DodgeCharger.com Forum
August 07, 2022, 03:34:54 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Please remember: this is the place to discuss Chargers - NOT the place to discuss politics. Political posts will be locked or deleted at the Moderator's discretion.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Login Register Chat  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Increasing Rear tire clearance in a 68-70 Charger  (Read 2159 times)
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« on: February 01, 2022, 09:12:05 PM »

I never looked at the 66-67 B body cars but I guess they might have the same problem.
My red '70 has had tire clearance problems at the rear since I first mounted these wheels and tires. When I ordered them, I looked at a stock wheel and saw how much wider that I could go. I didn't notice that stupid ridge in the outer wheel tub.


* Jigsaw LWT 1X.jpg (28.59 KB, 300x400 - viewed 408 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2022, 09:20:26 PM »

In my red car, I have an 18 x 10 wheel, 4 3/4" BS and a 295-45-18 tire that is listed to be 28.46 tall.
It rubs that bulge in the outer wheel house when hitting bumps if I have a passenger or am alone and driving with a full tank.
In my "Jigsaw" Charger, I modified both sides by cutting along that ridge line as well as making perpendicular cuts in a manner than resembles football stitching, then pushing the flaps in to make it concaved.


* Jigsaw RWT 6 nsn.jpg (20.89 KB, 400x300 - viewed 403 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2022, 09:22:08 PM »

The final product resulted in a big improvement.


* Jigsaw RWT 21 spnu.jpg (24.22 KB, 400x300 - viewed 403 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2022, 09:27:23 PM »

For "Ginger" the red car, I want to make it so the outer tub closer follows the quarter panel outline. This means that I want to make the outer side of the outer tub to go almost vertical instead of an arch like the inner tub does. To get there, I cut round shaped wheel tubs from a Ford truck bed awhile back.
There is one concern about using them. I did the Jigsaw Charger by welding. With rough paint and dents, I didn't care if a weld heated up the quarter panel. On Ginger, I can't risk damaging the paint.


* Side....jpg (43.75 KB, 640x480 - viewed 419 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2022, 09:32:21 PM »

For this car, I'm going to use a panel bonding adhesive.  I have to scrape the undercoating to get a clean surface.
I think that I will cut the ridge line like I did with Jigsaw and make the perpendicular cuts. Then I'll take the Ford tubs and do whatever cutting, shaping and welding that I have to do to make them fit. I'll probably position them using screws, then apply the adhesive.
I hope to get going on this within a couple of weeks.
I'd be interested in hearing from others that have done this whether they did it with the quarter panels off or like mine with everything all together.
Logged
mopar4don
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,207


« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2022, 05:25:13 AM »

 Interested  popcrn popcrn
Logged

Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2022, 08:58:37 PM »

I wanted to post a thread at the 1970 Charger Registry about this project but the site owner banned me for mentioning in a post that I didn't believe in the need for the  vaccine.  eek
It sucks to be "cancelled" for expressing your opinions.
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2022, 11:34:35 PM »

The weather was nice this weekend so I was out in the shop. You can see that the tires are set out pretty wide so they need some room.


* DCT 1.jpg (18.57 KB, 400x300 - viewed 329 times.)

* DCT 2.jpg (18.53 KB, 400x300 - viewed 331 times.)

* DCT 4.jpg (24.95 KB, 400x300 - viewed 348 times.)

* DCT 5.jpg (28.25 KB, 400x300 - viewed 339 times.)

* DCT 6.jpg (23.91 KB, 400x300 - viewed 327 times.)

* DCT 10.jpg (29.71 KB, 400x300 - viewed 339 times.)

* DCT 11.jpg (29.42 KB, 400x300 - viewed 321 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2022, 11:38:40 PM »

In the first of the pictures you can see the shiny spots where the tires were making contact.


I had to scrape the sound deadener to get to clean metal. I've read several threads on undercoating and sound deadener removal and the air powered needle scaler seemed to be a popular tool for the job.


* DCT 12.jpg (24.78 KB, 400x300 - viewed 337 times.)

