383 bolt-ons/Desktop Dyno Sim

[cudaken]

Brock, I just printed out my results. Is the 2.020 intake and 1.60 exhaust the default vale sizes? Mine has 2.08 intake and 1.74 exhaust valves. I was shocked by how low the flow is on the exhaust side with the Hemi cam at .500 lift, only 130.00 CFM versus the intake side at 219.00.

Other eye opener was how little of a gain the 509 lift cam had over the Hemi grind cam. Hemi cam was a head till 4500 RPM, then both where at 390 HP. Maybe because of the smaller than stock valves?

Ken, and thank you.

[cougs]

Brock, I just printed out my results. Is the 2.020 intake and 1.60 exhaust the default vale sizes? Mine has 2.08 intake and 1.74 exhaust valves. I was shocked by how low the flow is on the exhaust side with the Hemi cam at .500 lift, only 130.00 CFM versus the intake side at 219.00.

Other eye opener was how little of a gain the 509 lift cam had over the Hemi grind cam. Hemi cam was a head till 4500 RPM, then both where at 390 HP. Maybe because of the smaller than stock valves?

Ken, and thank you.

Ken,
Are you saying that the sim said 2.02/1.6 for the valve sizes?  I'm showing that I ran it for 2.08/1.74.  Let me know.

As for the marginal increase when going to a bigger cam...I see that a lot when I'm trying more aggressive profiles.  I think it's because we're limited by the flow of the stock heads.  Running more cam actually makes the car slower at times although peak hp may go up.

[cudaken]

Brock, on page 3 of the print out it does say Test Diameter IT 2.02 EX 1.60. 

Ken

[firefighter3931]

I'd be interested to see a dyno sym using the 509 in a 383.....even with stock heads it should pull hard to 6400-6500 rpm. 


Ron

[cudaken]

 
Ron, not in my book! Now this is with the undersized valves.

         509    HP     Torque            Hemi Cam         HP     Torque

2000 RPM   140   368                                       146     385

3000 RPM   234   410                                       244     427

4000 RPM   342   449                                       348     457   

5000 RPM   424   445                                       423     445

5500 RPM   441   421                                       443     414

6000 RPM   433   379                                       423     370

6500 RPM   396   320                                       369     298   

7000 RPM   344   258                                       318     239         

Only reason I bought the 509 cam was for a later project that had nasty 906 heads with, gosh about $2000 worth of work. Had Maxie Wedge valves and tons of flow work. But I got side tracked.  I need to add that was 15 years ago.

With the correct valve sizes 509 should fair better, but will lose some more bottom end.

I have all so asked for the Voodoo specks. Much easier to read than the grafts posted here.

Ken

[70sixpkrt]

Cougs I got your email. Wow. Those are the numbers I was expecting. Thanks for spending the time on doing this. This was my last time slip. I was in the left lane.

[cougs]

I'd be interested to see a dyno sym using the 509 in a 383.....even with stock heads it should pull hard to 6400-6500 rpm. 


Ron

Here're the results of the two cams......284/284 .484/.484 vs. 292/292 .509/.509.  I'll let you guess which is which!  I also adjusted the elevation to 600 ft at 68 degrees.  I had it set to 1,000 feet earlier which is my elevation.  Elevation and temperature make a big difference as we all know

[Cooter]

That .484 241@ .050 purple shaft pulls great if you got the compression.

[70sixpkrt]

And this is my cam card.

[firefighter3931]

I'd be interested to see a dyno sym using the 509 in a 383.....even with stock heads it should pull hard to 6400-6500 rpm.  


Ron

Here're the results of the two cams......284/284 .484/.484 vs. 292/292 .509/.509.  I'll let you guess which is which!  I also adjusted the elevation to 600 ft at 68 degrees.  I had it set to 1,000 feet earlier which is my elevation.  Elevation and temperature make a big difference as we all know

Thanks for posting that.   It's pretty obvoious that the lower compression responds better to the smaller cam. This is why cam selection is such a critical component in the build process.

