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Author Topic: MP 528 cam went flat, good time to make a few changes.....  (Read 3834 times)
Kern Dog
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« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2022, 03:55:51 PM »

I am using "Total Seal" rings. They require filing to fit the bore correctly. Their tech sheet shows a ring gap based on Bore size X .0045. For me, 4.36 X .0045 is .1962 or to be clearer, a .020 feeler gauge.
They show the top and 2nd ring to be the same. My last file fit set suggested a larger gap for the 2nd ring.


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Kern Dog
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« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2022, 10:42:00 PM »

The rings were installed after being filed to the specification. Next up was the confusion about the rod bearings. In short, I ordered regular bearings when I should have ordered narrow bearings. Aftermarket crank and rods here so I need the narrower bearings. Charlie ( CDR) helped me out with this.
The new bearings shown below are too wide and encroach into the chamfered edge of the rod that will sit next to the counterweights.


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Kern Dog
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« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2022, 10:44:39 PM »

I scrounged around the shop and found 13 of the 16 bearing shells that I took out when I tore the engine down. Charlie stated that the bearings should be labeled UPPER and LOWER. My new bearings didn't have those marks but the old ones do.

 The stock and aftermarket rods are the same width at the big end.





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Kern Dog
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« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2022, 10:48:03 PM »

The crank is in. Using Plastigage, it all checked out within spec. Charlie suggested that I check to see if the crank main journal fillets are the same as the rod journals. If so, the same bearing interference could occur. I'll check into that before installing the pistons and rods. The crank does spin easily though.


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Kern Dog
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« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2022, 05:53:43 PM »

Hello....
The special rod bearings came in after waiting a week.  Finally, I was able to install the pistons and rods. I asked the machinist to deck the block to get me between zero deck and .005. It looks like he got me between zero and .002. SCORE.
The Lunati solid cam is in. I had 2 Edelbrock timing sets that each had less than 3000 miles on them. Neither seemed to be as tight as new. They both had slack so I ordered a new one. I ran a Howards timing set with the 528 cam and when I pulled it, it was still tight. I had to wait another week for this timing set. It arrived Friday.
I'm anxious to assemble this whole thing but jeez...stuff keeps getting in the way. These next 3 Saturdays are spoken for with car shows I committed to awhile back.
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Paul G
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« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2022, 06:22:42 PM »

Waiting for parts is a killer. It is what we do nowadays.
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Kern Dog
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« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2022, 10:33:05 PM »

That is true.
The bearings came in and I installed the rods and pistons. Clearances were on the tight end of spec even with a standard crank and standard bearings.
The rest of the engine went together with no issues. I have plenty of piston to valve clearance despite the high lift of the Lunati cam.

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Kern Dog
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« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2022, 11:03:11 PM »

The rest of the build went well. The engine was mated to the trans and all mounted on the K member.
The engine and trans were installed in reverse order of removal.....Using the home made cart and the 2 post lift.
It took a bit of figuring to route and form the hydraulic lines for the hydroboost unit but I did it.
On Sunday, it fired up on the first twist of the key. It runs GREAT but had a leak at the rear main seal. I pulled the pan and the rear seal retainer. I thought I may have installed the seal backwards but it was in correctly. IT looks like the leak was from the side seals on the retainer slipping out of place. I decided to skip the seals and just fill the voids with "The Right Stuff" RTV. Pan gaskets are in transit from Summit racing.
When I had it running, I was getting no assist to the steering so something is amiss in the system. The drive belt is tight, the pump was turning and not slipping, no abnormal noises from the pump but the steering isn't getting much fluid if any.

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WHITE AND RED 69
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« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2022, 04:38:57 PM »

Nice work! Engine looks great all painted up.

Sounds like there is still air in the system. I know when I did mine it took a couple times to bleed the pump and hydroboost out. But once it burped out the air it was back to normal.
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Kern Dog
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« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2022, 05:19:39 PM »

Thank you!
Aside from turning the wheel back and forth, what else can be done to bleed the system?
I was given absolutely no guidance or instructions on this HB unit.


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WHITE AND RED 69
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« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2022, 11:38:15 AM »

Thank you!
Aside from turning the wheel back and forth, what else can be done to bleed the system?
I was given absolutely no guidance or instructions on this HB unit.

