WARNING! DANGER! If you are or will run a flat tappet cam read this!!!

[BrianShaughnessy]

I can't believe this isn't getting press...or if it has I sure missed it.

Old news for some of us.       But it helps to keep it up top... cause there's newbies all the time.

Frankly,  flat hydraulic cams are obsolete.   Hydraulic roller cam V6 / V8s have pretty much been standard since the mid 80's.    20 years is a long time to worry about zinc levels when they're not necessary for modern engines to survive and harmful to other components or emissions.       

Solid cams haven't been in a production car probably since '70 or '71 which pretty much makes them archaic... but they're still fun! 

I'm pretty sure the near future will see the camshaft itself is archaic and replaced by computer driven solenoids as standard.   

[FLG]

Ron just bought a quart, they have both ratings on the bottle 

[bordin34]

Does Ci-4 still have enough ZDDP in it. I bought 5 quarts of Ci-4 plus Mobil Delvac because they are now becoming CJ-4. Also, I just bought 2 quarts of Ci-4 Ford oil at walmart.

[RallyeMike]

Well, I'll add my story: Two flat cam lobes and crap that fouled up a piston skirt likely as a result. Complete tear down, hone, and rebuild with new pistons, cam and bearings. Just got the engine back in the car today. It had about 600-700 (hard) miles on it. I was using Mobil 1 20-50W, which a couple years ago was fine. Did not realize the formula had changed once again since I last checked it out.  I need to pay more attention to this crap !

[firefighter3931]

Well, I'll add my story: Two flat cam lobes and crap that fouled up a piston skirt likely as a result. Complete tear down, hone, and rebuild with new pistons, cam and bearings. Just got the engine back in the car today. It had about 600-700 (hard) miles on it. I was using Mobil 1 20-50W, which a couple years ago was fine. Did not realize the formula had changed once again since I last checked it out.  I need to pay more attention to this crap !

Mike, why not run a solid cam and use the EDM lifters with priority lobe oiling. In an application like yours that would be my preferance. 



Ron

[RallyeMike]

I almost went roller but ...... the motor is back in the car now with another flat-tap. There's no reason it should fail with the correct oil additives. People have been running more aggressive flat tappet cams than mine for years before this oil formulation mess. 

I had a guy ask me in the auto parts store the other day what the bottle of "lead substitute" was for. He was just some guy who had the hand-me-down family classic and has managed to keep it going. I'm sure his exhaust valve seats are toast, and like many other similar plain folks out there, these oil changes are going to costs a lot of unsuspecting people a lot of money and grief. I think someone in this thread said basically "we should all know better", but there are a lot of non-gear head people like this guy I met that are going to get screwed, and it just plain sucks. 

[Chryco Psycho]

Mopar also sells the correct additive under VU 1157 part #

[Ghoste]

As far as suing anybody, it'd be like trying to sue over the switch to low octane no lead oxygenated gasoline. 

[my73charger]

Just a thought, I think we should have this pinned at the top for a while.  I was a victiim of bad oil in the past year and was fortunate enough to only have to replace the cam and lifters.  We need to get the word out at least here.

[Mick70RR]

This guy has made it his mission in life to get to the bottom of this, sending oil samples for independent testing. It's a long thread so here's some of the results so far.

(1200ppm-1400ppm) Zn & P is where we need to be for good protection when running an aftermarket flat tappet hyd or solid perf cam with elevated spring rates which is what many of us are running in oru SBC/BBC)

(KEY=Zn-ppm/P-ppm/Ca-ppm)


VALVOLINE  NSL RACE(not VR1) -20W-50 - 1250/1000/890 (ALL 4 VALVOLINE OILS LISTED HERE ARE CONVENTIONAL)

VALVOLINE  NSL RACE -10W-30 - 1000/750

VALVOLINE  VR1 RACE -20W-50 - 1040/840

VALVOLINE  VR1 RACE -10W-40 - 1160/912

BRAD PENN RACE - 20W-50 - 770/600(SYN BLEND)

PENNZOIL GT 25W-50 RACING OIL - 1676/1483(CONVEN OIL)

CASTROL SYNTEC TRUCK & 4X4 15W-40 - 1240/990(SYN BELND)

CHEVRON DELO LE CJ 15W-40 - 1360/1115(CONVEN OIL)

SHELL ROTEALLA 30WT SINGLE GRADE -1215/1050(CONVEN OIL)

LUBRIPLATE GPO H/D 15W-40 - 1165/920(CONVEN OIL)

ROYAL PURPLE 5W30 XPR Racing Oil - 1421/1339(FULL SYN/TESTED BY FELLOW T/C'R)


If you want to read it here's the link.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195620&page=15

[firefighter3931]

Good info Mic.....thanks for posting 

That Penzoil GT 20/50 looks impressive !


Ron

[Ghoste]

I'm wondering if the formulations are changing faster than that list though?

[mally69]

Wow, it shows BradPenn being the lowest. I thought theirs was supposed to be one of the top choices for flat tappet cams? 

[Plumcrazy]

I stumbled on this web site/product. A lot of interesting reading.

http://www.zddplus.com/index.htm

Anybody use it?  Thoughts, opinions.


Another possibility

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=7032644

[daves68]

Zinc additive was removed from motor oil last year because it was suspected of fouling catalytic converters and thereby allowing more pollutants to pass out of the engine. My question would be that we have been saddled with cats since 1975. Why did they just start failing because of oil/zinc last year? Smell a rat here. Thank the next tree huggin, tofu fartin, enviro twink  liberal that  you see.
Dave

[Chryco Psycho]

yup trying to get all the old cars off the road & force us to buy new with no $$ as the raises are nowhere close to keeping up with rising costs

[Wango Mango]

Check out www.bobistheoilguy.com   its quite a site dedicated to lubricants & there's a wealth of info on the passenger car rorum & racing forum.  I switched to Brad Penn 1 Racing Oil (the real 'green' oil that used to be Kendall GT1).  It has 1300 ppm of zinc & lots of phosphorus.  Valvonine VR1 is also high in zinc & highly rated.   Some tests they did that are on the site don't recommend additives since they compromise the formulas that the oils were designed with.  Check out the website.

[racecharger]

I have a .645 roller in in my stroked 496.
Do I need zinc in my oil?
I have run my engine for about one hour to brake it in.
And I will take it to the Dino soon. 

I have used a Mobil 1 15-40 diesel engine oil so far.
What do you think?

[daves68]

No, you don't. A roller cam set-up will not be affected by the zinc removal. The stresses on a roller are waaayyy less than those on a flat tappet.
It's only "flat" guys that have to be concerned.

[Ghoste]

Check out www.bobistheoilguy.com   its quite a site dedicated to lubricants...             ... Some tests they did that are on the site don't recommend additives since they compromise the formulas that the oils were designed with.  Check out the website.

The only additive test I could find on that site was adding Lucas gear oil additive to a gear oil and one motor oil.  That didn't seem too conclusive other than for Lucas.   Is there more?