* DCT 13.jpg (25.29 KB, 400x300 - viewed 343 times.)

* DCT 14.jpg (27.98 KB, 400x300 - viewed 346 times.)

* DCT 17.jpg (29.68 KB, 400x300 - viewed 333 times.)

* DCT 18.jpg (17.55 KB, 400x269 - viewed 336 times.)

* DCT 20.jpg (20.53 KB, 400x300 - viewed 322 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2022, 11:39:30 PM »

Wait...what is that? F8 green??


* DCT 21.jpg (22.38 KB, 400x300 - viewed 312 times.)

* DCT 19.jpg (28.23 KB, 400x300 - viewed 304 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2022, 11:42:31 PM »

I sometimes forget that the car was green originally. This reminds me of going out with a blonde and later in the night, you see that she is actually a brunette !

After scraping off the undercoating/sound deadener, I sanded the painted surfaces with the D/A sander and 40 grit discs.



* DCT 22.jpg (21.74 KB, 400x300 - viewed 324 times.)

* DCT 23.jpg (17.87 KB, 400x300 - viewed 324 times.)

* DCT 24.jpg (29.53 KB, 400x300 - viewed 321 times.)

* DCT 25.jpg (28.12 KB, 400x300 - viewed 328 times.)

* DCT 26.jpg (22.8 KB, 400x300 - viewed 329 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2022, 11:46:29 PM »

In my Jigsaw Charger, I cut along that protruding ridge, made opposing cuts and inverted that ridge. This time, I wanted more clearance than that method allowed. Still, I followed the same procedure and pushed all the flaps to where I wanted them. It turned out that the gaps between the flaps were too big so I just cut all the flaps out to make a hole....


* DCT 28.jpg (22.46 KB, 400x300 - viewed 333 times.)

* DCT 29.jpg (22.47 KB, 400x300 - viewed 337 times.)

* DCT 33.jpg (26.24 KB, 400x300 - viewed 335 times.)

* DCT 34.jpg (31.74 KB, 400x300 - viewed 335 times.)

* DCT 35.jpg (23.47 KB, 400x300 - viewed 341 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2022, 11:49:06 PM »

I took one of the Ford truck wheel tubs I cut from a truck at a self service yard and started trial fitting it. It took several fittings and cuts to get it to fit. The added clearance it will have is amazing.


* DCT 3.jpg (21.19 KB, 400x300 - viewed 355 times.)

* DCT 37.jpg (24.05 KB, 400x300 - viewed 339 times.)

* DCT 38.jpg (25.57 KB, 400x300 - viewed 321 times.)

* DCT 39.jpg (28.05 KB, 400x300 - viewed 331 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2022, 11:53:00 PM »

I used self tapping screws to hold the panel in place, then moved over to the left side. This side is going a LOT faster since I did not bother trying to make the small cuts and bends. I just went ahead and made the hole for the patch.



* DCT 47.jpg (21.01 KB, 300x400 - viewed 335 times.)

* DCT 48.jpg (27.47 KB, 400x300 - viewed 343 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2022, 11:55:29 PM »

At first I decided to use a panel bonding adhesive to attach the patch because I was worried about burning the paint when welding along the wheel opening. With the way that I was able to bend the flanges, the welds will be at least an inch from the quarter panels so I could still go either way.


* DCT 49.jpg (29.64 KB, 400x300 - viewed 330 times.)

* DCT 50.jpg (24.72 KB, 400x300 - viewed 332 times.)
Logged
WHITE AND RED 69
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,088



« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2022, 05:24:12 PM »

Nicely done!  2thumbs

I'm going to do something similar one of these days. Many times I've just wanted to heat it up and hammer it back just to get a little extra clearance but cutting it out and reshaping it is the way to go.
Logged

1969 Dodge Charger R/T
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee 75th edition
1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1972 Plymouth Duster
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2022, 05:55:26 PM »

I know a guy that had a '68 GTX. He used a torch and just heated the tub until it was soft enough to move when he hit it with a hammer. His was a drag car but me? I would never try such butchery on a car that was painted. The heat of the torch will travel from the wheel tub to any metal near it. Body filler, no matter how thin, may not like the heat and who knows for sure what happens after that.
Logged
TTSaleen
Junior Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 123



WWW
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2022, 06:01:06 PM »

Nice job!
Logged

1968 Charger
1998 Twin Turbo Saleen
2003 Mach 1
2008 Pontiac G8
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2022, 11:29:26 PM »

Thank you, guys.

