DodgeCharger.com Forum
January 27, 2023, 02:44:12 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: I have updated the list of DodgeCharger.com shirts!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Login Register Chat  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Superbird fender tag missing- value lost?  (Read 6134 times)
1RareBird
Junior Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 112


« on: June 12, 2009, 12:45:18 PM »

How important is not having a fender tag or build sheet for a bird and just how much does it hurt the value?  Trying to help a friend out on a potential purchase where the tag has been "misplaced"  Thanks!
Logged

When I die I want to go like my Grandfather did, quietly in his sleep.  Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Ghoste
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 41,092



« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 12:56:10 PM »

With a car like a Superbird it certainly affects the value to not be able to prove the pedigree.  Is he buying it as an investment or for the joy of driving a wing car?
Logged

1RareBird
Junior Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 112


« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2009, 12:58:43 PM »

Both, but mostly as an invesment.  I know there is a list of superbird vins and can document it as one but how much less is the car worth without it?
Logged

When I die I want to go like my Grandfather did, quietly in his sleep.  Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
moparstuart
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 27,582


Kansas Mafia Member , Overland park Ks.


« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2009, 01:05:00 PM »

Both, but mostly as an invesment.  I know there is a list of superbird vins and can document it as one but how much less is the car worth without it?
there are several places that will make him a tag .  It will only be so accurate being you can only go by how the car is now .


Logged

GO SELL CRAZY SOMEWHERE ELSE WE ARE ALL STOCKED UP HERE
4spdwing
Junior Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 104



« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2009, 01:39:53 PM »

Does the car have the buildsheet? My car has a build sheet but a repro fender tag.
Logged

440 4bbl 4spd Superbird  383 Auto Dart GTSport
1RareBird
Junior Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 112


« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2009, 02:25:02 PM »

No build sheet, apparently mice got to it.  He's looked everywhere for it and said he found the small remains in the back seat.
Logged

When I die I want to go like my Grandfather did, quietly in his sleep.  Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
pettybird
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,307



« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2009, 03:13:14 PM »

is there anything super special about the car, or is it a plain jane car? 

Superbirds only came so many ways.  it does affect the value, but like the lemon twist car with the black bench that just sold no one's going to fake that. 

Logged
1970Moparmann
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,582



« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2009, 03:18:41 PM »

Here's the deal.  Galen Govier (numbers guru) will make a fender tag if the car is still original, and there's proof the car in it's original condition.  With this said, if there is documentation of photos of it being what it is, he would most likely make a fender tag.  If the original owner is still around, this will also help.  Galen will charge some money, but it would be worth it.  Based on it being a "Bird", it should be a lot easier to get the information.  Also, have the present owner check again for another build sheet.  Under carpet/under dash/behind Glovebox/in seat springs.....  Check the body panels for matching numbers first.  If these match, good news.  Check the engine/trans next.  I wouldn't doubt if Galen, or someone from a Wing club can get the info on the car based on the VIN tag.   See if it's registered also.....

Good luck. cheers
Logged

My name is Mike and I'm a Moparholic!
nascarxx29
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12,151


« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2009, 04:27:19 PM »

A friends yellow superbird recently just sold missing the same 2 items buildsheet and fender tag .There are many ways to identify a superbird as legit.If you know certain details.So I dont think it devalues the car that much.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,57448.0.html
Logged

1969 R4 Daytona XX29L9B410772
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23UOA174597
1970 FY1 Superbird RM23UOA166242
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23VOA179697
1968 426 Road Runner RM21J8A134509
1970 Coronet RT WS23UOA224126
1970 Daytona Clone XP29GOG178701
nascarxx29
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12,151


« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2009, 04:35:55 PM »

Here's the deal.  Galen Govier (numbers guru) will make a fender tag if the car is still original, and there's proof the car in it's original condition.  With this said, if there is documentation of photos of it being what it is, he would most likely make a fender tag.  If the original owner is still around, this will also help.  Galen will charge some money, but it would be worth it.  Based on it being a "Bird", it should be a lot easier to get the information.  Also, have the present owner check again for another build sheet.  Under carpet/under dash/behind Glovebox/in seat springs.....  Check the body panels for matching numbers first.  If these match, good news.  Check the engine/trans next.  I wouldn't doubt if Galen, or someone from a Wing club can get the info on the car based on the VIN tag.   See if it's registered also.....

Good luck. cheers

You might find the buildsheet under front bench seat.And on a friends 70 GTX I was pushing on the burlap and sheet was on the backside of the burlap
Logged

1969 R4 Daytona XX29L9B410772
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23UOA174597
1970 FY1 Superbird RM23UOA166242
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23VOA179697
1968 426 Road Runner RM21J8A134509
1970 Coronet RT WS23UOA224126
1970 Daytona Clone XP29GOG178701
Ghoste
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 41,092



« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2009, 05:10:46 PM »

I don't think Galen actually makes them does he, isn't he just a middle man for one of the other places?
Logged

hotrod98
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,201


www.maniacmusclecars.com


WWW
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2009, 05:30:33 PM »

If Galen's making fender tags...that's news to me.
Logged



Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.
Charles Addams
maxwellwedge
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,947



« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2009, 05:44:52 PM »

Nah - He jobs them out.
Logged
62 Max
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,387



« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2009, 06:43:37 PM »

Nah - He jobs them out.


