69 Charger 500

[Rat Exterminator]

Listed my 69 500 in for sale section. It will end up being discussed here because of what it is but i wanted to be completely honest about what the car is. see description, but hopefully someone here might want to save the car like it should be. Thanks Greg

[marshallfry01]

Do you have any pics you can post up?

[fy469rtse]

yep , looking for my next car to restore ,
, picks please and as much info as you can provide
Geoff

[nascarxx29]

  Classifieds / Cars For Sale / 69 Charger 500  on: Today at 05:37:16 PM 

For Sale 69 Charger 500, 426, 727, B5 with white stripe, white interior. Car was restored 15 yrs ago, when repop parts were limited. As a mopar rookie, I took the advice to move parts to another car (rebody) and although it is a beautiful car, I am being completely honest so no one is deceived. Bought the car and matching numbers drive train from Steve Fox. Since the plan was to run the pure stock drags, left the numbers block and tranny on a stand and Best Machine assembled new MP block and heads that he felt would run 12's. In 2009 pure stocks, car ran best time of 13.07, with 4:10 Dana, (original 8 3/4 car). See Muscle Car review article Feb 2010. Car comes w/ redlines and dogdishes, not the recall wheels shown in the magazine. Three years ago car appraised for $125K.  Priced @  $79,995

Also available to purchaser only. Original car, needs quarters, doors, fenders, floorpans, trunkpans and rearplug which was moved to restored car. #'s block,and tranny,  probably restamped by previous owner, date coded heads, 67 hemi carbs, intake. 28' enclosed car trailer w/ winch in which the car has been stored for 13 yrs. I do have title for rebodied  N code charger which could be assigned salvage vin by local PD if person wanted to move Hemi vin numbers back to original car and then sell, or drive rebodied car as a clone. Price 10K.

rebodied car is beautiful, but from a purist point of view, original car could still be saved and restored for maximum value.  gregcanfield@aol.com

[richRTSE]

I think this is probably the car....

http://youtu.be/OeBSisbgFsw

[Nwcharger]

Put all numbers back the way they should be on both cars and then sell them. Don't sell them or even list them the way they are now. Sell the 500 as a project and sell the restored car as a clone.

[500Jon]

Wonderful car at a good price!

Now you have owned up to a reboby, maybe best to sell as one deal?
One should not be sold without the other and both reverted back to original set-up.
Therefore a price for both and not a separate price for each.
This implies one can be sold without the other?

Clear as mud as usual...

Is this car actually legal to sell in some US States?
Or overseas...

[RallyeMike]

If I'm reading this right, a total of $89k asking price for an original hemi 500 hulk including the hemi engine and trans, a very nice clone hemi 500, and a 28' enclosed trailer?

The re-body issue sounds like a mess, but an interesting one for the overachiever type! End up with two Hemi 500's in the end.

Anyone know what VIN this car is? I don't know of any original B5/White hemi auto cars.

[BigBlockSam]

 

[nascarxx29]

Gene Gregory whos on ebay was a previous owner .Wonder what back history he knows of.Found this info on older post

. When I purchased the car, 9 years ago as a basket case it had Rat Exterminator painted across the doors, (old drag car) B5 Blue, white gut, stripe delete car(V88). Looking to run in the Pure Stock Drags 30 minutes away this fall.
Car had Gean Gregory's name on the title when I transferred it but I don't know any history other than that. Anybody else? I added the white stripe and a Dana (becauseI like to drive these cars like they were built to be driven). Chuck at Best Machine built the Hemi with a new MP block, #'s block is in the garage. and I will drive it like I stole it!. Pulled up in front of a friends house with W-30 442. Nailed it at 25, but  because it was uphill, spun thru 1st, 2nd AND 3rdup to about 80, left black marks for a block. At this rate the redlines won't last long but what a rush it is to have fun like this. If I have a bad day at work, 2 minutes in the car makes it go away. Enough rambling, cool video.   Greg

[BigBlockSam]

this thread needs pictures

[Daytona R/T SE]

B5 Blue, white gut,
Car had Gean Gregory's name on the title when I transferred it

I'm pretty sure I saw that car at Gene's shop several years ago ( 25  +? )

I don't remember anything written on the doors, but how many blue 500's could Gene possibly have had ?  

It was pretty rusty at the time.

The engine wasn't in it and he wanted what I then thought was crazy money for it.

I think he wanted $6000.  

[nascarxx29]

Found this 1998 ad  for it 1969 Hemi Charger 500 automatic b5 blue with white interior PS PB matching numbers drive train rebuilt needs body work excellent 1969 western charger goes with $25,000 Call 502 491-3459 or 228-8118 in KY

[500Jon]

The Rat is outta the bag da the rebodee situasions!

Or in English...
Honesty is NOT always the best policy???

5J

[hemi68charger]

...Honesty is NOT always the best policy???

5J

Depends on which side of the fence you're on.......... 

[Charger-Bodie]

Honestly is ALWAYS the best policy. This car is a perfect example. There would be nothing wrong with rebodies if everyone would have been this honest about them from the start. The laws were about theft when it started. To me if the bulk of the other parts are still there. The doner shell is just parts to fix a car. Just like if there was a big pile of Chinese panel laying there. IMHO 

[odcics2]

There has to be a definition for "restoration" and "recreation".   

Currently, the Feds say a "recreation" involving a street car with a title is a felony.
I understand it was started to thwart thefts, way before the 'old' cars had value to them.

A new car was stolen, title-tag swapped, and sold for profit.
Today, an old car is found, rotted to nothing, title-tag swapped, and sold for profit.

