DodgeCharger.com Forum
September 27, 2016, 02:39:54 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: DodgeCharger.com decals are available here!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Login Register Chat  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Thoughts on converting 440 Wedge into Stage V Hemi Headed Engine.  (Read 10799 times)
1Bad70Charger
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 391


« on: August 18, 2010, 11:22:04 PM »

I heard about this for the first time several years ago and what a great way to convert your 440 for about 1/2 the price into a Hemi Engine.

Has anyone done this and what is your feedback from your own personal experience and general cost to turn your 440 Wedge motor into a Hemi.

I know, many will say just buy a real Hemi, but for 1/2 the price I could care less if its a REAL HEMI, and this is a very intriguing idea to me, espeically on a stroker done on the 440 on the engine referenced in the article that was stroked to 528 cubes and made about 650HP!  cheers

Here is the article has anyone here done this or have first hand experience/knowledge regarding same?

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/1969_chrysler_newport_440_block_conversion/index.html
Logged

48 year old Self Employed Trial Lawyer (I fight the ambulance chasers); 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner A12 Tribute Car, Built 505ci; Silver 2008 Hemi Dodge Challenger SRT8, Black 2006 Corvette Z06 427ci LS7-Keep God First, Family Second and Horsepower Third.  Interests:  God, Fast American Cars (old and new), Classic Muscle Cars, German Sheperds, Guns, Animals and the Great Outdoors (sick of Chicago).
lisiecki1
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,077



« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2010, 07:37:13 AM »

sick!

want it!
Logged

Remember the average response time to a 911 call is over 4 minutes.

The average response time of a 357 magnum is 1400 FPS.
mauve66
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,150


the best dreams have wings and big blocks


« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2010, 08:39:12 AM »

i tried to go to the web site several years ago and got no email reply, and the site hadn't been updated in several years at that point so i could never find anymore info
they didn't seem to be in business......??
Logged

Robert-Las Vegas, NV

NEEDS:
body work
paint - mauve and black
powder coat wheels - mauve and black
total wiring
PW
PDLKS
Tint
trim
engine - 520/540, eddy heads, 6pak
alignment
Troy
Administrator
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,303



« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2010, 09:53:50 AM »

We've discussed these before. My argument has always been that the expensive parts of a Hemi are mostly all in the top end (heads, valve train, intake, carbs, air cleaner, etc.) and you'll need those no matter what. Some of those parts have come down significantly in cost since then. The expensive parts in the bottom end of a Hemi can be "fudged" - ie you can use a 440 crank, balancer, flywheel, pulleys and brackets instead of the rare/pricey Hemi specific parts. The conversion heads also require a good amount of machine work to the block to get it all to fit. I think that by the time you convert a 440 to use all the Hemi parts you could just build a Hemi with the 440 parts and the cost would be a wash. Add in the fact that, as stated above, I don't think the heads are even available any more.

Troy
Logged

Sarcasm detector, that's a real good invention.
69charger440
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 537



« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2010, 11:25:30 AM »

Hey guys those heads are still available!!  Called them about month ago!! They are back ordered for 2-3 months for these heads! And expect to shell out 22,000 quarters ($5,500) for this setup!!! That's what they told me a month ago!!!
Logged

1969 Charger 540 Blown Hemi 1000HP, 69 Road Runner 500 Stroker 665 HP
Troy
Administrator
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,303



« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2010, 12:26:47 PM »

You can buy Stage V aluminum heads (bare) for $2k per set, Mopar aluminum heads for $2k (bare) or $2,500 (assembled), or Mopar iron heads for $2,100 (bare) or $2,550 (assembled). You just need a Hemi block. Considering the fact that you're saving over $3k you can just buy a new iron Hemi block to put them on.

Troy
Logged

Sarcasm detector, that's a real good invention.
Challenger340
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,123


Better to be a "has been", than a "never was"


« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2010, 08:52:20 AM »

Yeah I just did a Stage V "Conversion" Head onto a World Aluminum 540 Cubic Inch Wedge Block for a Customer, what specifically do you wish to know ?
Logged

Only wimps wear Bowties !
mauve66
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,150


the best dreams have wings and big blocks


« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2010, 03:45:00 PM »

was the motor race only or dual purpose, TQ/HP numbers, what would it cost to do it again, how complete was it- valve covers?? timing cover?? etc
was thinking of getting the block now, in case they stop making them for some reason then going the stroker route at a later date.........
Logged

Robert-Las Vegas, NV

NEEDS:
body work
paint - mauve and black
powder coat wheels - mauve and black
total wiring
PW
PDLKS
Tint
trim
engine - 520/540, eddy heads, 6pak
alignment
Challenger340
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,123


Better to be a "has been", than a "never was"


« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2010, 09:36:34 AM »

It was a Race Only Engine, to utilize the Conversion Heads which the Customer already had, and wanted to use.
They can produce very good power.

