Alt. Fuel

[Steve P.]

Today on TRUCKS, they are showing the use of french fry greese to replace diesel fuel..

1:30 PM. Eastern time...   Spike TV....

[Troy]

What will people do when everyone wants used french fry grease and the places that are giving it away free right now can charge whatever they want for it? It is a limited commodity and when demand gets high enough the price will follow. Just something to think about...

Troy

[Steve P.]

Put our FARMERS back in business........


I don't know that this is the answer, but I know it can be done..

This is how GAS got it's start...   

I just think we need better solutions..

[MoparYoungGun]

I've seen that episode. Very interesting. The bio diesel is also suppose to give you added performance as well.

[Mopar440+6]

TCP All I have to say...

[Steve P.]

TCP All I have to say...

HUH??

[Mopar440+6]

Click the link

[RD]

that TCP looks phenomenal, I think I will research more about it.  Thanks for the heads up, I love new technological developments.

[Steve P.]

This show was using a different aproach that I have heard of but not what I have been reading about..  This may be due to ,  1) use in many climats.  2) not needing to alter your vehicle.


My buddy is a used car dealer here in Florida. He is going to look for a ratty old diesel for us to tinker with..

What we are planning is just to skim and strain used veggie oil. Heat it and send it to the engine.. Many sites are doing this. The news here has shown a club in St. Pete doing this. They say they don't even heat the veggie oil due to our warm temps here.. The  (TROY) of their club says he has not used nor paid for diesel since 1998..

7 years of fuel costs?!?!?!?!  Makes you think.....

As far as everyone doing it.....  I don't see it happening.. Most will pay and pay rather than make a change..

[bull]

What will people do when everyone wants used french fry grease and the places that are giving it away free right now can charge whatever they want for it? It is a limited commodity and when demand gets high enough the price will follow. Just something to think about...

Troy

The govt. will start requiring that each American eat 3 lbs. of fries a day to keep up with demand and health care costs will skyrocket even more because everyone is so grossly obese. We'll be spending $.50/gal. on french fry grease and $2,200/mo. on health care premiums.

[Steve P.]

Don't forget about the doughnuts!!!

[bull]

Don't forget about the doughnuts!!!

Who could forget those?

[Drop Top]

I wonder if the guy behind, smelling the exhaust, will get hungry. 

[Troy]

What will people do when everyone wants used french fry grease and the places that are giving it away free right now can charge whatever they want for it? It is a limited commodity and when demand gets high enough the price will follow. Just something to think about...

Troy

The govt. will start requiring that each American eat 3 lbs. of fries a day to keep up with demand and health care costs will skyrocket even more because everyone is so grossly obese. We'll be spending $.50/gal. on french fry grease and $2,200/mo. on health care premiums.

Troy

[Troy]

7 years of fuel costs?!?!?!?!  Makes you think.....

As far as everyone doing it.....  I don't see it happening.. Most will pay and pay rather than make a change..

Until it gets to be unbearable for most people (which is a much higher price point than it's at currently).

Troy

[Duey]

This show was using a different aproach that I have heard of but not what I have been reading about..   This may be due to ,   1) use in many climats.   2) not needing to alter your vehicle.


My buddy is a used car dealer here in Florida. He is going to look for a ratty old diesel for us to tinker with..

What we are planning is just to skim and strain used veggie oil. Heat it and send it to the engine.. Many sites are doing this. The news here has shown a club in St. Pete doing this. They say they don't even heat the veggie oil due to our warm temps here.. The   (TROY) of their club says he has not used nor paid for diesel since 1998..

7 years of fuel costs?!?!?!?!   Makes you think.....

As far as everyone doing it.....   I don't see it happening.. Most will pay and pay rather than make a change..

Steve, a friend of mine makes biodiesel and I've run it in my Jetta TDI for a couple of tanks...the engine runs quite smoothly and I don't smell any "french fry" smell from the exhaust...   This is Biodiesel made from "transesterization"...basically using some chemicals (acids and bases) to break the longer chain vegetable oils into shorter chain molecules that more closely resemble fossil diesel.   You can also run straight veggie oil (called SVO by the biodiesel crowd) without esterizing the oil, but you will have to compensate for the veggie oil's longer molecular chain by heating the fuel before the injection pump.   The downside to all the heating rig for the SVO is that you avoid the chemical stuff and manual labour of treating, mixing and cleaning the fuel to get the final product.

