Junk 440 Up Date, not happy yet but might be a lifter or wipped out cam

[cudaken]

 Messed with the POS today, can't say I have good new's but feeling just a little better, not a lot but a little.

Pulled the valve cover's and rockers and push rod look normal. (that is if you like over spary on them but that is a driffrent rant I posted a few weeks ago) Checked the bolts, and nothing backed out. Cranked her over and every thing looked normal. Button her back up.

Fired her up and something has changed, hear the tapping all the time now. Might be due to the fact I had the Runner's freash air cleaner on the 440, cover's a lot of the engine, it's off now.

Soon as she is off idle tapping is get's louder so that is driffrent as well. With her running I placed my hand on the fuel pump and felt nothing so I am 90% sure now it not the new pump. Started to pull wires and tapping sound never changed. Was told that if it was a bad wrist pin or broken skrit the tapping would stop or change. I did only pull the right side, will do the left later.

With the air cleaner off, the sound sounds like it is coming from under the intake. Sound's like a thin hollow sound. Not like a main or rod beating it self to death. Never heard a bad wrist pin or bad skirt.

Now the meat of the posting.

What is the best way to spot a bad cam lop, just at the apex of the lift or will there be a color change?

This is the tuff one, how do you spot a bad lifter?

Now the dumb question, is there any reason you cannot run the 440 with out the valley pan. Before you started thinking I am a real dumb ass, I have the paper gaskets that came with the 1215 valley pan that I did not use. Would use them to seal the intake to the heads. Reason is so I can get a stethescope on to the liter bores. That is assuming I could reach them that is.

I know alot but look's like I have been real lucky with my other Mopars BB's. Never had bad wrist pins, bad cam, bad lifter or knock on starte up. Also the only BB I did not bulid.

                                            Cuda Ken, not giving up again.

[General_01]

Glad to hear you haven't given up Ken.

About not running a valley pan. Wouldn't that be like having a huge vacuum leak? I have never tried it so I can't say for sure if it would work or not, put I am guessing not. Can't help you out much. I haven't had a lot of experience rebuilding engines or checking for bad cams and such.

Good Luck. Sounds like you should have the engine figured out by next spring. Than you can go to the shows all summer next year instead of working on the car.

[Runner]

i think you cold easily run it with out the vally pan, but be prepared for a lot of oil every were.  wont have a vacuum leak though.

[Runner]

ken do you have broad ban internet? if so i can send you a video clip of an engine running that had a bad piston skirt, it wasnt broken but it had something go through the motor. i believe it was a bolt but it wedged between the piston and the head and bent the skirts in.

[firefighter3931]

Now the meat of the posting.

What is the best way to spot a bad cam lop, just at the apex of the lift or will there be a color change?

This is the tuff one, how do you spot a bad lifter?


                                                                 Cuda Ken, not giving up again.

Ken, if the cam is going south, the lobe will be rounding off and loosing it's peak. A weak lifter is more difficult to diagnose, but generally if it is collapsed the plunger will be low in the lifter body and stay there. Pulling the plugwires with the engine running won't eliminate the lifter noise because it's a mechanical issue pertaining to the valvetrain and most likely a weak lifter in this case. It's time to pull the intake and inspect the cam and lifters.

Ron

[Runner]

heres onew after i took the motor down.   this car is my sister in laws car that she bought from a friend of mine that in turn had bought it with a fairly fresh motor.   i thought it was   lifter but it wasnt.   

      heres   the first video

http://myweb.cableone.net/runner1971/rattle.mpg

[cudaken]

Messed with the POS today, can't say I have good new's but feeling just a little better, not a lot but a little.

Pulled the valve cover's and rockers and push rod look normal. (that is if you like over spary on them but that is a driffrent rant I posted a few weeks ago) Checked the bolts, and nothing backed out. Cranked her over and every thing looked normal. Button her back up.

Fired her up and something has changed, hear the tapping all the time now. Might be due to the fact I had the Runner's freash air cleaner on the 440, cover's a lot of the engine, it's off now.

