DodgeCharger.com Forum
December 18, 2014, 10:18:43 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Please remember: this is the place to discuss Chargers - NOT the place to discuss politics. Political posts will be locked or deleted at the Moderator's discretion.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Login Register Chat  
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 318 to 402 Edelbrock LA Stroker Build  (Read 52372 times)
Beer
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 701


73 HT w/ 402 LA Stroker


« on: July 24, 2005, 04:24:02 AM »

318 to a 402 LA Block Stroker, using the Edelbrock RPM package

Here is a thread that spanned a few months during the build. This will cover all the issues I encountered with this build.

Once I got the Charger home,



My buddy and I pulled the tired original 318 2 bbl from the 73 Charger HT. The engine had 102,000 miles on it and was used for towing a Shasta Camper from New Jersey to Maine.

Here is what we started with.





I am on the left, now don't think I let my buddy do all the work, I was so cruddy I had to change to go get the right bolts for the engine to go on the stand (and get more Beer from the store too!). Took about 10 hours with moderate Beer consumption.

With the engine out I had grand visions of a massive 416 LA Stroker (ya I know...why didn't you build a Big Block??? Everybody builds Big Blocks! I want something different), first step take it to the machine shop and see what is good. Fortunately, the block, crank and heads were all good. The crank and heads I managed to sell to the machine shop as cores. The machine shop did ultra sound to determine the cylinder thickness after the Magnafluxing and block cleaning. After a discussion with the shop we agreed on a 4.00"Ě bore as reasonable, should be plenty of cylinder wall for cooling. What they did was offset bore the cylinders to ensure uniform thickness around the cylinder.

Here is the block freshened up a bit.



Piston choice was Diamond Forged Pistons P/N 51401



Rods were Forged Eagle H beams P/N CRS6123C3D




Once the block was bored, we added a 4" Mopar Performance Forged crank P/N P5007252, the block had to be clearanced, here is a picture of a cylinder that has been clearanced.





Here is the motor starting to shape up.









One of the big headaches was the bottom end Oil pan. Turns out the Main caps on the 73 LA Block were low profile. The Windage tray would not work with these caps. I ended up with Mildon P/N 32230 for a windage tray, with Milidon windage tray studs P/N MIL 81167 (Ford studs) that had to be machined to work. The Oil Pan was a Mildon P/N 30935.









We discussed the Cam and Head choice, and I decided to go with the Edelbrock Performer RPM line, and Comp Cams Roller rockers.

Heads Edelbrock P/N 60779
Intake Edelbrock P/N 7576
Roller Rocker Comp Cams COM132216

Heads on







Heads and Comp Cams Roller Rockers







The Intake is an Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap. Carb is a Performer 800 CFM with electric choke.
Here are the pics of the Motor just about done and ready for dyno.

















Dyno Time



Here is a movie of the motor on the dyno
Right Click save as, else click the link and it should stream
http://www.retrorelics.net/jim/FilesDL/Dyno402DL.wmv

Here are the results



Here is my cost and parts used in this build



Quick lessons learned...
1. Mail Order the parts (paid no state tax on the mail order items that alone is worth a few hundred bucks).
2. Research the parts and hunt the best prices, some parts I did, some parts I let the shop get. After seeing their mark up, I will provide all the parts my next build.

Logged


1973 Dodge Charger 402 Stroker Smallblock 414 HP/ 466 ft/lbs torque,  8 3/4" 3.91 Suregrip rear w/ DR. Diff disk brake conversion, CalTracs single leaf and Rear Suspension, VFN Bulge Hood, Running, needs interior completed, on Street Spring 2014
Beer
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 701


73 HT w/ 402 LA Stroker


« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2005, 04:55:54 AM »

Crap Thread exceeded 6000 characters!

OK continuing on!

Follow up issues...

I have done some detailing and started to add the engine accessories.
The first issue was the Edelbrock heads stick out further by about an inch where the lower alternator bracket connects to the head.

