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Author Topic: Voltage regulators only lasting 2 to 4 weeks.  (Read 6825 times)
Charger-Bodie
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« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2008, 04:46:53 PM »

Call Don at FBO

http://4secondsflat.com/

I was having the same issues, went through 3 mechanical regulators in a year. Got one of his original looking regulators with modern electronic components inside and haven't had a problem since!!!
Cool, thanks, and thanks for all the info guys.   2thumbs

I'm wondering why I can't put something ( resistor ) in line of the field wiring?  I'll have to ask our electronics guy at work, to drop the amps form the 7 to 3ish?

Dont reinvent the wheel Rob, just buy the correct part and have it over with.
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68 Charger R/t white with black v/t and red tailstripe. 440 4 speed ,black interior
68 383 auto with a/c and power windows. Now 440 4 speed jj1 gold black interior .
My Charger is a hybrid car, it burns gas and rubber............
John_Kunkel
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« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2008, 03:44:53 PM »

Not to get into a pissing match with Mr Kunkel, but he is wrong on this one.

This is a quote from an article from Gary Hiede:

"The mechanical voltage regulator has a set of points inside that can only carry a limited amount of amperage.  Rotor coils in these draw about 2.3 amps and the alternator output was either 37 or 46 amps. 

That's what I said, my exact quote "The only thing that would cause premature failure of the points is a high current draw in the field circuit." which alludes to the fact that something is causing an abnormally high current draw in the fields. (higher than the normal 2.3 amps)

The postage stamp sized circuit boards in the newer replacement regulators might also fail if the current draw is too high.
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69fuchs
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« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2008, 07:27:01 PM »

The point I can't seem to convey is that I believe Rob has either a round back alternator with the newer rotor, or a square back alternator with one field grounded (the square back alt comes with the newer rotor).

 Many 1970 alternators had the round back with the newer rotor, and could easily be converted to a single field with a brush kit.  This is most likely where the problem comes from.

This does not work with the mechanical regulator.

 I have repaired this mistake on several cars over the years, and it is a very simple and inexpensive place to start troubleshooting.  Could there be a problem elsewhere? Absolutely.  But hey, why not do the easy things first?
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1969chargerrtse
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« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2008, 11:10:57 AM »

The point I can't seem to convey is that I believe Rob has either a round back alternator with the newer rotor, or a square back alternator with one field grounded (the square back alt comes with the newer rotor).

 Many 1970 alternators had the round back with the newer rotor, and could easily be converted to a single field with a brush kit.  This is most likely where the problem comes from.

This does not work with the mechanical regulator.

 I have repaired this mistake on several cars over the years, and it is a very simple and inexpensive place to start troubleshooting.  Could there be a problem elsewhere? Absolutely.  But hey, why not do the easy things first?
Here's the alt that came with the car.  I replaced it when the first VR went, so I believe the new one would look just like it.


* njhf.JPG (68.69 KB, 807x359 - viewed 456 times.)
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1969chargerrtse
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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2008, 06:47:43 PM »

Well, my two weeks is up, the regulator that was working perfect is now flickering.  Time for the solid state one in the old cover.
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1969chargerrtse
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« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2008, 10:14:46 AM »

Not to get into a pissing match with Mr Kunkel, but he is wrong on this one.

This is a quote from an article from Gary Hiede:

"The mechanical voltage regulator has a set of points inside that can only carry a limited amount of amperage.  Rotor coils in these draw about 2.3 amps and the alternator output was either 37 or 46 amps. 

   Rotor coils in later model chrysler alternators carried up to 7 amps of current.  If one of these should happen to be installed in an alternator using a mechanical voltage regulator it would burn out the points in short order."

This information comes from A&S rebuilders of sterling, Illinois.  They also have the original style regulator with modern electronic circuitry.

The article is old, so I can't tell you if they are still in business or not.  Here is the phone # 815 626 8949
Thanks but that number is disconnected.  I tried
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TUFCAT
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« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2008, 08:58:47 AM »

Rob, I sent you a PM.

Just FYI regarding the FBO voltage reg's.  When I ordered mine back in the spring, the guy said these would no longer be manufactured (so I purchased two) .....basically, "when they're gone, they're gone". I guess he wasn't kidding!   
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1969chargerrtse
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« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2008, 11:22:14 AM »

I really want to figure out how things work here and could use a little help.  First, thanks to Tuff Cat for the offer of the V reg.  I'd like to get the system working as original but if this becomes to hard to do I may have to go the electronic route.

