made for an EZ in and out when you had to fly to the track or get parts air freighted.     Ray was a smart guy. 


* Nichels Shop 2000.jpg (72.07 KB, 1024x392 - viewed 326 times.)
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Seabeckredneck
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2020, 07:28:37 PM »

This was the end of the Nichels race shop where Ray maintained his oil additive business.     The addition was built in 1968.    Chrysler money built this 40,000 sq foot shop in 1965.  As you probably know, the airport he owned with Paul Goldsmith is right up the street.    Made for an EZ in and out when you had to fly to the track or get parts air freighted.     Ray was a smart guy. 

 That is so cool! I know the airport, but I did not know he owned it.  If I could only go back in time... (who hasn't thought that??)

  I remember in the late 70's driving past an old defunct service station somewhere between Griffith and Cedar Lake. As we drove past I saw a wing sticking up in the windows of the garage doors. I told the guys to stop because I wanted to investigate. While they were to nervous to get out of the car, I went up to the door. I heard someone inside so I knocked and a young guy came to the door. I introduced myself and asked if that was a Superbird in the garage. He said, "Oh the racecar? I don't know."  I asked if I could look at it and he invited me in. I was in shock when I saw a real NASCAR Daytona! I wish my memory served me better, (plus I wish I had a camera). But I was just amazed to see this car right in my neighborhood. The guy was working on his own car in the garage as I drooled on this awesome machine. He didn't know much about the car. He said the guy that owns the garage also owns the Daytona. He continued to say it was for sale and that the Hemi was freshly rebuilt. I asked what the asking price was and he said 10 grand!  $10,000 back then was like 1 million dollars now and as a high school student, there was no way I could come up with that kind of cash. I so wanted that car! While I knew what the answer would be I asked my dad anyway and he looked at me like I was on drugs! Needless to say, I did not get it and don't know what ever happened to it. If only I had a time machine and 10 grand.
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ACUDANUT
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2020, 07:40:13 PM »

 She's real fine with a 429. lol. like 3 more cubes makes a huge difference  popcrn
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Aero426
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2020, 08:35:54 AM »



 That is so cool! I know the airport, but I did not know he owned it.  If I could only go back in time... (who hasn't thought that??)

  I remember in the late 70's driving past an old defunct service station somewhere between Griffith and Cedar Lake. As we drove past I saw a wing sticking up in the windows of the garage doors. I told the guys to stop because I wanted to investigate. While they were to nervous to get out of the car, I went up to the door. I heard someone inside so I knocked and a young guy came to the door. I introduced myself and asked if that was a Superbird in the garage. He said, "Oh the racecar? I don't know."  I asked if I could look at it and he invited me in. I was in shock when I saw a real NASCAR Daytona! I wish my memory served me better, (plus I wish I had a camera). But I was just amazed to see this car right in my neighborhood. The guy was working on his own car in the garage as I drooled on this awesome machine. He didn't know much about the car. He said the guy that owns the garage also owns the Daytona. He continued to say it was for sale and that the Hemi was freshly rebuilt. I asked what the asking price was and he said 10 grand!  $10,000 back then was like 1 million dollars now and as a high school student, there was no way I could come up with that kind of cash. I so wanted that car! While I knew what the answer would be I asked my dad anyway and he looked at me like I was on drugs! Needless to say, I did not get it and don't know what ever happened to it. If only I had a time machine and 10 grand.

Terry Nichels (Ray's son) operated out of a service station building on the outskirts of the Griffith Merrillville area.   I think it was on the corner where Colfax dead ends at old US 30.    It's a transmission shop now.   Terry did some work on the Marcis Daytona retrofit and may have had the car there.         At some point, the Marcis car got worked on the big shop as well.  


* Screenshot 2020-11-05 105312b.jpg (75.9 KB, 1024x488 - viewed 234 times.)
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Seabeckredneck
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2020, 12:00:38 AM »



 That is so cool! I know the airport, but I did not know he owned it.  If I could only go back in time... (who hasn't thought that??)

  I remember in the late 70's driving past an old defunct service station somewhere between Griffith and Cedar Lake. As we drove past I saw a wing sticking up in the windows of the garage doors. I told the guys to stop because I wanted to investigate. While they were to nervous to get out of the car, I went up to the door. I heard someone inside so I knocked and a young guy came to the door. I introduced myself and asked if that was a Superbird in the garage. He said, "Oh the racecar? I don't know."  I asked if I could look at it and he invited me in. I was in shock when I saw a real NASCAR Daytona! I wish my memory served me better, (plus I wish I had a camera). But I was just amazed to see this car right in my neighborhood. The guy was working on his own car in the garage as I drooled on this awesome machine. He didn't know much about the car. He said the guy that owns the garage also owns the Daytona. He continued to say it was for sale and that the Hemi was freshly rebuilt. I asked what the asking price was and he said 10 grand!  $10,000 back then was like 1 million dollars now and as a high school student, there was no way I could come up with that kind of cash. I so wanted that car! While I knew what the answer would be I asked my dad anyway and he looked at me like I was on drugs! Needless to say, I did not get it and don't know what ever happened to it. If only I had a time machine and 10 grand.

Terry Nichels (Ray's son) operated out of a service station building on the outskirts of the Griffith Merrillville area.   I think it was on the corner where Colfax dead ends at old US 30.    It's a transmission shop now.   Terry did some work on the Marcis Daytona retrofit and may have had the car there.         At some point, the Marcis car got worked on the big shop as well.  

