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Author Topic: Oldcarnut's Superbird Clone  (Read 49271 times)
oldcarnut
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« on: February 14, 2009, 11:11:30 AM »

Finally I have knocked a few home projects out of the way and can start working on my Road Runner project-even if a little at the time  boogie   I've been watching and reading about other projects getting worked on and wondering if I was ever going to get time for mine.  So here's the start of my thread.  I bought my RR out of Yantis, Texas.  On the bad side I was told it would barely run,  wouldn't hold oil pressure, had a bad rear end, interior was shot, and the body had dents and rust.  On the plus side, I was told it had been in the same family since new, had original paint, and still had the build sheet and most all the original parts.  I saw a few pics of it when it was on EBAY but it didn't sell so I sent an email and a deal was made and shipped here to SC.  First time I ever bought car that I didn't see first hand and paid for it without having it in my possession. If you recognise it let me know.  I don't have much history on it other than the family owned bit. Since then I've been collecting parts to make the transformation.   I want to get it running and driving good mechanically and safely as it is before I start any major work.  Have done a little already and plan on getting some more out this weekend.  I've read the opinions about others using a real RR for a clone but that's what I bought it for and going to do.  Most likely will keep all the original stuff removed to stay with the car. Already have Ted's kit, Daytonalo's A-Pillars, Coronet hood and fenders, decals, and some misc.  I can't afford a real one and have wanted one since high school in the 70's. This won't be an exact replication as I have some custom ideas about some things interior and paint wise.   I hope to get the overall appearance right with a slight Nascar theme but all subject to change as it developes.  I'll be asking for some help and also hope to offer some ideas of my own.   I just pray my job situation survives the current economics, as it's been a little rough, so I can stay on it.  Here's some of the before pics I'm starting with.  


* RRC1.JPG (108.77 KB, 640x480 - viewed 3354 times.)

* RRC2.JPG (117.36 KB, 640x480 - viewed 3366 times.)

* RRC3.JPG (117.74 KB, 640x480 - viewed 3342 times.)

* RRC4.JPG (114.93 KB, 640x480 - viewed 3320 times.)
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oldcarnut
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 11:15:37 AM »

More pics and one of what I'm thinking of painting it in some variation or another.


* RRC5.JPG (115.08 KB, 640x480 - viewed 3347 times.)

* RRC7.JPG (114.04 KB, 640x480 - viewed 3376 times.)

* RWB.jpg (131.1 KB, 800x531 - viewed 3352 times.)
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tan top
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69 R/T SE -A47-Y2-CRX-V1T-V88


« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 12:08:51 PM »

looks pretty straight from the pictures  yesnod ..sounds like a  great project .... keep the pictures coming as & when  popcrn 2thumbs
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BigBlockSam
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 12:25:23 PM »

Quote
keep the pictures coming

looks like a great project.   cheers 

it makes it  a little easier if you start with a solid car .


 it's good  to see some new replica projects getting started .  2thumbs
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 12:27:51 PM »

Slost Mags... drool5 drool5 drool5 drool5 drool5
Looks like a sweet project. 2thumbs 2thumbs 2thumbs
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hotrod98
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2009, 01:01:09 PM »

I'm all for using a real roadrunner. Saves a lot of time trying to locate the correct stuff such as the dash, taillights, etc. We've been trying to buy a real roadrunner here locally to build our clone instead of using the satellite. That's why we've been a little slow getting started on that project.
Can't wait until you get this one finished.  2thumbs
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Charles Addams
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2009, 04:45:05 PM »

 cheers popcrn 2thumbs
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sound5262
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2009, 05:10:39 PM »

hey i'm in the same process myself. hopefully the hood as well as the kit from ted will be in this week. i'm going with a coronet r/t hood, i think that is going to look really good when its on. going to change up the painting a little. good luck with your clone, if you need some help on some parts let me know. steve
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oldcarnut
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2009, 09:03:16 PM »