The patch panel had to be "pie-cut" in order to get it to bend to the shape that I needed. When you need a inside curve, the flaps lay over each other. An outside curve results in gaps between the sections, like this:



* DCT 46 gfhfh.jpg (23.89 KB, 400x301 - viewed 297 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2022, 11:31:18 PM »

I pulled the panels off to weld up the gaps. It was much easier than leaving them in place and welding overhead.

I'll weld up the left side and dress all the welds with a grinder....then "glue" them in place.


* DCT 57.jpg (26.83 KB, 300x400 - viewed 291 times.)

* DCT 58.jpg (21.32 KB, 400x300 - viewed 300 times.)
Logged
TTSaleen
Junior Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 123



WWW
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2022, 06:38:51 AM »

Damn impressive work.
You should make some templates and market this.  I'd be the first in line to buy a set!   2thumbs
Logged

1968 Charger
1998 Twin Turbo Saleen
2003 Mach 1
2008 Pontiac G8
mopar4don
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,207


« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2022, 02:51:15 PM »

Your doing a great job Kern. That has to be scary welding in there with that beautiful paint.... Shocked

I know it's a little late for you but these might help the next guy.

I saw US Car Tool has these now

https://store.uscartool.com/66-70-Mopar-B-Body-Growth-Ring-Outer-Wheelhouse-Flare-Kit-Dodge-ONLY_p_253.html



* Growth Ring.jpg (76.96 KB, 1044x731 - viewed 285 times.)
Logged

WHITE AND RED 69
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,088



« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2022, 04:40:31 PM »

Your doing a great job Kern. That has to be scary welding in there with that beautiful paint.... Shocked

I know it's a little late for you but these might help the next guy.

I saw US Car Tool has these now

https://store.uscartool.com/66-70-Mopar-B-Body-Growth-Ring-Outer-Wheelhouse-Flare-Kit-Dodge-ONLY_p_253.html



Dang. I might have to look into this...wonder if a 315 tire will fit with the stock leaf spring locations?
Logged

1969 Dodge Charger R/T
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee 75th edition
1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1972 Plymouth Duster
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2022, 06:05:48 PM »

Thank you Don.
I actually did what the US Cartool patch offers in my "Jigsaw" Charger by inverting the ridge.
The patches I made for this car allow even more room as shown in the picture below. The US Cartool patch does not follow the wheel opening straight up like mine will.
Theirs tapers down from the middle to the wheel opening.
I have a 295-45-18 on a 10 inch wheel. I have about an inch to the leaf springs and inner tub and about 1 1/4" to the wheel opening molding. It would be tight but an 11" wide wheel and a 315 should fit though.




* Growth Ring (2).jpg (69.13 KB, 468x488 - viewed 279 times.)
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2022, 11:27:28 PM »

I decided to weld instead of using the panel bond stuff.
The initial reasoning was my concerns about putting too much heat near the quarter panel. I got around that by doing short bursts and blowing compressed air afterwards. I'm having trouble with the welds though. They look terrible. I have a MIG with a 75/25 Argon-CO2 and am using .030 wire. The wheel tub sheet metal is thinner than the Charger wheel tub. I either get tall welds or I burn through. I've tried numerous wire speeds and can't seem to get consistent welds. I'm lucky this job will be covered in seam sealer and undercoating but crap...I wanted it to look better than this. I'm going to try some thinner wire, something like an .023 or similar.
Logged
cdr
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,187


Katy,Tx


« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2022, 08:11:37 AM »

I decided to weld instead of using the panel bond stuff.
The initial reasoning was my concerns about putting too much heat near the quarter panel. I got around that by doing short bursts and blowing compressed air afterwards. I'm having trouble with the welds though. They look terrible. I have a MIG with a 75/25 Argon-CO2 and am using .030 wire. The wheel tub sheet metal is thinner than the Charger wheel tub. I either get tall welds or I burn through. I've tried numerous wire speeds and can't seem to get consistent welds. I'm lucky this job will be covered in seam sealer and undercoating but crap...I wanted it to look better than this. I'm going to try some thinner wire, something like an .023 or similar.