Fair bit of info here: http://www.veggiepower.org.uk/ and http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html


...and you can get a highly recommended book about biodiesel here: From the fryer to the fuel tank.

I think with chemical cost and free used oil from local restaurants, you'd be looking at about 60-75 ¢/gal.   

Cheers,
Duey

[Crazy440]

I'll put my foot in it, by saying,"Americans are too complacent and stupid to recognize the benefits of Bio-Desel and E85".  Much less, demand the use of it. Let the other guy do it.  Why on Earth would we want to use soy beans and corn, when we still have oil to buy from Opec?  Makes sense to me...

[bull]

I'll put my foot in it, by saying,"Americans are too complacent and stupid to recognize the benefits of Bio-Desel and E85".   Much less, demand the use of it. Let the other guy do it.   Why on Earth would we want to use soy beans and corn, when we still have oil to buy from Opec?   Makes sense to me...

These kind of things only work on a wide scale when it becomes convenient on a wide scale. When it becomes easier and cheaper to use alternative fuels then it will become the norm. However, as usual, there will have to be a catesrophic shortage of the common fuels before it will ever become mainstream, mainly because it is not a convenient outlet at this point. Everything is fine if there is a place to buy biodiesel on your way home from work but what about long trips? Are you going to plan your vacations around biodiesel stations? Outcry won't mean jack squat as long as the oil companies feel they can make more money on the common fuels, no matter what they say in their commercials. I personally won't participate in these so-called earth-saving measures until someone is smart enough and powerful enough to make it convenient and price effective for me to switch. But you also have to figure out if these measures are just feel-good measures or if they actually have any practical value to them. Take recycling for instance. Recycling has become widespread in my area but think about how much more diesel fuel is burned so that all those trucks can visit every little community to pick up recycling. Have we really gotten anywhere? We're supposedly saving trees, glass, iron ore and petroleum for plastics and yet we're probably burning 7 times the diesel to collect it all. Kinda goofy if you ask me.

[Duey]

To be honest, the small crowd making and using biodiesel are most definitely not the norm.  Heck, in North America, automotive diesels aren't the norm.  Folks still have bad memories of GM's botched 5.7 Olds diesel, which to be honest wasn't really that bad if GM had properly programmed the TH350 tranny to use the engine's greater torque at lower RPM, not making it rev like a gasser and wonder why no forward acceleration but lots of smoke...  Anyway, I figure it will remain a small bunch of folks who like to tinker with stuff and get more out of making their own fuel than they really do for the business case.  In fact, I think if you look at the total energy cycle costs, growing crop to turn into Canola oil to process into biodiesel may actually be several time more polluting than burning original dino diesel in the first place....but, remember only a small, quirky bunch are going to make and use this stuff anyway.  Personally, I like the fact that I'm not being taxed on it (....yet  )

Cheers,
Duey

[hemihead]

If any new , cheap fuel or engineering technology is discoveed it will be taxed,the cost will be elevated for the purpose of greed or some whimey yuppie group will cry about the enviroment.And you can bet the big oil men don't want it.

[Troy]

Duey, for my own research, has anyone provided a cost analysis of what it actually takes (in time and fuel) to go pick up the used vegetable oil? Is this included or is it considered "free"? I suppose that I can't really try it until I buy a diesel vehicle.

Troy

[Steve P.]

From what I have read and seen on the news, the use of Veggie Oil goes something like this..

1) Diesel vehicle must be fitted with a second fuel tank. This tank can be as big or small as you can fit.     

Example:         The guy on the local news had a Benz with a small tank in his trunk, (mounted), and two 6 gallon plastic cans to pick up used oil. Another guy I saw on TV was part of a group that proved it's use by driving across the country on veggie oil.. He had a late model Dodge 4 door duelly with about 7 or 8 55 gallon plastic drums full of veggie oil.. He made it and had plenty to spare..

2) The tank must be fitted with a heat exchanger to heat the VO over 115*. The hot water to the heat exchanger is a byproduct of the running engine.. Simple!!

