440 rear main seal leak. DONE!

[1969chargerrtse]

I just can't figure out if my rear main is leaking, or something behind the back of the block?  Biggest clue is it drips from the same right side of the block off the oil pan lip.  It doesn't seem to be thrown all over. Also it only leaks while at a higher RPM than idle?  If I look up at the crank flange I don't see oil spraying around, it just does a drip thing. The drip is from right of the center, not under the center of the crank. I cleaned up the pan and tightened it up, it's not the pan gasket, or the intake casket or the oil sending unit, or the valve cover.

[histoy]

My 440 had a leak in about the same place.  The side seals for the rear main bearing seal were not installed properly.  The shop used the method where you squirt silicone into the side seal hole and then insert a pipe cleaner into the hole.   The silicone didn't fill the hole and left a gap 3/4" long on one side and 3/8" long on the other side.  I've never had a problem with the original type side seals in the past.

You might also check to verify that the valve cover isn't leaking on the back corner.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Any one try this crap yet?   

[1969chargerrtse]

My 440 had a leak in about the same place.  The side seals for the rear main bearing seal were not installed properly.  The shop used the method where you squirt silicone into the side seal hole and then insert a pipe cleaner into the hole.   The silicone didn't fill the hole and left a gap 3/4" long on one side and 3/8" long on the other side.  I've never had a problem with the original type side seals in the past.

You might also check to verify that the valve cover isn't leaking on the back corner.

It's not the valve cover either.  Can you explain the "side seal" thing again?  Would this be the same thing as replaceing the main seal, or can I remove the trani and reach and fix it?
Does the fact it doesn't leak at idle give any clues?

[1969chargerrtse]

Any one try this crap yet?   

I may.

[Cooter]

Yep, what "histoy" said....I've seen more leaks where the side seal in the rear main aluminum cap seal to the block than rear main seals themselves....
IF it were a rear main seal leak, it would be dripping oil from the seal at idle as well as high RPM's...More than likely, that stuff in a bottle won't work.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Any one try this crap yet?   

I may.

I bought a bottle last season...will use it this seasons oil change

[1969chargerrtse]

Yep, what "histoy" said....I've seen more leaks where the side seal in the rear main aluminum cap seal to the block than rear main seals themselves....
IF it were a rear main seal leak, it would be dripping oil from the seal at idle as well as high RPM's...More than likely, that stuff in a bottle won't work.

So this leak is behind the crank flange and can't be sealed by removing the trani and trying to plug it?  You have to do the whole thing over again?

[1969chargerrtse]

I found a great site for more detail info.


http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?t=3686



"ALOT Of times the problem is where the Seal Meets the Sides of the Block.One thing to make sure of is that you have enough Proper Ventalation of the CrankCase(PCV Valve etc).Too Much Blow-By will push out the seal or oil pass the seal.When Installing the REAR MAIN SEAL(Aluminum Housing)make sure you put a bead of silicone down each side of the Seal where it Joins to the sides of the block...I would venture to say your problem is exactly this.You didnt put Ultra-Copper Seal Silicone on the sides of the Seal and it is leaking passed the Adapter Seal.."

[1969chargerrtse]

Well, I'll let you know how it goes.  I dropped the pan after dropping the steering bar.  I had to separate from the idler arm and pitnam arm.  It was real hard to get the pitnam arm to pop, I ruined the seal for sure.  I'm not sure what I'm doing here but I'll post as I go along.  I did get the pan off without lifting the engine.  I'm done for today.

[1969chargerrtse]

I lied.  I'm at it again.  I pulled the windage tray down and found the seal.  I need all the advise I can get to do this right, one time.  It was easier than I thought.  I noticed the crank seal is not flush with the cap?  I'm wondering if I should order the seal for just the cap side and put it in flush if not a hair higher so it compresses the seal above?  Please give advise on what to buy and how to do it.  Do I put in the new side seals and goop them up?  What goop would you use, etc...

What I don't get is it looks gooped up well, and that's the side that was leaking?

Also, even though the rear main wasn't leaking, and it is inset a bit on the holder should I leave it, or just recut a lower new wick and extend it a hair?

[firefighter3931]

Rob, here's a good thread on main seal replacement. It's important to offset the half seals to get it properly sealed up. Just use silicone on the side seals....high heat stuff works fine.


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,35697.msg391185/topicseen.html#msg391185



Ron

[1969chargerrtse]

Rob, here's a good thread on main seal replacement. It's important to offset the half seals to get it properly sealed up. Just use silicone on the side seals....high heat stuff works fine.


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,35697.msg391185/topicseen.html#msg391185



Ron

Thanks Ron.  One thing I'm wondering is if I should put the same 1/2 seal back up there and just redo the side seals?   I just don't know why the side seals leaked?
Re reading your post and thinking about redoing the seals, does that mean I have to drop the crank?
I'm hoping to slide it out (seal) , and slide one in.

