Ever regret working on a friends car?

[TUFCAT]

Rob, I'm going to say it again.....from my experience and knowledge you did nothing wrong.

THE ENGINE ONLY ROTATES ONE WAY REGARDLESS OF THE TRANSMISSION GEAR SELECTED!!!!!

It shouldn't matter if it was started in reverse being dragged uphill, rolling down hill sideways, frontwards, backwards, underwater, or even on the MOON.....!!!

This engine will only spin one way.

The more believable story could be a problem with the trans reverse. Of course its totally dependent on the actual load the trans took when the cluch was popped. Factor in its age, wear and tear, and it sounds like a beater truck that was waiting to break down.  

Think about it from this point of view......if it was a newer, low mileage, properly maintaned vehicle, this scenario would never cause the problems you described.

Guys ....if I'm wrong,  please chime in.  

According to my friend the only thing that might have occured (based on the symptoms you described) could be a jumped timing chain if it was already loose and worn.

[1969chargerrtse]

Rob, I'm going to say it again.....from my experience and knowledge you did nothing wrong.

THE ENGINE ONLY ROTATES ONE WAY REGARDLESS OF THE TRANSMISSION GEAR SELECTED!!!!!

It shouldn't matter if it was started in reverse being dragged uphill, rolling down hill sideways, frontwards, backwards, underwater, or even on the MOON.....!!!

This engine will only spin one way.

The more believable story could be a problem with the trans reverse. Of course its totally dependent on the actual load the trans took when the clutch was popped. Factor in its age, wear and tear, and it sounds like a beater truck that was waiting to break down.  

Think about it from this point of view......if it was a newer, low mileage, properly maintained vehicle, this scenario would never cause the problems you described.

Guys ....if I'm wrong, please chime in.  

According to my friend the only thing that might have occurred (based on the symptoms you described) could be a jumped timing chain if it was already loose and worn.

I hope you're right but I just don't see it? It's all 100% mechanical gears tying the tire rotation to the motor rotation. If the motor is going clockwise and in reverse gear the tires go ccw, then if you roll down a drive way with cw tires wouldn't the motor roll ccw?  
If you put a non running car on flat land in reverse gear and rolled it back and forth, wouldn't the motor rock back and forth?

[TUFCAT]

Rob, take a moment.


Forget about clockwise or counter clockwise engine rotation!

Image...YOU are driving a manual transmission 1994 Ford Truck.

The vehicle starts rolling down a hill in nuetral.

In this example (to eliminate any possibilty of drivetrain damage) its a gravel road,  and there's just enough traction so your rear wheels won't catch traction and lock up....

....coasting enough that you are starting the gain momentum.

Now you decide to pop the clutch in reverse.

This is what happens to the engine ----it says "HELLO, the crank is spinning and I want to start!!!!

This what happens to the trans - - it says "HELLO Somebody put me in reverse.....I'll try to stop the rear wheels from going forward and engage in reverse!!

This results in the rear wheels locking up, or skiding depending on the amount off traction it has to override.

[TUFCAT]

The bottom line is the drivetrain is the weakest point!! It has to overcome gravity and traction.

Normally in this situation you might expect a manual transmission or a differential to break.....

Certainly not an engine.   The engine still thinks she moving forward!  If the transmission, or the differential (which is the weakest point by the way) had a catastrophic failure,  your buddy's engine will keep going forward, singin' a happy song....or course we're eliminating any chance that it could be ready to break at any minute  

In this scenario, any known good engine would have no actual clue as to what the hell just happened behind it when the clutch dropped!!  

Remember, I wish you all the best Rob, ...and you know that!    

[1969chargerrtse]

I just can't grab your ideas?  Hopefully there will be other comments.  I'll ask around and of course I know you wish me best.  It's odd though that when I realized I was dropping the clutch in reverse after the popping and switched to 4th gear it started right up.  Doesn't run well, but started up.  I think I moved the timing chain, or blew some plastic intake parts.  

[b5blue]

Hold on I'm doing the math.....^.....v......<.....>......<>.......><,,,,\\??......@......^>......v<.......X+Y=Z-A! Nope if you put it in 1st and move it backwards the engine must move backwards, so if you put it in reverse and move it forward the engine would rotate backwards! TUF I totally get how nothing should break unless the timing chain/belt jumps as all rotating parts are synchronized.....but something let go on combustion. Now that I think about it have bumped my old Vega (overhead cam, with the water pump as timing belt tension-er  ) in first gear, forward and backwards to jog the cranks rotation trying to align top and bottom cogs when working alone.       

[Topher]

There's a vacuum hose that is bad to split on Ferds. It is one of the main feeds to something, I just don't remember what. I learned a long time ago that if someone asks me to do something, and I pause with the answer, that's my sign to say no.

