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Author Topic: Newer type alternator. Pics.  (Read 17093 times)
clausoe
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« on: October 21, 2006, 12:51:04 PM »

I've been meaning to post this for quite some time so here it is. I have, like many other old mopar owners had some serious charging problems with my charger.  Several malfunctioning regulators, blown alternators and finally two fried coils due to 19 volts suddenly on the system. The pics show a cheap way to fix the problem. I searched through all the used alternators on the shelf at the local junkyard and found this one that fit right in with the correct pulley offset and only needing a modified slide-bracket. It is internally regulated and only needs 2 wires, one from the ignition and the thick one to the battery. It chargers a constant 14,5 volts at any rpm and at idle with the headlights, heating fan AND electric cooling fan on it's around 13 volts, beautiful. It' worked all summer. Unfortunately I don't know exactly what car it comes from exept that it is an early 90s mitsubishi alternator from a mazda, so it should be possible to find out.


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dkn1997
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2006, 06:34:34 PM »

I did the same thing. I used an 02 alt off a ram van.  externally regulated just like a stocker and fits into stock brackets.  had to cut about 1/2" off one of the stock spacers.  here's a pic.  ran a 4g wire to starter relay to handle the 130 amps.


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NorwayCharger
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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2006, 12:43:03 PM »

I did the same thing. I used an 02 alt off a ram van.  externally regulated just like a stocker and fits into stock brackets.  had to cut about 1/2" off one of the stock spacers.  here's a pic.  ran a 4g wire to starter relay to handle the 130 amps.

This guy have it all http://www.magnumhp.com/alttech.php
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dkn1997
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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2006, 12:51:50 PM »

not necessary for any type of custom brackets if installing a mopar denso onto a 440 at least, suspect it's the same for s/b too.  everything's the same except for:

trim one spacer
add 4g charge wire from alt to starter relay
put 70's GM regular groove pulley on (replaces serpentine pulley that comes on alt)
add a nut to the adjuster bolt.


I cannot speak for any other combos, but if you use a 130amp alt off an 02 RAM van (V8) on a 440, it's very close to a bolt in.  I like the denso because it's externally regulated, so wiring changes are very minimal if your car had dual field already.  Mine didn't and it was stil easy. total cost under 150 bucks.  ebay has the denso's all the time, dirt cheap.
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2Gunz
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2007, 11:53:39 PM »



The 98 Alt from a Dodge Van is almost exactly the one you have Dkn1997 Except....

It comes with a 2 belt V pulley already. Which is just a hair to big to get full voltage at idle.

But its dam close.

And it does not  have that pigtail connector for the regulator. It just uses 2 bolts.

Thats what I put in my car, thanks to you actually. You gave me the idea and I started

looking for the closer match.

One of the best upgrades to date.

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2Gunz
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2007, 12:01:14 AM »


Oh and

The alternator can be found at Pepboys and is 117 or 127 amps I forget.

The Voltage regulator can be found in stock at Autozone.

The Voltage regulator pigtail You can also get from Autozone but its special order.

I believe the regulator is the same from 1971 to 1989 in most or all Dodge cars.  Nacho?

Because this confused the wizards at Autozone (sarcasm off) I asked for a regulator from a 1973

dodge charger.


And dont forget to beef up the wiring if you go this route or you could have a fire.
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2Gunz
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2007, 05:25:18 AM »

Some pictures..........


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2Gunz
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2007, 05:26:26 AM »

Few more


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2Gunz
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2007, 05:54:37 PM »



Oh....  I might be mistaken ... I think its an 1989 Alt.
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2Gunz
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2008, 03:14:46 PM »



I have received a few PM's about this.

I called and looked into it.

Its for a 1989 Dodge cargo van with a 318 engine.

I was also told it it would have come from pretty much anything that year with a 318 in it.

