hemigeno's Daytona restoration - a few more tweaks... again!

[hemigeno]

One detail I don't know if I recorded before is the engine's firewall ground cable.  This is a good used/original part, and I was trying to document the terminal end and its unique clamp configuration.  

The last picture shows another failed attempt to find an original radiator overflow hose.  This time, I discovered that 22" radiator overflow hoses are cut shorter than 26" versions...  only I didn't realize the hose was from a 22" car until we tried to install it and discovered the shortage.  This one was only on loan, so at least it didn't prove to be a costly mistake.

[hemigeno]

A few more parts that have been added to the pile recently

[hemigeno]

I think I may have a shot of the shifter mechanism somewhere back in the thread, but since the trans linkage was laid out so neatly I took another picture.  This first pic is of an assembly-line Hurst mechanism, and there was apparently some red sticker or decal across the mounting bolt hole that remains visible around the washer.  The second picture is of the tooling marks still visible on the shift linkage.  '69 apparently used black phosphate on shift rods, which makes them especially susceptible to pitting.  Finding an unpitted set of rods that still show details like these tooling marks is fairly rare but not unheard-of.

In the last shot, I snapped a picture of some NOS shackles.  These look correct, but one thing seen so far on all the parts-shelf shackles I've found is that the bushings have a smaller diameter shoulder than the assembly-line versions.  By shoulder, I am referring to the largest diameter of the bushing right near the metal plates which sandwich the bushing when installed.  Why is that important?  The biggest reason is that with this smaller shoulder, the springs have juuuuust enough room to wiggle around inside the shackle even after everything is torqued down.  Vance showed me a couple of examples of cars where the spring is actually shifted over to one side or the other due to this smaller shoulder size.  He measured a loose original bushing floating around in one of his parts boxes, compared it to one of these "NOS" parts, and found that the originals were 0.100" larger at that shoulder.  This is the same problem that everyone deals with unless the original bushings are re-used.

[tan top]

great stuff going on Geno   keep the pictures & info coming 

[hemigeno]

I was finally able to pick up the moulded carpet set from ECS Automotive and take it up to Vance's.  Dave W. hasn't been able to order carpet sets for a long time, and the couple of leads I had on factory stuff did not pan out.  I've been on the wait list for a set of carpet since December or January, but no more waiting on that topic anyway.  We didn't have time to crack open the box and see what was in there, but so far all the reviews of Dave's carpet sets have been extremely positive.  

Dave also cranked out a tinted windshield for me.  The original glass was ruined in the engine fire, and I did not want to try and find or install a used windshield in the car, so a repro unit - with a reproduction date-coded etching - is the next best thing.  All the rest of the glass should be refurbished original pieces, thanks in part to MoparJohn's assistance with glass polishing.

I snapped a pic or two of my travel companion for this trip, Jonathan, who will be 12 in about 2 weeks.  He's really looking forward to us being able to get the Daytona out and about someday, although I did get a shock yesterday when he told me he didn't want to learn to drive a manual transmission car... heresy, I tell ya!  

[moparstuart]

  you have some time to work on him      great pictures , great shot of your son

[maxwellwedge]

Looking good Geno.

I too have that sticker on my 69-X's shifter.....gotta dig up a pic.

I have found quite a few 69 assembly line shifter rods are silver cad. Here is a pic of my X and I have the same ones on my survivor Runner and on Boat-Tona. Not saying Zinc Phos wasn't ever used, just that all I have seen are silver cad. Old Cad will wear and rust and look dark after many years. All the NOS ones I have ever bought were Zinc Phos.

Here is a pic of my ground strap. You can still see remnants of masking tape on the terminal and see how far down they masked this one.

That slot head screw on your voltage regulator need to be a hex head. That fastener and the little clamp it holds down is getting harder to find.

I am digging the NOS in your pics!

I think I may have a shot of the shifter mechanism somewhere back in the thread, but since the trans linkage was laid out so neatly I took another picture.  This first pic is of an assembly-line Hurst mechanism, and there was apparently some red sticker or decal across the mounting bolt hole that remains visible around the washer.  The second picture is of the tooling marks still visible on the shift linkage.  '69 apparently used black phosphate on shift rods, which makes them especially susceptible to pitting.  Finding an unpitted set of rods that still show details like these tooling marks is fairly rare but not unheard-of.

In the last shot, I snapped a picture of some NOS shackles.  These look correct, but one thing seen so far on all the parts-shelf shackles I've found is that the bushings have a smaller diameter shoulder than the assembly-line versions.  By shoulder, I am referring to the largest diameter of the bushing right near the metal plates which sandwich the bushing when installed.  Why is that important?  The biggest reason is that with this smaller shoulder, the springs have juuuuust enough room to wiggle around inside the shackle even after everything is torqued down.  Vance showed me a couple of examples of cars where the spring is actually shifted over to one side or the other due to this smaller shoulder size.  He measured a loose original bushing floating around in one of his parts boxes, compared it to one of these "NOS" parts, and found that the originals were 0.100" larger at that shoulder.  This is the same problem that everyone deals with unless the original bushings are re-used.