[A383Wing]

Hold on I'm doing the math.....^.....v......<.....>......<>.......><,,,,\\??......@......^>......v<.......X+Y=Z-A! Nope if you put it in 1st and move it backwards the engine must move backwards, so if you put it in reverse and move it forward the engine would rotate backwards! TUF I totally get how nothing should break unless the timing chain/belt jumps as all rotating parts are synchronized.....but something let go on combustion. Now that I think about it have bumped my old Vega (overhead cam, with the water pump as timing belt tension-er  ) in first gear, forward and backwards to jog the cranks rotation trying to align top and bottom cogs when working alone.       

Yup..what he said...if car was rolling forward and trans was in reverse...engine would be spun backwards....

[b5blue]

So on counter the normal rotation it would fire as the intake was opening! BAM big old backfire= blown hose or plastic part. Now we are getting somewhere. 

[TUFCAT]

I still disagree with you guys...you can't spin the engine backwards with a manual trans without majorly breaking a drivetrain component in the meantime.  

Anyone want to prove me wrong??

Either way fellas, when the clutch is dropped (no matter if the vehicle is moving forward, backwards, sideways, upside down, frontside up..... ), the crank will always be spinning the same way - - and the engine should want to start! The crank never spins backwards when the transmission enganges into reverse.  Think about it!!  

A Transmission has no idea that the vehicle its connected to is rolling down a hill.

It wants to engage like its going forward 100% of the time.  

[A383Wing]

Unless I missed it, nobody has said whut motor is in this truck. If it's a V8, like the 5.0 or 5.8, those have a bad habit of loosing the vacuum hose's off the top of the intake.

[A383Wing]

I still disagree with you guys...you can't spin the engine backwards with a manual trans. 

Yes, you can, simple logic here...

If you have engine running normal, and you put trans in reverse, car will back up because tires are turning backwards.

If you have trans in reverse, and you have tires going forward, engine will be spun backwards.

[TUFCAT]

I still disagree with you guys...you can't spin the engine backwards with a manual trans.  

Yes, you can, simple logic here...

If you have engine running normal, and you put trans in reverse, car will back up because tires are turning backwards.

If you have trans in reverse, and you have tires going forward, engine will be spun backwards.

I disagree.....the tires will SKID before the engine turns backward....then either a trans or diff explodes, then engine. In that order.

Like I said, prove me wrong. Maybe i'm full of shit? 

[1969chargerrtse]

Sad to say I think I'm the one proving you wrong.     The fuel injectors shot fuel in there, the tires did skid but still rolled the engine backwards a bit as it popped. Then I rolled more and dumped the clutch again and it fired, backwards and blew out the intake instead of exhaust.   I hear ya but still think I'm at fault. It drove up to my house fine and fired right up when rolled forward in a forward gear.

[TUFCAT]

Sad to say I think I'm the one proving you wrong.     The fuel injectors shot fuel in there, the tires did skid but still rolled the engine backwards a bit as it popped. Then I rolled more and dumped the clutch again and it fired, backwards and blew out the intake instead of exhaust.   I hear ya but still think I'm at fault. It drove up to my house fine and fired right up when rolled forward in a forward gear.

Rob, then I may have to take your side on this one....your theory could be right with computer controlled ignition - - who knows?  Anyway, I tried to share my knowledge. I sincerely hope it can be applied in your case.  Remember I think (and was tought) old school. I appreciate, and try to understand all that modern technology when it comes to engine controls...but I really have no idea what happens in a milli-second!

Here's my bottom line.  I hope you don't have to pay a lot of money for this. If you do end up footing some of the bill, well then, you're one helluva stand up guy.

But we already knew that going in.  

[Silver R/T]

I still disagree with you guys...you can't spin the engine backwards with a manual trans. 

Yes, you can, simple logic here...

If you have engine running normal, and you put trans in reverse, car will back up because tires are turning backwards.

If you have trans in reverse, and you have tires going forward, engine will be spun backwards.

I disagree.....the tires will SKID before the engine turns backward....then either a trans or diff explodes, then engine. In that order.

Like I said, prove me wrong. Maybe i'm full of shit? 

I agree, engine will just stall and will lock up tires and your face would hit the dash and/or steering wheel

[A383Wing]

I agree, engine will just stall and will lock up tires and your face would hit the dash and/or steering wheel

read first post again...engine was not running...he had it in reverse gear and then let clutch out while truck was going forward...engine spun backwards

I have 3 cars here with manual transmissions....when in reverse gear, and you push the car forward, engine will rotate backwards.

