Scored a HEMI from a Sox & Martin built Duster Update 21/1-07 See page 2

[Mefirst]

Ron

The engine was rebuilt a short time before the guy I bought it from bought it.. Its bored .030. But just to take it safe, Im gonna open it up and check out the internals and put in new bearings, reason is it has been standing unused for so many years. I will use the motorplate..

/Tom

[greenpigs]

Glad to hear you got the Hemi First, but could you remove the pic of yourself as I nearly vomited.

[firefighter3931]

but could you remove the pic of yourself as I nearly vomited.[/color][/b]

GROW UP ! 

[greenpigs]

but could you remove the pic of yourself as I nearly vomited.[/color][/b]

GROW UP ! 

That was for the little running joke me and First have, sorry you didn't know the whole story and made an uniformed post.

[Mefirst]

but could you remove the pic of yourself as I nearly vomited.[/color][/b]

GROW UP ! 

That was for the little running joke me and First have, sorry you didn't know the whole story and made an uniformed post.

[Silver R/T]

congrats, looking good

[Brock Samson]

i thought that was pretty funny myself...
good goin Tom. post more pls...

[Mefirst]

Ill get back to the Hemi in January 2007.. I was working these last two weekends so I had no energy to go to the garage and this incoming weekend I'm leaving to go home to Finland to spend Christmas with my family and friends..

The first project when I start again is to pull the heater from the car, it doesn't work anyways, so.. Then I also hope to sell the left over parts from the diseased 440.. I'm gonna open up the Hemi and check the bearings and well the overall condition of the engine. Every internal part that looks even a little suspicious will be changed out for new fresh parts..

Well then I have some major decisions to make about the engine..

Right now it has a hydraulic cam and a single plane Hemi intake with a single carb. My plan is/was to change out the hyd. cam and put in the roller. Then I have a highrise aluminium intake that a guy is welding together for me + adding some other race parts... But lately Ive been kinda rethinking the whole engine deal. We don't have a race track here in Stockholm any more, so to put together a Race engine seems to be kinda dumb right now..

So I'm torn about what to do.. Leave the "race" parts on the shelf and wait and leave the Hemi with the hyd. cam and stock intake or should I still go for the Hardcore version The engine should give out +600Hp as it is, the Race version would be some +700Hp but would not be cruise or like user friendly.. The decision would be simple if we still had a race track, but now that we don't, well... Of course there is always the alternative to race on the street compeeting in the not so legal Birka Cup..

This dilemma about what do to with the engine just sucks right now...

/Tom

[Moparornocar13]

YOU think that YOU'RE happy... think how that hemi's gonna feel once its sitting between those CHARGER fenders for the first time... 

[firefighter3931]

That was for the little running joke me and First have, sorry you didn't know the whole story and made an uniformed post.

Just out of curiosity, what's a uniformed  post ?  


Ron

[firefighter3931]

Tom, throw a blower on that Hemi ! 


Ron

[Mefirst]

Tom, throw a blower on that Hemi ! 

Ron

Ron

Well the thought has crossed my mind to add a blower. Problem is I would have to change out internal parts to get it to work or use a head gasket about a half inch thick The engine has a comp of close to 13.0:1 so that would be an issue running a blower on it without having access to Jet Fuel..

The compression is already a problem, the former owner drove the car on 99oct and had issues with detonation, so I have to use a thicker head gasket to get the comp down to some 12.0:1 with that comp it should run well on Shell V-Power 99oct unleaded.. I also thought about converting it to run on E85. The conversion would not be that difficult, but Id have to run the engine in a Dyno to get it tuned properly. With the 440 disaster I'm not that excited about running the Hemi in a dyno...

Ron or Neil***

-What do you think about using something like this Crane hydraulic roller camshaft # 669151 It would shorely be more user friendly than the Crane roller cam I have # 669091

/Tom

[greenpigs]

That was for the little running joke me and First have, sorry you didn't know the whole story and made an uniformed post.

Just out of curiosity, what's a uniformed  post ?  