Soon as she is off idle tapping is get's louder so that is driffrent as well. With her running I placed my hand on the fuel pump and felt nothing so I am 90% sure now it not the new pump. Started to pull wires and tapping sound never changed. Was told that if it was a bad wrist pin or broken skrit the tapping would stop or change. I did only pull the right side, will do the left later.

With the air cleaner off, the sound sounds like it is coming from under the intake. Sound's like a thin hollow sound. Not like a main or rod beating it self to death. Never heard a bad wrist pin or bad skirt.

Now the meat of the posting.

What is the best way to spot a bad cam lop, just at the apex of the lift or will there be a color change?

This is the tuff one, how do you spot a bad lifter?

Now the dumb question, is there any reason you cannot run the 440 with out the valley pan. Before you started thinking I am a real dumb ass, I have the paper gaskets that came with the 1215 valley pan that I did not use. Would use them to seal the intake to the heads. Reason is so I can get a stethescope on to the liter bores. That is assuming I could reach them that is.

I know alot but look's like I have been real lucky with my other Mopars BB's. Never had bad wrist pins, bad cam, bad lifter or knock on starte up. Also the only BB I did not bulid.

                                                                 Cuda Ken, not giving up again.

[cudaken]

 Guess you guys missed the part where I have the PAPER GASKETS to seal the intake to the heads. I am not as dumb as I spell.

Ron, if I pull the rockers will the plunger stay low or poop up?

[Runner]

ken here is a video of my sister inlaws car with the hurt skirt. sounds alot like a really loud lifter dont it.   i know you wont have a vacuum leak if you ran it with out the vally pan and the paper gaskets,  but alot of oil gets thrown around in that area. it is giong to make a mess.  ill go take a pic of a bad cam for ya right now

http://myweb.cableone.net/runner1971/rattle.mpg

[firefighter3931]

Guess you guys missed the part where I have the PAPER GASKETS to seal the intake to the heads. I am not as dumb as I spell.

Ron, if I pull the rockers will the plunger stay low or poop up?

I've seen them both ways....try pushing on the plunger with a pushrod....if it goes down real easy the lifter is bad. If it is allready in the recessed position it will be obvious as the plunger will be down. Sometimes the valveing in the lifter is defective.....this is one of the problems Dave (the Arrow) encountered with his engine. Two lifters collapsed and bent their respective pushrods....one pushrod was lying in the lifter valley and looked like a banana....45* bend halfway down.

Ron

[Runner]

ken here is a video of my sister inlaws car with the hurt skirt. sounds alot like a really loud lifter dont it.    i know you wont have a vacuum leak if you ran it with out the vally pan and the paper gaskets,   but alot of oil gets thrown around in that area. it is giong to make a mess.   ill go take a pic of a bad cam for ya right now

http://myweb.cableone.net/runner1971/rattle.mpg

[Runner]

bad cam pics

http://www.pbase.com/runner1971/image/50429894

http://www.pbase.com/runner1971/image/50429895

http://www.pbase.com/runner1971/image/50429896

http://www.pbase.com/runner1971/image/50429897

[cudaken]

 Just got of the phone with a friend that did have bad pin's. His sounded just like mine, hollow tapping sound but did go away some what when got warmer. Pulling the wires did make the nosie go away, guess I will do the other 4 Sunday.

Hell, take it out and run the shit out of the POS till something goes thought the F--k block, that way i will know what the F--k is wrong with the POS.

Guy's I am about done with this F--king Charger. Yes I have had good times with her, 62,000 miles worth but the trials and tribulations this thing has but me thought is mind boggling.

Few high lights.