3) From the VO tank and the diesel tank must be diverter valves. The valves are used to switch from diesel to VO and back. + it is a good idea to set up your fuel gauge to switch at the same time for obvious reasons.

4) You will also need a place to set up a few barrels for straining and storage... Keep in mind, this is vegetable oil, not rocket fuel.. Most of us store much more potent stuff now!!


It works like this:  

1) You make a deal with your local Mc Dammits or Drunkin doughnuts for their used frier oil..

2) You carry the VO home in the best way you see fit.

3) Once you get it home you start straining it into another drum or barrel. (The better you strain it the less trouble you will have down the road).

4) Let it settle as long as you can and pump the most clear VO into your VO tank in your vehicle.


Using VO as a fuel:

1) Start your engine on diesel.

2) Drive as normal until your engine temp gets to about 150-160*. By this time you should be able to switch over to VO. This will take some getting used to. It could take a bit longer or shorter...

3) Before shutting down your engine, switch back to diesel to flush your system out.

There are many people doing this basically the same way. 2 people here in Florida, (that I know of), are not using any heat at all and never use any diesel fuel.. Of course the warmer weather here plays a big roll in that.. Where you live plays a big part in it respectfully..

So,,,,, who's got a diesel truck for sale cheap??

[Steve P.]

I forgot to mention. The cost of a tank and the heating lines, hoses and heat exchanger all very by where you buy it, how big you want it and if you have them install it....

I have seen many people doing their own. This is our plan...

For instance: the heat exchanger needs to be nothing more than a coil of tubing inside the VO tank.
For those of you in the North, a simple heat exchanger making up your fuel lines would be a big help.
A few companies are making the diverter valves. I don't remember the cost, but it wasn't bad..
Most of us can modify a fuel sending unit from an junk yard tank. Also low cost..

They say the average VO consumption is the same as diesel. Also that it is not harmful for Mother Earth..

It will take me some time to put it all together, but I'll let you know how it goes..

[bull]

But if you forget to switch back to the diesel tank before your start the engine or shut it off you're screwed.

[Steve P.]

Maybe... In the North during the winter, good chance.. The other method of mixing in race fuel is a better bet for the cold North...

[Duey]

Duey, for my own research, has anyone provided a cost analysis of what it actually takes (in time and fuel) to go pick up the used vegetable oil? Is this included or is it considered "free"? I suppose that I can't really try it until I buy a diesel vehicle.

Troy

Troy, to be honest, we really haven't looked at the additional fuel to go pick up the oilm but it's not much compared to the chemicals.  The most expensive ingredient is the methanol and then the potassium hydroxide.  I'll have to dig into the numbers from my buddy but in Canada, we're looking at about 25-30 ¢/Litre based on getting the used oil for free.

Guys in my local area (SE Ontario/N NY) usually run B50 in the winter, but there are some hardliners that fill their tank with about 5% PowerService and run straight BD, even down to -20c/0f...(brrr)

Cheers,
Duey

[The Mad Scientist]

What about blends like E85?

[Duey]

Mad, E85 can be run by gassers but I don't think they are any cheaper than straight gas (if not a bit more expensive...where I livem anyway).  The attraction to biodiesel if for folks who a) don't mind tinkering a bit, b) are a little bit "out there" (as evidenced by owning a diesel car in the first place), c) hate paying socialist governments huge amounts of taxes that aren't turned back into the roads  , etc.....  Still likely to remain a small niche of people helping the local restauranteurs reduce costs for used cooking oil... 

Cheers,
Duey

[SirNik73]

OK... so let me get this... if i just strain the Veggie Oil (VO) and then put it in a tank in the car with a heater (a coil in the tank that has engine coolent running through it) then have a tank changer that will switch from the VO tank to the current factory fule tank, so i can bring the eingie up to operating temp and then go to the VO and then when i get to where i'm parking switch the car back the the Diesel in the factory fule tank and let it purge the fule lines.

i don't have to distill the VO in a drum or anythign like that. just strain it?

also some one said that the knew someone who did this convercion to their Benz diesel? can you PM me that guys e-mail? if its that simple it sounds like its time to convert Sades over to a Oil Burner.