Ron

In the chat room First & I sling insults at each other on a regular basis, but since you rarely visit the chatroom you wouldn't know this. Then you may think I was just being a jerk when in fact I was being myself. 

[firefighter3931]

Tom, throw a blower on that Hemi ! 

Ron

Ron

Well the thought has crossed my mind to add a blower. Problem is I would have to change out internal parts to get it to work or use a head gasket about a half inch thick The engine has a comp of close to 13.0:1 so that would be an issue running a blower on it without having access to Jet Fuel..

The compression is already a problem, the former owner drove the car on 99oct and had issues with detonation, so I have to use a thicker head gasket to get the comp down to some 12.0:1 with that comp it should run well on Shell V-Power 99oct unleaded.. I also thought about converting it to run on E85. The conversion would not be that difficult, but Id have to run the engine in a Dyno to get it tuned properly. With the 440 disaster I'm not that excited about running the Hemi in a dyno...

Ron or Neil***

-What do you think about using something like this Crane hydraulic roller camshaft # 669151 It would shorely be more user friendly than the Crane roller cam I have # 669091

/Tom

Tom, don't mess around with thick head gaskets and such....that's just a bandaid fix. Put some new pistons in that badboy and throw the blower on it. Pump gas and 750 streetable horsepower. The hemi was made to be blown.....take advantage of that hemispherical chamber and take no prisoners ! 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

[
In the chat room First & I sling insults at each other on a regular basis, but since you rarely visit the chatroom you wouldn't know this. Then you may think I was just being a jerk when in fact I was being myself. 

Ya i figured as much GP.....I didn't know that on my initial post. I'm sure if you were reading that response and dind't know the history between the 2 posters, you's probably have the same reaction. 

No harm, no foul....it's all good. 



Ron

[Mefirst]

Tom, don't mess around with thick head gaskets and such....that's just a bandaid fix. Put some new pistons in that badboy and throw the blower on it. Pump gas and 750 streetable horsepower. The hemi was made to be blown.....take advantage of that hemispherical chamber and take no prisoners ! 

Ron

Yeah. I know the Hemi is perfect for a blower setup. Problem is though that right now I don´t have any where near the cash to change out the internals or buy a blower. If I was to change out the internals in the future I´d probably go with a 572 stroker kit and a roots blower..

I'm not gonna drop the compression much cause compression also equals power, but 13 in compression is a bit to much for a street engine if you want to drive on pump fuel.. Then again if I was to convert it to run on E85 the 13 comp would not be a problem. I am actually more and more considering to go with that option, but I'm not shore I would survive watching the Hemi strapped to a Dyno. To run it in a Dyno would be the only way to dial in the carb setup precisely with E85

By the way, would you have an other newer and better cam option instead of the old roller grind # 669091 I lernt that the new modern roller cam grinds don´t kill off the valve springs as fast..

/Tom

[Mefirst]

Another thing..

What do you guys think about running a vacuum pump system on the engine? Ive been checking this pump kit out http://www.gzmotorsports.com/street-pump-kits.html

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Another thing..

What do you guys think about running a vacuum pump system on the engine? Ive been checking this pump kit out http://www.gzmotorsports.com/street-pump-kits.html

/Tom

Tom, the only pump you need sits between the carb and intake manifold 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

By the way, would you have an other newer and better cam option instead of the old roller grind # 669091 I lernt that the new modern roller cam grinds don´t kill off the valve springs as fast..

/Tom

Tom, if you're planning on a street type build, there are a lot of good solid roller profiles that won't beat the valvetrain to death. 

These grinds don't require the big spring pressures and close the valves more gently. Comp has a number of street friendly lobes in their master library and there are other companies you can deal with as well. Does this Hemi have a roller valvetrain ? If so, aluminum or steel rockers ?


Ron

[Mefirst]

Ron

Well the vacuume pump would not hurt and there are benefits to run one, but then again Im begining to think it would be an overkill to use it on my Hemi. About the blower, yeah it would be a cool addition and I will bolt one on in the future..