Bought for $500 and was beat by friend's 318 on the way home (1988)
Head's and chain fixed the 318 problem and should never sold the BB.
Saved her the first time (good times) and made her Plum Crazy have seconds Monster Mopar weekend
Had 150 hours from the first save not counting motor work. R/T stands for Rusted Trash
Rusted in half and broke on 2-24-1995, my brithday. That was speical.
Replaced the rear half of the POS.
Then the ill fated Daytona Clone, could get the rest of the parts, sat a year watting for them.
Pulled the perfectly good BB for paint then ill fated 42sick. Should have keept the number match BB
Spent around 250 hours doing the dody work again, painted 2-24-2002 my brithday.
Spent 40 hours and count less dollar's on the 42sick, said F--k it and yanked and sold
First time I drove her in 5 years? Caught on fire and all most lost her. Should have pour gas on the POS.
Second time I drove her, hail storm. Was lucky with that one.
Painted the engine bay again after the fire.
Had 30 hours on the hood alone blocking to make perfect, fire took care of that! Why it's flat black!
Next, with blower $12,000.00 for blowen 440 engine.
Had the POS 440 rebulit 3 times and never started!
NOW THIS BULL SHIT

Guys, I have with my time well over $85,000.00 in this POS, out of pocket $40,000.00 and think I am just about wipped.

Guess the worst part, no more money to throw at her. Have been out of work for all most 2 months. Was shit canned do to the fact sales flat lined, there on manger number 3 now.

Sorry, just had to vent. For what ever reason my hope for grandeur are just about over.

Guess the worst part, my poor old 68 Runner is sitting out side watting for TLC she should be getting. Loved her sense I was 12 when Mon and Dad bought her new 37 years ago.

Sorry again.

                                                  ken   

[max]

if you are going to the trouble of pulling the intake and using the paper gaskets, i would go ahead and pull the rockers, push rods and lifters then check the cam and lifters while i had it that far down.

who knows maybe it is a bad lifter and since you have it that far down to start with it would be less work fixing it now then pulling it all back apart just to change them later.

[DFS68_Charger]

Those cam pics bring back some bad memories  .

Ken,

I don't know what to say.
Maybe we can do a simultaneous destruction of two big blocks tomorrow. .

If all goes well, I should be ready to crank her back up tomorrow.

DFS

[firefighter3931]

Well, if it turns out to be a pin problem then the engine obviously needs to be pulled. I have a hard time believing a pin went south allready but anything's possible. As far as i'm concerned it's the engine builders responsibility and should be covered under warranty. Assuming the pin is bad....it's an issue of improper assembly and clearances. That is the responsibility of the machine shop who built it.

Ron

[Chryco Psycho]

so what.... I have to get my ass to Mo now ?

[Ghoste]

If you're gonna start making house calls, I want to get my name on that list. 

[cudaken]

 Ron, which shop do  bitch at, first, second or the thrid one?

More than likely the first one is the blame. DFS and I where talking to each other Saturday. He and I both bet that never the 2nd or 3rd shop pooped the piston's off the rods. Rick, the 3rd bulider has yet to call me back. 1st shop, Mike's Machine shop is the one that did the block, but that was 2 year's ago. If you guy's where them, would you warranty a HP motor that was done 2 year's ago?


                   Ken

[Ghoste]

If they had the professionalism to stand behind the warranty after that much time, you wouldn't likely be in this mess.

[Chryco Psycho]

I make house call if you can cover the cost ... I am far from rich

[Ghoste]

Lol.  You need to add MD to the end of your user name for "Mopar Doctor" and instead of the little indicator saying "online", it should be "the Doctor is in". 

[Steve P.]

Neil, I told you that you should be a Rolls or Ferrari mechanic.. Those owners can afford to send you a ticket.. Hahaha.......  Neil Chryco, the Psycho Doctor...  It sort of has a ring to it!!


How about Doctor Psycho??   

Neil's deals on improving your wheels.....  Hehehehe...... 

Dr. Neil, the MOPAR psychologist..   

[Chryco Psycho]

I`ll get right on that just get some experience with Lamborghini , Porsche & Ferrari & fly everywhere
I actually came up with Chryco Psycho Restorations ... CPR

[Steve P.]

   I like that.. CPR  brings them back from the dead......