Anyone with a manual trans vehicle can prove this is right, put your car or truck in reverse gear, and gently push the vehicle forward, watch the crank rotation....bet it rotates counter-clockwise (I'm not saying roll car down hill or anything...just give it a slight push from behind and watch the crankshaft)

[1969chargerrtse]

I agree, engine will just stall and will lock up tires and your face would hit the dash and/or steering wheel

read first post again...engine was not running...he had it in reverse gear and then let clutch out while truck was going forward...engine spun backwards

I have 3 cars here with manual transmissions....when in reverse gear, and you push the car forward, engine will rotate backwards.

Anyone with a manual trans vehicle can prove this is right, put your car or truck in reverse gear, and gently push the vehicle forward, watch the crank rotation....bet it rotates counter-clockwise (I'm not saying roll car down hill or anything...just give it a slight push from behind and watch the crankshaft)

[1969chargerrtse]

Sad to say I think I'm the one proving you wrong.     The fuel injectors shot fuel in there, the tires did skid but still rolled the engine backwards a bit as it popped. Then I rolled more and dumped the clutch again and it fired, backwards and blew out the intake instead of exhaust.   I hear ya but still think I'm at fault. It drove up to my house fine and fired right up when rolled forward in a forward gear.

Rob, then I may have to take your side on this one....your theory could be right with computer controlled ignition - - who knows?  Anyway, I tried to share my knowledge. I sincerely hope it can be applied in your case.  Remember I think (and was tought) old school. I appreciate, and try to understand all that modern technology when it comes to engine controls...but I really have no idea what happens in a milli-second!

Here's my bottom line.  I hope you don't have to pay a lot of money for this. If you do end up footing some of the bill, well then, you're one helluva stand up guy.

But we already knew that going in.  

Thanks, hey we tried.   I have to foot the bill.  A guy drives his normal running car to my car house.  I blow it up.  I gotta fix it. Oh well.  I did tell him in payments, so it hurts less.

[694spdRT]

One time my little S10 4cyl 5 speed misfired on ignition, when I started it again it let out a belch and blew a main hose going to the intake. I forget which hose it was now but it popped and belched like crazy until I finally realized what happened and reconnected the hose.

[NGC414]

It sounds like it just backfired through the intake, I would bet its going to be a simple fix. Just a matter of finding which line blew off the intake.
Was it a 5.0 or a 5.8?
Both are very cheap to find parts for and easy work on, I have two complete 5.8 roller engines sitting in my shop from 95 Fords (I run the 351w short blocks in my mustang). I just tore one down to the short block and there are plenty of vaccume lines to check. Keep us posted on what the shop says.
EDIT- I see the year being a 94 in the original post has been changed to a 1999. If its a 99 it has a 4.6 or 5.4 modular motor, so its not going to be a 5.0 or 5.8

[GunMetal]

Us rednecks watch NASCAR all the time. Every now and again one of the good ole boys will spin and roll backwards with the trans in forward gears. Sometimes he gets away without problems, sometimes not. Yet most times the announcers will wonder if "...he's spun the engine backwards?". I've seen it take them out of the race. Sorry Tufcat, gotta go with 69chagerrtse on this one. 
      69, I also go with the Karma philosophy,you're a stand-up guy in my book too.
Hope it's just a vac line blown off and an easy fix. Good luck

[1969chargerrtse]

Thanks for the compliments but I wouldn't plan on the hose thing as working out. I checked every air line. I pulled the one way air valve of for the booster and it worked correct and there was no vacuum coming from that line which went straight to the throat intake. I also didn't hear any leaks?  We shall see. 

[chargergirl]

I still disagree with you guys...you can't spin the engine backwards with a manual trans without majorly breaking a drivetrain component in the meantime.  

Anyone want to prove me wrong??

Either way fellas, when the clutch is dropped (no matter if the vehicle is moving forward, backwards, sideways, upside down, frontside up..... ), the crank will always be spinning the same way - - and the engine should want to start! The crank never spins backwards when the transmission enganges into reverse.  Think about it!!  

A Transmission has no idea that the vehicle its connected to is rolling down a hill.

It wants to engage like its going forward 100% of the time.  

Agreed with the transmission issue. The engine rotates only one way. Jumped time. Cause lean condition and black smoke to come out of pipes...or did the engine only get smoke?

[TUFCAT]

Thanks Chargergirl...I feel the same way as you do.....

however as I said, I was tought old school technology.

69chargerrtse is dealing with an engine that may have been adversely effected by its own modern electronic engine controls.

Who really knows what happened?

In a [previous post] I stood by my theory, but yielded to my lack of understanding of electronic engine controls.  Basically I still support the fact that the engine only spins one way.

However.......with computerized engine management anything is possible.  Possibly there wasn't enough crank rotation recorded at the processor?

Anyway, I hope its a simple fix.