XX engine on Craigslist

[mopar4ever]

Hey, I don't know the seller of the engine or the owner of the car.  I do have experience in reuniting engines and broadcast sheets with collector Mopar Muscle cars and I have been involved in many high end Mopar Muscle car sales and it does add significant value to those cars.  The actual value of the engine has nothing to do with anything and can not be compared to what other engines are selling for.  It's the stupid matching numbers that are stamped on it that has all the value.  If you ground the numbers off the engine you would then have a boat anchor.  It also doesn't matter if it's a $100K resto or not, matching numbers adds significant value.  And I would say on a Charger 500 it would be $10K or more.  I also agree if the car owner is never going to sell the car then there is no reason to pay up for the engine.  The guy who bought the engine to sell it and make a killing was taking a chance that it mattered or not to the car owner.  In this case I do see that a long term owner might not care and the engine seller will probably have to take a small profit selling it to him.  GOOD LUCK TO BOTH SIDES, as a Mopar enthusiast I would like to see the two reunited, it just seems right.  You guys are close, make it happen!

[hemigeno]

You guys are close, make it happen!

I think Rick's been the one who has made the concerted effort to make something happen here.  The eBay seller's "discount" from an astronomical price to a merely exhorbatant price doesn't count as "making something happen"   

It'd be one thing if Rick was asking the guy to take a loss on his "investment".  My guess is that the reluctance of the seller to do the right thing stems from a fear that Rick's C500 will end up on the selling block shortly thereafter with a higher price due to it's new-found status as (partially) numbers matching.

IMHO, there's no way that Rick's car becomes worth $70k vs. $60k simply because the original block is present with the car.  The seller's threat to scrap the block is absolutely nothing more than saber rattling.  If the guy makes his living buying/selling parts for purely profit motives while never letting personal feelings dictate his course, why on EARTH would he then threaten to scrapt the block for that very reason (letting his personal feelings dictate his course)?  There's not much profit in scrapping a block that cost $1,300+/- for scrap prices.  Counterintuitive, to say the least.

Rick's latest offer is more than fair to the seller since he gets to make a profit.  If the hold-up is his fear of Rick making too much profit now by selling the C500, perhaps they can agree that if the car is sold within a particular time frame that Rick would slide some additional/agreed amount the seller's way.  That should eliminate most any concern.

mopar4ever, you seem like you've got a decent perspective on the situation, and you'll have to forgive us skeptics for viewing any defense of the seller (especially from a board newcomer) in a jaded way.  Here's my favorite sentence from your last post:

I also agree if the car owner is never going to sell the car then there is no reason to pay up for the engine.

Rick's the epitome of a long-term owner, and he's got the worn sheet metal and road trip photo-albums to prove he's no profit-motivated collector.  'Round here, we're all rooting for Rick to get his block back - but on reasonable terms rather than     motor-napping

[Finn]

As a precaution Id call local scrap yards around his area. Tell them the story, fax them pics/info to post up and make it clear that if they get this engine and hold onto it it'll be worth their while. 

[69_500]

I highly doubt that Frank would even actually consider scrapping the block considering what he has invested in it. If he is truthful about being in this hobby purely for money, then there is no way in the world that he would take a 4 figure loss on something in a span of a month. That would definitely not be a good way to provide for ones family, nor is it smart business.

Rick is definitely a long term type of person when it comes to these aero cars. Considering he bought his Superbird brand new, had a Daytona for probabaly close to 30 years, and has had the pair of 500's since I was just a baby in diapers. And of all those cars, and all the parts he has picked up over the years, I haven't heard of too awful many items ever being sent off to someone else (IE SELLING anything).