I had to cut the origional bracket about 1" and weld it back up.



Next the Squareback Alternator touches the head and is limited on its adjustment arc.



The fix was to use the roundback Alternator, its close but it does clear ok.




I intend to use the factory A/C on this build. Problem was that the Edelbrock Water pump was cast so that it interferes with the A/C Bracket.
I had to modify the bracket to get it to fit. The bottom of the bracket was straight...



Once I got the bracket done, I discovered that the water pump also interfered with the double pully set up...



Notice the fan is on backwards...yep...the Mopar performance fan new from Summit had a bent blade on the corner, and was incorrectly marked...

The Bend



The markings on the wrong side! Mopar Performance Quality Control Huh?




With the A/C issue I intend to change out the water pump now...

The Next issue was the TTI Headers I got from Mancini. The drivers side had a slip fit on the rear most tube (it was not welded).



I was curious about it after looking at for a few weeks and I called TTI to ask if it was supposed to be that way. What I found out was the slip fit header is for A body cars. Manicini had sent me A Body Headers. TTI said that the passenger side header is identical for both A and B body cars. The drivers side is different. The A body has the slip fit drivers side rear tube, the B Body all the tubes are welded. Mancini has sent me the correct drivers side header, and I am waiting for the credit for the $300 they charged me to swap them out once they get the A-Body Header back.

Here is the Power Steering Setup, this went OK



As it sits now



Will finish this post as I get time…more to come...
Logged


1973 Dodge Charger 402 Stroker Smallblock 414 HP/ 466 ft/lbs torque,  8 3/4" 3.91 Suregrip rear w/ DR. Diff disk brake conversion, CalTracs single leaf and Rear Suspension, VFN Bulge Hood, Running, needs interior completed, on Street Spring 2014
Chryco Psycho
Global Moderator
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,755


www.panamaroadrunner.com


WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2005, 10:43:47 PM »

we need to get the proven combos section upo again
Logged
Charger_Fan
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,282


Undercover Charger


« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2005, 05:54:38 PM »

Thanks for posting your engine build story again, Beer! cheers

You'll have a perma-grin when you get around to running this thing in your Charger. icon_smile_big
Logged

Paul G
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,962


Surprise, Arizona


WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2005, 09:22:24 PM »

Great thread. Keep it coming!  cheers
Logged


1972 Charger Topper Special, 360ci, A518 OD, 8 3/4 3.91 sure grip, 14.93@92 mph.

Mopars Unlimited of Arizona

http://www.moparsaz.com/#
Lostsheep
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 269



« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2005, 06:52:41 AM »

Thanks Beer
Logged

charger_72_318
Junior Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 89



WWW
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2005, 07:42:04 PM »

Man, that's just sick ..... puke puke puke puke
Beer, this is an excellent project, hope you finish it soon, can't wait to see that thing running on the streets, when is your deathline for placing it back into the charger? I know hurry doesn't help, i know for experience....
BTW, you documented it very good, you have more videos? Man that engine deserve to appear on a magazine. I bet your are gonna run the 1/4 in a 13's with 395 HP to the wheels. † devildevildevildevil
Congrats Beer !!!

 cheers

charger_72_318
Logged


72 Charger hardtop tranny, carb and intake swap
92 Spirit DOHC Gone
Runner
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 907



« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2005, 09:10:34 PM »

great pictures and read. the engine looks fantastic,  almost good enough to make me want to biuld a smallblock.   the one thing i dont understand is,  how drunk was the cnc operator at edelbrock when they did the 'edelbrock" script on the sb mopar heads.   thanks for sharing
Logged


71 roadrunner 452 e heads  11.35@119 mph owned sence 1984
72 panther pink satellite sebring plus 383 727
68 satellite 383 4 speed  13.80 @ 102 mph  my daily driver
69 superbee clone 440    daughters car
72 dodge dart swinger slant six
Beer
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 701


73 HT w/ 402 LA Stroker


« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2005, 08:29:40 AM »

Thanks guys,

Likely gonna remove the A/C...and add that after the car is running a while (maybe), so that is a change of plans. Looking for a rally dash with the Heating controls without A/C.

