Got my 440....check it out.

[super_dave]

So went for a three hour drive yesterday and picked up the slug 440, pretty good starting point I figure since I had nothing to start with other than a block.  This unit is pretty complete, what do you think?

[super_dave]

more

[super_dave]

more

[super_dave]

more

[super_dave]

Whoa...those are big pictures....sorry, should have resized them!  OK, resized!!

[ChgrSteve67]

You don't want that old boat anchor.

I better stop by and take it off your hands.

[Daytona R/T SE]

Looks to me like it came out of an Imperial

[tan top]

  looks like it has 452 heads    , oh no maybe not  , thought that was a cast I on the ends of the heads

[AKcharger]

That's the best 440...EVER!

[super_dave]

Thanks guys....now I want to clean this thing up, but no real experience, so gonna have a bunch of questions.  I pulled the intake and one head off last night to check it out.  Gonna post some pics, does everything look alright?

There was quite abit of carbon debris sitting on top of pistons, some loose pieces.  Normal?

That rusty tin thing under the intake...is that the gasket?  Had some blue gasket sealer under the ends too...is that normal.  Does it need to be replaced.

Do I need to replace the head gaskets once I seperate them?  What / where are the torque specs for reassembly?

I want to repaint this whole engine, do I just wire brush off the loose paint, clean up and respray.  Can I just use spray bombs...high heat enamel?

I know lots of questions...but this is my first kick at the can..

[super_dave]

Few more pics

[super_dave]

Does that look like stock build?  So do I need to pull the other head off or does it look like it should?  If so, do I just buy new intake and head gaskets, bolt it back together, paint it and "tada" I'm done??
What are your thoughts please....appreciatte it

[BigBlockSam]

 

[nvrbdn]

did you check compression before the tear down? how deep is the lip at the top of the cylinder? if the engine had good fairly even compression across the board, then get new head gaskets and vally pan gasket, basically a rebuild gasket set is what you need. i dont have all the torque spec's here but can post them tonight. now is a good time if you want to upgrade the cam and lifters since i will be advising you to change the timing chain. clean the carbon off the valves and piston heads. examine all the cylinder walls. the carbon build up will cause pre-detionation.

[super_dave]

did you check compression before the tear down? how deep is the lip at the top of the cylinder? if the engine had good fairly even compression across the board, then get new head gaskets and vally pan gasket, basically a rebuild gasket set is what you need. i dont have all the torque spec's here but can post them tonight. now is a good time if you want to upgrade the cam and lifters since i will be advising you to change the timing chain. clean the carbon off the valves and piston heads. examine all the cylinder walls. the carbon build up will cause pre-detionation.

Umm, no did not check compression...crap!
The lip at top of cylinder is max 1/4"...I found the torque specs online...and ordered new head gaskets and intake manifold gasket..

I cleaned the top of one piston with a wire brush attachment on a drill, with light pressure.  Can I use same approach on the valves...I only have removed the one head so far...can I check compression on that side yet?  Is there a compression test tool that you just screw into the spark plug hole?  Crap, I wish I thought of that before tearing it down...

Experience is the WORST teacher....it always gives you the test BEFORE the lesson!

[super_dave]

While I'm at it, should I just tear this whole thing down, never done anything like an engine before, but have good mechanical skills.  Should I pull the water pump, starter, distributer and everything.  This engine is new to me, so I don't know whats going on in terms of reliability, history etc..

[nvrbdn]

ok first when i talked about the lip in the cylinder i was talking about how much wear inside the cylinder wall. if you have the piston down and rub your finger from bottom of cyl wall toward the top you will feel the lip at the top. you can still check compression on the other bank. yes there is a screw in compression gauge. yes, take off the water pump and timing cover. watch for bolts comming from the pan holding the timing cover on. you will most likely find that the timing chain has a lot of play or slop in it. any time you have any tear down, change the chain and gears. they arent that expensive and will save you later. get a good double roller chain. if you just order a complete gasket set usually less than 60.00 plus shipping, it will have all the gaskets you need. also since you are tore down, get the other head off. those gaskwets are old. even if they dont leak yet, they are bad.as you said with the other rusty one. i wouldnt use anything too course for that carbon cleanup!!! we dont want to chew up the cylinder walls with a wire brush. i would try to clean up with solvents.

[nvrbdn]

actually with the piston top dead i guess you wont be seeing any cylinder walls so it shouldnt hurt to get the crust off that wont budge by using the wire brush as long as its soft wire.

[FLG]

Get this book

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/188-0380900-3538921?a=1557881901

And you'll be good to go.

Are you looking to rebuild this one or build something a little better?

If you look at my thread I tried to keep things inexpensive for my 446 build, worked out pretty well.

[grdprx]

Get this book

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/188-0380900-3538921?a=1557881901

And you'll be good to go.

Are you looking to rebuild this one or build something a little better?

If you look at my thread I tried to keep things inexpensive for my 446 build, worked out pretty well.

Love that book!  That's how I built my engine, and I'd never done anything like it before either.   

[FLG]

Yep, Ron told me to get it so I did..it came in the mail a few days ago...great info.

[super_dave]

Ok, sounds like the advice is tear it down and clean up....will keep you posted...gonna need helpful advice, thanks guys!