[RAC95054]

I'm not even opposed to people making money on parts (that's how the free world works after all).  Personally, I find this whole thing offensive because this guy knew the owner of the matching car was looking at it so he slipped in and sniped him for it and then turned around with an obscene markup knowing it was only worth a lot to one person.  If he is into these parts as much as he says, then he already knows he overpaid for the engine in the first place from the point of view of someone who doesn't own the rest of the car.  Then he wants to play the "Christian" card and now he threatens to scrap it since no one else is interested in an overpriced 440 block.
I shouldn't care since none of this has anything to do with me and despite a lot of posts that would show otherwise, I am not really a purist guy.  This one just rankles me though because it's so blatant and opportunistic and wrong.  Certain cars in this HOBBY deserve a special status and homologation specials like the 69 C500 are near the top of that list.   

I think what has been lost in all this (sadly being more the typical situation than not anymore) is this is supposed to be a hobby, not a means to suppliment a retirement fund.  That's what stocks, CDs and real estate are for (well not so much the real estate at the moment).  When I go to shows now to try and find what few parts I may need, I see the rediculous prices guys are asking (and in many casees for total junk) anymore, but they figure they will eventually get it, because someone desperately needs it, or will buy it only to flip it to someone else for even more.  Pretty soon, people won't go to swap meets or shows, because they just won't be fun.  It will be too much like a business, and who the hell wants to work on the weekend, too!  Sure, for some guys, it is their livelihood, but I'm guessing they got into it originally for the love and fun of it, not because they anticipated the hobby would turn into big business and make them wealthy one day.  Now too many speculators have stepped in, drven up prices, and those of us who really do love these cars can't afford what we want/need in most cases.  I hope we are on the edge of a "collector car bubble," and that these big spenders are left with big losses when it pops, so it reminds them of what this is all about... that it's a hobby, not a way to get rich.  Unfortunately, that could hurt some of the smaller guys who do use it as a means to live, but if they haven't been gouging people, they will probably be fine in the end.  I guess that is my rant on the issue.  I really do hope the hobby survives, and we can all make it more fun again. 

-Russ

[Ghoste]

Yep, one of the things I hate at the bigger swap meets is watching the guys on the atv's racing from spot to spot and going back and forth with the main base on the two way radios.  They are generally dressed really clean and jump all over the guys wearing the greasy t's and ripped jeans buying the cheap parts from the hobbyist types to take directly over to their elaborate business type spots to resell at considerable markup from what it was just purchased for.   Yes, yes, yes, yes, I fully realize that this is the American way (and I in no way advocate or want any form of auto communism) but I still remember when pretty much everybody at the swap meets were the greasy t and jeans guys and the only ones who were taken advantage of were the Chevy guys who wanted to just give away the Mopar "junk".  It's as realistic as longing for cheap good gas and next years new musclecar and a dragstrip in every township but still...

[Drache]

Yep, one of the things I hate at the bigger swap meets is watching the guys on the atv's racing from spot to spot and going back and forth with the main base on the two way radios.  They are generally dressed really clean and jump all over the guys wearing the greasy t's and ripped jeans buying the cheap parts from the hobbyist types to take directly over to their elaborate business type spots to resell at considerable markup from what it was just purchased for.   Yes, yes, yes, yes, I fully realize that this is the American way (and I in no way advocate or want any form of auto communism) but I still remember when pretty much everybody at the swap meets were the greasy t and jeans guys and the only ones who were taken advantage of were the Chevy guys who wanted to just give away the Mopar "junk".  It's a realistic as longing for cheap good gas and next years new musclecar and a dragstrip in every township but still...

and thus the reason dodgecharger.com was born.... 

[Ghoste]

That's just a sped up version too really.  We had clubs before but you had to wait for your newsletter.

[moparmom]

  Rumor has it - by good athority - the seller wants 1500 for the block, then he can build another'motor with the left over parts' and sell it to some other 'joe' for a outlandish price.

Now, some of you know me and this could be the straw that broke the camels back. (pack the bags but not enough of them to load the junk in)  If it were ransom for a child, sure, but for a motor - volenteering in a hospice certainly puts things into prospective and a motor certainly isn't life or death.  Good thing this God fearing man didn't get me on the phone or he would know where the sun doesn't shine.  Often I've heard in my life ' don't cut off your nose to spite your face' - but I for one have a good sized 'nazzola', so does the Rick (as far as I know) Still room to trim it a little more.