Thanks all  cheers  I was expecting more rust than it had.  From what I've seen so far there is just a very small piece at one of the rear window corners and a small amount at the very bottom of the lower qtrs.  The trunk, floors, doors, and under the hood I was pleasantly surprised to find very little.  It had more dings and dents than I expected and I didn't know the front windshield was cracked pretty good but it doesn't appear to be leaking through. Already bought a new one.  Sorry Wingy but I let the slots go with the 70 Challenger I sold to help pay for Ted's parts.  I did keep the new 15" re-pop rallies from the Chally for it.  Today I finished the brake installation-- new rotor/wheel hubs, wheel bearings, F&R flex brake lines, calipers, and pads.  Gotta make sure it stops.  Changed the carb, rubber fuel lines, and a new pump.  Mice had eaten through some of the spark wires so I had replaced the bad ones and ordered a new set of Accels.  Found a few weeks ago the oil pressure problem was from the oil screen clogged with broken plastic timing gear pieces and a bad sending unit.  Put in a new melling oil pump and now have continuous good oil pressure  thumbs.  It also runs decent and quiet but needs a tuneup as it has a slight miss and skip but has no unusual internal noise.  Just a little smoke. All that was a relief as now I feel I don't have major engine work to do.  I have a potential deal on a 440-6 motor (a 73 non hp eng but complete from cleaner to tranny) so the 383 will do for now for driving I hope.  Added a couple qts of tranny fluid and drove it up the street and back. Shifted fine and nothing drastic out the rear end so all is good for now.  Battery went bad cranking it so tommorrow its back to the autoparts place for a battery, cap, plugs, points, rotor button, then for a better test drive drive.


* RRC8A.JPG (111.64 KB, 640x480 - viewed 3196 times.)

* RRC9A.JPG (113.32 KB, 640x480 - viewed 3212 times.)

* RRC10A.JPG (111.11 KB, 640x480 - viewed 3176 times.)

* RRC111.jpg (65.27 KB, 640x480 - viewed 3152 times.)
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oldcarnut
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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2009, 11:13:01 PM »

Got a few more misc. things done with it enough to take it out on the road for higher speeds.  Heard the noise what the previous owner said was occurring out the rear somewhere.  Not a whine but more of a growling. Took the driveshaft off to check the universals only to find them very stiff or almost locked up.  Didn't eliminate the noise but just moved it up about 8mph to 40 mph before I heard it again. Fades out when I let off the gas or apply brakes.  I hope to pull out the axle assys. and the 3.55 suregrip to check it more.  With it up on jacks and supported I can run it up to 60-70 and it makes no noise and runs smooth.  Turning the chunk by hand when the shaft was off felt smooth too.  Good thing is that the more I drive it or run it, the better the engine seems to be improving.  I put a can of something called seafoam additive in the crankcase to clean it out some and must be working.  Even the smoking is getting lighter.  Anyway I posted a pic of the mufflers that are on it.  Both are bent up exactly the same way and look like its supposed to be like that but I haven't figured out why. 


* mufflers1.JPG (121.49 KB, 806x605 - viewed 3052 times.)
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nitrometal
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2009, 08:40:35 AM »

Oldcarnut,

I hope that your finished product looks like the envisioned picture. That will be one unique and sharp looking 'bird!   drool5  Did you do that drawing?

Phil
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oldcarnut
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2009, 09:32:08 AM »

Thanks, DS440 did it for me on the photoshop thread.  I'm still thinkng about what to do for the interior but haven't put it all togethor yet.  Mostly trying to get the car in dependable shape first then I'll start the conversion.  I want to make a stand for the nose and get it assembled.  A bunch of work to do came up for a rental property I have so it's slowing things down a bit.  .
David
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hotrod98
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2009, 10:01:17 AM »

The absolute best modern seat to use is the Sebring convertible seat. It's a mopar product, relatively cheap, has the built in seatbelts and most are leather and have lumbar and power. We're thinking about using the Sebring convertible seats in our clone mainly for the comfort issue on long distance trips.
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oldcarnut
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2009, 03:53:57 PM »

Can someone verify these measurements for me.  I used Dave's template at PG to lay it out the holes for the qtrs. and compared it with the one TJ sent me and they are both off a litlle from each other and the studs but mainly in wing width of the gasket holes.  When I placed the wing on to check the stud placements, it was off just a little as each stud was not always centered in each gasket hole but some closer to the edge.  What size holes are drilled in the qtrs.? If they are the same size as the gasket holes then I think they'll fit ok with just a little rub on one side or another or should I leave the location as is and let the drilled holes maybe just remove a little gasket material to the side ?

