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Author Topic: Idle or timing first  (Read 966 times)
bakerhillpins
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« on: September 20, 2013, 07:34:18 PM »

Trying to find the time to get the timing and idle set on the 69. However, FSM says that the idles need set before the timing. It also says the timing needs set before the idle.  Sounds like I am trying to pull permits from the state. brickwall

Opinions?

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cdr
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2013, 07:56:02 PM »

if you are setting it to stock specs,,set to correct idle speed,,then set timing,then recheck idle speed.
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bakerhillpins
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2013, 08:05:30 PM »

Well that's a good question. Lots of timing threads say to start at 15* but the manuals seem to say to start at 5*?  I am planning on setting stock but I really don't have any idea what the PO's might have built into the engine.

Timing seems like it should be easy but it seems that every thread I find on it is super confusing.  icon_smile_dissapprove
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One great wife (Life is good)
14 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi Crew Cab (the crap hauler)
69 Dodge Charger R/T, Q5, C6X, V1X, V88  (Life is WAY better)
96'VFR750 (Sweet)
86'VF500 (Live long and prosper)
Lt. Lyme Vol. Fire

Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings
myk
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2013, 11:05:39 PM »

Well that's a good question. Lots of timing threads say to start at 15* but the manuals seem to say to start at 5*?  I am planning on setting stock but I really don't have any idea what the PO's might have built into the engine.

Timing seems like it should be easy but it seems that every thread I find on it is super confusing.  icon_smile_dissapprove

I consider the manuals good reference material but I don't put much stock in them any further than that; especially if we're talking about engine operation.  What with the endless combinations of engine pieces that can be put together, timing and all that is best set by "ear," as Ron and others here will tell you.  I went through a timing crusade with Ron and Chryco back-in-the-day (wish I could find that thread), and I ended up setting my initial timing at 18*; every car is different and YMMV...
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firefighter3931
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2013, 05:56:22 AM »

Ignition first....then fuel !   yesnod


Ron
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bakerhillpins
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2013, 06:31:42 AM »

I consider the manuals good reference material but I don't put much stock in them any further than that; especially if we're talking about engine operation.  What with the endless combinations of engine pieces that can be put together, timing and all that is best set by "ear," as Ron and others here will tell you.  I went through a timing crusade with Ron and Chryco back-in-the-day (wish I could find that thread), and I ended up setting my initial timing at 18*; every car is different and YMMV...

You mean this thread?
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,16718.0.html
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One great wife (Life is good)
14 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi Crew Cab (the crap hauler)
69 Dodge Charger R/T, Q5, C6X, V1X, V88  (Life is WAY better)
96'VFR750 (Sweet)
86'VF500 (Live long and prosper)
Lt. Lyme Vol. Fire

Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings
bakerhillpins
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2013, 06:36:53 AM »

Ignition first....then fuel !   yesnod


Ron

Ok, then.  Thanks Ron.   

Anyone have a link to a thread that got them through timing as a noob? I have a feeling it's so simple I am just over complicating it.
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One great wife (Life is good)
14 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi Crew Cab (the crap hauler)
69 Dodge Charger R/T, Q5, C6X, V1X, V88  (Life is WAY better)
96'VFR750 (Sweet)
86'VF500 (Live long and prosper)
Lt. Lyme Vol. Fire

Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings
fy469rtse
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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2013, 03:50:49 AM »

Give us details on your engine , a bit more detail will help,
I did it recently like this , ignition and fuel like Ron said , needed those two things for start up, once break in over , fired it again with advancing distributor to see where it liked to sit , just idling, all the while I had to adjust the idle , got the base setting somewhere good , started easily and idled not bad, good starting point to fine tune it, but I built my motor and new cam shaft and roughly what speed it would probably idle at , this what you were after, you can do a lot by feel and just a timing light , then fine tune it from there
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bakerhillpins
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2013, 07:15:20 AM »

All I know is that its a 70 440 with a stock manifold/carb/headers/heads.  I don't know the cam or the bore and the PO didn't either. I assume since its run on pump gas it's been bored over (prob 30) and of course the seats are done but that don't really help. Oh and I have one huge exhaust leak by #8.

I just rebuilt the carb and want to get it setup decent. Recently, say as recently as the nasty exhaust leak, she warms up really violently. Didn't do that before the leak. Light feather on the throttle and it smooths out. I suppose it could be a collapsed lifter but seems odd that the noise gets louder with load?

After I rebuilt the carb I just dropped it back on the engine with stock idle jet settings (out 1.5 turns) and it's where I have had it for about a month. Once it's warm it idles well but not real smooth so I figured I can probably get the timing with it as it sits.

I figured if I got the idle and timing before the end of the month I would get new exhaust on her this year and do one last big autum cruse with the family. If I can't fit all this in then into storage she goes and I hope next spring is better with time.

Thanks.  cheers
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One great wife (Life is good)
14 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi Crew Cab (the crap hauler)
69 Dodge Charger R/T, Q5, C6X, V1X, V88  (Life is WAY better)
96'VFR750 (Sweet)
86'VF500 (Live long and prosper)
Lt. Lyme Vol. Fire

Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings
Dino
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2013, 07:18:46 AM »

Bryan, although setting timing is first I would still hook up the vacuum gauge and try to get the idle mixture a bit leaner before doing so.  It doesn't hurt anything unlike having the car sit there throwing raw fuel out the back.  My eyes are burning just thinking about it.   eek

Once timing is set, simply repeat the vacuum process to fine tune the idle mixture and speed.

The noise coming from an exhaust leak always sound worse than it is.  Make it a priority to fix the leak before anything else or it will throw off your settings.  Besides, it's quite dangerous to breath in those exhaust fumes.
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bakerhillpins
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2013, 07:46:53 AM »

You mean that I have, Yet another thing to do before I can get to what I want to work on?  rotz

It's out in the front yard that I am doing the work so while it's stinky it's not a closed space.  cheers

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One great wife (Life is good)
14 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi Crew Cab (the crap hauler)
69 Dodge Charger R/T, Q5, C6X, V1X, V88  (Life is WAY better)
96'VFR750 (Sweet)
86'VF500 (Live long and prosper)
Lt. Lyme Vol. Fire

Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings
Dino
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2013, 08:00:26 AM »

Sorry about that but yeah, exhaust leak first.  Undecided

Glad to hear it's in the open, that'll help you from turning green.   2thumbs
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cdr
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« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2013, 09:15:36 AM »

if you are setting the timing at the factory specs you set the idle speed 1st,if you are setting total timing,you would set timing 1st then idle speed.
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bakerhillpins
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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2013, 11:42:10 AM »

if you are setting the timing at the factory specs you set the idle speed 1st,if you are setting total timing,you would set timing 1st then idle speed.

Yea, so....Huh   Not with you here.  What is the difference between factory specs and total then? Why are they any different? I thought I simply set initial timing, then pushed it up to 3k rpm and made sure that I didn't get over 35* with the mechanical advance? Somewhere in here I have to figure out if I am going to be using the vacuum advance.  brickwall
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One great wife (Life is good)
14 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi Crew Cab (the crap hauler)
69 Dodge Charger R/T, Q5, C6X, V1X, V88  (Life is WAY better)
96'VFR750 (Sweet)
86'VF500 (Live long and prosper)
Lt. Lyme Vol. Fire

Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings
cdr
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« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2013, 06:01:52 PM »

people have different opinions,for me,i like to have all the advance in by 2500,2800 & set total at 35 to 37,no vac advance,start at 35 & drive it,if no ping bring it up 1 or 2  Twocents
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