  Aero, Do you live in that area? I lived on Indiana ave right next to the tracks. But I joined the Navy and ended up in Bremerton Washington on submarines.
    Interestingly enough, that service station in the photo looks a lot like the one I was talking about. But it was 40 years ago so I maybe wrong. The Daytona was in the right stall and that is why I could see the wing.
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Aero426
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2020, 01:21:17 PM »



 That is so cool! I know the airport, but I did not know he owned it.  If I could only go back in time... (who hasn't thought that??)

  I remember in the late 70's driving past an old defunct service station somewhere between Griffith and Cedar Lake. As we drove past I saw a wing sticking up in the windows of the garage doors. I told the guys to stop because I wanted to investigate. While they were to nervous to get out of the car, I went up to the door. I heard someone inside so I knocked and a young guy came to the door. I introduced myself and asked if that was a Superbird in the garage. He said, "Oh the racecar? I don't know."  I asked if I could look at it and he invited me in. I was in shock when I saw a real NASCAR Daytona! I wish my memory served me better, (plus I wish I had a camera). But I was just amazed to see this car right in my neighborhood. The guy was working on his own car in the garage as I drooled on this awesome machine. He didn't know much about the car. He said the guy that owns the garage also owns the Daytona. He continued to say it was for sale and that the Hemi was freshly rebuilt. I asked what the asking price was and he said 10 grand!  $10,000 back then was like 1 million dollars now and as a high school student, there was no way I could come up with that kind of cash. I so wanted that car! While I knew what the answer would be I asked my dad anyway and he looked at me like I was on drugs! Needless to say, I did not get it and don't know what ever happened to it. If only I had a time machine and 10 grand.

Terry Nichels (Ray's son) operated out of a service station building on the outskirts of the Griffith Merrillville area.   I think it was on the corner where Colfax dead ends at old US 30.    It's a transmission shop now.   Terry did some work on the Marcis Daytona retrofit and may have had the car there.         At some point, the Marcis car got worked on the big shop as well.  

  Aero, Do you live in that area? I lived on Indiana ave right next to the tracks. But I joined the Navy and ended up in Bremerton Washington on submarines.
    Interestingly enough, that service station in the photo looks a lot like the one I was talking about. But it was 40 years ago so I maybe wrong. The Daytona was in the right stall and that is why I could see the wing.

No,  I actually live in Milwaukee.   But like hpims, I am lucky enough to own a Nichels built car and have an appreciation for the place and the racing folks from the Calumet Region.   Being so close to Chicago and Gary, a lot of talented and skilled tradesmen came from that area.


* nichelsmem1.jpg (58.72 KB, 800x350 - viewed 162 times.)
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odcics2
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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2020, 05:01:00 PM »

She's real fine with a 429. lol. like 3 more cubes makes a huge difference  popcrn
Agreed.

  A race Nascar hemi makes about 75 HP per cylinder. 
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Seabeckredneck
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2020, 06:43:38 PM »



 That is so cool! I know the airport, but I did not know he owned it.  If I could only go back in time... (who hasn't thought that??)

  I remember in the late 70's driving past an old defunct service station somewhere between Griffith and Cedar Lake. As we drove past I saw a wing sticking up in the windows of the garage doors. I told the guys to stop because I wanted to investigate. While they were to nervous to get out of the car, I went up to the door. I heard someone inside so I knocked and a young guy came to the door. I introduced myself and asked if that was a Superbird in the garage. He said, "Oh the racecar? I don't know."  I asked if I could look at it and he invited me in. I was in shock when I saw a real NASCAR Daytona! I wish my memory served me better, (plus I wish I had a camera). But I was just amazed to see this car right in my neighborhood. The guy was working on his own car in the garage as I drooled on this awesome machine. He didn't know much about the car. He said the guy that owns the garage also owns the Daytona. He continued to say it was for sale and that the Hemi was freshly rebuilt. I asked what the asking price was and he said 10 grand!  $10,000 back then was like 1 million dollars now and as a high school student, there was no way I could come up with that kind of cash. I so wanted that car! While I knew what the answer would be I asked my dad anyway and he looked at me like I was on drugs! Needless to say, I did not get it and don't know what ever happened to it. If only I had a time machine and 10 grand.

Terry Nichels (Ray's son) operated out of a service station building on the outskirts of the Griffith Merrillville area.   I think it was on the corner where Colfax dead ends at old US 30.    It's a transmission shop now.   Terry did some work on the Marcis Daytona retrofit and may have had the car there.         At some point, the Marcis car got worked on the big shop as well.  

  Aero, Do you live in that area? I lived on Indiana ave right next to the tracks. But I joined the Navy and ended up in Bremerton Washington on submarines.
    Interestingly enough, that service station in the photo looks a lot like the one I was talking about. But it was 40 years ago so I maybe wrong. The Daytona was in the right stall and that is why I could see the wing.

No,  I actually live in Milwaukee.   But like hpims, I am lucky enough to own a Nichels built car and have an appreciation for the place and the racing folks from the Calumet Region.   Being so close to Chicago and Gary, a lot of talented and skilled tradesmen came from that area.
 
  Very nice! Thanks for all the info and stories. I'd love to hear about your car and see some photos sometime.
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« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2020, 01:44:20 PM »


Before the days of racertainment and rolling billboards,  I miss the engine call outs on the hood.  They just looked cool.


I liked that look too, although I didn't put down the exact cubic inches that are under the hood now.


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