Hey,wait....       

I guess the question remains:  Would all this time and effort ($$,$$$.) go into a car worth nothing when completed?   

At what point does the resto become a recreation?      What % of the car has to be original?     


Just raising some questions... 

[held1823]

The doner shell is just parts to fix a car.

WITH its own VIN

Just like if there was a big pile of Chinese panel laying there.

WITHOUT its own VIN

is there not some distinction between the two scenarios?

At what point does the resto become a recreation?

certainly when the VIN from a valuable car is transferred to a donor shell that already has a VIN of its own.

the law may have been written in regard to theft back in its day but its intent is still the same - no VIN is to be removed from one car and placed on another car. not then, not now, not ever.

[Charger-Bodie]

The doner shell is just parts to fix a car.

WITH its own VIN

Just like if there was a big pile of Chinese panel laying there.

WITHOUT its own VIN

is there not some distinction between the two scenarios?

At what point does the resto become a recreation?

certainly when the VIN from a valuable car is transferred to a donor shell that already has a VIN of its own.

the law may have been written in regard to theft back in its day but its intent is still the same - no VIN is to be removed from one car and placed on another car. not then, not now, not ever.

So I can use a used door that has a vin sticker on it? All used parts come from a different vin. 

[Charger-Bodie]

There has to be a definition for "restoration" and "recreation".   

Currently, the Feds say a "recreation" involving a street car with a title is a felony.
I understand it was started to thwart thefts, way before the 'old' cars had value to them.

A new car was stolen, title-tag swapped, and sold for profit.
Today, an old car is found, rotted to nothing, title-tag swapped, and sold for profit.

Hey,wait....       

I guess the question remains:  Would all this time and effort ($$,$$$.) go into a car worth nothing when completed?   

At what point does the resto become a recreation?      What % of the car has to be original?     


Just raising some questions... 

My point is that if it weren't for the law,people could and most would be honest about what's been done to the car. It may still effect the value,but if there's a complete but rusty  Hemi Charger  sitting along side of a clean picked over 318 charger I don't really see this as as big of a problem as some do.

[BigBlockSam]

why no pics? is it that bad?

[held1823]

if there's a complete but rusty  Hemi Charger  sitting along side of a clean picked over 318 charger I don't really see this as as big of a problem as some do.

so what is the problem with bolting the hemi stuff onto the 318 car and using its VIN? you'd still have a completed "hemi car" with far less body work involved, and one without any VIN swapping issues whatsoever.

you answer your own question through the importance of which VIN plate you prefer to use on the finished product.

[Charger-Bodie]

if there's a complete but rusty  Hemi Charger  sitting along side of a clean picked over 318 charger I don't really see this as as big of a problem as some do.

so what is the problem with bolting the hemi stuff onto the 318 car and using its VIN? you'd still have a completed "hemi car" with far less body work involved, and one without any VIN swapping issues whatsoever.

you answer your own question through the importance of which VIN plate you prefer to use on the finished product.

That's why I said bare shell ... No dash or title.

[held1823]

wouldn't that bare shell have once carried a VIN of its own? if the core support and trunk rail are in place, the numbers should still be there even with the dash gone.

bolting a rusty hemi car's dash (with its still attached VIN plate) into a bare shell (with its own dash VIN removed and a MIA title) would make for a very gray area when trying to pass it off as the hemi car, i would think.

i'm bowing out of this thread, as my opinion often does not sit well with others.

[Redmanf1]

I believe if for any reason the car was checked into by the law or insurance company such as an accident the car would be confiscated. At least we know the body is not stolen so as proof of such the title is shown as evidence. The next thing they would be wanting to know is who changed the tags. Then the can of worms is opened with multiple charges involved. It is illegal to pull a Vin tag and install it on another body issued a vin, it's that simple. The legal way to use multiple issued vin parts is to have proof of purchase of most items and then have a state vin issued. This in which would cancel the whole reason to rebody..

[Kowal]

I believe if for any reason the car was checked into by the law or insurance company such as an accident the car would be confiscated. At least we know the body is not stolen so as proof of such the title is shown as evidence. The next thing they would be wanting to know is who changed the tags. Then the can of worms is opened with multiple charges involved. It is illegal to pull a Vin tag and install it on another body issued a vin, it's that simple. The legal way to use multiple issued vin parts is to have proof of purchase of most items and then have a state vin issued. This in which would cancel the whole reason to rebody..

I will give North Carolina some credit here.   They send a state trooper from the stolen vehicles group to inspect all classic cars that are titled.   They spend solid time checking the VIN and proof that the car is what it is.   A friend of mine got a pick up truck from the "world's largest" auction and North Carolina figured out it was actually three trucks and issued him a salvage title and came and pop riveted a new VIN plate to the frame.   A pain to arrange, but better than most states...South Carolina seems to take your word that the vehicle is even in the state.

My Charger is one of the early ones where the fender tag and the Vin have different letter prefixes (XS, XX), took weeks for North Carolina to investigate and then eventually come back and agree that it was OK.  

[charger_fan_4ever]

Transfer the vin back to the 500 shell sell the clone with its original numbers back in place to fund the restore on the c500. 

[richRTSE]

If the body numbers are still on the original 500 shell, then I'd definitely put everything back the way it should be...if I were to buy this car(s). If the body numbers are now on the current body with the matching dash vin, and the original shell is just a hulk with no numbers, no window plug, etc., I don't really see the point of going through all the trouble. Once all the numbers are cut off, what makes one shell different than another shell without numbers? What's done is done I guess, unfortunately....