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Author Topic: Best carb for a stock '69 440  (Read 5662 times)
66FBCharger
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« on: October 24, 2011, 06:06:01 AM »

What is the best carb for a stock '69 440 4 speed (3.54 rear). I am looking for a stock type carb that starts easily, idles well and has good driveability (no hesitating,stalling stc.). I have an Edelbrock AFB. I am not sure what CFM it is.
What do you run on your engine? What size? How do you like it?
Should I bother finding the correct original carb and rebuild it?
Thanks for your opinions.
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'69 Charger R/T 440 4 speed T5, '70 Road Runner 440+6 4 speed, '73 'Cuda 340 4 speed, '66 Charger 383 Auto
SOLD!:'69 Charger R/T S.E. 440 4 speed 3.54 Dana rolling body
1969chargerrtse
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2011, 06:17:42 AM »

I had the eddy carb and it was fine. I located an original carter on eBay and now run that. It runs great but the only issue I have seems to be common whereas if the car sits more than one day I have to crank the crap out of it when cold to get gas up there. I didn't have this issue with Ed. The price was 300.00 for the 4640sa carb on eBay. I made an offer of around 125.00?  and he took it. I just wire brushed the outside and stuck it on my car. Runs like new!!
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y3chargerrt
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« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2011, 06:18:35 AM »

I have been very happy with my edelbrock 750. Runs good and fits just like the original carb.
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Dino
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 06:57:50 AM »

Same here, I have en Eddy 750 (1407) with the electric choke kit and it runs just fine.  Starts up right away every time unless it's really hot but that's a crossover issue and not the carb's fault.  One thing I have is the occasional idle stumble that seems to be the norm with these carbs but it's not really an issue. 

If there's a carb out there that flows better I'd go for it, but it's nice not having to adjust this thing.  I never touch it, just get in and go and that's a must for me.
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bakerhillpins
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« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 08:15:52 AM »

the only issue I have seems to be common whereas if the car sits more than one day I have to crank the crap out of it when cold to get gas up there.

Ha, that explains that.  I have much to learn.   yesnod
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Just 6T9 CHGR
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« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 03:18:08 PM »

the only issue I have seems to be common whereas if the car sits more than one day I have to crank the crap out of it when cold to get gas up there.

Ha, that explains that.  I have much to learn.   yesnod
That was only one of the issues I had with my $600 restored paperweight Carter 4640SA carb....

Swapped it out for my trusty Vac Secondary 750 Holley & all is right with the world... 

Carb choices are like opinions which are like a$$holes....everyone has got one!  Wink
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Budnicks
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2011, 03:29:55 PM »

the only issue I have seems to be common whereas if the car sits more than one day I have to crank the crap out of it when cold to get gas up there.

Ha, that explains that.  I have much to learn.   yesnod
That was only one of the issues I had with my $600 restored paperweight Carter 4640SA carb....

Swapped it out for my trusty Vac Secondary 750 Holley & all is right with the world...  

Carb choices are like opinions which are like a$$holes....everyone has got one!  Wink
I would tend to agree I prefer a Holley type carbs, over the Eddy or the Carter {I know a bunch of people sware by them, I'm not 1 of them especially for performance uses}, unless it's a 100pt restoration then do the proper factory carb, Carter AFB, AVS or Thermoquad...
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1970chargerrt
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2011, 10:20:36 AM »

I have the original Carter in my 1970.  I jsut cleaned it and put new gaskets in it.  It runs great.  I pump it twice if it is cold and it fires right up.  Not sure if they did anything differnt on the 70 from the 69 but mine has no starting problems.  Even after sitting all winter I crank it a few times to get gas in it and pump it 3 times and it fires right up.


the only issue I have seems to be common whereas if the car sits more than one day I have to crank the crap out of it when cold to get gas up there.

Ha, that explains that.  I have much to learn.   yesnod
That was only one of the issues I had with my $600 restored paperweight Carter 4640SA carb....

Swapped it out for my trusty Vac Secondary 750 Holley & all is right with the world... 

