Alt. Fuel

[Steve P.]

Today on TRUCKS, they are showing the use of french fry greese to replace diesel fuel..

1:30 PM. Eastern time...   Spike TV....

[Troy]

What will people do when everyone wants used french fry grease and the places that are giving it away free right now can charge whatever they want for it? It is a limited commodity and when demand gets high enough the price will follow. Just something to think about...

Troy

[Steve P.]

Put our FARMERS back in business........


I don't know that this is the answer, but I know it can be done..

This is how GAS got it's start...   

I just think we need better solutions..

[MoparYoungGun]

I've seen that episode. Very interesting. The bio diesel is also suppose to give you added performance as well.

[Mopar440+6]

TCP All I have to say...

[Steve P.]

TCP All I have to say...

HUH??

[Mopar440+6]

Click the link

[RD]

that TCP looks phenomenal, I think I will research more about it.  Thanks for the heads up, I love new technological developments.

[Steve P.]

This show was using a different aproach that I have heard of but not what I have been reading about..  This may be due to ,  1) use in many climats.  2) not needing to alter your vehicle.


My buddy is a used car dealer here in Florida. He is going to look for a ratty old diesel for us to tinker with..

What we are planning is just to skim and strain used veggie oil. Heat it and send it to the engine.. Many sites are doing this. The news here has shown a club in St. Pete doing this. They say they don't even heat the veggie oil due to our warm temps here.. The  (TROY) of their club says he has not used nor paid for diesel since 1998..

7 years of fuel costs?!?!?!?!  Makes you think.....

As far as everyone doing it.....  I don't see it happening.. Most will pay and pay rather than make a change..

[bull]

What will people do when everyone wants used french fry grease and the places that are giving it away free right now can charge whatever they want for it? It is a limited commodity and when demand gets high enough the price will follow. Just something to think about...

Troy

The govt. will start requiring that each American eat 3 lbs. of fries a day to keep up with demand and health care costs will skyrocket even more because everyone is so grossly obese. We'll be spending $.50/gal. on french fry grease and $2,200/mo. on health care premiums.

[Steve P.]

Don't forget about the doughnuts!!!

[bull]

Don't forget about the doughnuts!!!

Who could forget those?

[Drop Top]

I wonder if the guy behind, smelling the exhaust, will get hungry. 

[Troy]

What will people do when everyone wants used french fry grease and the places that are giving it away free right now can charge whatever they want for it? It is a limited commodity and when demand gets high enough the price will follow. Just something to think about...

Troy

The govt. will start requiring that each American eat 3 lbs. of fries a day to keep up with demand and health care costs will skyrocket even more because everyone is so grossly obese. We'll be spending $.50/gal. on french fry grease and $2,200/mo. on health care premiums.

Troy

[Troy]

7 years of fuel costs?!?!?!?!  Makes you think.....

As far as everyone doing it.....  I don't see it happening.. Most will pay and pay rather than make a change..

Until it gets to be unbearable for most people (which is a much higher price point than it's at currently).

Troy

[Duey]

This show was using a different aproach that I have heard of but not what I have been reading about..   This may be due to ,   1) use in many climats.   2) not needing to alter your vehicle.


My buddy is a used car dealer here in Florida. He is going to look for a ratty old diesel for us to tinker with..

What we are planning is just to skim and strain used veggie oil. Heat it and send it to the engine.. Many sites are doing this. The news here has shown a club in St. Pete doing this. They say they don't even heat the veggie oil due to our warm temps here.. The   (TROY) of their club says he has not used nor paid for diesel since 1998..

7 years of fuel costs?!?!?!?!   Makes you think.....

As far as everyone doing it.....   I don't see it happening.. Most will pay and pay rather than make a change..

Steve, a friend of mine makes biodiesel and I've run it in my Jetta TDI for a couple of tanks...the engine runs quite smoothly and I don't smell any "french fry" smell from the exhaust...   This is Biodiesel made from "transesterization"...basically using some chemicals (acids and bases) to break the longer chain vegetable oils into shorter chain molecules that more closely resemble fossil diesel.   You can also run straight veggie oil (called SVO by the biodiesel crowd) without esterizing the oil, but you will have to compensate for the veggie oil's longer molecular chain by heating the fuel before the injection pump.   The downside to all the heating rig for the SVO is that you avoid the chemical stuff and manual labour of treating, mixing and cleaning the fuel to get the final product.

Fair bit of info here: http://www.veggiepower.org.uk/ and http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html


...and you can get a highly recommended book about biodiesel here: From the fryer to the fuel tank.

I think with chemical cost and free used oil from local restaurants, you'd be looking at about 60-75 ¢/gal.   

Cheers,
Duey

[Crazy440]

I'll put my foot in it, by saying,"Americans are too complacent and stupid to recognize the benefits of Bio-Desel and E85".  Much less, demand the use of it. Let the other guy do it.  Why on Earth would we want to use soy beans and corn, when we still have oil to buy from Opec?  Makes sense to me...

[bull]

I'll put my foot in it, by saying,"Americans are too complacent and stupid to recognize the benefits of Bio-Desel and E85".   Much less, demand the use of it. Let the other guy do it.   Why on Earth would we want to use soy beans and corn, when we still have oil to buy from Opec?   Makes sense to me...