[Duey]

OK... so let me get this... if i just strain the Veggie Oil (VO) and then put it in a tank in the car with a heater (a coil in the tank that has engine coolent running through it) then have a tank changer that will switch from the VO tank to the current factory fule tank, so i can bring the eingie up to operating temp and then go to the VO and then when i get to where i'm parking switch the car back the the Diesel in the factory fule tank and let it purge the fule lines.

i don't have to distill the VO in a drum or anythign like that. just strain it?

also some one said that the knew someone who did this convercion to their Benz diesel? can you PM me that guys e-mail? if its that simple it sounds like its time to convert Sades over to a Oil Burner.

...or you as some chemicals to make the veggie oil almost like dino diesel and don't do anything to your car to use the stuff...BTW, a by-product of the transestherization is glycerine which lots of huggy, felly natural soap makers will gladly accept, if not actually pay you for...

Duey

[Charger_Fan]

This whole VO thing is very interesting...I'm half tempted to go find a beater diesel pickup! Hell, I could carry tanks large enough to fill most of the bed & drive all month long on that stuff!
I could easily see this whole VO thing getting out of hand soon if the fuel prices keep going up the way they are...there will be people assaulting others behind resturants for their fry oil.

TCP All I have to say...

This TCP thing is pretty friggin' interesting too. I wonder if they have stock available yet?

I like this quote from their FAQ page...

After a decade of intensive development, the first commercial-scale waste-to-oil plant based on the Thermal Conversion Process (TCP) of Changing World Technologies is successfully processing up to 270 tons of poultry offal into 300 barrels of oil daily in Carthage, Missouri. “Unfortunately, while the science works, political technicalities are preventing our company from meeting the demand to expand our U.S. operations,” says CWT Chairman & CEO Brian Appel.

Yeah, I bet there are some "political technicalities".

[MichaelRW]

There is an outfit called Eco-Tours in Hawaii that runs a fleet of boats that uses diesel or VO for fuel. While on one of the tours the Captain explained they choose to use the VO for ecological reasons and of course, it is also to live up to their name. He said the VO costs about twice that of diesel.

On another note, why not a car that runs on natural gas? You could fill up the tank right at your own home.

[Duey]

There is an outfit called Eco-Tours in Hawaii that runs a fleet of boats that uses diesel or VO for fuel. While on one of the tours the Captain explained they choose to use the VO for ecological reasons and of course, it is also to live up to their name. He said the VO costs about twice that of diesel.

On another note, why not a car that runs on natural gas? You could fill up the tank right at your own home.

Mike, there are a number of makers that provide LNG mods to vehicles right from the factory in Canada, DCX included.  As well, propane works up until -23c/-10f then it turns into a non-pressurized liquid...i.e. propane carb doesn't feed anything to the motor... 

Cheers,
Duey

[generalfan01]

MOONSHINE like the duke boys used its efficant and good for the enviornment

[Mopar440+6]

This TCP thing is pretty friggin' interesting too. I wonder if they have stock available yet?

No stock yet CF. Still a privately traded company as of right now.

Yeah, I bet there are some "political technicalities".

"Political technicalities" or Oil Companies whatever you want to call them...

[purple70rt]

From what I have read and seen on the news, the use of Veggie Oil goes something like this..

1) Diesel vehicle must be fitted with a second fuel tank. This tank can be as big or small as you can fit.   

Example:         The guy on the local news had a Benz with a small tank in his trunk, (mounted), and two 6 gallon plastic cans to pick up used oil. Another guy I saw on TV was part of a group that proved it's use by driving across the country on veggie oil.. He had a late model Dodge 4 door duelly with about 7 or 8 55 gallon plastic drums full of veggie oil.. He made it and had plenty to spare..

2) The tank must be fitted with a heat exchanger to heat the VO over 115*. The hot water to the heat exchanger is a byproduct of the running engine.. Simple!!

3) From the VO tank and the diesel tank must be diverter valves. The valves are used to switch from diesel to VO and back. + it is a good idea to set up your fuel gauge to switch at the same time for obvious reasons.

4) You will also need a place to set up a few barrels for straining and storage... Keep in mind, this is vegetable oil, not rocket fuel.. Most of us store much more potent stuff now!!


It works like this:   

1) You make a deal with your local Mc Dammits or Drunkin doughnuts for their used frier oil..