I went ahead and tried the gaskets on the wing and they rub on the studs some but center up on the upright base.  Looks like some of the studs aren't  very straight so if the location is good then I'll just have offset the drilled holes a little to compensate for the stud angles.


* WingMeas1.jpg (69.33 KB, 800x600 - viewed 2989 times.)

* Wingmeas2.jpg (68.98 KB, 800x600 - viewed 2940 times.)
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FJ5WING
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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2009, 04:45:43 PM »

It seemed to me your template was too close to the outside edge so I went and measured mine since I recently removed my wing and have yet to haul the hulk off to the body shop.

I was correct, My wing edge was 3/4" from the outside edge. The measurements to the rear look good!

Do you have the under wing supports yet? They will be the same size hole you need in the quarter. The original installers did a marginal job on my car as I had to fight  RantExplode to get the wing off due to stud threads hanging on sheet metal. flame

Hope this helps!...................and its not too late! smilielol
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hotrod98
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« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2009, 05:13:45 PM »

For what it's worth, it's risky drilling any holes without checking with the wing fully assembled and set in place. I lay out a general location pattern like you're doing , then tape out the entire area. I then set the wing in place with someone's help and mark the locations using a fine tip marker. Each wing is a little diffferent. I always have to open up the holes in the gasket a little to make it fit correctly onto the base of the wing. The most important dimension is the distance from the rear edge of the wing to the rear of the quarter. The side edge dimension will rely on your wing. You can pull them in or out a little, but if you go too far, the wing won't sit flat on the quarter. Don't forget to put sealant (I use 3M black caulk strips) around the studs on top of the quarter and between the quarter and wing washer. Don't rely on the gasket to keep water out. Wish I was there to help out.
I don't remember the distance from the rear of the wing to the rear of the quarter. Dain bramage.
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oldcarnut
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« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2009, 05:31:33 PM »

Thanks, I haven't drilled them yet. I can slide the 1/2" to about 3/4" and keep the rear 2" centerline if that's what your saying.  The black pieces are the gaskets.  I had a cut out piece of thick paper for the templet. I switched the L @ R sides for the gaskets and remeasured to 3/4 at the closet point. I mainly used those to make sure as a guide to have the wing going straight forward.  Set the wing back up and it seemed to fit ok to the studs.  I have the wing bolted tight together so the uprights don't flex in or out. The wing is a little awkward to handle like that for mounting by myself.  Got the wife to help me set it up one time before she left to work.  In the process she let it slip when started to lift  scared but it fell on the studs and nothing was hurt.  The wing washers haven't been drilled yet.  I"ll mount those and drill them using the other holes. I won't get too uptight about the side dimension as long as the wing is bolted together and its the same both sides when I layout it out and its straight. The 3/4 seems to work out for guide purposes Thanks for the tips, David
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hotrod98
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« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2009, 06:43:24 PM »

I waited until I was satisfied with how the wing fit into the newly drilled holes and then removed the wing. I marked a centerline on the wing washer to show where it should align up under the quarter to the rear stud. After finding the right spot for it under the quarter, looking at the centerline through the rear hole. I then marked all of the holes on the wing washer. From start to finish, I installed the wing, the wing washers and the wing braces in about two hours. This is the fourth one that I've done now, so they're getting easier.
Can't wait to see pics. You're going to be so psyched when you stand back and look at that wing when it's all bolted down.
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« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2009, 09:15:41 PM »