O.K so here we go.  I put on ANOTHER point regulator and found why I smell something.  Seems after about 15 mins of running something under the v reg cover starts smoking?  I took the cover off and ran the car on an idle and can see the points make and break with a little spark.
What I want to know is how do I tell if I have a 70 rotor in this 69 single field alt?  Can someone please tell me what and where I have to ohm on the alt?  Would it be from the batt connection (large wire stud ) to ground on the case?  What would be the readings for the rotor on a 69 alt/ 70 alt?

Here's a picture of the alt as I just removed it.  Is there a way to see with my eyes the difference of a 70 rotor / a 69?

If I can get a handle on this I can return the alt and compare with what they have in stock. ( for no charge ). icon_smile_big


* jjwe.jpg (28.55 KB, 480x360 - viewed 435 times.)
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Silver R/T
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« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2008, 01:04:05 PM »

or you can put in one of these black ones, described in this thread
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,50243.0.html
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My Charger is hybrid, it runs on gas and on tears of ricers
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« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2008, 01:34:39 PM »

Rob, if you need my extra one ...just let me know.  I'll give you my "good buddy discount" - which is less than I paid.  cheers
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1969chargerrtse
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« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2008, 02:49:10 PM »

Rob, if you need my extra one ...just let me know.  I'll give you my "good buddy discount" - which is less than I paid.  cheers
O.K, thanks.  I just brought back my alt to pep boys and they will get me another one that I hope is correct for 69.  I would like to take you up on your offer,it would be a wise thing for the car right or wrong alt. I will PM you.  Thanks again.   
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1969chargerrtse
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« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2008, 03:04:07 PM »

or you can put in one of these black ones, described in this thread
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,50243.0.html
Thanks but I'm going with TUFCAT's offer as it will look original but be "modernized".
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John_Kunkel
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« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2008, 06:06:42 PM »

Here's a picture of the alt as I just removed it.  Is there a way to see with my eyes the difference of a 70 rotor / a 69?

From the '69 factory parts manual the rotor P/N is 2585175

From the '70-'71 factory parts manual the rotor P/N is 2585175
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1969chargerrtse
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« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2008, 08:32:05 PM »

Here's a picture of the alt as I just removed it.  Is there a way to see with my eyes the difference of a 70 rotor / a 69?

From the '69 factory parts manual the rotor P/N is 2585175

From the '70-'71 factory parts manual the rotor P/N is 2585175
Huh? Previous post talk about different rotors for the two years?  What the hey?
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Nacho-RT74
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« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2008, 01:37:47 PM »

[The windings in the rotor are different, they produce more energy and burn out the mechanical regulator in a short time. 

The rotor is the same, the difference is in the way the fields are externally wired.


I would like to be agree, but not completelly sure... I know 70 and laters rotors ( probably 69s too ) got higher resistance than earliers... maybe less coil turns ? shruggy. My rotor reads around 7-10 ohms as far I remember, but have read some earliers rotors reads around 4-6 ohms. Is something I have not tested myself, but have read about.

The points in the mechanical regulator cycle open and closed to produce a regulated voltage to excite one of the fields in the alternator, the other field is grounded to the case. The only thing that would cause premature failure of the points is a high current draw in the field circuit. This causes an arc as the points open and the continuous arcing is what fries the points.

The ammeter pegging could be caused by a low battery or it could be caused by a short somewhere in the electrical system. A short to ground will cause the alternator to overcharge in an attempt to supply the current that the short circuit is demanding. The electrical smell confirms that something is shorted.

iagree
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Venezuelan RT 74 400 4bbl, 727, 8.75 3.23 open. Now stroked with 440 crank and 3.55 SG. Here is the History and how is actually: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7603.0/all.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,25060.0.html
Nacho-RT74
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« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2008, 01:44:48 PM »

Rob if you have this alt on car that you posted:


Thats a dual field alt setup on a roundback alt what is as far I know a 70/71 alternator, what it was assemblied to be used either with mechanical or electronic regulator car setup. I think C bodies were the first cars got electronic regulator on those years and then on next years all the rest of car lines. And like has been told, being the alt carries the both isolated brushes setup maybe rotor could it be diff shruggy. However, John stated same PN for rotor on those years.

I guess if you have that brushes setup one of the brushes is grounded somehow, maybe with a metalic washer. I think I can see the washer on to the labeled GROUND brush, but not sure.

cars with mechanical regulators using that housing, got the brush directly bolted to housing at the oposite side... you can see the location for the grounded kind brush just right in front of also with the ground label.

anyway thats nothing to do with the problem, just ilustrating about.

Now about the problem itself... 69fusch it could be on the right way.

Not to get into a pissing match with Mr Kunkel, but he is wrong on this one.

This is a quote from an article from Gary Hiede:

"The mechanical voltage regulator has a set of points inside that can only carry a limited amount of amperage.  Rotor coils in these draw about 2.3 amps and the alternator output was either 37 or 46 amps. 

