200r4 in 69 Charger

Started by hudak69rt, December 02, 2022, 06:40:23 PM

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Hi first post I have a 69 charger ive had nothing but dumb problems with after leaving the resto shop after half a resto was done. (essentially rolling body turned into full driver car minus body paint work) biggest thing i have hated is the inabilty to drive more than 65 mph and not hear secondaries kicking and engine starting to get loud :/ I have 3.73s with 295s. Ive came across extreme automatics talked to nice guy there a few times and got some good answers. Besides driveshaft and linkages/TV cable and I know cross member. Is this doable as like no tunnel cutting? cant find a b body with one anywhere?? Unlocked 3000 stall ok at long distance 2500 levels??? with big cooler, deep pan, and good perfromance rad? Goin behind a 440


There are several options on OD automatic transmissions depending on what route you want to go on the 66-70 B body platform. The strongest setups would be to run a 4L80E or A518 with adapters but they require a good amount of transmission tunnel mods or another strong setup would be to just run a gear vendors OD unit behind the 727 and you might have to do some slight tunnel modification. If you want a transmission that doesn't require major transmission tunnel modifactions the 700r4 or 4L60E but they are very weak in stock form and require a good amount of money in upgrades to make them live behind a 440. The problem with a 2004R is the tailshaft area is wider than the 700R4/4L60e and would still require some modifications to the torsion bar cross brace for it to work. You can get a Silver Sport transmission setup that pretty much a bolt in which is based on the 4L60E transmission but its pretty spendy. If you go the 4L60E/700R4 route try to avoid the adapters that sandwich between the engine and transmission because they will push the trans further back into the transmission tunnel and you will still have to do some modifications to the torsion bar cross brace for it to work and depending on what brand you get the starter mounting sometimes requires modifications to the block and trans that some people don't want to do. The way I would probably go is to get an Ultrabell that will mate the 700R4/4L60e directly to the 440 and will save you from doing alot of modifications on a bunch of different areas.

part # for the bellhousing is 92456-700
part # for the flywheel 6 bolt 93009-c flywheel adapter 80012
part # for the flywheel 8 bolt 93010-c flywheel adapter 80013

Here is a link to the thread with some pictures  



Be a LOT easier to throw a 3.23/1 pumkin in the rear... :yesnod:
1970 'Bird RM23UOA170163
1969 'Bee WM21H9A230241
1969 Dart Swinger LM23P9B190885
1966 Plymouth Satellite HP2 - 9941 original miles
1964 Dodge 440 62422504487

Mike DC

QuoteBe a LOT easier to throw a 3.23/1 pumkin in the rear...


But it would still be low-geared (by modern standards) even then.  A real cruiser would have 3.23 gears and the overdrive.   

Todd Wilson

Is Gear Venders still around?



why was only half a resto done? Leon.

Kern Dog


I'm with going for a 323 and a fairly stock 727. Why spend 1,000's hyper modding when what are you REALLY going to do with the car?  :shruggy:


Quote from: hemi-hampton on December 03, 2022, 11:49:56 AM
why was only half a resto done? Leon.
Because bringing a rolling body that i still had to replace floor and trunk too cost 10s of thousands LOL between engine build, tranny, posi rear, wheels and tires, wiring ect. You remember how much these cars cost to buy or build i was 22 at the time when i got to start it and somewhat drive it. Im not gonna list the problems ive had and still dealing with. Chargerbr549 thank you i will look into. Why no 3.23s cause thats ass lmao what I want  the car to do is come out of a hole like and animal and still be able to cruise at 80 at 2500 and gear vendors aint gonna do that with 3.73s. Ive seen happy people on other sites with A bodies and  a 200r4. I dont mind cutting out part of torsion crossmember and boxing for a 200r4. Extremes tranny for the whole kit is 5 grand essentially. Silversport is 6 grand and only rated for 650 max and for how i beat on it that aint gonna last! Im listing my tci 727 and converter to eat some of the cost!


Here is an adapter option if you want to go with a 2004R transmission, us an Extreme Automatics 2004R front pump adapter that bolts to a Reid bellhousing and order up a
big block mopar Reid bellhousing. Here are the links if you wanted to do the swap.

Adapter ring



Yea the guy explained i buy that piece of reid and they cut and cnc it the 200r4 i just want to know if its the easiest way to go i messaged the guy from the post you sent me on 4L60E for more pics


You're money ahead with a Gear Vendor.  By the time you buy trans, adapters you'll have a weaker transmission and have spent more than the $3100 a Gear Vendor costs.  You're gears will end up being like 2.91 vs 2.49 in 200 R4.

Kern Dog

That is still a wide spread in final drive ratios. That could be 1.5 mpg or better.
A guy from San Jose had a 200-4R built for a 360 in a 68 Barracuda. He seems happy with it. The final drive is .67, right? I think that might be the tallest OD gear in any 4 speed OD transmission.
Gear Vendors is .78. To me, that is a crappy OD ratio.
I had one. Yeah, it knocked down a 4.10 to approximately a 3.20 and it did help but it wasn't that great.
In contrast, I have a Tremec 5 speed in my car with a .64 5th gear. The OD rpms are literally 36% less than a direct drive 4th gear. That is impressive.
Too bad the ZF 8 speed wasn't so huge and complicated.