I'm going to back up a tad with a little update.  I replaced the axle bearings/seals and the rearend noise has been fixed.  The bearings that were in it were dry and had heat coloring.  While I had the tires off  I saw that I had 1 1/2" exhaust on one side and 2" on the other.  Why someone did that I don't know.  Also changed the left side to rh thds.  Got it back on the road and the brakes just didn't feel right. The master cylinder would empty after a while so I pulled it off to find the brake booster full of brake fluid.  The intake also had been sucking brake fluid down through the booster vacuum line.  I'm hoping that's what some of the exhaust smoke and a couple other issues were from.  Got a new mstr cyl. and booster to put on it but got fixated on the wing.  The booster came in different than the oem (another thread) but I reckon I'll put it on later this weekend or so anyway so that's all the braking gone through except new steel lines.  Here's a few pics of the wing build so far for those that may go through it later.  The wing bolt holes from Janak are filled with alum and glass in the uprights and have to be drilled to size.  If not carefull it's not too hard to get them off center. It make a difference on how level the center section is with the uprights.  I took the lumps and filed them down first to get a good flat surface and a center.  I stepped drilled them up to 7/16" checking both sides to make sure they were parallel to the center wing as I went. I thought the threads were supposed to be 7/16-20 but the center section  had 7/16-14 thds cut in them.  I drilled it to the right tap size for 7/16-20 and re-tapped them.  After assy. everything came out real good.  Layout for the qtr mounts were next.  In addition to what was done earlier I ended up making a direct cardboard template of the bottom wing studs to get the drill holes right. It sure took me longer than 2 hours but it was a learning experience.  I haven't done the qtr. wing washer under side but it sure was a rush to see a partial wing car in the garage  icon_smile_big  Someone had long time before I got put the wing emblem without the Superbird letters on roof panel.  Must have been an omen of things to come  yesnod  Enough typing and need to get to the booster. Here's a couple pics of the wing before drilling.


* Unfinished1.jpg (60.89 KB, 800x600 - viewed 2860 times.)

* Center_Hole1.jpg (70.38 KB, 800x600 - viewed 2916 times.)
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oldcarnut
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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2009, 09:17:54 PM »

A couple more of it bolted togethor after drilling and re-tapping the center section to 7/16-20


* Wingfit1.JPG (54.22 KB, 800x600 - viewed 2871 times.)

* Wingfit2.jpg (95.62 KB, 800x600 - viewed 2864 times.)
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oldcarnut
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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2009, 09:23:02 PM »

Wing just sitting unbolted  drool5.  Hope it looks right.


* Sidewing2.jpg (80.9 KB, 800x600 - viewed 3027 times.)

* Sidewing1.jpg (80.06 KB, 800x600 - viewed 2788 times.)
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oldcarnut
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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2009, 09:25:34 PM »

Now for a question.  Is the trunk lid supposed to clear the wing like this?  Everything was mounted using the location templates I got from Janak and Perf Graphics.  I got the stops for the hinges to put on but I thought it because of the trunk lid contacting the wing and catching the fingers.


* Trunk_Clearance.jpg (65.53 KB, 800x600 - viewed 2766 times.)
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pettybird
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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2009, 10:12:46 PM »

no--they clear like that.  find someone around you with a Daytona, open the trunklid as far as you can with your arm under the wing and it'll be painfully obvious why they used stops.   lol
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hotrod98
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« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2009, 10:36:14 PM »

AND DON'T LEAVE THE KEYS IN THE LOCK CYLINDER!!!!
I was just told a couple of days ago that the main reason for the stops was to keep the front of the deck lid from hitting the plug. I don't have that problem on my 69 for some reason.  Grin
My wing clears with less than an inch of clearance. Looks like you did a good job there.  2thumbs
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Charles Addams
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« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2009, 04:32:03 PM »

the keys dont go in the deck lid on 70's.

I was always led to believe the reason for the stops was the wing/lid clearence, iv only recently heard about clearence around the window. it dosent look like it would make a difference, but then again the lid cleared the wing too in posted pic. shruggy
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