drums don't fit all the way after rebuild - shave shoes?

[DAmatt]

After having fixed my front wheel bearings, I moved over to my rear 10" drums with a rebuild kit from drdiff.

I can't figure out how to place the pin on the rear shoe (anyone care to educate me?), so I used the shoes included with the kit.

After everything was put together, I could barely get the drum over the shoes. On the right rear wheel, I can't turn it at all.

What I did notice is that the semicircular cut on the top of the brake shoes, where they connect to the round cylinder that holds the springs & ebrake adjuster cable, is smaller than the radius of the cylinder, so it sticks out more tham the older shoes.

I attatched a picture, one can see the gap created by the smaller radius of the cut on the shoes, and the bigger diameter of the cilindrical structure.

The old shoes have a larger radius, and fit right. So... 1. Can I grind the cut so that the shoes fit closer? or 2. should I replace the new shoes with the old? In that case, how do I attach the pin that holds the spring on the automatic brake adjuster?

Or am I wrong, and there is another reason the drums don't properly fit over the shoes?

Thanks in advance

[cdr]

wrong shoes or the backing plate pin, you could grind the shoe half moon some, or talk to Dr Diff

[RallyeMike]

Consider that if you grind them and they still don't fit, they probably won't take them back, so be sure that is the issue before hacking away...

[DAmatt]

Are there different kinds of 10" drum shoes?

If it's safe to grind, I can do that, because no way sending the shoes from Europe to the US would make any kind of economical sense. Cass is on vacation till tomorrow, hopefully I can solve this riddle today, so I needn't bother him when he returns.

If they still don't fit, does anybody know how to press the pins into the shoes (old ones, that don't have them)?

[DAmatt]

So I ground the top of the shoes till they fit. Put springs, levers, everything into place, and started the car. Is it normal when fitting new shoes for the brakes to drag? I went for a short drive, after 2 miles there was smoke coming from the right rear. Also, after putting it in D or R, the car would not move at idle. Now it's ok-ish, but I still get the burnt clutch smell coming from the rear.

Is this a normal bedding-in process, or is there something afoul?

[70 sublime]

After you got your wheels all back together and the car was still off the ground could you roll the tires by hand or were they stuck ?

[b5blue]

NO none of this is "normal". I've run-repaired-rebuilt 10 inch rear drums for 26 years and never had issues like this. Reorder the correct shoes.

[Kern Dog]

NO none of this is "normal". I've run-repaired-rebuilt 10 inch rear drums for 26 years and never had issues like this. Reorder the correct shoes.

The next set could be misshapen like these are.
I suggest to take a file and shape the inside radius of the shoe seat until they match the mounting pin/stud. Shoes don't actually move outward much before they make contact. The gap seen between the shoe seat and the pin shows you that it doesn't take much movement to energize the brakes. By reshaping the inner radius, you are able to do the work now and get the car mobile right away.
It is unfortunate but many reproduction and repair parts are of poor quality. When these parts were still used in new cars, the demand for high quality was very high because of new car warranty requirements. Now that these parts are only used for classic cars, the manufacturing standards seems to have dropped off a LOT.
You can fix this. Get to it.

[A383Wing]

Are there different kinds of 10" drum shoes?

there are 10" x 2-1/2" shoes for "B" body cars....there are also 10" shoes for "A" body cars as well, but I ferget the width. Measure your shoes just to be sure

I'm sorry to ask this, but are you sure you screwed the self adjuster all the way in when putting all the hardware back on?

Bryan

[b5blue]

NO none of this is "normal". I've run-repaired-rebuilt 10 inch rear drums for 26 years and never had issues like this. Reorder the correct shoes.

The next set could be misshapen like these are.
I suggest to take a file and shape the inside radius of the shoe seat until they match the mounting pin/stud. Shoes don't actually move outward much before they make contact. The gap seen between the shoe seat and the pin shows you that it doesn't take much movement to energize the brakes. By reshaping the inner radius, you are able to do the work now and get the car mobile right away.
It is unfortunate but many reproduction and repair parts are of poor quality. When these parts were still used in new cars, the demand for high quality was very high because of new car warranty requirements. Now that these parts are only used for classic cars, the manufacturing standards seems to have dropped off a LOT.
You can fix this. Get to it.

This is bull! Brakes are THE most important system on the car!

[Kern Dog]

I never stated otherwise.
You quoted me, go and read what I wrote. The shoes can be filed to fit where the metal frame is poorly shaped at the mounting pin.

There are a lot of cheap and poorly made parts of all kinds.
When the new cars came with hydraulic valve lifters, there was a huge incentive for the manufacturers to produce reliable and durable lifters. Literally millions of dollars at stake if a company churned out shitty parts.
The quality of flat tappet lifters dropped off significantly after the OEM demand ended. The same has happened with other parts.