I have the body stripped. I am on a list to get the car restored, however I talked to the guy at the track last week and it seems he bumped my car back on his list. Once I get a car trailer, I may take the rolling chasis to some shops for some body work estimates. Still looking like 18 monthes or more till its assembled and running.

Had I to do it over again, I would likely have gone with a bigger Cam, however the machine shop says this is gonna have great street manners for the torque it has. I also have a spare intake that will be plumbed for Direct Port NO2. Likely a 100-150 shot (the all forged bottom end , the shop says should be good for a 200 shot), added after its first season of racing. Hoping for 7's in the 1/8. Be awhile til that happens though.
Logged


1973 Dodge Charger 402 Stroker Smallblock 414 HP/ 466 ft/lbs torque,  8 3/4" 3.91 Suregrip rear w/ DR. Diff disk brake conversion, CalTracs single leaf and Rear Suspension, VFN Bulge Hood, Running, needs interior completed, on Street Spring 2014
Silver R/T
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,875


1968 Dodge Charger R/T


« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2005, 05:45:52 PM »

what a nice thread, so many pictures! so much info, thank you!
Logged

http://www.cardomain.com/id/mitmaks

1968 silver/black/red striped R/T
My Charger is hybrid, it runs on gas and on tears of ricers
2001 Ram 2500 CTD
1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE
1995 Ford Cobra SVT#2722
ScottW
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 220



« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2005, 08:42:26 PM »

Thanks a ton BEER!  laugh

This is one of the coolest threads ever! I gotta check in this forum more often. I'm thinking of stroking the 360 on my 74, using e-heads, comp rollers, etc. so this is right on the money for me and the pics are great.

What was the tally on the beer?   Grin


Logged

1971 Dodge Charger SE 383 Magnum
1974 Dodge Charger SE 360/4v Sunroof
Beer
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 701


73 HT w/ 402 LA Stroker


« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2005, 07:35:08 AM »

You may be interested in this site ScottW

http://www.geocities.com/alwest_83/dyno

Its 360 Dyno testing with various combo's.
Not stroker, but it gives ya an idea.

It was not not the Beer that killed me it was all the dinners out with the wife to smoose over just how much I was spending on the motor!

I am pretty much a stroked 5b on that site, you can see that that they were able to get a tad more than I did out of it (unless its a "liberal" dyno that added some HP). I was hoping to have what package 8 had for power (450+).

I could have gotten the heads ported for $500 and maybe that would have got me up there (but I started to get cheap there in the end).   For now though I am focusing on the body of the car.

Logged


1973 Dodge Charger 402 Stroker Smallblock 414 HP/ 466 ft/lbs torque,  8 3/4" 3.91 Suregrip rear w/ DR. Diff disk brake conversion, CalTracs single leaf and Rear Suspension, VFN Bulge Hood, Running, needs interior completed, on Street Spring 2014
Steve P.
Global Moderator
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,482



« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2005, 07:18:54 PM »

Great thread Beer.. Like I told you long ago, (THIS BUD IS YOU).. cheers
Logged

Steve P.
Holiday, Florida
charger_72_318
Junior Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 89



WWW
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2005, 09:21:56 AM »

Shocked Shocked Shocked More power ??..??..??
Jesus, if you keep adding more high performance components to that engine.... rotz rotz rotz I'm gonna have to apologize, 'cause your car will be running not the 1/8 as you said, but the 1/4 of mile at 7's easily † 2thumbs
Once again, congrats beer, this is an amazing creation, thanks for sharing
cheers
Logged


72 Charger hardtop tranny, carb and intake swap
92 Spirit DOHC Gone
Beer
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 701


73 HT w/ 402 LA Stroker


« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2005, 06:03:46 AM »

Ok here is the A/C removal and bracket pulley issues resolved

Changed out the Double alternator pulley for a single pulley, purchased from Mancini Racing. Cost $8 to have the double pulley pressed off and the single pulley pressed in at a local shop.