[learical1]

although I did get a shock yesterday when he told me he didn't want to learn to drive a manual transmission car... heresy, I tell ya!  

If any of my sons told me this, I'd be slapping their mother to find out who REALLY fathered that child!

[Mopar John]

Geno,
Congrats on all the NOS parts added in today's posts!   I am sure glad my Daytona had steel wheels with hubcaps after I see what your going through to make an authentic set! WOW!

[hemi68charger]

Geno.... Thanks for the update... Things are looking grand.......... 

[gtx6970]

Gene,
I applaud your efforts in a monumental way. So I'm gonna ask, when are you going to start selling copies of the picture CD

ps- the pieces for your 'parts car ' are enroute

[XS29J8]

Geno, this is undeniably one of if not the greatest documented restos of all time.    I hope I live to see the end results!     Congrats on your efforts and hopefully all the great info in this thread can be edited for use at some give point........ 



Steve

[hemigeno]

Thanks for the kind comments on the car, everyone.  Those of you who know me very well also know I don't get overly excited about too much, but I am definitely ready for this restoration to be over.  After all, Jonathan was 8 years old when I dropped the car off    Steve's comment unfortunately has some merit:

I hope I live to see the end results!  

Even though I'm ready for the end, I am still as determined as ever not to push things along or "cut corners" just to forever wish that I hadn't done so at this late stage.  I've never been fixated on getting the car done by a certain date, although missing Talladega last year was as close as I'll get to being disappointed about how long it's taken.  Vance has been awesome about patiently waiting for some of these parts supply issues to be settled, and he's been gracious when I've asked him to re-do work that they took great pains to make look just so - only to have to rip it back apart because I've found something that will make it just a little bit better.  Even though it's "job security" in one sense, it's still got to be at least a little frustrating... There could be a fair amount of going on after I leave his shop sometimes.

although I did get a shock yesterday when he told me he didn't want to learn to drive a manual transmission car... heresy, I tell ya!  

If any of my sons told me this, I'd be slapping their mother to find out who REALLY fathered that child!

 The poor kid looks too much like me when I was his age to question his heritage, but like Stu said - there's still some time to bring him around.

when are you going to start selling copies of the picture CD

ps- the pieces for your 'parts car ' are enroute

Bill, in my mind a thread like this one does a better job of documenting the car's progress, details and nuances than a picture disc would.  While I pore over the pictures like anyone else, the explanations are what make it all come together at least for me.  Plus, there are a number of things that have been pointed out by the eagle-eyed experts which have later been changed/documented.  It might be hard to follow the discussion about why something either is or is not correct without the narratives & replies.  Speaking of which...

[hemi68charger]

Bill, in my mind a thread like this one does a better job of documenting the car's progress, details and nuances than a picture disc would.  While I pore over the pictures like anyone else, the explanations are what make it all come together at least for me.  Plus, there are a number of things that have been pointed out by the eagle-eyed experts which have later been changed/documented.  It might be hard to follow the discussion about why something either is or is not correct without the narratives & replies.  Speaking of which...

It would be nice to be able to save this complete thread on CD. Heaven forbid anything happen to the forum's database, it would be gone.......

[Rolling_Thunder]

Bill, in my mind a thread like this one does a better job of documenting the car's progress, details and nuances than a picture disc would.  While I pore over the pictures like anyone else, the explanations are what make it all come together at least for me.  Plus, there are a number of things that have been pointed out by the eagle-eyed experts which have later been changed/documented.  It might be hard to follow the discussion about why something either is or is not correct without the narratives & replies.  Speaking of which...

It would be nice to be able to save this complete thread on CD. Heaven forbid anything happen to the forum's database, it would be gone.......

^ agreed

[hemigeno]

Looking good Geno.

 There will be a lot of people who deserve an assist for the end result, however it turns out.  You'll be high on that list, as I've learned a ton from your willingness to take the time and critique the progress pictures.  Thanks, Jim!

I too have that sticker on my 69-X's shifter.....gotta dig up a pic.

I have found quite a few 69 assembly line shifter rods are silver cad. Here is a pic of my X and I have the same ones on my survivor Runner and on Boat-Tona. Not saying Zinc Phos wasn't ever used, just that all I have seen are silver cad. Old Cad will wear and rust and look dark after many years. All the NOS ones I have ever bought were Zinc Phos.