And collects his chunk of $$$$$$$$$$ for doing nothing!
Logged
1970Moparmann
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,582



« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2009, 07:14:18 PM »

I don't think Galen actually makes them does he, isn't he just a middle man for one of the other places?

Not sure, but have seen one and it looked really good! 2thumbs
Logged

My name is Mike and I'm a Moparholic!
hotrod98
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,201


www.maniacmusclecars.com


WWW
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2009, 07:49:50 PM »

Nah - He jobs them out.


And collects his chunk of $$$$$$$$$$ for doing nothing!

Sort of like George W.  icon_smile_big
Logged



Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.
Charles Addams
Ghoste
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 41,092



« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2009, 09:43:08 PM »

In any case I still think that for the most part if you buy a car like a Superbird or a Shelby or a Yenko or whatever as an investment, my experience has been that the better the paper trail the higher value people place on the car and the easier it is to sell.
Logged

1970Moparmann
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,582



« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2009, 09:47:17 PM »

Nah - He jobs them out.


And collects his chunk of $$$$$$$$$$ for doing nothing!

Sort of like George W.  icon_smile_big

Don't get me started! hah RantExplode nana
Logged

My name is Mike and I'm a Moparholic!
hemi68charger
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12,775


Winged Duo..


« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2009, 05:44:45 AM »

Not sure how an accurate fender tag can be made if the VON (Vehicle Order Number) isn't known. The Scheduled Production date can be approximated, but isn't there a span of a couple of days Superbirds were made? Guess you could find statistics on 'Birds with sequence numbers on either side and make an educated guess, but the Vehicle Order Number would be tricky. This information is needed from the broadcast sheet.

Troy
Logged

Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Superbird 426 Hemi auto: Lindsley Bonneville Salt Flat world record holder (220.2mph)
Houston Mopar Club Connection
mikepmcs
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7,718


Maine " THE ROAD TO NOWHERE LEADS TO ME "


WWW
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2009, 06:02:43 AM »



You might find the buildsheet under front bench seat.And on a friends 70 GTX I was pushing on the burlap and sheet was on the backside of the burlap

Or under the carpet like one member here just discovered.

On a different note, here are my thoughts.  It would not have any effect on me personally as a buyer as long as it checked out numbers wise.  I only say that to assume I was looking for a numbers car.  I would drive a clone or non numbers car as well.....my only point being whatever it is, is priced accordingly and not trying to be passed off as something it is not.  If you can prove its authenticity then it is worth whatever any other bird is to most people.  I will not argue that it would be worth more with a piece of paper and a fender tag  to certain people as well.....just not to me.  If he's planning on keeping it it doesn't matter, if he's planning on flipping it, it might matter is he's looking to make bank.

http://www.trimtags.com/     

http://www.datatags.com/

and if you want to pad GG's pockets for whatever reason

http://www.gvgovier.com/fendertag.htm
Logged

Life isn't Father Knows Best anymore, it's a kick in the face on a saturday night with a steel toed grip kodiak work boot and a trip to the hospital all bloodied and bashed.....for reconstructive surgery. But, what doesn't kill us, makes us stronger, right?
nascarxx29
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12,151


« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2009, 06:05:48 AM »

How would you guess and recreate the very top leftside of the tag numbers.I think they call them gate or metal shop numbers?
 .
Logged

1969 R4 Daytona XX29L9B410772
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23UOA174597
1970 FY1 Superbird RM23UOA166242
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23VOA179697
1968 426 Road Runner RM21J8A134509
1970 Coronet RT WS23UOA224126
1970 Daytona Clone XP29GOG178701
69CoronetRT
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,915



« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2009, 06:51:05 AM »

How would you guess and recreate the very top leftside of the tag numbers.I think they call them gate or metal shop numbers?

That's not that hard to determine. This would be the easiest part.

(Why does that 70 LR tag have a bent corner scratchchin)

Quote
Not sure how an accurate fender tag can be made if the VON (Vehicle Order Number) isn't known. The Scheduled Production date can be approximated, but isn't there a span of a couple of days Superbirds were made? Guess you could find statistics on 'Birds with sequence numbers on either side and make an educated guess, but the Vehicle Order Number would be tricky.

All SB's have a B30 SPD.
You could come up with a VON that looks correct and close but it would be a guess without the BS.
Logged

Seeking information on '69 St. Louis plant VINs, SPDs and VONs. Buld sheets and tag pictures appreciated. Over 3,000 on file thanks to people like you.
hemi68charger
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12,775


Winged Duo..


« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2009, 08:14:34 AM »

How would you guess and recreate the very top leftside of the tag numbers.I think they call them gate or metal shop numbers?

That's not that hard to determine. This would be the easiest part.

(Why does that 70 LR tag have a bent corner scratchchin)

Quote
Not sure how an accurate fender tag can be made if the VON (Vehicle Order Number) isn't known. The Scheduled Production date can be approximated, but isn't there a span of a couple of days Superbirds were made? Guess you could find statistics on 'Birds with sequence numbers on either side and make an educated guess, but the Vehicle Order Number would be tricky.

All SB's have a B30 SPD.
You could come up with a VON that looks correct and close but it would be a guess without the BS.

That's good info on the SPD..   2thumbs
The bent corner more than likely is when the tag was attached with the left screw and bent up for any inspection stampings. Then, late the other non-painted attachment screw was attached.
Logged

Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Superbird 426 Hemi auto: Lindsley Bonneville Salt Flat world record holder (220.2mph)
Houston Mopar Club Connection
Ghoste
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 41,092



« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2009, 08:55:41 AM »

Yeah, you see quite a few bent up there.
Logged

Redbird
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 569


« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2009, 09:16:14 AM »

A Superbird tag is about the easiest tag to predict how it will look.

Gate #, 5#'s, almost every car starts with 29xxx, 15xxx, 05xxx, I've seen a couple of exceptions but those 3 numbers seem to identify the Gate the car went through. Next 3 #'s, are which # the specific car went through through the gate that day-lets say gate # 15xxx, starting with 100.  It's usually under 160 so xx101 to xx160 (here there are higher #'s on exception.

Contrary to Nascarxx29's picture, which must have been a factory mistake, the next # is a 6 # sequence. If you have a couple of hundred tags on file it's pretty easy to approximate a close # or see if the # is way off.

Second to bottom line, J#. Again if you have a couple of hundred tag #'s you'll get pretty close here.

Everyone has a B30 date. V19, V88. 26 for radiator.

All the rest of the tags are completely predictable and laid out exactly the same. All you have to do is plug in the codes for the engine, trans, bench/bucket, exterior/interior color, if it had a console.

Just about anyone could predict what the tag should look like with the most minor study.

Then there is the Inspectors stamp and getting the font right.




Logged
Ghoste
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 41,092



« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2009, 09:22:11 AM »

So what percentage would you assign as a chance of error?
Logged

lucaslaw
New Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24


« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2009, 09:33:20 AM »


And collects his chunk of $$$$$$$$$$ for doing nothing!
[/quote]

Sort of like George W.  icon_smile_big
[/quote]

 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Saw him in Dallas at a restaurant the other night having his wife cut his meat for him

 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
Logged
lucaslaw
New Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24


« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2009, 09:41:23 AM »

If you have #s matching running gear pull date of manufacture from that, should get you close.  My '70, no tag, (but I think I have it located  cheers) has original engine/trans, date code of 11/69 which would make it a mid year 1970 I believe, previous cars I've owned had a fender code date a month or so after engine build date.

LL  shortbus
Logged
nascarxx29
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12,151


« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2009, 10:52:02 AM »

This tag doesnt seem to show bent inspector corner but was a stamped 4 upside
Logged

1969 R4 Daytona XX29L9B410772
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23UOA174597
1970 FY1 Superbird RM23UOA166242
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23VOA179697
1968 426 Road Runner RM21J8A134509
1970 Coronet RT WS23UOA224126
1970 Daytona Clone XP29GOG178701
maxwellwedge
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,947



« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2009, 11:24:36 AM »

Bird tags aren't painted (none of my original stuff anyway)....A lot of Lynch Road Muscle Era tags were unpainted. Any paint on them would be overspray - they were un-attached and hanging on a piece of the car.


* birdtag-s.JPG (164.7 KB, 739x473 - viewed 432 times.)
Logged
maxwellwedge
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,947



« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2009, 11:30:50 AM »

This tag doesnt seem to show bent inspector corner but was a stamped 4 upside

Dave - unscrew that tag and see if it's painted underneath.
Logged
nascarxx29
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12,151


« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2009, 11:45:58 AM »

Good idea and also to see how much rust has accumulated underneath of it.The tag I believe was known to be on a paperclip hanging from the rear view mirror on the assembly line
Logged

1969 R4 Daytona XX29L9B410772
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23UOA174597
1970 FY1 Superbird RM23UOA166242
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23VOA179697
1968 426 Road Runner RM21J8A134509
1970 Coronet RT WS23UOA224126
1970 Daytona Clone XP29GOG178701
69CoronetRT
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,915



« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2009, 06:57:19 PM »

Yeah, you see quite a few bent up there.

Depending on the plant....

From what I've seen, 70 LR tags are not bent. Twocents
Logged

Seeking information on '69 St. Louis plant VINs, SPDs and VONs. Buld sheets and tag pictures appreciated. Over 3,000 on file thanks to people like you.
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.085 seconds with 17 queries.