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Author Topic: 999 Superbirds  (Read 17486 times)
moparstuart
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2008, 09:27:59 AM »

The only Petty Blue 'bird that I have seen in person was not coded 999, it was C37D.   shruggy
all the ones I have seen are  999 codes  maybe petty bird could chime in   dougy HuhHuhHuh??
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hemigeno
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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2008, 12:33:41 PM »

was there ever a silver wing car? i i seen a daytona with red, howabout a SB?

Strat, are you asking if there was a silver colored wing, or whether any had a silver body color?

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Aero426
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« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2008, 12:35:26 PM »

The only Petty Blue 'bird that I have seen in person was not coded 999, it was C37D.   shruggy

C37D is also the mark of a Petty Blue Bird.  But the ones I recall say 999 on the tag. 
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« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2008, 12:39:37 PM »

a silver super bird... i've never seen one, but it would look awesome..
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hemigeno
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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2008, 12:48:24 PM »

Not that I'm aware of anyway, although I haven't followed 'Birds as closely as the Daytonas.    FK5 is the only "exception" to the rule so far, and it's a pretty safe bet that there were no factory-original EA4 'Birds.
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« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2008, 03:40:08 PM »

I don't think I've ever seen a Superbird even painted Silver, even though back in the day there were plenty of them sporting odd paint combinations, and graphics.

There are plenty of A4 Daytona's, well I don't know about plenty, but there is definately more than just 1. There was 3 at the Monster Mopar 2 years ago.
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Hemi_tyme
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« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2008, 09:17:06 PM »

Petty Blue
OK I'm quoting myself here but all 999 paints code birds had Petty blue paint!!!! The 3 FK5 color, cars had this stamped on the fender tag. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Ken
Sorry guy's I was only tyring to stay on the topic of the tread ............which is 999 Superbirds 2thumbs
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69_500
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« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2008, 09:27:10 PM »

So what is the break down of the 999 "Petty blue" Superbirds by engine sizes? Anyone have any idea?

I'm figuring that there can't be more than a handful of Petty blue HEMI Superbirds, as I can only think of 1 that i've seen, and I've probably seen a dozen different 6 bbl Superbirds, and not a whole lot of 4 bbl cars. Total I'd say around 25 or so?
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Ghoste
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« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2008, 12:56:29 PM »

And looking back, you'd almost think that it would be a very popular color choice on the Superbirds.
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rainbow4jd
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« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2008, 06:51:39 PM »

The only Petty Blue 'bird that I have seen in person was not coded 999, it was C37D.   shruggy

I was told by a former Lynch Road line worker, Barry Clifton, that C37D is a production code for "Center Console Delete" - it was added on some Superbirds to ensure the console was not added on 4 speed Superbirds.   

He said it replaced an older code of C20 for the 1970 model year and that it was a unique Superbird Code.

C codes are Trim Codes by classification - so the line workers who are responsible for trim - just look at their section of the build sheet and respond to the appropriate code. 

I don't know if what he is talking about is true - but I have a 999 'bird and it is a 4-speed. 

Is there anyone with a 999 automatic that has C37D?
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rainbow4jd
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« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2008, 07:01:17 PM »

So what is the break down of the 999 "Petty blue" Superbirds by engine sizes? Anyone have any idea?

I'm figuring that there can't be more than a handful of Petty blue HEMI Superbirds, as I can only think of 1 that i've seen, and I've probably seen a dozen different 6 bbl Superbirds, and not a whole lot of 4 bbl cars. Total I'd say around 25 or so?

There are no Hemi 999 'birds.   It has to do with the Christmas Break special production run of 50 "Petty Blue" Superbirds for marketing purposes.  They are also build sheet notated as NASCAR 2.    They had to be built prior to the introduction of EPA pollution regulations that went into effect on Jan 1, 1970.    Chrysler was only concerned about the exterior of the vehicles.   