These kind of things only work on a wide scale when it becomes convenient on a wide scale. When it becomes easier and cheaper to use alternative fuels then it will become the norm. However, as usual, there will have to be a catesrophic shortage of the common fuels before it will ever become mainstream, mainly because it is not a convenient outlet at this point. Everything is fine if there is a place to buy biodiesel on your way home from work but what about long trips? Are you going to plan your vacations around biodiesel stations? Outcry won't mean jack squat as long as the oil companies feel they can make more money on the common fuels, no matter what they say in their commercials. I personally won't participate in these so-called earth-saving measures until someone is smart enough and powerful enough to make it convenient and price effective for me to switch. But you also have to figure out if these measures are just feel-good measures or if they actually have any practical value to them. Take recycling for instance. Recycling has become widespread in my area but think about how much more diesel fuel is burned so that all those trucks can visit every little community to pick up recycling. Have we really gotten anywhere? We're supposedly saving trees, glass, iron ore and petroleum for plastics and yet we're probably burning 7 times the diesel to collect it all. Kinda goofy if you ask me.

[Duey]

To be honest, the small crowd making and using biodiesel are most definitely not the norm.  Heck, in North America, automotive diesels aren't the norm.  Folks still have bad memories of GM's botched 5.7 Olds diesel, which to be honest wasn't really that bad if GM had properly programmed the TH350 tranny to use the engine's greater torque at lower RPM, not making it rev like a gasser and wonder why no forward acceleration but lots of smoke...  Anyway, I figure it will remain a small bunch of folks who like to tinker with stuff and get more out of making their own fuel than they really do for the business case.  In fact, I think if you look at the total energy cycle costs, growing crop to turn into Canola oil to process into biodiesel may actually be several time more polluting than burning original dino diesel in the first place....but, remember only a small, quirky bunch are going to make and use this stuff anyway.  Personally, I like the fact that I'm not being taxed on it (....yet  )

Cheers,
Duey

[hemihead]

If any new , cheap fuel or engineering technology is discoveed it will be taxed,the cost will be elevated for the purpose of greed or some whimey yuppie group will cry about the enviroment.And you can bet the big oil men don't want it.

[Troy]

Duey, for my own research, has anyone provided a cost analysis of what it actually takes (in time and fuel) to go pick up the used vegetable oil? Is this included or is it considered "free"? I suppose that I can't really try it until I buy a diesel vehicle.

Troy

[Steve P.]

From what I have read and seen on the news, the use of Veggie Oil goes something like this..

1) Diesel vehicle must be fitted with a second fuel tank. This tank can be as big or small as you can fit.     

Example:         The guy on the local news had a Benz with a small tank in his trunk, (mounted), and two 6 gallon plastic cans to pick up used oil. Another guy I saw on TV was part of a group that proved it's use by driving across the country on veggie oil.. He had a late model Dodge 4 door duelly with about 7 or 8 55 gallon plastic drums full of veggie oil.. He made it and had plenty to spare..

2) The tank must be fitted with a heat exchanger to heat the VO over 115*. The hot water to the heat exchanger is a byproduct of the running engine.. Simple!!

3) From the VO tank and the diesel tank must be diverter valves. The valves are used to switch from diesel to VO and back. + it is a good idea to set up your fuel gauge to switch at the same time for obvious reasons.

4) You will also need a place to set up a few barrels for straining and storage... Keep in mind, this is vegetable oil, not rocket fuel.. Most of us store much more potent stuff now!!


It works like this:  

1) You make a deal with your local Mc Dammits or Drunkin doughnuts for their used frier oil..

2) You carry the VO home in the best way you see fit.

3) Once you get it home you start straining it into another drum or barrel. (The better you strain it the less trouble you will have down the road).

4) Let it settle as long as you can and pump the most clear VO into your VO tank in your vehicle.


Using VO as a fuel:

1) Start your engine on diesel.

2) Drive as normal until your engine temp gets to about 150-160*. By this time you should be able to switch over to VO. This will take some getting used to. It could take a bit longer or shorter...

3) Before shutting down your engine, switch back to diesel to flush your system out.

There are many people doing this basically the same way. 2 people here in Florida, (that I know of), are not using any heat at all and never use any diesel fuel.. Of course the warmer weather here plays a big roll in that.. Where you live plays a big part in it respectfully..

So,,,,, who's got a diesel truck for sale cheap??

[Steve P.]

I forgot to mention. The cost of a tank and the heating lines, hoses and heat exchanger all very by where you buy it, how big you want it and if you have them install it....

I have seen many people doing their own. This is our plan...

For instance: the heat exchanger needs to be nothing more than a coil of tubing inside the VO tank.
For those of you in the North, a simple heat exchanger making up your fuel lines would be a big help.
A few companies are making the diverter valves. I don't remember the cost, but it wasn't bad..
Most of us can modify a fuel sending unit from an junk yard tank. Also low cost..

They say the average VO consumption is the same as diesel. Also that it is not harmful for Mother Earth..

It will take me some time to put it all together, but I'll let you know how it goes..

[bull]

But if you forget to switch back to the diesel tank before your start the engine or shut it off you're screwed.

[Steve P.]

Maybe... In the North during the winter, good chance.. The other method of mixing in race fuel is a better bet for the cold North...