About the cam. -Yeah, the roller cam does kill the valvetrain in the long run and its not userfriendly either. I have to lift off the valve covers cause I have no idea if the rockers are aluminium or steel. The rockers are Mopars own assembly, my guess is that they are made of steel. It has now hyd. lifters, push rods and springs (these springs are probably dead cause the engine has been standing unused for so long). I have got the roller lifters, pushrods and springs ready (came with the engine).

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Tom, i agree the vac pump might be a bit of overkill for the street....but they do work well in high rpm race applications. 


Snap a few pics when you pull the VC's so we can see what's inside there for valvetrain components.  The supplied parts will put you well on your way to a roller cam installation.  Hopefully the valvesprings are compatible with whatever profile you decide on. 


Ron

[Mefirst]

Update 13/1-2007

After spending about a month away from the garage and my Charger I again got my act together and spent some time in the garage. I unbolted and took out the Heater/AC box "thingy" al together, reason is that it didint even work, only took up space under the dash... I thought this operation would be a much bigger headache than it actually was. It was actually more or less unbolt and pull it out... Then again a warning, there is still water inside the heater, so if you tilt it to much, you'll spill water on the car floor

Well on to the interesting part about my day in the garage... I started to pull the Hemi appart. Unbolted the intake and then driver side head.. After that I kinda ran out off steam. In my defence I had worked 3 nights and again had to work later in the evening.. But at least I got things going again with my Charger/Hemi project...

Here are some pictures...

Intake and driver side head unbolted and a view into the heart of the engine... Notice that the block is painted on the inside as well. This is a trick that racers use so the oil from the valvetrain will return down into the oilpan faster.. Don't know if it actually works or not, but some racers swear that it does...





My buddy measured the bore of the cylinders... and Lo and Behold it seems that the cylinders are al STOCK bore (4.25") Seems that the only thing done is that the engine cylinders have been honed at some point in time and then one of the previous owners added Venolia pistons... Then again the Mauser meter may not have been the most accurate, but still we measured al 4 cylinders and they are al the about the same 4.256" in diameter...

Some pix of the inside of the cylinders, cylinder walls and pistons. Notice the work done make the flow better over the piston dome..







As you can see the pistons are covered in soot, so I need to clean them up a bit. Same goes for the valves..

Here are the Hemi heads, port work done by Mullen & Co.. The intake/exhaust ports look like

Picture of intake side of the head..



Exhaust side...



Well thats al I have this time, but another update will follow...

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Nice pics Tom...those heads look fantastic !  The cylinder walls look to be in descent shape from what i can see in the pics 

Those pistons sure look funny 

So, you still thinking roller cam ? 



Ron

[Brock Samson]

I remember when i met you on here Tom,.. and you were wowed by MY combo...
   

nice pics!

[Mefirst]

Nice pics Tom...those heads look fantastic !  The cylinder walls look to be in descent shape from what i can see in the pics 

Those pistons sure look funny 

So, you still thinking roller cam ? 

Ron

Ron

-Yeah. I'm going with a roller cam. Haven't yet decided though which one. I'm not gonna use the Crane 669091 that came with the engine when I bought it. Its just insane to drive the engine on the street with that cam when the lift is .750 It would eat valve springs like a kid eats candy... But I will save it for future use, that cam will work well with the custom made aluminium intake I had made.. I got a sweet deal on an Indy intake for the Dominator carb I have, so thats the intake I'm gonna use on it for now, then find a cam that will work well with it and the rest of the combo. I also need to find out the exact compression of the engine. None of the previous owners remembers what the comp exactly is.. One says 12.5 or 12.7 and the one I bought it from says it is 13.0..

The heads look awsome, damn I can almost fit my fist into the intake ports. I thought about having them tested on how much they flow. Its not that expensive to do that test, so I think it would be worth it and fun just to know...

You can still see the cross hatch patter in the cylinder walls, they look like new, then again the engine has not been driven that much since it came to Sweden. It was never in a street car until the guy I bought it from put it in his Chally, and he did not drive the car that much.. I also know the owner before the one I bought it from, had it rebuilt and only did a couple of runs with it on the track before he pulled it out and then sold it.. So my guess is that the engine doesn't have that many miles on it, more or less just enough to have broken it in...

/Tom