Carb choices are like opinions which are like a$$holes....everyone has got one!  Wink
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2011, 05:05:09 PM »

I would use a Proform 850 on a 440 , but I like the cars I own to perform 100%
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71bee
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2011, 09:31:10 AM »

I restore & build carbs for a hobby & sell 'em on egouge. http://www.ebay.com/itm/110766761609?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

I LOVE the stock carter AVS. even though my Charger is a stick & originally came with a Holley 4160, I run a 6125S ('71 383 HP Auto.) on my Bee. it runs better & out-performs (on the street) any other carb I have tried. the Holley 4150 is a close second. they don't like taking corners like the Carter/Eddy's do, are harder to get dialed in & they like to leak after awhile, but I would definitely use that carb for 1/4 mile racing.  

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71bee
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2011, 12:49:00 PM »

I have the original Carter in my 1970.  I jsut cleaned it and put new gaskets in it.  It runs great.  I pump it twice if it is cold and it fires right up.  Not sure if they did anything differnt on the 70 from the 69 but mine has no starting problems.[/
quote]


Yes, Carter did a couple of small modifications on the AVS in late '69. they were a much better performer in the last 2 years of production ('70-'71).
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Budnicks
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2011, 01:05:51 PM »

If a Holley can't handle corners why is it the "Carburetor of choice for, Nascar & SCCA road race cars" for many years before EFI came along ?
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2011, 01:41:46 PM »

If a Holley can't handle corners why is it the "Carburetor of choice for, Nascar & SCCA road race cars" for many years before EFI came along ?

more tunability
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Budnicks
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2011, 01:43:40 PM »

If a Holley can't handle corners why is it the "Carburetor of choice for, Nascar & SCCA road race cars" for many years before EFI came along ?

more tunability
That's 1 of the many reasons I'm sure...
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71bee
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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2011, 06:58:33 PM »

If a Holley can't handle corners why is it the "Carburetor of choice for, Nascar & SCCA road race cars" for many years before EFI came along ?

Why didn't Chrysler use the 4150 as standard equipment? in fact, Chrysler didn't use that many 4160's compared to the numbers of Carter 4 barells they used. as far as NASCAR is concerned, good question. i've been wondering the same thing for years.

As previously posted, carb selection is a matter of personal preference. if you like tinkering with the Holley's, awesome! I prefer the reliability of Carter over any other.
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Bossman963
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« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2011, 10:42:55 PM »

I had the Eddy, but always seemed to have minor issues, carb  on cornering would hesitate, had a lag- so went with  a 750 dp Holley and had to do a minor change to get the initial lag on acceleration which is due to the ethanol used in the gasoline today, changed the gaskets etc and have no problems what so  ever icon_smile_tongue cheers
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Budnicks
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« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2011, 10:51:14 PM »

If a Holley can't handle corners why is it the "Carburetor of choice for, Nascar & SCCA road race cars" for many years before EFI came along ?

Why didn't Chrysler use the 4150 as standard equipment? in fact, Chrysler didn't use that many 4160's compared to the numbers of Carter 4 barells they used. as far as NASCAR is concerned, good question. i've been wondering the same thing for years.

As previously posted, carb selection is a matter of personal preference. if you like tinkering with the Holley's, awesome! I prefer the reliability of Carter over any other.
I personally think Chrysler used Carters because they were cheaper to buy & to produce the final product,  Also the bean counters {accountants} win the battle every time in a large "for profit corporation" when it come to the final production build costs, read some of the many books by some of the Chrysler Engineers {Tom Hoover & Lou Mancini & many, many others} they were always battling the bean counters for "performance based" projects & costs of production build materials & parts... If the Holley your using isn't reliable, your maybe doing something wrong...   I have never had any reliability issues with either types, if they are done correctly...   I do like the Carters AFB, AVS, Thermoquads preferably or then the Edelbrock copies for stock or near stock engine builds & inline dual 4bbls also...   That's my true honest opinion....
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71bee
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« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2011, 10:12:31 AM »