I just lifted the front and turned the wheel (I believe the instructions said not to go lock to lock but 3/4 of the way? I'll see if I can find the instructions I used) and pumped the brakes after each rotation to make sure the hydroboost reservoir was filling.
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Kern Dog
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« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2022, 07:29:11 PM »

I put the oil pan back on, filled it with oil and it appears that the rear main seal is holding. SCORE!
Then, the steering assist stopped again. I'm not sure why.
I disconnected the hydroboost lines and tried a standard hose from the pump to the steering box. No assist.
The pump must be bad. Two weeks ago I messed around for hours juggling pumps, pulleys and reservoirs. I had a pump with a 5" pulley...I thought it would be a good thing to swap in the smaller pulley to get a higher volume of fluid. It turned out that the 5" pulley had too much forward offset and it wouldn't line up with the groove on the crank pulley.
I will have to replace the pump and report back.
At least the oil seems to want to stay inside the pan and with the brakes bled, once I replace the pump, I should be able to drive the car for the first time since June 1st.
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b5blue
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« Reply #62 on: November 05, 2022, 11:26:13 AM »

Is that the junkyard pump you were messing with? Is the emergency brake on?  scratchchin
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Kern Dog
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« Reply #63 on: November 05, 2022, 07:16:34 PM »

It wasn't a "junkyard" pump. The reservoir was from a wrecking yard/junkyard. The pump itself was a rebuilt unit from a NAPA store.
The Saginaw pump and the reservoir come apart and can interchange with different year parts and brackets.

Today, I swapped the first pump back in. This is the one I had in the car from 2006 until a few weeks ago. It always worked fine. The only reason that I changed it was to use a smaller pulley for more boost. The original pump used a nut to retain the pulley, the smaller pulley only fits a later pump with a press fit pulley style.
I have steering assist like before but the hydroboost still isn't working. The brakes feel like a power brake car with the engine off. Completely UNsafe to drive. I drove around the back yard a bit to see if it would pump up but it didn't change.
I sent an email to Dr Diff to see if he had a suggestion. He is at the SEMA show in Las Vegas and may not get back to me until Monday or later.
It is strange for the fluid to go from the pump to the HB unit, pass through it to the steering box yet provide zero boost to the brakes.
I am tempted to pull this unit out and reinstall the 15/16" manual master cylinder I had before Dr Diff offered me this hydroboost unit. I have the brake lines I made for it. At least I can move the car now.
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cdr
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« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2022, 11:01:00 AM »

It wasn't a "junkyard" pump. The reservoir was from a wrecking yard/junkyard. The pump itself was a rebuilt unit from a NAPA store.
The Saginaw pump and the reservoir come apart and can interchange with different year parts and brackets.

Today, I swapped the first pump back in. This is the one I had in the car from 2006 until a few weeks ago. It always worked fine. The only reason that I changed it was to use a smaller pulley for more boost. The original pump used a nut to retain the pulley, the smaller pulley only fits a later pump with a press fit pulley style.
I have steering assist like before but the hydroboost still isn't working. The brakes feel like a power brake car with the engine off. Completely UNsafe to drive. I drove around the back yard a bit to see if it would pump up but it didn't change.
I sent an email to Dr Diff to see if he had a suggestion. He is at the SEMA show in Las Vegas and may not get back to me until Monday or later.
It is strange for the fluid to go from the pump to the HB unit, pass through it to the steering box yet provide zero boost to the brakes.
I am tempted to pull this unit out and reinstall the 15/16" manual master cylinder I had before Dr Diff offered me this hydroboost unit. I have the brake lines I made for it. At least I can move the car now.

I dont think it will work the way it is plumbed , needs TWO returns to the pump


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b5blue
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« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2022, 11:08:17 AM »

If the rebuild pump is A1-Cardone brand it's most likely defective. My all new Borgeson PS is very low boost at idle. Have you tried bumping up idle?
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Kern Dog
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« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2022, 01:43:29 PM »

It wasn't a "junkyard" pump. The reservoir was from a wrecking yard/junkyard. The pump itself was a rebuilt unit from a NAPA store.
The Saginaw pump and the reservoir come apart and can interchange with different year parts and brackets.

Today, I swapped the first pump back in. This is the one I had in the car from 2006 until a few weeks ago. It always worked fine. The only reason that I changed it was to use a smaller pulley for more boost. The original pump used a nut to retain the pulley, the smaller pulley only fits a later pump with a press fit pulley style.
I have steering assist like before but the hydroboost still isn't working. The brakes feel like a power brake car with the engine off. Completely UNsafe to drive. I drove around the back yard a bit to see if it would pump up but it didn't change.
I sent an email to Dr Diff to see if he had a suggestion. He is at the SEMA show in Las Vegas and may not get back to me until Monday or later.
It is strange for the fluid to go from the pump to the HB unit, pass through it to the steering box yet provide zero boost to the brakes.
I am tempted to pull this unit out and reinstall the 15/16" manual master cylinder I had before Dr Diff offered me this hydroboost unit. I have the brake lines I made for it. At least I can move the car now.