This is also why the J codes of the Petty Blue Superbirds are out of sequence.   My  "Petty Bird" is J99501 and has white interior, 440-4V, 3:54 Dana 4 speed, 38,000 original miles.
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pettybird
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« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2008, 10:14:03 PM »

The only Petty Blue 'bird that I have seen in person was not coded 999, it was C37D.   shruggy

C37D is also the mark of a Petty Blue Bird.  But the ones I recall say 999 on the tag. 


dragging this back from the dead because I missed the damn thread somehow--

the tags read C37D two lines above the standard paint code location (think where V01 would be on the tag, all the way to the left, right above the screw.)  the paint code is filled in as 999


the bcast sheet lists as 37D in the "paint style" box and 999 in the "body paint" box, window sticker at 7D19 as the color/top combo.  the window sticker I saw (at carlisle last year) was the ONLY Corporation Blue I've ever seen, and it made no mention of the color except a the top.  there's an instruction sheet for ordering the color that states the paint is an extra $69.50 retail, but this car wasn't charged for it on the sticker...that was weird to me because any of the traditional "high impact" colors are always charged the standard $14.50.


and J99525 checking in here.  I've never heard of the "christmas break special" at all--my car was built the second or third week of November according to the master list, VIN 168776.

yes, there are plenty of auto petty cars.  barry's is (right?) there's a white interior 4bbl car from NY, the one californiamopars was trying to sell forever was a bench auto, the car Tim Wellborn bought was a bench auto, and I've ridden in an Iowa owned black bucket/console 440 auto car.  that was a treat!




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pettybird
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« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2008, 10:16:19 PM »

The only Petty Blue 'bird that I have seen in person was not coded 999, it was C37D.   shruggy

I was told by a former Lynch Road line worker, Barry Clifton, that C37D is a production code for "Center Console Delete" - it was added on some Superbirds to ensure the console was not added on 4 speed Superbirds.   

C codes are interior trim. sure, but since an console was an extra cost option (C16) there isn't a reason why there would be a delete code.  I also can't count the number of console 4 speed cars I've been in, let alone seen (I'm a wing car ride whore.)

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Alaskan_TA
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« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2008, 08:09:29 PM »

I agree, a console was an option, so there is no delete code. It just would not have been ordered.

If anyone has a C37D code on a Superbird that is not Petty Blue, I would love to see it?  Wink
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pettybird
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« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2008, 10:40:10 PM »

C37D is the sales code for Corporation Blue. 


then again, this is mopar, so for all I know a C37D '65 Coronet was painted like a zebra.
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Alaskan_TA
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« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2008, 07:29:05 AM »

Kind of related...

1970 Satellite four door from Lynch Road, note the 999 paint codes & the C415 code above them.


* 999_C415.JPG (149.97 KB, 640x480 - viewed 708 times.)
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pettybird
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« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2008, 07:23:53 PM »

weird--some random green, like '68 medium green?


that's wild!
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Alaskan_TA
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« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2008, 07:46:38 PM »

It could be anything.

If this car was a fleet order, even a Ford or Chevy (or?) color could have been specified. If it had a known paint formula, Chrysler would make it so for the customer.

If anyone has any other examples I would love to see them. As far as I know, 1970 Lynch Road cars are the only ones that specified a secondary paint code like this for the 999 cars?  shruggy
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rainbow4jd
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« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2010, 11:22:57 AM »

The only Petty Blue 'bird that I have seen in person was not coded 999, it was C37D.   shruggy

C37D is also the mark of a Petty Blue Bird.  But the ones I recall say 999 on the tag. 


dragging this back from the dead because I missed the damn thread somehow--

the tags read C37D two lines above the standard paint code location (think where V01 would be on the tag, all the way to the left, right above the screw.)  the paint code is filled in as 999


the bcast sheet lists as 37D in the "paint style" box and 999 in the "body paint" box, window sticker at 7D19 as the color/top combo.  the window sticker I saw (at carlisle last year) was the ONLY Corporation Blue I've ever seen, and it made no mention of the color except a the top.  there's an instruction sheet for ordering the color that states the paint is an extra $69.50 retail, but this car wasn't charged for it on the sticker...that was weird to me because any of the traditional "high impact" colors are always charged the standard $14.50.


and J99525 checking in here.  I've never heard of the "christmas break special" at all--my car was built the second or third week of November according to the master list, VIN 168776.

yes, there are plenty of auto petty cars.  barry's is (right?) there's a white interior 4bbl car from NY, the one californiamopars was trying to sell forever was a bench auto, the car Tim Wellborn bought was a bench auto, and I've ridden in an Iowa owned black bucket/console 440 auto car.  that was a treat!