I'll post up the Dyno Sheet if anybodies actually interested, but as I said it was "Race", and probably not relevant at THAT HP level to a street application.
It would probably bust your car in Half, if it ever hooked, unless it was seriously modified.

As far as costs concerned, it's gonna depend upon "what" a Guy wants ?

If a Guy simply wants the "Eye Candy" associated with the HEMI appearance utilizing a "stock" Wedge Block, then I suspect there may be "some" cost savings namely in the "Block Itself" area only ?
But, thats about it, and minimal at best ?
And really,
WHY ?

The StageV Conversion Heads and Kits were a product targeted "back in the Day" when HEMI Blocks were "unavailable" new, and extremely scarce used.
Therefore,
if a Guy wanted that HEMI look, there were few options, so the idea of being able to MAKE a Hemi using the Wedge Block, made good sense ?

Some things to keep in mind when considering the Stage V Conversion Head Route on a "stock" Wedge Block these Days.
* Block lifter Gallery must be clearanced to accept the Modified Pushrod Angles, COST added to the Stock Block
* although the Stock 3/8" Oil Pickup may be used, 1/2" is a good idea, given the HEMI Heads can ZING past 6K before a guy knows what happened.
* if using a stock 440 Crank, Heavy Metal will be required to Balance at the Higher Bobweight Calc.
* still uses HEMI Pistons, and if you are looking for "off the Shelf" units, they will probably have the "stock" HEMI 1.031" pins.(wedge are 1.094")
and,
They will have a different Comp Distance because of the 6.86" Hemi Rod Length vrs the wedge 6.76"
* From the above, easy to see the WHY ? HEMI Rods will need to be purchased ? Length and Pin Dia.
* Expect Bobweights in the 2550 gram range, hence as stated an EXPENSIVE Balance job on a stock Wedge Crank.
* Oil drainback lines(4) will need to be plumbed back to the Pan, as the Wedge Block has no provision, which can complicate Chassis installation when routing.
* For a "street" application, it is highly advisable to simply circumvent the standard HEMI Rocker Oiling issues, Restrict, then go to a Pushrod Oiling System(Chevy Style), or, build Exhaust Pushrod cup Oilers with an Intake Shaft Feed.

Those are just a "few" of the issues off the top of my Melon.

As for the World Aluminum Block, I do not like them "as delivered", and encountered numerous Machining "issues" requiring correction for service.
Even the Main Studs, which are CHINESE, are Mated to "ARP" Nuts to try and fool guys into thinking the studs are ARP as well !
Until,
they snap in half under Load stretch testing ! Makes for "interested" phone conversations with World Products, who MAKE the MOPAR Blocks !
I'll NEVER understand WHY a Company would put "ARP" Nuts, on a CHINESE Main Stud ? SNAP !

The StageV Conversion Heads DO look "neat" though.


Oiling Mod
Logged

Only wimps wear Bowties !
mauve66
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,150


the best dreams have wings and big blocks


« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2010, 04:12:03 PM »

thanks, gave up on the head switch years ago but was looking at the new 440 block (not aluminum), after some reading i realize the stock 440 block isn't a candidate for the 520-540 stroker.............
Logged

Robert-Las Vegas, NV

NEEDS:
body work
paint - mauve and black
powder coat wheels - mauve and black
total wiring
PW
PDLKS
Tint
trim
engine - 520/540, eddy heads, 6pak
alignment
1Bad70Charger
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 391


« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2010, 06:16:44 PM »

It was a Race Only Engine, to utilize the Conversion Heads which the Customer already had, and wanted to use.
They can produce very good power.

I'll post up the Dyno Sheet if anybodies actually interested, but as I said it was "Race", and probably not relevant at THAT HP level to a street application.
It would probably bust your car in Half, if it ever hooked, unless it was seriously modified.

As far as costs concerned, it's gonna depend upon "what" a Guy wants ?

