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Author Topic: Buddy Bakers Daytona  (Read 101329 times)
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« on: November 08, 2009, 05:09:07 AM »

 saw this over on moparts  drool5 drool5 yesnod  

 http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5591860&an=0&page=0
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bruce kepley
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2009, 07:20:36 AM »

Thanks for the link...bk
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moparstuart
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2009, 07:20:48 AM »

very cool   drool5 drool5 drool5 drool5 drool5
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nascarxx29
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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2009, 06:27:36 PM »

http://www.gogearhead.com/69Daytonaracecar/index.html
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1969 R4 Daytona XX29L9B410772
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23UOA174597
1970 FY1 Superbird RM23UOA166242
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23VOA179697
1968 426 Road Runner RM21J8A134509
1970 Coronet RT WS23UOA224126
1970 Daytona Clone XP29GOG178701
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69 R/T SE -A47-Y2-CRX-V1T-V88


« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2009, 06:33:09 PM »



 coolgleamA  good link   drool5 ............... 2thumbs
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2009, 08:23:05 PM »

Thanks for the link...
If I was to ever duplicate/clone out a race Daytona, that would be it... It's SOO SOO cool.... 2thumbs

Troy
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Troy
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 12:02:51 AM »

This is my favorite wing aero paint scheme.  I told mom that if we got sick of Marty being pink we could paint him up as this or the Marcis car and save the signatures on our yellow wing.
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Aero426
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 08:58:12 AM »

The history on this particular car seems to be slowly being rewritten.
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hemigeno
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2009, 08:58:59 AM »

The history on this particular car seems to be slowly being rewritten.

I kinda thought the same thing too rotz
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moparstuart
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 09:00:11 AM »

The history on this particular car seems to be slowly being rewritten.

I kinda thought the same thing too rotz
please enlighten us    popcrn popcrn popcrn popcrn popcrn popcrn
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hemigeno
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 09:26:24 AM »

Doug knows a lot more than I do about the situation, but suffice it to say that the "race" history of this car in Daytona trim might be hard to verify if the car was being used by Chrysler as part of the 1970 new car show circuit.  Cotton definitely built the car, but for whom and for what purpose - that's what is being re-written.

 Twocents
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UFO
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 09:54:44 AM »

So that car and this one in this pic that is said to be from the 71 Chicago auto show could be the same?
Use the slider thing daytona is in the middle.


* 71chicago.jpg (99.84 KB, 1208x559 - viewed 2838 times.)
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Aero426
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 10:37:18 AM »

The only issue is the claim of 1970 race winning history and whether it actually raced as a Daytona or not.   Once again, I'll make the comparison that a P51 Mustang that got shot at in WW II is going to be worth more than a P51 built at the end of the war never firing a shot.

Chrysler commissioned Cotton Owens to build a show Daytona which was used on the 1970 show circuit (Chicago, Detroit, etc.)   What donor car was used in the build (new, used, crashed) is not known.   Photos exist of it at Chicago in 1970, and as we now see at a 1971 show as well.   The fellow (Andy) who hauled it for Chrysler and took care of it at the shows is still around.   He says he went through a few clutches in it.   The thing also has a choke on it which a race car would not have.   Andy's position has been that if it was not on display at a show, the car was in a warehouse in storage during 1970.    

After Chrysler was done with it, it was donated to the Darlington museum in the early 70's.   Cotton retreived the car around 2004 and subsequently sold it.  It has now changed hands again to Canepa - he got a pretty fair deal on it at auction.

A little bird just whispered in my ear to look at the trunk photo.  It has street Daytona wing braces, which you would never see on a race car.  The track cars had tubular braces.   Also do not see the wing safety cable as mandated by rule in 1970.  Where is the rules mandated drive shaft loop?   No car would get on track without that, but a show car would not need it.
 
Side glass was not legal at the time of the 1970 Southern 500.   If it was rebuilt at the end of 1970 as claimed, it makes no sense to put the full glass and inside door sheet metal back in.  That's a lot of work for a show car.

Make no mistake, it is a real Cotton Owens built Daytona.   It's a fantastic car.   My opinion is that it is not possible this car is the Southern 500 race winner.  
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therealmoparman
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2010, 09:25:21 PM »

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moparstuart
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2010, 09:44:54 PM »

 popcrn popcrn popcrn popcrn popcrn
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2010, 11:16:19 PM »

popcrn popcrn popcrn popcrn popcrn

Pass the butter please Stuart popcrn popcrn popcrn
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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2010, 11:26:33 PM »

 popcrn popcrn popcrn
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I won't be wronged, I wont be Insulted and I wont be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others, and I require the same from them.