   Rotor coils in later model chrysler alternators carried up to 7 amps of current.  If one of these should happen to be installed in an alternator using a mechanical voltage regulator it would burn out the points in short order."

This information comes from A&S rebuilders of sterling, Illinois.  They also have the original style regulator with modern electronic circuitry.

The article is old, so I can't tell you if they are still in business or not.  Here is the phone # 815 626 8949

The point I can't seem to convey is that I believe Rob has either a round back alternator with the newer rotor, or a square back alternator with one field grounded (the square back alt comes with the newer rotor).

 Many 1970 alternators had the round back with the newer rotor, and could easily be converted to a single field with a brush kit.  This is most likely where the problem comes from.

This does not work with the mechanical regulator.

 I have repaired this mistake on several cars over the years, and it is a very simple and inexpensive place to start troubleshooting.  Could there be a problem elsewhere? Absolutely.  But hey, why not do the easy things first?

since you already have that alt, why not upgrade to the complete electronic setup? just need one extra wire, make one splice on the new wire, the pigtail to regulator and the terminal to the brush ( oh, yeah and the regulator LOL )... then tape it together. Of course isolate back the grounded brush

OR get an electronic regulator with old school look.

we are learning new stuff everyday.
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Venezuelan RT 74 400 4bbl, 727, 8.75 3.23 open. Now stroked with 440 crank and 3.55 SG. Here is the History and how is actually: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7603.0/all.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,25060.0.html
1969chargerrtse
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« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2008, 06:04:44 PM »

Rob if you have this alt on car that you posted:


Thats a dual field alt setup on a roundback alt what is as far I know a 70/71 alternator, what it was assemblied to be used either with mechanical or electronic regulator car setup. I think C bodies were the first cars got electronic regulator on those years and then on next years all the rest of car lines. And like has been told, being the alt carries the both isolated brushes setup maybe rotor could it be diff shruggy. However, John stated same PN for rotor on those years.

I guess if you have that brushes setup one of the brushes is grounded somehow, maybe with a metallic washer. I think I can see the washer on to the labeled GROUND brush, but not sure.

cars with mechanical regulators using that housing, got the brush directly bolted to housing at the opposite side... you can see the location for the grounded kind brush just right in front of also with the ground label.

anyway that's nothing to do with the problem, just illustrating about.

Now about the problem itself... 69fusch it could be on the right way.

Not to get into a pissing match with Mr Kunkel, but he is wrong on this one.

This is a quote from an article from Gary Hiede:

"The mechanical voltage regulator has a set of points inside that can only carry a limited amount of amperage.  Rotor coils in these draw about 2.3 amps and the alternator output was either 37 or 46 amps. 

  Rotor coils in later model Chrysler alternators carried up to 7 amps of current.  If one of these should happen to be installed in an alternator using a mechanical voltage regulator it would burn out the points in short order."

This information comes from A&S re builders of sterling, Illinois.  They also have the original style regulator with modern electronic circuitry.

The article is old, so I can't tell you if they are still in business or not.  Here is the phone # 815 626 8949

The point I can't seem to convey is that I believe Rob has either a round back alternator with the newer rotor, or a square back alternator with one field grounded (the square back alt comes with the newer rotor).

 Many 1970 alternators had the round back with the newer rotor, and could easily be converted to a single field with a brush kit.  This is most likely where the problem comes from.

This does not work with the mechanical regulator.

 I have repaired this mistake on several cars over the years, and it is a very simple and inexpensive place to start troubleshooting.  Could there be a problem elsewhere? Absolutely.  But hey, why not do the easy things first?

since you already have that alt, why not upgrade to the complete electronic setup? just need one extra wire, make one splice on the new wire, the pigtail to regulator and the terminal to the brush ( oh, yeah and the regulator LOL )... then tape it together. Of course isolate back the grounded brush

OR get an electronic regulator with old school look.

we are learning new stuff everyday.
Thanks for all your help guys.  I am getting the electronic reg thru TUFCAT of who was kind enough to not only sell it to me, but at a lost and with shipping!  What a guy. 2thumbs
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1969chargerrtse
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« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2008, 03:46:55 PM »

A big thank you to TUFCAT as I got the electronic regulator he mailed out asap for me. 2thumbs  Now I can enjoy the holiday by making all my little errand trips this holiday week and weekend.  It works steady and fine, if it burns up also in a few weeks, then I have already located a correct 69 single field alt an I'll mount that one on, and go back to the points.


* gsdrst.jpg (20.59 KB, 640x480 - viewed 301 times.)
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TUFCAT
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« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2008, 10:12:10 AM »

I'm just glad that I could help a buddy.   cheers
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