I agree on welding, that inner well keeps the car tied together!!!
Logged

LINK TO MY STORY http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/11/16/ride-shares-charlie-keel-battles-cancer-ms-to-build-brilliant-1968-dodge-charger/  
                                                                                           
68 Charger 512 cid,9.7to1,Hilborn EFI,Home ported 440 source heads,small hyd roller cam,a518 trans,3.54 gear,11.04@123,4100lbs on street tires full exhaust daily driver
Charger55 by Charlie Keel, on Flickr
timmycharger
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,972



« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2022, 08:17:07 AM »

I decided to weld instead of using the panel bond stuff.
The initial reasoning was my concerns about putting too much heat near the quarter panel. I got around that by doing short bursts and blowing compressed air afterwards. I'm having trouble with the welds though. They look terrible. I have a MIG with a 75/25 Argon-CO2 and am using .030 wire. The wheel tub sheet metal is thinner than the Charger wheel tub. I either get tall welds or I burn through. I've tried numerous wire speeds and can't seem to get consistent welds. I'm lucky this job will be covered in seam sealer and undercoating but crap...I wanted it to look better than this. I'm going to try some thinner wire, something like an .023 or similar.

I had similar issues welding panels on my Charger and settled on .023 wire after trial and error. I am assuming the area you are welding is nice and clean?
Logged

Mike DC (formerly miked)
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,059


« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2022, 03:10:55 PM »

      
--  Another vote for smaller wire size.  Use .023 for body sheetmetal.  The larger MIG wires bring more amps to the weld, but it's less controllable.  If your MIG machine can supply enough amps to get it done with a smaller wire than that is preferable.  


--  Don't run the shielding gas pressure too high.  The stuff is only there to prevent bubbles/pinholes in the welds.  Once the gas pressure is high enough to do that, you won't gain anything by blowing it harder.  It just wastes the gas and takes heat away from the welds.    


--  Letting the metal cool off gradually is better than using compressed air to blow it cool.  Less brittle & warping issues.  Just keep the welds short & spaced apart and take your time on the whole job.
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2022, 10:28:45 PM »


I had similar issues welding panels on my Charger and settled on .023 wire after trial and error. I am assuming the area you are welding is nice and clean?
My local welding supply had .025 so I got that. I've heard of .023. .024 but not .025.
What a difference! The welds are less peaky and I have barely burned though. I'm "spot" welding as usual in the areas close to the wheel opening. By "spot" I mean just a quick buzz that looks like a head of a nail. Along the top and sides I do about 1/2" stitch at a time.
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2022, 10:31:38 PM »

     
--  Another vote for smaller wire size.  Use .023 for body sheetmetal.  The larger MIG wires bring more amps to the weld, but it's less controllable.  If your MIG machine can supply enough amps to get it done with a smaller wire than that is preferable.  


--  Don't run the shielding gas pressure too high.  The stuff is only there to prevent bubbles/pinholes in the welds.  Once the gas pressure is high enough to do that, you won't gain anything by blowing it harder.  It just wastes the gas and takes heat away from the welds.    


--  Letting the metal cool off gradually is better than using compressed air to blow it cool.  Less brittle & warping issues.  Just keep the welds short & spaced apart and take your time on the whole job.


Thanks, Mike.
I did back down the gas pressure from 18 to 13. The welds look much better but still not excellent. I sanded and wire wheeled the patch and existing wheel tub but they are not surgically clean. I sure can tell when I hit a dirty spot. Spatter and crackle instead of a nice sizzle.
Logged
INTMD8
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 547



« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2022, 02:46:26 AM »

Changing wire probably won't help.