OK, I am pretty certain about this - and I think we can verify it based on our wierd J Numbers - as well as some input from Doug Schellinger's site.

Richard Petty drove Ford's for NASCAR in 1969.  At the end of the 1969 NASCAR season he resigned with Pymouth (that's approximately November 30th or so).    Chrysler realized they had NOT produced any Plymouth Superbird's with the Petty Blue exterior paint.   Obviously, with Petty being the most recognized Plymouth and NASCAR star (aka the Lebron James of his day) they needed to produce some Corporate or "Petty" Blue cars.   They had to do this before January 1, 1970 due to pollution regulations that the EPA was implementing.  As a result, Plymouth kicked out 50 "Petty Blue" cars - all of which have the NASCAR 2 designation on the lower left build sheet corner and 999 paint code.   

But here's the deal  - as I understand it - they didn't create new VIN numbers for these vehicles - they converted EXISTING serialized units (meaning RoadRunners that had been committed for production but not yet begun assembly).  The RR bodies were already there - probably primered - but they had not started down the line.   It just makes sense from a manufacturing standpoint - you would NOT build 50 incremental units from scratch - in the interest of time and money, you just convert EXISTING scheduled production.   So all you have to do is find 50 plainly optioned cars across an existing UNBUILT universe of what ever your production lead time was - say 30 days or probably about 1000 units.

Note:  My guess is that some manager arbitrarily said "No Hemi's - let's keep it simple.   Pull the 440's"    Either that or the Hemi's may have had a particular date sequence that inhibited their choice for this project.

These 50 units were pulled for Superbird conversion and assigned NEW J NUMBERS.   The J number is the "build sequence number" and more accurate in describing when a vehicle actually starts down the line - that's why the J number on the Petty Birds is so much higher than those of regular Birds.  They run in a sequential group of J99501 thru J99550.

After completing the Lynch Road run of Superbird "prep" they were shipped to Creative Concepts (?) for the Nose, Glass, and Wing conversions.   I am told this was completed during the historical automotive "Christmas break" normal downtime so they could meet the January 1, 1970 deadline.   

In sum, Petty Blue cars would show production dates of late November (the dates of their original VIN serialization) but J numbers (production sequence numbers) much higher - because of them being pulled "out of sequence" for their "Petty" conversion.

This is all information I learned "anecdotally" back in the early 80s.   I know I personally talked to Galen Govier at that time, Gary Romar (I think) had written or provided the DSAD some information, and Monroe and Doug had also provided me some information when I met them at Mopar Nats.

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68X426
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« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2010, 11:41:19 AM »

Great thread, good to see its return. popcrn
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« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2010, 12:06:28 PM »

Just to fan the flames a little.... lol

When sorted, the 79 Winged Warriors list shows 13 Petty Blue Superbirds.

(Now keep in mind, this was 1979.  When someone asked you what color your car was, you probably answered with the ACTUAL color it was, not with the paint code take off a fender tag.  If your car was repainted purple, you said purple.  When people submitted their information to the Winged Warriors, they may have reported their repainted-to-petty-blue car as Petty Blue.  A lot of people like that color.)

Of the 13 Petty Blue cars on the list:

Two are Hemis - one automatic, one manual
Four are Six Barrels - one auto, three manuals
Seven are four barrels - four autos, two manuals, one unknown

They are listed with both black and white interiors
They are listed with both Bucket and Bench seats
Some do have consoles
There are examples of both automatics and manuals with consoles

The VINs run from in the 155xxx range all the way up to 179xxx range

I don't have enough J code data to work with.

Keep in mind, this information has floated down over several Decades!  There are numerous points at which errors could have entered.

Brennan
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« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2010, 12:52:24 PM »

ALSO!  Something very interesting:

Ten of the 13 Petty Blue cars on the Winged Warriors list show up as the last car (or in a series of petty blue cars at the end of) in the "runs" of VINs as described by the NASCAR serial number list.

If you have a Petty Blue car, go to http://brcook.com/id17.html and check to see if your VIN is near the beginning or end of one of the VIN runs.  If you want me to compile as much data as possible, send me what you know and I will put it into some kind of order.