Been building/tuning/modifying all types of carbs for 30 years. it's been one of my favorite hobbies.  i've read/studied tons of material pertaining to Holley's & Carters alike. I fully understand the functionality of how both companies designed their products. again, it's simply a matter of preference. also again, not trying to hate on the Holley's here guys. Like I said, I would definitely run a Holley 4150 (or Carter Thermo-quad) for strip use. The problems I hated with the Holley's were the vacuum diaphram in the 4160's (standard eqip. for MoPar) & the side mounted floats. this is where your cornering issues always occur, and yes, I know you can purchase after-market center mounted float bowls (definitely preferred). also, the Holley float bowl gaskets would always start leaking after a couple years. -always purchase the marine gaskets BTW.

That being said, the thread started off by asking "which carb should I use for a stock '69 440 engine?" I stand by the Carter 750 CFM AVS for a stock 440 (preferably '70-'71 models) or Eddy 800 CFM Thunder series AVS.

Now, about the Thermo-quad.... Cheesy
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Budnicks
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« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2011, 03:34:37 PM »

Been building/tuning/modifying all types of carbs for 30 years. it's been one of my favorite hobbies.  i've read/studied tons of material pertaining to Holley's & Carters alike. I fully understand the functionality of how both companies designed their products. again, it's simply a matter of preference. also again, not trying to hate on the Holley's here guys. Like I said, I would definitely run a Holley 4150 (or Carter Thermo-quad) for strip use. The problems I hated with the Holley's were the vacuum diaphram in the 4160's (standard eqip. for MoPar) & the side mounted floats. this is where your cornering issues always occur, and yes, I know you can purchase after-market center mounted float bowls (definitely preferred). also, the Holley float bowl gaskets would always start leaking after a couple years. -always purchase the marine gaskets BTW.

That being said, the thread started off by asking "which carb should I use for a stock '69 440 engine?" I stand by the Carter 750 CFM AVS for a stock 440 (preferably '70-'71 models) or Eddy 800 CFM Thunder series AVS.

Now, about the Thermo-quad.... Cheesy
Very well said, I pretty much agree... I'm not bashing either Holley or Carter, they each have their own place & each person has a choice to select what type & brand they prefer, like you've said several times now you prefer the Carter for a stock 69 440 engine, "no one is arguing that is your choice", I'm just giving a different perspective on the whole Holley vs Edelbrock/Carter, which have had a ton of quality control issues with their carburetors of late, just read all the posts about tuning & stumbling problems with them, for the non-experts on tuning & building them, you are someone who has done your research & now them inside & out, what seem simple to you & I isn't always for others, there's always more than 1 way to skin a cat so to speak, too each their own, both will work...  I think many people are either 1 or the other, your a die hard Carter/Edelbrock guy or a diehard Holley/Proform/Quickfuels/Barry Grant type guy, very few people are in both camps so to speak, I personally like both & know how to tune & build both, I have used both brands in many different configurations many times... You know what would be great to see, I would like to see a "non biased" side by side comparison on both styles on a "engine dyno test, driveability test, on a roller dyno & real world applications", with both out of the box stock & equally modified in various forms of both brands "that would be a great read for me", I don't think anyone has ever done a true "non biased" article like that, side by side true "fact based comparison" in my almost 40 years now of messing with cars & racing, if you know of 1 let us know, I would love to see it & read it...
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71bee
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« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2011, 09:01:03 AM »

Agreed Budnicks, I would love for someone to do a rundown video of both brands of carburetors. stock engines to modified strip screamers, showing the pro's & cons of both Carter & Holley. looks like we'll just have to get together & do one ourselves!  Wink
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Budnicks
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« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2011, 12:37:30 PM »

Agreed Budnicks, I would love for someone to do a rundown video of both brands of carburetors. stock engines to modified strip screamers, showing the pro's & cons of both Carter & Holley. looks like we'll just have to get together & do one ourselves!  Wink
I'm not a good camera guy...LOL...
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