[1969chargerrtse]

Ordered parts thru Mancini and should have them by thurs. I should have it done by Saturday and give it a start Sunday. Kinda nervous about pushing the seal up there, but no stopping now. Pictures coming soon.

[Nacho-RT74]

Nice reading Ron!!! and good eye Bob!!! but, what about rope kind ?

[1969chargerrtse]

Mancini told me I'll never slide a rope up and over the crank and the neoprene seal would be the best way to go.  Some people like rope, some don't, I'm not gonna get stressed about it.  I'm just gonna put the seal up there and wish me best.

[Nacho-RT74]

it is posible just if you drop the crank a little bit... not easy though, but I have seen it done

[firefighter3931]

Rob, here's a good thread on main seal replacement. It's important to offset the half seals to get it properly sealed up. Just use silicone on the side seals....high heat stuff works fine.


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,35697.msg391185/topicseen.html#msg391185



Ron

Thanks Ron.  One thing I'm wondering is if I should put the same 1/2 seal back up there and just redo the side seals?   I just don't know why the side seals leaked?
Re reading your post and thinking about redoing the seals, does that mean I have to drop the crank?
I'm hoping to slide it out (seal) , and slide one in.

Rob, you might as well replace both seals while you're in there. Use the new seal to push out the old one. I've done it that way in the past but normally i have the engine on the stand.


Ron

[1969chargerrtse]

O.k so here we go.  The difference on the Mancini kit which is Mopar is that the side seals ( what was leaking ) are soft rubber as the ones in my old set were like cardboard or stiff sticks.  I used a allen wrench to push the wick seal through, and it was not moving at all.  I had to loosen 4 of the 5 main caps to pry the crank down just a hair.  It worked.
I then pulled the old wick out and lubed up and slid the new neoprene seal in.  I set it off center about an 1/8th of an inch like the one in the cap.  Obviously you have to have one side up an 1/8th, and the other side matching to fit the off set.
HERE IS WHAT YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO.
You do not want to slime up the side seals and put the block and seal back up.  Why?  Because after you do that, and tighten it up, YOU CAN'T GET A SOCKET ON THE REAR MAIN CAP TO TORQUE IT UP!  
I had to pull the slimy thing down and out, and then tighten the crank ( which is real hard on your back reading a needle torque wrench upside down.
After getting the crank torqued I went back to putting the seal and side seals back in.  It was hard as the side seals do not want to be up there and keep sliding down.  You have to wiggle it and push and wiggle until you get the block, and side seals up.  What a mess.
One other piece of advise.  I don't like the gasket set Mancini sent at all.  I had Felpro cork and rubber which had the smaller bolt hole openings so you could hang a pan bolt or 2 to help keep the gaskets aligned.  Try  putting a pan, a gasket, a splash and another gasket together on your back.  It was a real pain in the arms.  Also the gaskets were a black paper type, hope they don't leak?   Hope this helps others to give it a try.  I'm planning to start it tomorrow and we shall see if it worked and how long it last.

[1969chargerrtse]

I put some atv sealer on the side of the block, if its hard tomorrow after work, I'll fire it up.

[TylerCharger69]

Those red "sticks" in the picture...im willing to wager that is where it was leaking from.....usually overlooked!!!

[1969chargerrtse]

Those red "sticks" in the picture...im willing to wager that is where it was leaking from.....usually overlooked!!!

Yes it was leaking from the side sticks.  The new ones are soft rubber and should do well.  I hope.

[russg]

Hey now, I specifically warned you to tighten up the crank caps first before you put the seal cap on in my rear main thread...  hope yours is a success

[1969chargerrtse]

Hey now, I specifically warned you to tighten up the crank caps first before you put the seal cap on in my rear main thread...  hope yours is a success

O  I missed that part.  

[Nacho-RT74]

ouch!!!... the trick to remove the top rope seal it was to use a selftapping screw on to one of the rope ends and pull out by the screw

[1969chargerrtse]

ouch!!!... the trick to remove the top rope seal it was to use a selftapping screw on to one of the rope ends and pull out by the screw

Yeah, I read that somewhere after I did the job.  It's kinda hard to remember all the things you read when it's the first time you're doing it. None of the bearing caps moved so hopefully all is back to normal.

[Nacho-RT74]

that's the way a mechanich also INSTALLED new rope seals on my car without remove engine still mounted

[1969chargerrtse]

Well it's done and not a drop ( so far).  
When I pulled the car out to the driveway and it was down hill, I looked underneath and there was a puddle .  I'm happy to say it was oil from before in the bell housing.  I parked the car on my hill and let it drain.  I drove it for about a half hour and not a drop. PRAISE THE LORD!  I hope it stays this way.  When it was first rebuilt it lasted about 7 months.  I'm just glad a got a car to drive this hot weekend.

Thanks everyone and Ron for your help.  One less leak.  I think I may now be leak free.

Hope this helps others down the line.