Tried to start engine break in... *Update 6/18*

[grdprx]

Couldn't get it to fire..  Had spark and poured a bit of gas in the carb a few times.  We messed with the distributor, twisting back and forth.  Battery died from cranking so much.  Not good, I know.  Starter smoked a bit as the battery died.  Hope it's not fried!

So, is my timing off or what?

[tan top]

 for a start i would make sure ,  no1 piston is at TDC , the timing mark in the harmonic balancer  is 0 on the timing tab & the rotor arm is pointing to number one on the cap !  motor will always start ! , if every thing is correct how it should be

[BigBlackDodge]

The timing could be 180 degrees off too..


BBD

[1BAD68]

for a start i would make sure ,  no1 piston is at TDC , the timing mark in the harmonic balancer  is 0 on the timing tab & the rotor arm is pointing to number one on the cap !  motor will always start ! , if every thing is correct how it should be

Yup, thats called static timing. All the engines I've done have started on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd crank because of that.
If you have it static timed you can wiggle the distributor with the key in the run position and watch the #1 spark plug fire.

[grdprx]

I have #1 on the compression stroke, and set the distributor to that. 

I'm searching on here, I think the cam timing mark may be installed wrong.  If I remember correctly, (it's been almost 2 years...)  The book said have the crank mark at 12 o'clock and the cam at 6.  There are threads that state both should be at high noon..   

If this is the case, can I turn the distributor 180, or do I have to pull the water pump housing and pull the timing cover?

I'll have to go get my book to refresh my memory.

[1BAD68]

What engine? Its always been crank 12, cam 6 from what I can remember so that should be fine.

[grdprx]

440

[1BAD68]

If you have it at 12 and 6 then just try 180'ing the distributor. It only takes a few minutes and its a really common mistake when assembling.

[grdprx]

So, one mechanic said the slot on the oil pump drive needs to be parallel to the cam after it's dropped onto the cam drive.  That way the distibutor lines up with it.  never heard this before...

I tried to switch the distributor 180, but I think the starter may have crapped out from cranking too much yesterday.  One battery, just clicked the starter.  The one out of my pickup turned it over at first, then after the plug wires and everything got re-hooked up, the starter just clicked again.  Starts my pickup just fine though.

It was a new - rebuilt Napa model..  the stock one to the car..  not a mini.  probably need to get it tested or something.

[1BAD68]

I'm guessing that the distributor was in right the first time, if its 180 out it will be hard to crank because of the compression.
You should put it back the way it was and then turn the engine by hand to #1 TDC on compression stroke, take the #1 spark wire and place near a ground.
Turn the key to on and wiggle the distributor back and forth, when you see the spark wire spark, lock down the distributor.
Mopar starters are pretty tough so I dont think it would be smoked and I've never heard of the oil pump thing either.
Charge up your battery and then crank it over, if you have gas it should fire off.
If it does then walk over to the fridge and grab a cold one and set your timing to where you want it.

[flyinlow]

also check carb for fuel, if the accelerator pump is not squirting , bottle feed the carb with an old gear oil bottle full of gas and a piece of gas hose.

a fire extinguisher near by is always a good idea on the first start.

[TylerCharger69]

If you assemble the engine with the crank marker at 12 o'clock, and the cam gear marker at 6 o'clock then the rotor on the distributor should be pointing to cylinder 6.....not cylinder 1....it's a very common assembly mistake.

[grdprx]

Well, the starter is no good.  Ordered up the DB Electric Mini Starter, we'll see how it goes once I get it.

[grdprx]

If you assemble the engine with the crank marker at 12 o'clock, and the cam gear marker at 6 o'clock then the rotor on the distributor should be pointing to cylinder 6.....not cylinder 1....it's a very common assembly mistake.

Ok, a question in reference to the "180" of the distributor...  (I've had too much time on my hands to think about this, and have confused myself)

Am I pulling the distributor up, and flipping the rotor 180, and leave the wires where they sit under current configuration; or do I flip it 180 and redo the wires at the new #1 position?  Because, currently the engine is at TDC on #1, on the compression stroke.  That's that part that is confusing me..  Since #1 is TDC and such...

Received the starter and got that in, and am ready to try break in again.  Also had time to fix the steering coupler while I was waiting for the starter to arrive.  So, it was productive down time.  Now that the coupler is done, I can put the brake booster in..  (thought I could use a little room while messing with the coupler and I hadn't bled them yet) 

Engine break in could turn into break in and then first drive!!!    

[grdprx]

So, I found the book I used to assemble the motor.. How to Rebuild Big-Block Mopar Engines.  by Don Taylor.  Great book, excellent directions and instruction.