Hope this helps.
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myk
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2008, 03:20:51 PM »

Yes it does, thank you very much.  Now, did you have to 'mod the 'alt in any way like Dave did with his '02 'alt?  Such as trimming spacers, fabbing connectors, pulleys, etc.
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2Gunz
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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2008, 05:14:42 AM »

The only thing you have to do is cut the one spacer that connects to the head I believe.

It been a long time and I forget. Really it was pretty easy.

This is one of the bonuses with this alternator.

And really the credit goes to the poster who started this thread and others.

I went looking for a closer match and thats what I found.

It comes with a dual V-belt pully and it has bolts not a plug for the field wires.

So you dont have to go looking for that stuff.


You will need a newer style regulator (ask for a 73 charger one) and pigtail for it.

And you will need to add another wire or 2 to the battery for the alternator.

This will render the Amp gauge useless (well it will move but it wont be accurate).

Personally I bypassed that a long time ago anyway, and recommend that everybody do it before you have a fire.

There are ways around it and to make it work. Search some of Nachos threads.

Ive been threating to make an over/under charge led for it, or turning my amp gauge into a volt gauge,
but havent dont it yet.

Good luck and if you have more questions please ask.


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Goodz
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« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2008, 05:31:28 AM »

What year cars is this good for.  I have a 71, so can I do the same thing with mine.  The one I have currently seems to work, but they spray painted it silver (to try and fool me into thinking it was new, I guess.  LOL) and doesnt look that good.. 
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myk
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« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2008, 09:47:47 AM »

You mean putting on a newer 'alt?  It should be good for all, as the bracketry hasn't seemed to change much over the years.  DKN just had to shave a spacer and an output stud.  Sounds to me like Gunz's '89 'alt needed the least amount of work.  Also, 90 amps is more than these cars will ever need.  Let's do this! 

Watch me fry my wiring harness, lol...
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Goodz
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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2008, 12:46:55 PM »

I really just wanted to know which new alt from what car i should get that will fit in my 71 Charger.  they cant all fit, right?  lol
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myk
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2008, 02:43:54 PM »

Oh, go for a 90 amp 'alt for an '89 Dodge van...
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2Gunz
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2008, 03:19:48 PM »



Pretty much all the newer alts are going to need the same thing done.

New regulator and adding a power wire or 2.

The one I used just doesnt need a different pulley and pigtail.



The one wire alternators from powermasters or whatever wont need the regulator.

They will still need the added power wire.

But I wouldnt recommend one.  The internally regulated style isnt as good as externally regulated.

Plus if you break down in the middle of Know where you cant get a replacement fast.
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Goodz
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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2008, 06:42:52 AM »

THANKS GUYS.  I WILL LOOK INTO THAT.
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stroked438
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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2008, 09:06:30 AM »

I am going to call the local O'Reilly's and check on an alt for the 02 van. I have March Billet brackets and Serpentine pulleys so that would work out pretty good for me. I have a new Painless wiring harness in the car so the wiring shouldn't be a problem. I have dual electric cooling fans, headlights and a Amp and stereo going in so I can probably use the 130 amp alt.
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myk
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2008, 01:52:40 AM »

Just an update on this new 'alt 'mod that I've decided to do.  I decided to go with an '89 'alt that's rated at 90 amps. 

1. The output stud's plastic shield thing is preventing me from mounting the 'alt, so I'm either going to have to shave it down really low or remove it completely.  Honestly, I don't like how close the stud sits to the block.  I'm going to place a rubber cap on it after the power wires are hooked up, hopefully that will keep the 'alt from having any contact issues.

2.  My stock wires in the harness (the brown and black ones) that would normally go to the 'output stud may have to be lengthened, because the output stud on the '89 'alt is on the other side.  I'll also have to lengthen the two field wires as well, because the field terminals are now on the bottom end of the 'alt.

3.  Maybe I've got the wrong adjusting bracket, but my '89 'alt only lines up with the bracket at the very end of the sliding zone.  I'll definitely have to get a smaller belt or else I won't be able to tighten this thing up.