Here is the Mancini alternater Bracket. No issues at all (perfect fit) Part #MREPN-795$39.95 http://store.yahoo.com/chucker54/albrac1970up.html
I did get confused on the instructions. I wanted to put the alternator holding tab behind the bracket, naturally that did not work, I eventually looked at the instructions for the other part number (the written instructions for the 795 had a scemetic of the brackets, but did not show the alternator in at at all) and saw a drawing showing the correct installation and figured out the alternator tab goes in front of the bracket as pictured.









The waterpump pully for the A/C is lined up on the front pulley on the crank and is smaller in Dia than the non A/C waterpump pulley.

The waterpump pully for the non-A/C is lined up on the second crank pulley and is larger than the A/C waterpump pulley.

The crank pulley for the A/C is a three pulley (same size pulleys)
The crank pulley for a non-A/C is two pulley's with the second one being slightly smaller than the front one.


Cheers
Beer


Logged


1973 Dodge Charger 402 Stroker Smallblock 414 HP/ 466 ft/lbs torque,  8 3/4" 3.91 Suregrip rear w/ DR. Diff disk brake conversion, CalTracs single leaf and Rear Suspension, VFN Bulge Hood, Running, needs interior completed, on Street Spring 2014
Beer
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 701


73 HT w/ 402 LA Stroker


« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2005, 06:15:26 AM »

Picture update without the A/C on.












Logged


1973 Dodge Charger 402 Stroker Smallblock 414 HP/ 466 ft/lbs torque,  8 3/4" 3.91 Suregrip rear w/ DR. Diff disk brake conversion, CalTracs single leaf and Rear Suspension, VFN Bulge Hood, Running, needs interior completed, on Street Spring 2014
Ghoste
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 37,376



« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2005, 04:40:53 PM »

Now THAT'S a comprehensive post!  Thanks Beer.
Logged

Support the Charger registries at

http://www.1966-67chargerregistry.com/

to submit info to the 69 registry, pm me

http://1970chargerregistry.com/
http://www.71chargerrtregistry.com/
charger_72_318
Junior Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 89



WWW
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2005, 04:43:24 PM »

Perfect! all brand new. † angel
By the way, what's the current state of the car body?
Logged


72 Charger hardtop tranny, carb and intake swap
92 Spirit DOHC Gone
Steve P.
Global Moderator
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,482



« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2005, 10:26:56 PM »

I say Beer has a hand in the design of the new Challenger.. Who seconds the motion?? icon_smile_question
Logged

Steve P.
Holiday, Florida
charger_72_318
Junior Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 89



WWW
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2005, 11:06:57 PM »

I think beer is crazy!!! But also a very original guy....
As he said, he could build a BB but instead he decided for something really different.
I say: give the man a job at MoPaR † 2thumbs

Cheers
 cheers
Logged


72 Charger hardtop tranny, carb and intake swap
92 Spirit DOHC Gone
Beer
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 701


73 HT w/ 402 LA Stroker


« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2005, 05:58:41 AM »

LOL thanks guys, but I would likely "get run off" ("oil field" for fired) due to a lack of production. 18 months to get the motor done and way over budget!

The body is still totally stripped. I had gotten on the list of one of the top restore guys in the state, and was like fifth on his list. I saw him at the track end of Oct and went up to check my status on his list, and somehow, Despite him finishing the 71 Buick he was doing (I was five cars back including the Buick) I went to about 8 cars back (shoulda been 4th  nono )...Needless to say at 4 months a car, and being bumped I dont think he will be doing the work.

I have approched a local shop I have seen really good work come out of, however when I approached them, they say there is no money in restore work (this I do not understand...a shop rate is a shop rate...). So I am patently waiting for my buddy to get a trailer so I can load up the rolling chasis and tow it to more shops to see who will do it flame

In the mean time I got the dash redone in Oct with a dashpad (did a thread on that here in interiors) and this time home I have the rear seat uphostery coming (will do a thread on that to).