2) You carry the VO home in the best way you see fit.

3) Once you get it home you start straining it into another drum or barrel. (The better you strain it the less trouble you will have down the road).

4) Let it settle as long as you can and pump the most clear VO into your VO tank in your vehicle.


Using VO as a fuel:

1) Start your engine on diesel.

2) Drive as normal until your engine temp gets to about 150-160*. By this time you should be able to switch over to VO. This will take some getting used to. It could take a bit longer or shorter...

3) Before shutting down your engine, switch back to diesel to flush your system out.

There are many people doing this basically the same way. 2 people here in Florida, (that I know of), are not using any heat at all and never use any diesel fuel.. Of course the warmer weather here plays a big roll in that.. Where you live plays a big part in it respectfully..

So,,,,, who's got a diesel truck for sale cheap??

Sounds like a pain in the ass.

[Shakey]

I heard about this car this morning on the radio.  A car that runs on air.

http://www.theaircar.com/

[MichaelRW]

There is an outfit called Eco-Tours in Hawaii that runs a fleet of boats that uses diesel or VO for fuel. While on one of the tours the Captain explained they choose to use the VO for ecological reasons and of course, it is also to live up to their name. He said the VO costs about twice that of diesel.

On another note, why not a car that runs on natural gas? You could fill up the tank right at your own home.

Mike, there are a number of makers that provide LNG mods to vehicles right from the factory in Canada, DCX included.  As well, propane works up until -23c/-10f then it turns into a non-pressurized liquid...i.e. propane carb doesn't feed anything to the motor... 

Cheers,
Duey

Thanks, never heard of that before.

[Duey]

There is an outfit called Eco-Tours in Hawaii that runs a fleet of boats that uses diesel or VO for fuel. While on one of the tours the Captain explained they choose to use the VO for ecological reasons and of course, it is also to live up to their name. He said the VO costs about twice that of diesel.

On another note, why not a car that runs on natural gas? You could fill up the tank right at your own home.

Mike, there are a number of makers that provide LNG mods to vehicles right from the factory in Canada, DCX included.   As well, propane works up until -23c/-10f then it turns into a non-pressurized liquid...i.e. propane carb doesn't feed anything to the motor...  

Cheers,
Duey

Thanks, never heard of that before.

Mike, just did a bit of research and noted that Daimler Chrysler no longer produces CNG/dual-fuelled vehicles anymore...just E85-powered Minivans (with the 3.3L V6).  Up until the early 2000's, you used to be able to order dual fuel CNG/gasoline versions of utility vehicle (Ram p/u and vans) with the 5.2 and 5.9L engines.  Maybe with rising oil, they may come back.  There used to be a lot of fleet operators with the dual-fuel trucks.

Duey

[SirNik73]

that air car... what is it, a Huge impact gun? i don't unterstand how you could store ehough compressed air to run a car in the little toy looking vehicle.

[Steve P.]

From what I have read and seen on the news, the use of Veggie Oil goes something like this..

1) Diesel vehicle must be fitted with a second fuel tank. This tank can be as big or small as you can fit.   

Example:         The guy on the local news had a Benz with a small tank in his trunk, (mounted), and two 6 gallon plastic cans to pick up used oil. Another guy I saw on TV was part of a group that proved it's use by driving across the country on veggie oil.. He had a late model Dodge 4 door duelly with about 7 or 8 55 gallon plastic drums full of veggie oil.. He made it and had plenty to spare..

2) The tank must be fitted with a heat exchanger to heat the VO over 115*. The hot water to the heat exchanger is a byproduct of the running engine.. Simple!!

3) From the VO tank and the diesel tank must be diverter valves. The valves are used to switch from diesel to VO and back. + it is a good idea to set up your fuel gauge to switch at the same time for obvious reasons.

4) You will also need a place to set up a few barrels for straining and storage... Keep in mind, this is vegetable oil, not rocket fuel.. Most of us store much more potent stuff now!!


It works like this:   

1) You make a deal with your local Mc Dammits or Drunkin doughnuts for their used fryer oil..

2) You carry the VO home in the best way you see fit.

3) Once you get it home you start straining it into another drum or barrel. (The better you strain it the less trouble you will have down the road).