I'd be telling the seller 'deliver it to my house and I'll be glad to give you what you paid for it, if it checks out'.   It's called 'principles' something people need more often.
Reminds me why I filed a case for the average homebuying joe, fought it all the way to the Supreme Court, didn't get the hearing but I see a lot of happy smiles when I look in the mirror!  I'll keep an eye on the owner of the 500 if you like and if anything should ever happen to him I'll get his wife to let me give you all first shot at everything.                      :Twocents:If you don't stop paying ransom at some time you'll just keep getting  !!!
                                                                lmao

[69_500]

So fill us in here on the story then, what all happened last night? Enquiring minds want to know.

Oh and speaking of a shot, I take it that means my offer was rejected then huh? 

[talkiemopar]

at this time - rejected yes   on his way to the meet in June   hope the birdie makes it   

[moparstuart]

all you need is the numbers matching block anyway @ 1500.00 I think that is reasonable , rick I think you should make the deal
  I know in my shoes thats easy to say , but the car should get it's motor back and I think thats the best this guy is going to come down too.   

[Charger_Fan]

Before I forked over $1500 for that though, I'd yank the heads & oil pan, so I could inspect the bores & main journals. There's still a chance that this block is wasted inside & even though it's numbers match the car, it could end up an expensive yard ornament/conversation piece.

[BROCK]

"Rick is a longterm owner with no interest in investment potential"  Paraphrased i know....
My point:  Rick ROCKS

[charger_fan_4ever]

Saw this engine on CL

wish my 440 would pop up

Maybe a members car?

curious as to how he would know the whole vin

did the 500's have a special sequence # range?


http://atlanta.craigslist.org/pts/821625657.html

Reply to: sale-821625657@craigslist.org [?]
Date: 2008-08-31, 10:47PM EDT


Needs rebuilt,
Came from a charger 500.
Hp2 engine,
Vin # XX29L9B238099
Call for info.
Frank 706 273 4283
   
   


    * Location: Ellijay Georgia
    * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

PostingID: 821625657

[SnoPro440]

Pretty sure that was this one from earlier in the year.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43228.0.html

[Aero426]

The one for Rick's car.

[hemigeno]

curious as to how he would know the whole vin

Up through somewhere in January of 1969, the entire VIN number was stamped on the engines and transmissions.

[charger_fan_4ever]

curious as to how he would know the whole vin

Up through somewhere in January of 1969, the entire VIN number was stamped on the engines and transmissions.

Ahhh Thanks

I thought it was just the sequence #.

[tan top]

curious as to how he would know the whole vin

Up through somewhere in January of 1969, the entire VIN number was stamped on the engines and transmissions.

true       but  early 69 cars such as a C500 would have been built late 68 ... & they recived the whole vin #

[moparstuart]

yes that would be ricks engine

[nascarxx29]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43228.0.html

[pettybird]

principle or not rick needs to buy the damn thing for $1500.

[hemigeno]

curious as to how he would know the whole vin

Up through somewhere in January of 1969, the entire VIN number was stamped on the engines and transmissions.

   

true       but  early 69 cars such as a C500 would have been built late 68 ... & they recived the whole vin #

Yep, you're correct tantop.  I neglected to spell out that the full VIN stampings started with the beginning of the '69 model year - which began in August of 1968.  It ended sometime in January '69, depending on which Assembly Plant you're talking about.

principle or not rick needs to buy the damn thing for $1500.

I hope he can pick it up - maybe the seller will be a little more reasonable this time around.   

[Ghoste]

I'm glad to see he still hasn't sold it.  Did anyone else notice the ad in MCG where he makes it sound like he wants Rick to have it but Rick has turned him down?  Technically true but without a few other details it gives the tale a whole new spin.