So I am slowly plugging away...on da 73.

Oh, if I could have a hand in the Challenger it would certainly only be a two door, with the retro look of the origional (done better than the new Mustang), with and without functional ram air. Black gauges (not a fan of white) No V6's, only V-8's/V-10. Six Speed Manual/ 4 speed Auto with an overdrive, Factory headers 3" Duals with X pipe for exhaust, Sure Grip and Traction control as well a ABS (TC could be turned off on the fly), gear availibility from 4.11 (R/T) to 3.23 (Base model) and yes there would be a convertible RT. 

Cheers
Beer
Logged


1973 Dodge Charger 402 Stroker Smallblock 414 HP/ 466 ft/lbs torque,  8 3/4" 3.91 Suregrip rear w/ DR. Diff disk brake conversion, CalTracs single leaf and Rear Suspension, VFN Bulge Hood, Running, needs interior completed, on Street Spring 2014
Ghoste
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 37,376



« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2005, 06:41:58 AM »

Shop rate is shop rate, but insurance paid collision repair is more like shop rate RT.
Logged

Support the Charger registries at

http://www.1966-67chargerregistry.com/

to submit info to the 69 registry, pm me

http://1970chargerregistry.com/
http://www.71chargerrtregistry.com/
Beer
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 701


73 HT w/ 402 LA Stroker


« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2006, 06:48:02 PM »

Had some time and decided to test fit the motor with the new oil pan. cudaken was right I will need to notch the K frame. The pan clears buts its just too close...

Here is the motor in, we are not really sure how the mounts go. I had pictures of the the passenger side mount when we took it off, I was sure that it goes to the front side of the† ears on the block(based on the picture), when we went to install it, the engine was cockeyed in this configuration. The mount for the drivers side only fits behind the ears of the block...I still need to clear up this issue. Anyone with a smallblock 73 I could use pictures of your mounts and how they are installed on your block icon_smile_question I believe I have them right now, as the pan really can't stand to move forward or backward, its really tight.


This correct for the drivers side engine mount?


Here is how I thought the passengers side was, the only way the engine would fit correctly was to put the mount behind
the ears so this photo is I beleive not how to do it???


Front with the engine in place



Front passenger side where cudaken notched his. Its not touching but its close and when the motor torques...likely it will rub.


Tie rod is close too, its about an 1" away with the wheels centered, when the wheels are hard over it almost touches the pan.








Cheers
Beer
Logged


1973 Dodge Charger 402 Stroker Smallblock 414 HP/ 466 ft/lbs torque,  8 3/4" 3.91 Suregrip rear w/ DR. Diff disk brake conversion, CalTracs single leaf and Rear Suspension, VFN Bulge Hood, Running, needs interior completed, on Street Spring 2014
Beer
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 701


73 HT w/ 402 LA Stroker


« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2007, 09:05:42 AM »

Yearly update LOL.

Got sidetracked dabbling with the Corvette, got into tuning (EFI-Live, Nitrous for LS-1's, did some bolt on's). Started a side Biz that should generate a little cash (Filling Nitrous bottles, making custom panels for cars w/ various "accessory needs).

Here's some samples of the panel biz Smiley



Below Two Stage Nitrous Panel is the one for my Personal Car













Anyways hope to get the Charger project back on track this year using the proceeds of my new Nitrous enterprises!

Beer
Logged


1973 Dodge Charger 402 Stroker Smallblock 414 HP/ 466 ft/lbs torque,  8 3/4" 3.91 Suregrip rear w/ DR. Diff disk brake conversion, CalTracs single leaf and Rear Suspension, VFN Bulge Hood, Running, needs interior completed, on Street Spring 2014
Lostsheep
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 269



« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2007, 01:16:35 PM »

Those switch panels look really good.
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.9 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.184 seconds with 17 queries.