IMO, first thing to make this easier is tight panel to panel fitment.  If there is a gap between sheetmetal and you aren't used to working with things like that, it can get messy quickly.

Not sure -how- you're trying to weld it but my unsolicited advice would be, certainly don't go in with the mindset that you're going to hold down the trigger for several seconds as you lay down a length of bead. 

When you're doing something very heat sensitive (so, sheetmetal that might not fit up tight)  just do a series of spot welds. As in, pull trigger and release to bridge gap. As it goes from glowing red to fading, do it again shifted in the direction you want to go but half overlapping the last spot weld, then do that a million times till you get where you need to be.

Last bit of opinion would be, do it in silicon bronze instead of whatever you're using.
Logged

69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 595rwhp 475rwtq
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2022, 11:57:27 PM »

Changing the wire did help some. The welds were flatter and I rarely burned through. The quality is still crap compared to having the work in front of or under me. I still did short bursts to avoid burning.
Weld, grind...weld, grind.
I spread seam sealer over the perimeter and welded seams then today I sprayed the sound deadener/undercoating.
Total cost? Less than $130.
Wheelwell patches cut from a Ford truck in a junkyard: Maybe $40.
Welding wire and tips: $40.
Seam sealer and undercoating: Maybe $50?

The tire clearance improvement is great. I went out for a drive on a bumpy road that always resulted in tire contact. ZERO rubbing today even with 3/4 tank.
*******************************************************************************************************************************
It took me FIVE efforts to post this. I keep getting that stupid  error in regards to posting pictures. The operating system here is terrible.
Logged
69rtse4spd
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,861


« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2022, 08:40:14 PM »

Nice job.  2thumbs.
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2022, 05:12:53 PM »

I have no intentions of making excuses about my welding ability. I would love to learn how to improve.
Logged
Kern Dog
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,122



« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2022, 06:48:54 PM »

I do much better welding with the work below me. Overhead welds that look good is still outside of my ability. My welds on the frame connectors and torque boxes was much better. Thicker metal there though.
I can't blame it on anything but myself. I need to meet up with someone that has the skills so I can learn what I am doing wrong.

I can state that this did greatly improve the clearance. These wheels and tires didn't rub until I lowered the car many years ago. I like the wheels & tires and I like the stance. I could have ran an 8 or 9 inch wheel and never had any rub but the goal for me was to have the tires out to the furthest edge of the body that I could.
Thanks to all that commented, even the critics!   2thumbs

My issue with the pictures is....
The forum software wigs out when you try to post any picture twice UNLESS you rename it. It recognizes a file name from before and won't let you REpost it. You have to change the name to post the picture again.
 THIS is the only forum that has this strange condition.
I have thousands of pictures on this computer and my backup hard drive. In the interest of grouping pictures in clusters where the pictures tell a story, sometimes the name or number of the file is accidently duplicated. The computer doesn't care because the "duplicate" titles are stored in different folders.
Lets say I post a picture of my car titled "Charger 1". Months later I want to post the picture again....to do so, I have to rename it. I have my pictures categorized and numbered in order. Sometimes to comply with the program here, I have numerous REnamed pictures that are now out of order. Sometimes I forget and name a picture with a title that I used some time ago....then this site sends an error message that I already posted that picture when I actually didn't, I posted a different picture with a title that I forgot that I used years ago.
I'm not a computer expert so I get frustrated when I encounter these glitches.
I am thankful that the forum exists.


* Thumbs upp.JPG (202.94 KB, 890x665 - viewed 196 times.)
Logged
rockitier350
Junior Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 75



« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2022, 03:31:56 PM »

Here is a picture of the and rear inner widening wheelhouse. Putting the Uscar outer wheelhouses expanding piece on next.


* 312CF03B-6881-428D-9E1D-383167919A56.jpeg (47.87 KB, 400x267 - viewed 147 times.)
Logged

1968 charger restoration in progress
t56 built by rpm transmission
636 hemi
14-71 stage 2 bds blower
1225hp supercharged
0 gas mileage
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.075 seconds with 17 queries.