If a Guy simply wants the "Eye Candy" associated with the HEMI appearance utilizing a "stock" Wedge Block, then I suspect there may be "some" cost savings namely in the "Block Itself" area only ?
But, thats about it, and minimal at best ?
And really,
WHY ?

The StageV Conversion Heads and Kits were a product targeted "back in the Day" when HEMI Blocks were "unavailable" new, and extremely scarce used.
Therefore,
if a Guy wanted that HEMI look, there were few options, so the idea of being able to MAKE a Hemi using the Wedge Block, made good sense ?

Some things to keep in mind when considering the Stage V Conversion Head Route on a "stock" Wedge Block these Days.
* Block lifter Gallery must be clearanced to accept the Modified Pushrod Angles, COST added to the Stock Block
* although the Stock 3/8" Oil Pickup may be used, 1/2" is a good idea, given the HEMI Heads can ZING past 6K before a guy knows what happened.
* if using a stock 440 Crank, Heavy Metal will be required to Balance at the Higher Bobweight Calc.
* still uses HEMI Pistons, and if you are looking for "off the Shelf" units, they will probably have the "stock" HEMI 1.031" pins.(wedge are 1.094")
and,
They will have a different Comp Distance because of the 6.86" Hemi Rod Length vrs the wedge 6.76"
* From the above, easy to see the WHY ? HEMI Rods will need to be purchased ? Length and Pin Dia.
* Expect Bobweights in the 2550 gram range, hence as stated an EXPENSIVE Balance job on a stock Wedge Crank.
* Oil drainback lines(4) will need to be plumbed back to the Pan, as the Wedge Block has no provision, which can complicate Chassis installation when routing.
* For a "street" application, it is highly advisable to simply circumvent the standard HEMI Rocker Oiling issues, Restrict, then go to a Pushrod Oiling System(Chevy Style), or, build Exhaust Pushrod cup Oilers with an Intake Shaft Feed.

Those are just a "few" of the issues off the top of my Melon.

As for the World Aluminum Block, I do not like them "as delivered", and encountered numerous Machining "issues" requiring correction for service.
Even the Main Studs, which are CHINESE, are Mated to "ARP" Nuts to try and fool guys into thinking the studs are ARP as well !
Until,
they snap in half under Load stretch testing ! Makes for "interested" phone conversations with World Products, who MAKE the MOPAR Blocks !
I'll NEVER understand WHY a Company would put "ARP" Nuts, on a CHINESE Main Stud ? SNAP !

The StageV Conversion Heads DO look "neat" though.


Oiling Mod



Challenger 340,

Incredible right up and info my friend and it looks like other than the engine block, building a good ole Hemi Engine from scratch seems to make more sense based upon your right up, as it really does not seem like the savings would be significant (if any).

Thanks for the time for that fantastic post.  2thumbs
Logged

48 year old Self Employed Trial Lawyer (I fight the ambulance chasers); 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner A12 Tribute Car, Built 505ci; Silver 2008 Hemi Dodge Challenger SRT8, Black 2006 Corvette Z06 427ci LS7-Keep God First, Family Second and Horsepower Third.  Interests:  God, Fast American Cars (old and new), Classic Muscle Cars, German Sheperds, Guns, Animals and the Great Outdoors (sick of Chicago).
Challenger340
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,123


Better to be a "has been", than a "never was"


« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2010, 10:23:13 AM »

Your Welcome !

Sry for the LONG post, I just didn't think a "Don't do it" on the Stage V conversion Head would suffice ?

My personal thoughts if a Guy REALLY wants a HEMI are these;
* Go buy a Crate HEMI from Mopar
* Have it dis-assembled, and gone through by a reputable Machine Shop/Engine Builder to correct the "genre" of Machining as delivered.

Rationale;
You simply cannot beat the Cummulative Price for a "complete" Engine on a HEMI, as offered from Mopar.
That said,
Well, they just aren't Machined/Built real well from Mopar, and the costs to "correct" them when new are relatively small, if a Guy is gonna drive it like he's "mad at it" at all !
Logged

Only wimps wear Bowties !
Nacho-RT74
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,730


Tired of everything


« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2010, 11:11:45 PM »

WOW! GREAT IDEA ABOUT THE OILING MOD!
Logged

Venezuelan RT 74 400 4bbl, 727, 8.75 3.23 open. Now stroked with 440 crank and 3.55 SG. Here is the History and how is actually: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7603.0/all.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,25060.0.html
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.052 seconds with 17 queries.