  [IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/347b5v5.jpg[/img
Aero426
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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2010, 11:50:45 PM »

Secondly, this same car was the first car to exceed 200mph in a NASCAR sanctioned race - at Talladega. However, for it to be an "official" record, it has to be done with timing equipment, run both directions, etc. Therefore, Chrysler engineers built the #88 car and set out to "officially" claim the 200mph record for the recordbooks. This is all well documented on the cottonowens.com website. They used Buddy Baker as the driver because he was Cotton's driver and therefore a "factory" driver. Chrysler promoted the 200mph record with the #6 car, because it was an actual race car, and indeed because it did break the 200mph barrier. This is also well documented by Chrysler and you can even find an ad from that era on the website - http://cottonowens.com/photos3.html

Welcome back to DC.com      

Could you provide us with any newspaper or print media report from the period that states that the #6 Daytona achieved a lap of over 200 mph during a race at Talladega in 1970?   A lap over 200 in race trim would be a pretty big achievement and would certainly be publicized.     I checked your website and did not see anything to support this claim.   The Champion Spark Plug ad simply shows one of the #6 Daytonas with the speed of the #88 test car puiblished.

Your above statement infers that the the #6 Daytona set a race record BEFORE the #88 Daytona set the 200.447 official record - and that the #88 was built in reaction to formally set the record.    That is not how it happened.  The #88 set the record three weeks before any racing took place at Talladega in 1970.  
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therealmoparman
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2010, 05:44:46 PM »

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Blakcharger440
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2010, 06:23:18 PM »

That would not make sense to alter the wing braces,safety cable,driveshaft loop and side glass all for the sake of showing the car as a race car? It would seem that to have left those items alone in order to show the alleged race heritage that the car had would have made it more authentic to show off?  shruggy

Stranger things have happened I guess and to semi quote Joe Dirt..."What makes the suregrip in a Dodge work???...I dont know...it just does"!!!  icon_smile_big
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2010, 06:38:39 PM »

Don't take this the wrong way because I am NOT the guy who is qualified to comment on the heritage of this car one way or the other, but, something I am qualified to comment on is that using auction companies and collector car brokers write ups as proof of anything is pointless.  They just rehash what the consignor tells them to and they rarely if ever check that it is factual.
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therealmoparman
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2010, 06:58:25 PM »

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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2010, 07:11:47 PM »

As I said, I wasn't commenting one way or the other just saying that the other sources you used wouldn't be my first offer as evidence.  Now the sources you just listed would be ones that I would consider as having more weight.
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2010, 07:15:10 PM »

Again....
Whether it's real or not, cheap or expensive, his or hers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  It's just plain bad#$@ looking !!!!!!

Troy
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Aero426
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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2010, 07:27:21 PM »

I do have a program from Cotton's induction to the IMHOF in 2008, and his bio states "first car to exceed 200mph in a NASCAR sanctioned event."

I also have the original Stock Car Racing issue from August 1970 which depicts the #6 Dodge under large a large "200" - "Buddy Baker Tells it Like it is at 200 mph" - shown on the website at http://cottonowens.com/stockcarracing.html

So if the Talladega IMHOF is willing to state that as a fact, and Stock Car Racing also - then it would pretty much have to be accepted as fact, don't you think? And Chrysler as well who promoted it. None of these respected entities would depict the #6 car with the 200mph record unless it actually happened - otherwise that would be just a tad deceptive.

The August 1970 issue of Stock Car Racing that you mentioned does not say ANYWHERE that Buddy ran 200 in the #6.   The cover is indeed deceptive unless you read the caption inside the front cover.  It states the photo is from the 1969 Texas 500, and that the 200 numbers are "emblematic" (their words) that he was the first man to run 200 in a stock car.  However, the actual interview in the magazine clearly states Buddy ran the #88 test car to get the record.   There are no published professionally taken color photos of the #88 on the record run.   It would seem that SCR used an existing photo of Buddy's #6 from the Texas race as a matter of conveinience.

As to the credibility of the IMHOF statement,  I would ask "Who supplied the bio information?"    That statement would have to originate from some published report or press release from the period.

Again, do you have anything in print from 1970 that states when and at what speed the the #6 went 200 in a race?
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