Anyway, on the Cam & Crank Timing section, it says #1, Rotate the crank and cam until these two marks are as close together as possible.  The mark on the crank sprocket will be straight down and the mark on the cam will be straight up.  #2, Using a machinist's straight-edge against the cam sprocket on center with the cam and the crankshaft, rotate both cam and crank sprockets until both timing marks are aligned.  When the two timing marks are aligned with the centers of the cam and crank sprockets, the crank and cam are correctly timed.

If I remember correctly, that 2nd step comfused me just a bit.  Anyway, I interpreted that as having the cam and crank marks toward each other...

[flyinlow]

With the engine on #1 cylinder compression stroke ( forward cylinder on drivers side blowing finger off sparkplug hole as you bump the engine with the starter)  align timing mark on the vibration dampener with the zero mark the timing chain cover. Follow the # 1 plug wire back to the distributor. The rotor should be pointing to that electrode on the inside of the cap. If 180* off. Pull dist. and rotate 180*. If degrees off by a number not 180 *( 60 * for example) you have two choices. Pull all eight wires and move accordingly or pull the distributor,then the oil pump drive and re-index it .

The engine dos not care how you install the dist. as long as it fires the spark plugs slightly before tdc on the compression stroke in the correct order of 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.  There are eigth ways to do this, however most use the standard factory setup for common points of reference.

The crankshaft dos not care if the cam is correct or 180* out.  It will care if the cam is 005*-175* or 185*-355* out of time.

To set static timing for startup. Rotate engine  to 10* btdc compression stroke #1 cylinder. Pull #1 plug wire and put a spare plug in the wire. Lay the plug on the engine touching the metal. Turn on the ignition switch. Loosen the dist. holdown and move the distributor slight forward or backward untill the dist fires the  spark plug. Tighten the holdown . This should be close enough to start.

[flyinlow]

A rotor with the plastic alighnment key damaged can really mees up things.

[elacruze]

It doesn't matter whether the timing marks are up or down, as long as they are aligned with the cam and crank centers. As the engine rotates, eventually the marks will both be up and down, together and separately because the cam turns at 1/2 crank.

So, that only means you need to figure out where your timing is. You can pull #1 plug and put a finger over the hole, while turning (by hand/breaker bar) the engine over. When you feel compression, just bring the damper timing up to about 15* before top center, and install the distributor with the rotor at #1 plug. Follow Flyinlow's directions for getting a little closer.

Now, don't do what I did the first time-fail to keep engine RPM's up high enough to oil the cam and wipe it out. I was scared of hurting rings or bearings or cylinder walls and took the cam. Next time, I screwed that baby up to 2200 rpm and set the timing while it ran. As long as the timing isn't way retarded you'll be fine for the first heat cycle, you can dial it in close later. If the timing is too advanced you'll know it because it will be hard to roll through compression.

[grdprx]

I tried to set the dist. by checking the spark on #1 with the ignition on...  I saw no spark. 

When we first tried to start it last time, my father inlaw saw spark from the coil wire; but that was 2 weeks ago...

I have a slightly different electronic distributor, one that doesn't require the "brain box"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-CHRYSLER-DODGE-440-426-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-6714-R_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem51915c2079QQitemZ350331084921QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I'll have to check a few things, it seems

[flyinlow]

I would think turning the ignition on and off quickly would make the system spark. Not familiar with that distributor.

The only weekness with the Mopar electronic ignition was the ballast resistors occasional got wet and would burn out. Still rare.

GM 's HEI has a control modual it is just inside the distributor. HEI's had a problem with rotor burn thru.

[grdprx]

So, it's been like 3 weeks since I tried firing this beast up.  Weather isn't cooperating for another go at it, with the new starter and all...

I'm still smelling a strong fuel smell, it's beginning to make me wonder...   Is it normal to have a strong fuel odor under the hood?

[lisiecki1]

not uncommon to have that smell on carbureted cars when they have been sitting a bit.....what kind of carb is on there?

[tan top]

prolly flooded , with all that trying to start ! cant work out what this damn think wont fire !! , think by now if every thing else as it should be , i would be taking off the front timing cover & checking  cam to crank timing marks 

[grdprx]

I did have a fuel leak!  The hard line out of the fuel pump had a crack on the flare...     Oh well, got a new piece of hard line, going to bend it and replace it.  Might try starting over the weekend.  See if anything works, else I'll have to check those timing marks...  Thanks.

[AmadeusCharger500]

Once you find tdc on number one piston Look at the rotor and make sure its pointing at plug number one. Try to mark the location somehow visually on an engine part or whatever and then put the cap on and advance it a small turn. If you don't hear it fire then I'd suggest checking the ignition spark. If you were unsure of the cam mark check that once you have TDC. Just pull the distributor and look inside with a light.