Here's a good one if you're interested to see how badly the wrong cam can make an engine run. Mike was running the MP 590 solid in his 440 and after a few tweaks were made it really came around. The engine was re-dynoed at the same facility by the same operator so the numbers are reliable. I knew what the outcome would be but it's nice to see the numbers there in black and white.  

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,6000.0.html

*pay close attention to the graphs on page 1 comparing the original combo to the re-tweaked version. At 3500 rpm it picked up over 140ftlbs of torque.  

Ya think this puppy was overcammed and mismatched ?  



Ron

[1974dodgecharger]

I'd be interested to see a dyno sym using the 509 in a 383.....even with stock heads it should pull hard to 6400-6500 rpm. 


Ron

me too since thats what I have....

[cougs]

Hey Brock,

I would install new springs and upgrade the pushrods. If the rockers are in good shape just run them. 

Here's your shopping list ;

Valvesprings : http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cca-911-16/overview/

3 bolt timing set : http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cca-2109/overview/make/dodge

Heavy duty chrome moly pushrods : http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/hydbchromemoly.html

Hyd lifters : http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,95605.0.html


As for the carb, with a heavy car and a 383 i would recommend a vac secondary 750 street series proform carb. You also need a throttle adapter (Holley 20-7)


That's a neat program and it looks to be pretty close to what a dyno would show. I have an ancient version of desktop dyno and don't even bother using it anymore.


Ron
[/quote]

Ron,
Should I replace the spring locks and retainers while I'm replacing springs?  I'm trying to keep this on a budget but if i'm going to be there.....   

thx,
Brock

[firefighter3931]

Ron,
Should I replace the spring locks and retainers while I'm replacing springs?  I'm trying to keep this on a budget but if i'm going to be there.....   

thx,
Brock

Brock, The 7* stock stuff is fine with those spring pressures as long as they are in good shape. 


Ron

[cougs]

Ron,
Should I replace the spring locks and retainers while I'm replacing springs?  I'm trying to keep this on a budget but if i'm going to be there.....   

thx,
Brock

Brock, The 7* stock stuff is fine with those spring pressures as long as they are in good shape. 


Ron

Thanks, are the new valvesprings required for the lift of the cam or is it just good to do?  The car has the original springs which were checked out 6,000 miles ago (keep in mind this WAS 1994)

[c00nhunterjoe]

My set up, similar to the 509 cam using bone stock 516 heads with specs entered from moparts on heads. I would say its relatively close. My heads hurt me alot but on a good night i pull 105-108 in the 1/4.

[firefighter3931]

Ron,
Should I replace the spring locks and retainers while I'm replacing springs?  I'm trying to keep this on a budget but if i'm going to be there.....   

thx,
Brock

Brock, The 7* stock stuff is fine with those spring pressures as long as they are in good shape. 


Ron

Thanks, are the new valvesprings required for the lift of the cam or is it just good to do?  The car has the original springs which were checked out 6,000 miles ago (keep in mind this WAS 1994)

It's a combination of both lift and spring rate. The more aggressive lobe requires additional coil bind room and open/seat pressure.


Ron

[stuubi]

I'd be interested to see a dyno sym using the 509 in a 383.....even with stock heads it should pull hard to 6400-6500 rpm.  


Ron

Here're the results of the two cams......284/284 .484/.484 vs. 292/292 .509/.509.  I'll let you guess which is which!  I also adjusted the elevation to 600 ft at 68 degrees.  I had it set to 1,000 feet earlier which is my elevation.  Elevation and temperature make a big difference as we all know

Interesting numbers for 284 cam,would you be interested to make some changes,just to copy my plan for my 383?Cam is same but there's few mod's i'm planning to run..
maybe we can pm?

Pete

[Mebsuta]

nm

[stuubi]

Maybe not then,sorry for the Q.

Reason i asked was that my EA program stalled on me,and i takes few week's to get new one.
I have my own engine balancing between few mod's.

But no harm done.

Thanks anyway.