4) Let it settle as long as you can and pump the most clear VO into your VO tank in your vehicle.


Using VO as a fuel:

1) Start your engine on diesel.

2) Drive as normal until your engine temp gets to about 150-160*. By this time you should be able to switch over to VO. This will take some getting used to. It could take a bit longer or shorter...

3) Before shutting down your engine, switch back to diesel to flush your system out.

There are many people doing this basically the same way. 2 people here in Florida, (that I know of), are not using any heat at all and never use any diesel fuel.. Of course the warmer weather here plays a big roll in that.. Where you live plays a big part in it respectfully..

So,,,,, who's got a diesel truck for sale cheap??

Sounds like a pain in the ass.

I guess it does to some, but most of us do much more difficult work on a regular bassis.. Besides, if you take a look at what you COULD save in fuel costs I don't think it's such a pain in the ass.

Ex:   If you drive 15,000 miles per year and get 10 miles to the gallon, you will have used 1500 gallons of fuel.. At a cost of $2.50 per gallon you will have spent $3,750.oo on fuel.. If you where to do this and over 5 years you would have spent $18,750.oo... That's allllot of Charger money!!

So it takes some time and money to set it up. Big deal.. It would mean a weekend day away from this board to set it up. Also a little time each week to pick up and strain your next batch.. How long does it take you to make $3,750.oo?? On top of that, straight Veggie oil will not mess up the environment.. Only the political oil whores!!   (Place big smiley here).....

[The Mad Scientist]

"The engine has 4 two-stage pistons, i.e. 8 compression and/or expansion chambers. They have two functions: to compress ambient air and refill the storage tanks; and to make successive expansions (reheating air with ambient thermal energy) thereby approaching isothermic expansion."

That was from theaircar.com

So...   It sounds like what they're trying to do is use compressed air to help with fuel atomization/and combustion/fuel pre-heating???

Those articulated connecting rods really blew me away.   They can keep the pistons at TDC for 70% of the combustion cycle.   And did I read that right?  electromagnetic valvetrain???

Dang!!!

[Steve P.]

I guess it does to some, but most of us do much more difficult work on a regular bassis.. Besides, if you take a look at what you COULD save in fuel costs I don't think it's such a pain in the ass.

Ex:   If you drive 15,000 miles per year and get 10 miles to the gallon, you will have used 1500 gallons of fuel.. At a cost of $2.50 per gallon you will have spent $3,750.oo on fuel.. If you where to do this and over 5 years you would have spent $18,750.oo... That's allllot of Charger money!!

So it takes some time and money to set it up. Big deal.. It would mean a weekend day away from this board to set it up. Also a little time each week to pick up and strain your next batch.. How long does it take you to make $3,750.oo?? On top of that, straight Veggie oil will not mess up the environment.. Only the political oil whores!!   (Place big smiley here).....

First of all I was not attacking you, I simply stated it sounded like a pain in the ass.   I used your quote because it showed everything you had to do.

Furthemore not that it's any of your bussiness it takes me 2 weeks to make the $3,750.00 amount, by the way I don't have weekends off, I take a train to kansas city one day and come home the next, the next day I do it all over again.   I don't have assigned days off, sorry.

I guess it does to some, but most of us do much more difficult work on a regular bassis..

  Not even gonna comment on that.   Also, check my post count, I do not spend nearly as much time on here as you seem to think with the

It would mean a weekend day away from this board to set it up

.

Purple,,,, Take a pill... I was not and did not take aim at you.....  What I said was in general.. I'm happy that you make allot of money.. Many of us DO NOT!! I didn't post this JUST FOR YOU!!! This is a board that reaches out to the world..

If I sounded like I was attacking you, I am sorry.. I surely did NOT mean to..

You stated that it sounded like a pain in the ass.. I made the simple point that most of us do much more difficult stuff to our cars regularly!!

When I said, how long does it take you to make $$$$$.... This was not directed at you personally. It was meant to make people think.. For me, (personally), I cannot work overtime. Nor do I get a bonus.. I get chump change from workmens comp.. Others of us have yet a smaller income.. So if I see something that I think may help people out I write about it.. If you want to try it out or have something to add, Fine.. I certinly wasn't taking aim at you or anyone else...