Exactly my point still a wide spread and I actually have a friend that said I can have his gear vendors from gm tranny I believe the piece I need to fit the 727 is 700 bucks from them but the piece he's giving me still needs a rebuild of gaskets and seals so I'm still gonna have to spend a bit for that and .78 and .67 are very different. Mike mustos 68 charger has gear vendors a 285-40-18 tire and 3.55s 81 mph at 3,000 still a high rev imo on a big block long term ! 3.55 isn't enough gear I feel especially if I mini tub this car and get the 335 or 345s. And that's the plan right now ordering rms 4 link in a few weeks.


Call John Cope,,, CRT he does a a518 [46rh/re] set up knows what he is doing, I have a a518 in my junker, street strip car, street trim in the picture :)
LINK TO MY STORY http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/11/16/ride-shares-charlie-keel-battles-cancer-ms-to-build-brilliant-1968-dodge-charger/  
68 Charger 512 cid,9.7to1,Hilborn EFI,Home ported 440 source heads,small hyd roller cam,COLD A/C ,,a518 trans,Dana 60 ,4.10 gear,10.93 et,4100lbs on street tires full exhaust daily driver
Charger55 by Charlie Keel, on Flickr

Kern Dog

The 518 does have a good overdrive ratio. I believe it is .69 to 1.

Mike DC

I'm surprised that nobody has ever produced a custom ratio (taller OD) for the GV unit.  The thing is basically just a single-speed automatic transmission.  The aftermarket makes custom gearsets for lots of other ones.  

If the GV could be ordered with a 0.68 ratio then it would be a whole lot more popular in the classic car/truck world.  It has the existing 0.78 ratio because of unit's main/intended application, which is larger industrial-chassis trucks like motorhomes.    

You would have to give up the "gear-splitting" feature with the taller OD ratio.  But in real-world usage that's not especially useful anyway.  For classic car/truck applications it mainly just gets used as a bolt-on 4th gear.


Kern Dog

The whole "gear splitting" schmere was a marketing tactic in regards to muscle cars. That feature helps in engines with a low redline and a narrow power band.
Nobody that I ever knew used it for that. The only thing it was good for was an extra gear.
To me, it seems that the engineers at GV just made their product and sat back on the couch and got lazy. YES, they could have spent a few bucks and made it in a taller ratio to broaden their market but they didn't.

Mike DC

The GV engineers never did make it for us.  They make adapters to use an existing auxilitary trans unit in a muscle car. 

But yeah, it seems like the investment would have paid for itself pretty fast if they had tooled up a taller gearset.


Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on December 06, 2022, 07:33:37 PM
The GV engineers never did make it for us.  They make adapters to use an existing auxilitary trans unit in a muscle car. 

But yeah, it seems like the investment would have paid for itself pretty fast if they had tooled up a taller gearset.
Exactly!!! Ill look into the a518 what was the total cost for that swap? 4k?


I'd like to put a 2004r behind my 440 in my 69 R/T. It's gonna be a general Lee plus the numbers drive terrain is long gone. Just to compare a GV vs a 2004r with a .67 OD... a GV with 3.55's will turn the same rpm as a 2004r with 4.10's at the same speed.


i have a 200 R4 in my Rat Rod out of a Monte Carlo  SS   it had to be super over built as they are a weak trans .  
 I have it behind my built 392 hemi  .  If you can pick a different option I  would they are just not a great trans  .  

Mike DC

Quotei have a 200 R4 in my Rat Rod out of a Monte Carlo  SS   it had to be super over built as they are a weak trans .  
 I have it behind my built 392 hemi  .  If you can pick a different option I  would they are just not a great trans  .  

Powerglides are not that strong from the factory either.  But they are popular in 2000-hp drag cars today because of what can be done with them.  

It depends what you want from the trans.  A bigger one (727, Turbo 400, etc) is much stronger for less money.  But it's also harder to fit in the chassis, it's heavier, and it soaks up more horsepower.  Pros & cons.  


Extremes stage 3 is rated at 1000hp!! my target engine power is 550-575 but with mini tubs im currently debating a built and cut  8 3/4 or Strange 60 prices arent far off this trans and rear will probably be in it when Im in my 70s 50 years from now lmao !!


For what its worth, I installed a gear vendors unit behind my 727 in my 68 Charger with 3.23 gears. I went this route for a couple different reasons. One because I had already put a bunch of money into the 727 and knew I already had a great transmission, two because this is mostly a cruiser car and I did not want to swap it to a 5 or 6 speed manual, and three because the gear vendors option seemed to be the easiest, quickest and cheapest way to obtain and overdrive ratio in my car. Yes, the .78 ratio could be a little higher to knock RPMs down a little more, but it is still significantly better now than it was before. I can now run 85 MPH with modern highway traffic without rev-ing the piss out of the 440. With the gear vendors I picked up around 15-20 mph at the same RPM. All in all I am happy with the gear vendors and am glad I went that route, it was the right route for me and my application. I also picked up a 33 percent increase in fuel economy, from 6 mpg to 8  :lol: (I have dual 750 double pumpers on top of my 440) Also, I enjoy the gear splitting, with the 3.23 gears the overdrive kicks on by its self right at the very top of 1st gear around 47 mph, and goes into 1st overdrive and the car takes of like a bat out of hell, its a hell of a lot of fun. The only thing I am still toying with is drive line angles to try and get rid of a surging drive line vibration at highway speeds, which you are going to have to do with any transmission swap.