Sorry if my plating/coating terminology is off, as you've seen numerous mis-quotes from me on stuff like that.  The shift rods in your picture look to be in pretty good shape, and not like the ones I've seen on my other trannys.  My originals were very crusty but didn't appear to have any signs of silver.  I have a couple of other transmission assemblies, one was an untouched unit taken from a St. Louis-built '69 HemiCharger with a January SPD (not my other car, incidentally).  Its rods were a little crusty and definitely not silver, but that could have been a timeperiod thing.  Vance mentioned before that the rods may have been left bare (explains why the ones I've seen have had as much rust scale), so it's possible that whatever coating is on my current set of rods is technically incorrect.  Could also be that Zinc Phos was used to prevent rust on a parts department's shelves??  If we end up having to replate the shift rods in silver cad, one downside is that the tooling marks would have been made after the original coating was applied so some definition would be lost.  We'll have to do some more research, as I'm honestly not sure what's "correct" and what's not.  Great distinction to make, for sure.

Here is a pic of my ground strap. You can still see remnants of masking tape on the terminal and see how far down they masked this one.

I'm wondering if the masking detail was one which varied from car to car.  If I'm not mistaken, I think Vance had another used/original ground wire hanging on his wall that had similar paint all the way out.  It makes perfect sense why they would have masked it off, I guess the question is - was this a universal treatment or not.  Either way, it begs the question and I appreciate your pointing out this distinction.  Always learning something through this whole process...

Incidentally, is the ground strap connector turned around the opposite way from how mine is currently mounted?   

That slot head screw on your voltage regulator need to be a hex head. That fastener and the little clamp it holds down is getting harder to find.

Thanks for the tip, Jim.  I'm assuming the style of the clamp/fastener changed over time?  If I'm not mistaken, that was a new VR - but your point is duly noted.  After reading your reply, I went out to the shop and found a stash of 9 old VR's I bought on the cheap many years ago to use as cores.  Out of those 9, only one of them had the hex head screw and clamp - the rest had a slotted screw.  They're both in half-way decent shape, but will need to be replated before using.  That'll go on the pile to take up to Vance next time.  Excellent detail to point out.  

[hemigeno]

It would be nice to be able to save this complete thread on CD. Heaven forbid anything happen to the forum's database, it would be gone.......

^ agreed

There might be a way for Troy to work some forum magic here, I dunno.

[nascarxx29]

I been following this thread from the begining.The Daytona looks great and what a learning process on the factory correctness finer detail points has been shared by all on this resto
They have managed to keep best of moparts threads from way back.In their archives as this 71 page all wingcars post from 2003.Still there to study . Lets hope its doable on this informative daytona restoration on here.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=585449&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

[hemigeno]

That slot head screw on your voltage regulator need to be a hex head. That fastener and the little clamp it holds down is getting harder to find.

So, is this the fastener and clamp I seek? 

[maxwellwedge]

Hey Geno

I would stick with those shifter rods - I was just saying all that I looked at (that weren't changed or spray-bomb restored) were silver. I am sure whatever plating met the factories Mil Spec was suitable and did vary.

I would say since the ground strap masking (and any other masking) was done by humans it could vary a heck of a lot.

I can't tell the difference on how the two pics show the cable being installed but I think I can see theat the crimp is outward in both pics.

I have never seen the slot screw on any date coded original to the car VR's but it could have happened. I like the hex/clamp set-up as it makes more engineering sense to me.....kinda the same set-up on the starter relay.

Get a third party to teach your son on manual transmissions. It is too easy to yell at family while teaching. I learned this (painfully) years ago trying to teach my wife.  

Again - Car is looking great!  

[maxwellwedge]

That slot head screw on your voltage regulator need to be a hex head. That fastener and the little clamp it holds down is getting harder to find.

So, is this the fastener and clamp I seek? 

Yessir!

[hemigeno]

I been following this thread from the begining.The Daytona looks great and what a learning process on the factory correctness finer detail points has been shared by all on this resto

Thanks, Dave.  

[hemigeno]

Get a third party to teach your son on manual transmissions. It is too easy to yell at family while teaching. I learned this (painfully) years ago trying to teach my wife.  

Wise advice...

I had a very patient grandfather who taught me to drive a stick just after getting my license.  He and I were travelling about 4 hours away to a jobsite, and his truck at the time was a little 4cyl. Ford Ranger pickup with a stick.  He asked if I knew how to drive a manual transmission, and I told him "No".  He said "You will by the time we get there" and tossed me the keys.  The clutch and U-Joints on the truck were probably just as glad as I was when we got there, but we made it.

[hemigeno]

I can't tell the difference on how the two pics show the cable being installed but I think I can see theat the crimp is outward in both pics.

It looked like the crimp was inward when I first looked at your pic, which I found curious and is why I made the earlier comment.  You're right though.

Thanks again for all the help!

[Dave Kanofsky]

"Get a third party to teach your son on manual transmissions. It is too easy to yell at family while teaching"

I'll do it!  Just throw me the keys to that big red car when it's done and I'll teach the boy how to drive a stickshift.  We'll only go through a tank or two of fuel, I swear!

The only thing more fun than driving a wing car is driving someone else's wingcar!
(even if it is Pettybird stuffing me in his B5 car at Wellborn's Place )