I dont think it will work the way it is plumbed , needs TWO returns to the pump
I do have two return lines. I had to pull a reservoir from a hydroboost Chevy truck to get a reservoir with 2 return nipples on it.
The plumbing looks really busy because I also have a power steering fluid cooler in place.


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Kern Dog
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« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2022, 01:47:48 PM »

If the rebuild pump is A1-Cardone brand it's most likely defective. My all new Borgeson PS is very low boost at idle. Have you tried bumping up idle?
I have tried revving the engine up and pressing the pedal as well as steering the wheel. The car steers fine at idle just like before the HB installation. It just isn't getting any boost from the HB.
I don't know the brand of this unit. Dr Diff sent it to me with no guidance or instructions on how to set it up. I've been completely on my own. This unit has no external markings to identify it. I just used basic common sense to install it, fabricate lines and now...troubleshooting the problem.
It would be great if I can get this to work. I really want to have impressive brakes.
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b5blue
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« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2022, 09:37:43 PM »

Read this: https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/gm-hydro-boost-brakes-for-newbies-like-me.137837/
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Kern Dog
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« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2022, 10:59:50 PM »

That was helpful, B-5. Thank you.   cheers

I liked this part...

Another item that is worth mentioning is the proper way to bleed power steering and hydroboost. Pretty much 90% of people think just starting the engine and turning the steering wheel back and forth is the proper method to bleed the system. The actual correct way to bleed the system according to steering engineers I work with is to lift the front wheels off the ground, start the engine and turn the steering wheel lock to lock 2 or 3 times then, turn off the engine, exit the vehicle and turn the wheels lock to lock about a dozen times by using the actual tire/wheel. The difference is the motion and pressures inside the box initiated by the movement of the pitman side of the gear box instead of the selector shaft side (steering wheel side). When it was explained to me it made perfect sense but I donít recall all of the details but has something to do with creating high and low pressures inside the box to push the bubbles out. That procedure works great the first time, every time....


I can try this tomorrow. It is easy and free....That is my favorite price.
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b5blue
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« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2022, 06:12:51 AM »

good luck
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Kern Dog
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« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2022, 09:31:40 PM »

Thank you.
I tried the procedure but it made no difference. In fact, the steering assist started to fade too.
I pulled the pump to find the flow control valve had moved forward out of position, compressing the spring inside. This is the second pump to fail, leading me to think that the hydroboost unit is AFU and damaging the pumps.
I tried another pump and while the steering is working again, I'm leaning strongly toward pulling this HB unit out and sending it back to Dr Diff.
I have options. This HB has cost me time and money with no sign that I am getting anywhere with it. I could have been driving the car a month ago if I wasn't messing with all the stuff to make it work.
I have a manual master cylinder, sized 15/16". With that, I'm thinking of altering the pedal ratio by drilling a hole for the pushrod above the stock hole.
If that isn't enough, I'll go back to a vacuum booster even if I need a vacuum pump to make it work.
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Kern Dog
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« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2022, 11:46:09 PM »

The hydroboost unit is out and will go back to Dr Diff if he wants it.
If you have ever changed a master cylinder in these cars, you know the under-dash gymnastics that are required to get to the bolts or nuts. You need to be young, flexible or thin.
I am at least one of those things.
The brake pedal is out. I decided to swap it for a modified pedal with better leverage. I could have modified the manual spec pedal but instead, I cut the foot pad on the A/T pedal that I had modified several years ago.
Back in say...2014, I pulled the brake pedal and drilled a hole above the stock pushrod hole. The math is as follows: Center of the top hinge to the center of the brake pedal pad is 12". Center to center of the hinge to the pushrod hole (stock) is 1.75". This is a pedal ratio of 6.85 to 1. Moving the hole UP to measure 1.5" center to center improves the ratio to 8 to 1. It isn't a gigantic change but it was noticeable. Back then, I had power brakes with reduction linkage so that improvement was lost a little in that. With a manual setup, it is a direct ratio with none of the reduction so in theory, it should result in a greater difference.
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Kern Dog
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« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2022, 09:06:05 PM »

This thread was initially about the engine rebuild but the brakes and steering were worked on while the engine was out so that stuff gets mentioned in this thread as well. I've tried to update this thread but when I have tried to post pictures, the bullshit antique software of the forum kicks it back with that fucking "you've already submitted this image" garbage. What the fuck is the point of that stupid feature? It is one of the single most idiotic and problematic feature of this forum. Why is it a problem to post the same picture twice?
Yeah, I always get the same stupid excuse....just change the name of the file...yeah, well what if I DID change the name and the new name is one that I used here 10 years ago? Yeah...that actually happens. I tried twice and fuck it...
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b5blue
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« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2022, 10:19:42 PM »

Do you know the file "name" can be random junk mixed up like sdfg234ect or @#E$GAppp.  scratchchin
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