Brennan
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Brcook.com contains the entire NASCAR shipping list of Superbirds sorted by VIN and a number of other pages dedicated to production information.
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« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2010, 01:00:04 PM »

Hi Steve--I got your PM as well.  We're only in Cleveland--I'd love to see your car!  I don't remember my J number off the top of my head, but you van gladly have a copy of my build sheet.  There's a bunch more knowledge on these cars since the "anecdotal" stuff from 30 years ago--I hope this clears up some of it!  I'll PM you back with more info.  

Plenty of Superbirds have "NASCAR NO.2" on their build sheets.

The cars aren't "Petty Blue."  they're (Chrysler) Corporation Blue, meaning they're the same color as the signs at the dealerships.  While certainly close, Petty's formula and the color on the car are different.  Petty owns the rights to his color, and Plymouth didn't license it.

Go back to the original (and only) dealer announcement brochure.  It lists seven colors, the last of which is Corporation Blue.  This would have been printed in early-mid October.  I don't know when Petty signed back on, but that's when the color choices were solidified.  

Plymouth issued a memo to dealers on November 4, 1969,  explaining how to order Corporation Blue cars.  They listed the C37D and 999 codes, as well as a suggested retail price of $69.50.  I would assume, by the issuance of the memo, that most dealers didn't normally special order colors, and certainly didn't order them the color of their signage.  Even if you got smart and went to the parts department for the paint chip charts, you need to grab the 66-68 pages just to find a Ditzler code for Corporation Blue--they're not on the 69-72 pages.  

Here's the memo:  http://www.aerowarriors.com/cda/cda_110469.html

Petty's real "gotcha" in coming back to Chrysler was the stripping of Nichels Engineering of the race division, sending all parts and fabrication to Level Cross.  That meant a lot more to his pocket than some goofy cars in bright blue.  

Not all 999 cars have tachs, not all are one transmission or another, etc.  Also, I don't know how many sales bank Hemi birds were made--since Hyland Park picked the options for the 999 cars I've seen, it could be that they were trying to make them more 'saleable.'  Superbirds were Superbirds from start to finish--their VINS and broadcast sheets were set before the shells were welded together.  No one was sent looking for "low option" shells already in production.  Besides, IF the cars were 'already' road runners, how would you have a pile of U code cars around?  New VIN numbers would have to be issued, regardless.  

The J numbers are not sequential, and there is a HUGE variance in VIN numbers.  If you go to the old sheets Brennan talks about (we're one of the black interior/4 speed cars--Rick Croxford of Muncie, IN) you can see the cars were built in batches.  There are five or six here, a couple there, and this makes all the sense in the world considering the paint wasn't a normal color.  Fleet trucks are painted consecutively, too.  Of course, there are a LOT of holes in those sheets, and many people have been filling them in for years.  There are no 50 consecutive cars, and 50 is an arbitrary number for 999 paint jobs--there is NO documentation to state how many cars were actually built by color.  

Our VIN is 168776, shown on the shipping list as in on Nov. 25, out on the 26th from Clairpointe (not Creative Industries,) meaning it was done before Thanksgiving.  Our car was not immediately assigned to a dealer, as we have the pre-delivery inspection sheet showing the car was prepped on December 26th.  Last year, at Talladega, we met the owners of 168775, and theirs was also at Clairpointe before Thanksgiving.

and Brennan yep--we're at the end.  Again I suspect it has to do with the odd paint. 
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pettybird
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« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2010, 10:58:46 PM »

I also have the seldom-included "NASCAR Master #1" sheet (only sheet 2 of 2; a friend of mine has both,) and it lists "S.O.#'s  B30-J97000-J99499" at the bottom.  The memo is from 10/7/1969, and I know Corporation Blue is listed on page 1. 
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« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2010, 09:48:11 AM »

I also have the seldom-included "NASCAR Master #1" sheet (only sheet 2 of 2; a friend of mine has both,) and it lists "S.O.#'s  B30-J97000-J99499" at the bottom.  The memo is from 10/7/1969, and I know Corporation Blue is listed on page 1. 

Wow!  Very interesting.

Brennan suggests we start a 999 Registry to see if we can pull enough data together to see some trends or shed some light.   I'll start it with my stuff as soon as I get back from vacation.   I'm thinking Fender Tag data by line with an overview of the car  - i.e. "Corporation Blue, White Buckets, 440 4V, 4 Speed no console, 3:54 Dana, tach, AM radio, 15 inche rallyes, no other options"
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