Look we're famous

[DrHemi]

Probably been posted before but it amused me.

Another sad thing is how time dulls the memories...

On dodgecharger.com, there was a thread about the fender scoops on the Daytonas. There was actual documentation presented in John Pointers own handwriting that the scoops (known as "exhausters") were good for a 3% drag reduction. We all know the tire clearance story that has been out there for years.

The funny part is that they took a poll of who believed in tire clearance versus drag reduction...

Even with FACTORY DOCUMENTATION, some folks STILL voted for tire clearance!!! Unbelievable!

Furthermore, it has been proven that the tire would hit the inner hood structure FIRST, before ever getting NEAR the fender.

[Indygenerallee]

Cool, I figured for a long time it was to evacuate trapped air under the hood, I never believed the tire rubbing schpeal.

[Ghoste]

Have you read the entire thread?

[odcics2]

I have to find my photo of the K&K with tire rubber deposited from both scoop openings to the cowl.
Yes - the inner hood on the race car hits first, by at least an inch.
The illegal "2x2" cars built in mid 68 had tire rub issues because............drum roll...........they were illegal! And the t-bars were too soft...
I have an early test of DC-93 where Glotzbach ran over a good bump in the track and stated, "A puff of tire smoke came out of the scoop".  (not in, as some claim that weren't there) 

Pointer's document is the smoking gun.   Period.   

Folks can believe what they want!!    Facts are facts.   

[bull]

What was the point of putting the holes in the tops of the fenders? Obviously the holes are too small for tires to fit for the sake of clearance but why are they there at all?

[C5X DAYTONA]

There are two threads about this topic.    You talk about documents.  Here is my take..  Pointers first drawing.   NO SCOOPS...... 

[C5X DAYTONA]

Here is the hand written test you write about.   Problem #1 is...  No date or test #.    The 3/8 wind tunnel test car is alive and well.   Guess what?  Problem #2..   No holes in the fender tops or repairs to the fender tops on the little car.   How could this test be possible if there was no test on the 3/8 car.  There was only one 3/8 wind tunnel car.   

[C5X DAYTONA]

What was the point of putting the holes in the tops of the fenders? Obviously the holes are too small for tires to fit for the sake of clearance but why are they there at all?

Wallace said they thought they had to be there on the street car.   They later found out they were not required to be there on the street car.  That is why the bird doesn't have them.

[C5X DAYTONA]

Probably been posted before but it amused me.

Another sad thing is how time dulls the memories...

On dodgecharger.com, there was a thread about the fender scoops on the Daytonas. There was actual documentation presented in John Pointers own handwriting that the scoops (known as "exhausters") were good for a 3% drag reduction. We all know the tire clearance story that has been out there for years.

The funny part is that they took a poll of who believed in tire clearance versus drag reduction...

Even with FACTORY DOCUMENTATION, some folks STILL voted for tire clearance!!! Unbelievable!

Furthermore, it has been proven that the tire would hit the inner hood structure FIRST, before ever getting NEAR the fender.

Unless I missed something..  What FACTORY DOCUMENTATION do you have or saw?

[C5X DAYTONA]

Read the two other threads.  Great stuff posted on both sides.   This is what George Wallace said about the topic.  We 'engineers' wanted a little room on top of the right front fender.     We didn't care what Pointer did to it.  That was his expertise....        This is why I quote what I do.  No matter how stupid you think it is..   Clearance first as per the engineers seeing Pointer's drawing.   Then aero 2nd per John Pointer revisions.   There is no hint of extractors till after the engineers saw the drawing.    And don't go looking at a street car guys.  The 'reason' has nothing to do with street cars or even Superbirds.    They wanted it on the High Speed Test Mule #88. What happened after the first test doesn't matter.  It's after the fact.   This is about how the EXTRACTORS came to be.    ALSO.   Race Daytona's didn't have air pressure issue under the hood.  Those 2 small holes in the nose and that big spoiler fixed that.      Here is a picture of George Wallace at the Spring Fling in Van Nuys California with the 3/8 scale wind tunnel test car.

[odcics2]

There are two threads about this topic.    You talk about documents.  Here is my take..  Pointers first drawing.   NO SCOOPS...... 

Yes - I own that drawing. They also called it a 1970 Daytona - and that's not correct either.

[odcics2]

Here is the hand written test you write about.   Problem #1 is...  No date or test #.    The 3/8 wind tunnel test car is alive and well.   Guess what?  Problem #2..   No holes in the fender tops or repairs to the fender tops on the little car.   How could this test be possible if there was no test on the 3/8 car.  There was only one 3/8 wind tunnel car.    

John told me they tested it all at Chelsea.  You did notice the wing is not mentioned - it was not a 'recommended feature' at that time, since this is prior to that being part of the package.    The prototype wing was tested at the Huntsville Airport on DC-93.   A lot can be done without a 3/8 model car!!  

[hemigeno]

Probably been posted before but it amused me.

Another sad thing is how time dulls the memories...

On dodgecharger.com, there was a thread about the fender scoops on the Daytonas. There was actual documentation presented in John Pointers own handwriting that the scoops (known as "exhausters") were good for a 3% drag reduction. We all know the tire clearance story that has been out there for years.

The funny part is that they took a poll of who believed in tire clearance versus drag reduction...

Even with FACTORY DOCUMENTATION, some folks STILL voted for tire clearance!!! Unbelievable!

Furthermore, it has been proven that the tire would hit the inner hood structure FIRST, before ever getting NEAR the fender.