Even with these issues I'm sure I'll be able to get this 'alt to work.  If not, I've got a near new '70 'alt waiting to be used again...
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2Gunz
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2008, 05:54:22 PM »



Did you pick the Alt that Im using?
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myk
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« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2008, 02:15:37 AM »

Yes I did.  I figured the 130 amp would probably destroy what's left of the wiring, so I decided that the 90 amp is more than this car will ever need anyway.  Besides, there are trucks with heavier electrical loads out there running this 'alt!.  Asides from shimming down factory spacers, making a couple of splices and rigging that twin 10g wire the installation was a snap.  By the way, how did you connect the violet and brown wire that hooks up to the output stud on the 'alt?  I had to splice my wires into a longer one to reach under and then behind the 'alt.

Disappointingly however, electrical performance is still lacking.  True, the lights are blindingly bright, the battery has never been charged better and I can almost FEEL a stronger ignition, but at idle I'm still getting a weak charge (12v), flickering headlights and dashlights along with everything else.  I'm figuring that checking into the rest of the electrical system and correcting any weaknesses will probably fix the problem for good; I'm thinking bulkhead connectors right now.

Overall I'm satisfied with the installation, and I thank 2Gunz and DKN1997 for the inspiration and direction that was needed to make this work.  Those of you who aren't seeking concourse correct trophy queens/spider vacation homes should follow this route also...
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dkn1997
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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2008, 07:20:06 AM »

admitedly, I have not gone over this thread with a fine tooth comb, but myk, I have to ask if you ran an extra heavy (6 or 4 gauge) wire from the pos stud on your new alt directly to the battery or the pos on the starter relay?  If not, you run a serious risk of burning that baby down to the ground. 
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2Gunz
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« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2008, 03:10:37 PM »



I used crimp on eyelets to connect the field wires.

I also dont have problems at idle....

Slightly less than above 1000 RPM but not that low.

I would check and make sure your "sense" wire is hooked correctly.


As far as the wiring according to these charts 10 Gauge wire is good for 100 amps at 10 feet.

http://www.fastronixsolutions.com/wire%20gauge%20table.htm

And

http://www.tessco.com/yts/industry/products/itm/automotive/get_wired.html


I personally find that to be overly optimistic especially in a hot environment.

So I ran two 10 gauge wires.

The 10 gauge wire is easier to manage and can be found cheap anywhere.



I
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myk
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« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2008, 01:38:06 AM »

admitedly, I have not gone over this thread with a fine tooth comb, but myk, I have to ask if you ran an extra heavy (6 or 4 gauge) wire from the pos stud on your new alt directly to the battery or the pos on the starter relay?  If not, you run a serious risk of burning that baby down to the ground. 

I REALLY wanted to run a 4g wire from the 'alt to the relay but I wasn't sure how to fit such a big cable and matching ring connector onto the tiny output stud or even route such a huge wire, so I went with 2Gunz' route and placed two 10g wires together instead.  Even the twin 10g wires are a bit to handle and don't really want to follow my routing attempts, but it's all good.  I'd definitely like to hear what you used and how you put a big 4g cable onto the output stud.  By the way the wires are fused with a 40 amp blade type fuse; is that a good amp rating for a fuse?  Also, did you ever get around to fusing your 4g cable?

I used crimp on eyelets to connect the field wires.
I also dont have problems at idle....
Slightly less than above 1000 RPM but not that low.
I would check and make sure your "sense" wire is hooked correctly.

Hmm.  My idle's at about 6 to 700 RPM.  Maybe it's too low?  I was always taught to leave the idle as low as possible so as to lessen the shock on the 'trans when I go into gear. 

I used a variety of crimp on eyelets and butt connectors, but I'd really like to go back in and solder everything.   

By the way, which one of the 'alt wires is the "sense" wire?  Is it the blue one?   
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