[Steve P.]

Follow the link to 2 TV news interviews.


http://www.veggiepower.org/news.html

[purple70rt]

Hey steve, check your pm.  All's cool and I apologise!!!!!!!!!

[Andrew]

or, even easier than modifying your car, find yourself a vintage landini tractor
provided you heated the bulb thingy on the front, these would run on anything combustable, it even says that on the gas cap
because once its vaporised, all feul is pretty much the same, these will run on used engine oil, vege oil, possibly even beer.
Plus you get the added bonus of driving a tractor to work.



didnt the '99 charger concept run on natural gas??

[Steve P.]

Well that would certainly be strong enough to tow with but, I'm afraid it would be a very L00000ooooooooooooooooooong trip across the country!!   

[Charger_Fan]

Steering on wet & snowy roads could pose a problem too.

[Steve P.]

Here's a good read on our alternatives.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ethanol15jun15,0,3313642.story?track=tothtml


Toward the bottom they show what we produce already.. So WHY aren't we doing the same..  Oil products will allways be in our forseeable future, BUT WHY send all this money to other countries??

[Troy]

Ok, had to bring this back to the top. If any of you watch The Discovery Channel there is a show called "Dirty Jobs" and they had a segment on biodiesel today. Judging by the name of the show you know it's gotta be some fun stuff to produce. The figures they quoted were ~$0.50 per gallon to produce but the guy didn't state whether that included all the gas driving around to collect the used veggie oil, his time to pick all the oil up and to do all the mixing/transferring/testing, or the cost of all the equipment he had in his garage. It also showed that there's 20% waste (I guess) as glycerine but he never said what to do with it. Again, I have to ask what happens when places stop giving away the used fryer oil? I think I like the idea of growing alternative fuel (corn?) a bit better since it can be mass produced and distributed which should help control costs. Would environmentalists fight a corn refinery as much as they do an oil refinery? That would be interesting to see.

Edit: I found the answer to my glycerine question. Thanks Duey!

BTW, a by-product of the transestherization is glycerine which lots of huggy, felly natural soap makers will gladly accept, if not actually pay you for...

Duey

Troy

[Steve P.]

Troy, I can only tell you from my little experience with this so far that I like what I see.. I live in Florida. The weather here is normally warm enough to run PURE veggie oil without ANY additives.. I spoke with a guy here that IS driving a VW Jetta on Mc Donalds French Fry Grease... He has the original fuel tank and an additional tank in the trunk. That tank has a copper coil in it that he puts engine coolant through to keep the "VO" above 70*.. He tells me it isn't needed most of the time here as we are usually above that temp here anyway... Other areas get colder and he does head North now and then..

He told me that he has a 14 gallon tank in the trunk with an electric pump and filter. He also pumps out of it to tanks at home to stock up.. He uses no additives and does nothing but filter the oil.. He also added that the best oil he gets is from a resteraunt but he wouldn't say where..



The guys on Dirty Jobs and Trucks and also Willy Nelson are all Bio-Diesel guys.. They are chemists.

Willy adds veggie oil to DIESEL. He says it cuts pollution by 20%. I say, why not 100% ?

Trucks took "VO" and added Racing Fuel..    Come on!!!   Lot's of spinning and separating and then added racing fuel...

Dirty Jobs used "VO" strained it and separated it, (nice job), then they treated it for acid with lye.  I need to look into that myself.. The truck they showed had a gazillion miles on it but so do most diesels.. The guy I talked to with the Jetta is over 200K also.. He bought it with over 100 k on it..


For me, the whole nut is this. We are pollllllllllluttttttting like there is no tomorrow.. We don't have to!!!!

We are buying oil from all over the world. We don't have to!!!!!

We are using carbon base fuels and oils that we have allready proven suck and yet we continue. WE DON'T HAVE TO!!!!!!!

We have come up with just about every kind of chemical compound you can think of.. We now need one to stop "VO" from gelling in cold weather.. Who's going to be our next gazillionaire?

What the hell happened to us THINKING???

All you guys that live around Long Beach and have to drive through there, Take a pic. and post it here for all to see.. Next time you see an old Mack Dump truck tacking off from a red light with a full load.. Well, I don't need to say!! "VO" burns clean and will not kill you.. The most it will do is make you hungry or just the opposite. You may hate fries.. That could be a good thing...  Hahaha......