Unless I missed something..  What FACTORY DOCUMENTATION do you have or saw?

I'm gathering that the majority of the original post was a quote from someone else (emphasis added based on my guess on the quoted text), although the source wasn't identified - and that's the person to whom your questions should be directed.

[Aero426]

So where were the comments about the dc.com fender scoop discussion posted?     I assume it was on another board? 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

So where were the comments about the dc.com fender scoop discussion posted?     I assume it was on another board? 

http://www.randyayersmodeling.com/modelingforum/viewtopic.php?p=555270&sid=f561f16458c5d392dff1d5da20c09d0b

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Earlier thread...

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,85143.0.html

[Daytona Guy]

Here we go again... Ha ha

My 2cents -

Coming from a family of engineers, just becuase an involved engineer talks years down the road may add little to reallity, even if that was their personal view at the time. I have seen, in the course of a project, engineers say they believed some strange things that the rest of the engineeers rolled their eyes at. You just don't know. If it is not written down and documented it never happened. Besides, all this could be settled by simple geometry. This myth, either way, can be proven. Someone, by controlling the variables to match the race car, can test this by leaving the torsion bar out, and see if any of this is possible.      

My inspection of the race cars I have seen (K&K...), can not see how the tire can possibly hit the fender. As for the benefit of air flow out the extractors is documented. Any time you can get air from not flowing under the car is benifitial. I bet if you test the vacume (draw) the Bird scoop creates is a tad greater then the Daytona's. Prelim drawings - to me - is not evidence either way. Please - someone test this

Dane

[Aero426]

I am pretty sure everything being said here has already been said in the most recent DC.com thread.      Also, the randyayersmodeling.com site is a wonderful place to learn about old stock cars and do some rivet counting if you care to.   

Before we go too far down the road, I will ask,  "Do we really need another fender scoop thread?"     I don't think there is any new information being offered for or against.  

[Daytona Guy]

I am pretty sure everything being said here has already been said in the most recent thread.    Before we go too far down the road, I will ask,  "Do we really need another fender scoop thread?"     I don't think there is any new information being offered for or against. 

We don't  .  But if these kind of things drive us to prove it, then I'm all for it.

Dane

[WINGIN IT]

I still say let Mythbusters settle it once and for all.
Anyone care to donate their race Daytona ?   

[C5X DAYTONA]

Here is the hand written test you write about.   Problem #1 is...  No date or test #.    The 3/8 wind tunnel test car is alive and well.   Guess what?  Problem #2..   No holes in the fender tops or repairs to the fender tops on the little car.   How could this test be possible if there was no test on the 3/8 car.  There was only one 3/8 wind tunnel car.    

John told me they tested it all at Chelsea.  You did notice the wing is not mentioned - it was not a 'recommended feature' at that time, since this is prior to that being part of the package.    The prototype wing was tested at the Huntsville Airport on DC-93.   A lot can be done without a 3/8 model car!!  

John is correct.  They did test at Chelsea.  Full size car on track, NO WINDTUNNEL.  This is a topic on how the scoops came to be. The original thought of why they are there.   Nothing more.  Your bouncing all over the place.    It's not about the wing or anything else.   The E-Series Test was only the 3/8 scale car.  NOT THE FULL SIZE CAR.    No need to look anywhere else but where they were right BEFORE the Daytona was thought of.   The hand written note with the 3% on the scoop has no test to back it up.  The other items on the note were tested and the photos are available.  You might have too.  Which is awesome that you have the originals. Priceless.  There is no proof of a test on the vent.  But yet everything else was tested.  Now if they really got 3%.  Don't you think there would be one picture or anything dated? 

[C5X DAYTONA]

There are two threads about this topic.    You talk about documents.  Here is my take..  Pointers first drawing.   NO SCOOPS......  

Yes - I own that drawing. They also called it a 1970 Daytona - and that's not correct either.

The drawing is called The 1970 Charger 500...   The Daytona verbiage was later.   But explains the point that he was not thinking about Exhausters till after engineering saw this drawing...   Like Wallace has explained  

[odcics2]

Lets see the vintage Chrysler document that says the scoops were for clearance.  

We have one that says 3% drag reduction...    

If you can produce that, well, I'll change my mind!  

[odcics2]

Here is an email I just received...   


Point out to him that our hero Richard Petty says (and probably believes) that the restored #40 is the #40.     Even though we know it is really the 43. 
Hugh Hawthorne believes he has a real Petty Superbird.  Because Richard told him so.
George believes the fender scoops are for tire clearance.   Because they told him so.

[C5X DAYTONA]

Lets see the vintage Chrysler document that says the scoops were for clearance.  

We have one that says 3% drag reduction...    

If you can produce that, well, I'll change my mind!  

We have all the engineers saying they wanted some insurance on clearance.  ONLY ON THE RF.   Time after time.   Then Pointer made exhauseters.    Like Wallace said.  We told Pointer to make room on the RF top of fender.  What he did with it was his expertise.   What more do you want??  From the mouth of Wallace.  Engineers don't always pass notes.  They do see a problem arriving before a test.  Like they did with the drawing.   You are trying to disprove their word?  The paper is just a note that is not dated on real test that did not take place..    The little car is not a myth.   It is still alive.  In storage at the moment.  And there is no holes on the fender tops, or repairs to the fender tops...  Pointer's note says 3% on an E-Series test.  Don't you get it?   It was never done.