[b5blue]

Get the correct shoes.

[Kern Dog]

Get the correct shoes.

Yes, I agree that getting the correct shoes would be the right way to go. Sometimes you do have to modify some parts to get them to fit and function right.

[HPP]

post a picture of the adjusting wheel at the bottom of the shoes.

[DAmatt]

Wow, talking about support!

Thanks guys, I went ahead and bought a die grinder, and enlarged the half moons toll they were flush on the pin. I have made sure the adjuster on each wheel was pushed all the way in. Getting parts is much more difficult for me, being in Europe, so I am trying every other alternative before that - hence the grinder
After putting it back together, the car wouldn't roll. Took is for a drive, things were heating up bad. After a few km, I could push the car on a level surface, but with great effort. After 100km, there still is heat on the hubcap, but I can roll the car almost as easy as before. It seems as, and I hope that, it's just a matter of a "run-in" of the shoes.

I'm taking advantage of this to ask you guys another question without starting a new thread: It seems my passenger UCA ball joint is on its way out, so I'll have to change that. I understand that XRFs are still made in the US, and I also understand migbearings is a reputable source, but is this price right?? It's almost 3 times cheaper than what I see elsewhere:

https://mibearings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=40585

Also, please tell me which socket? 1 7/8 or 1 59/64?

I am a bit scared about disconnecting the UCA, to replace it with one with the ball joint already attached. Are my fears founded? I want to keep it as simple as possible, till I am proficient enough to feel comfortable.

Many thanks

[70 sublime]

You need a special socket to take the upper ball joint apart
If you have a close look at it the corners are round instead of square like a regular nut
It will take a good pull to get it to break free so if you do find a regular socket that kind of fits it might slip before you get it apart   

[b5blue]

Consider these:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/351063607641?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=351063607641&targetid=1263433204454&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9012128&poi=&campaignid=10454522096&mkgroupid=120142078537&rlsatarget=pla-1263433204454&abcId=2146002&merchantid=7849614&gclid=CjwKCAjwkvWKBhB4EiwA-GHjFtyuP4Ea61uYHaGvGmnVD49YW_KHAAJcOukzuX25JD5eW4shzOxIrBoC5RsQAvD_BwE

[jlatessa]

Another thought, do you have he leading/trailing shoes on correctly/

Joe

[DAmatt]

Well I know about the socket, but I don't know which one to get - for the B bodies they say either 1 7/8 or 1 59/64.... which one is it?

As to the force required, I ordered a Milwaukee M18 impact wrench with 1400 lbft of torque, I hope it's enough. Also, am I correct in stating that XRF makes the best ball joints for our cars? Could someone confirm whether the link I posted is a legit offer? Or post me a link to where to order the best ball joints for the UCAs?

I am aware of the option to replace the whole UCA, but I have two worries:
1. how difficult is it to remove the UCA from the chassis, and install the new one? Doesn't seem to be much room for a torque wrench to torque it to specs.
2. what ball joints come with the UCA? The car has 560 miles now, and all suspension parts were new after the restoration. The one inside the arm gave up the ghost in such short time, I want to make sure that what I replace it with will last for a long time. Or is there a UCA with premium bushings & ball joint?

Thanks

[b5blue]

I used the UCA's in the link. Installed 4-5 years ago they fit fine and I've had no issues. The cost is about the same as ball joints and the tool. I use MOOG parts but some complain now they are not so good. (?)
Brake shoes have long and shorter linings (The part that rubs.) so did you install shoes with short lining facing front or rear is what jlatessa was asking.

[DAmatt]

I paid attention so that the smaller shoe was at the front. And anyway, the rear has the (brass?) bolt that holds the adjuster spring, so it was kind of idiot proof on that regard

Is it difficult to unbolt the UCA from the body, and put the new one in? Since I got the impact wrench it would be very easy for me to undo the old ball joint, as soon as I know which socket to get - please let me ask again, how do you know which one you need, between the 1 7/8 & 1 59/64?

Do I need to have the geometry done again after the new UCAs? 

I've also heard about Moog's more recent quality slip, to that's why I enquired about good alternatives - I'd hate to put all that effort, and get another Asian made part that would fail in a couple hundred miles.

[Kern Dog]

I have had much better luck leaving the UCAs bolted in place and using the socket and a long lever/breaker bar to both remove and install the upper ball joints. The weight of the car helps steady the UCAs much better than a vice could. The rattle wrench (Impact) sometimes just makes the UCA bounce around and fly out of your reach!

[Back N Black]

I think using the impact will strip out the threads in the control arm.

[jlatessa]

Yes. the "threads" are really shallow, no impact!!

Joe

[green69rt]

Concerning your brake problem.  If you bought the stuff from Dr. Diff, give him a call and let him know what's going on.  He may already have a solution. At least he will know he has a supplier problem.