[Mopar440+6]

I think I like the idea of growing alternative fuel (corn?) a bit better since it can be mass produced and distributed which should help control costs.

Troy

Troy, I can't remember where I saw it but IF all the soybeans produced in the US in one year were turned into biodiesel it would only make up for 10% of the diesel used. And considering that small farms and decent farmland are dissappearing at an alarming rate I really don't see much of a solution in biodiesel or ethanol. BTW- "Veggie" oil is usually produced from soybeans, canola, peanut or sunflower seeds. Corn is usually used to produce ethanol. 

Would environmentalists fight a corn refinery as much as they do an oil refinery? That would be interesting to see.

Troy

The only answer to that one is yes. Ive been watching them do it in my hometown for the past year. A year ago a proposal was made to build an ethanol plant in an already established industrial zone. There has been so much resistance from the friggin tree hugger yuppie pricks that the company never even got off the ground. I can't even drive through town without seeing at least 3 or 4 of the "No Ethanol Plant in Franklin County" signs. And what really makes me mad is that for every 20 or 30 of those signs I see I can only ever find one of the "Support Alternative Fuel" signs. Yet those friggin people with the "No Ethanol Plant" signs still have the cajones to pull up next to me at the gas station and b*%&^ about the gas prices!!!  Wheres my mean guy smiley when I need him. PEOPLE SUCK!

[The Mad Scientist]

Here's another fun factor to add in.   A lot of fast food resturaunts have recylcer outfits that puchcase their used frier grease and recycle it.   Yes they recycle it.     Now of course if the Mc Manager or whoever got more profit selling the stuff as fuel then they might do that, that wasn't my point.   Point is.   If people start buying up VO on a bigger scale.   Then recycled VO isin't gonna be available on the market as a recycled good, which should raise the demand for VO and raise the price significantly.   Before you know it the'll be VO shortages and you'll need to get your used VO on odd or even days, blah blah blah.  

Whatever happens with alternate fuel in the future may have to be a self adaptive system.   Pulling a bran new infrastructure out of thin air just doesn't seem feasable to me.  

Hydrogen seems the most feasable alternate fuel to me, and something tells me that automakers would agree.  

links

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030521092358.htm

http://www.energycooperation.org/bioproductionH2.htm

http://www.livescience.com/technology/050426_hydrogen_waste.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/17/hydrogen_cars/


Imagine a nation wide compost pick up program.  The city could pick up the organic matter; bananna peels, apple cores, rotten eggs, last weeks leftovers, etc.  Take them to the retrofitted wastewater treatment plant dump them in the bacteria producing chamber.  Then the city owned wastewater treatment plant could sell the hydrogen to refueling stations.  That would generate income for the city that isin't in the form of a tax you have to pay.  It might not produce enough hydrogen to run a hydrogen car on.  I dunno.  Fuel mileage for automotive hydrogen fuel cells seems to still be under wraps.  Still...  Seems like an awful lot of hydrogen is being thrown away every day.   

[Steve P.]

From what I have been told by ass. managers of Mc D's and such, they have to PAY to have the veggie oil hauled away.. Drunken Doughnuts says they go through more than 60 gallons per week..

Of course if many of us are getting our VO from these sources there will not be enough to go around. This was not my point entirely. I brought up French fry grease as a replacement for diesel to paint a picture in peoples minds that we don't have to live under the rule of BIG OIL COMPANIES. Of course we will have to figure things out and nail things down, but that's what it's all about, isn't it??

It seams like we stopped thinking for ourselves when TV commercials started getting sexy and funny. The more they shovel shit down our throats the more we eat it.. My neighbor down the street doesn't need his Hummer to pull his 12 foot row boat. Matter of fact, he used to put it in the back of his F-150 6-cyl, stick pick up. Now he has to have a little trailer to put the tinny boat on to go out on the river with a few times per year.. He drives the Hummer to Tampa 5-6 days per week for work. That's about 70 miles round trip per day..

OK, Sorry....  white spots on the brain taking over again!!

Point is that we HAVE TO find something new and much better all the way around. If this isn't it, good. At least we looked at it..