[nvrbdn]

looks like you have a decent starting point. enjoy the tear down and cleanup. its a great learning experience and will give you alot of knowledge about how it all works.good luck dave. gona be a sweet car.

[firefighter3931]

That's a nice start....forged crank and all. 

Can you see any cross hatch on the cylinder walls ?


Ron

[super_dave]

Get this book

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/188-0380900-3538921?a=1557881901

And you'll be good to go.

Are you looking to rebuild this one or build something a little better?

If you look at my thread I tried to keep things inexpensive for my 446 build, worked out pretty well.

Ah, the book...good advice.  Thanks!

[super_dave]

looks like you have a decent starting point. enjoy the tear down and cleanup. its a great learning experience and will give you alot of knowledge about how it all works.good luck dave. gona be a sweet car.

Thanks, it has been enjoyable so far, though my wife laughed at me when I came in this evening....I think I was pretty dirty.  Made good progress today though!

[super_dave]

That's a nice start....forged crank and all. 

Can you see any cross hatch on the cylinder walls ?


Ron

Thanks Ron!  Pulled the other head off, among other things and spent few hours cleaning.  Cylinder walls look great, couple of them have very light scores in them, more like a scuff, engine is still nice and tight.  One thing I noticed though is that the top of every cylinder has a little ding in it.  Looks like it may be from one of the valves, as it has same round pattern.  I wouldn't know if it was the intake or exhaust valve though, as they look fine.  I cleaned them also and literally took 1/8" or more of carbon and white crust from the centre of them, they were practically flat.  Have not taken pics yet, but will. 

Next is to get the tranny off.  Just remove the bell housing bolts and seperate?  I've left it on for now, cause keeps the motor nicely in place, othrwise it will just b resting on the oil pan.

Thanks guys!

[375instroke]

Remove the torque converter bolts first.

[TylerCharger69]

Can someone cross-reference that casting number to determine the year of that block??

[Hansson]

66-72

[TylerCharger69]

66-72?    Yeah...You're in good shape!!   

[super_dave]

OK, going well, need some advice though.  Priced out a gasket set here in cCanada, 187.00 not including intake gasket....ouch.  Any online sources I should check.
Secondly, a recommendation on new distributor? What size headers should I use....source?  I think I will take the carb to someone who knows about those and get it cleaned up.  Also, ssource for a new timing chain and cover.  Found an Ebay site with most, but need the Dodge community blessing..  It's KMJ performance...these guys alright?  Thanks. 

Edit:  Think I'll just use 440 source for everything....any guys use them for shipping to Canada....big hassle...duties / taxes / delays?

[jpsycoboy5]

OK, going well, need some advice though.  Priced out a gasket set here in cCanada, 187.00 not including intake gasket....ouch.  Any online sources I should check.
Secondly, a recommendation on new distributor? What size headers should I use....source?  I think I will take the carb to someone who knows about those and get it cleaned up.  Also, ssource for a new timing chain and cover.  Found an Ebay site with most, but need the Dodge community blessing..  It's KMJ performance...these guys alright?  Thanks. 

Edit:  Think I'll just use 440 source for everything....any guys use them for shipping to Canada....big hassle...duties / taxes / delays?

summitracing.com has it for $55 us money here is the link it is every gasket youll need http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-KS2110/

[NMike]

if you are close to the boarder, there are several places in the states that will accept a package for you (small fee). then pickup when you have some time.

if they do ship to canada, use  USPS only!!!!

NEVER EVER USE UPS OR FED-eX

they will do you good on their brokerage charges, Canada Post will ding you $5 and taxes only.

[super_dave]

Yeah UPS has screwed me in the past.  I ordered a bunch of stuff from 440 Source, and they do use USPS....so hoping for a good experience

Thanks for the input!

[super_dave]

Ok, little update and question.  Got motor stripped down, painted tranny, oil pan and bunch other pieces.  Timing chain has 1/4" deflection per side, see pics, does this need to be replaced?

Also the Holley carb, trying to figure out exactly what it is....only part number I can find is 6R3923B....any ideas?

[super_dave]

And bit of progress...really enjoying this!

[ChgrSteve67]

I would replace it.

Easier and cheeper to do it now then later.

[super_dave]

Ok, now that I'm into it, seriously thinking about swapping out the cam on this thing....as you can see I'm gaining confidence.  Looking for suggestions on a cam.....??  I have no idea.  Second thing I would like to ask is if I should just go ahead and put a new carb on this thing.  I was thinking I would send the Holley one out to get cleaned up, but I think it's probably as old as the motor.  If I have to spend $145.00 to clean up the old one, should I not just put on a new one with electric choke?  Also, what cfm rating would you guys recommend...appreciatte the advice guys, thanks.

[super_dave]

OK, got the new timing chain, will install tonight.  All the 440 source stuff came in also, no problems there...I was impressed with shipping speed and costs, pretty reasonable.  Ordered that big block Mopars book, have not recieved it yet though... 

Torque new timing chain gear to.....ft/lbs?
125 ft/lbs on balancer
70 ft/lbs on head bolts
rocker arm bolts to........ft/lbs?

Loctite on any bolts for following reassembly:
timing chain and cover, water pump, fuel pump, starter, oil pump, heads, valve covers, intake, valley pan....

Thanks guys, appreciatte it! 

[greenpigs]

I would not Loctite any of the things you listed except maybe on the cam bolts. I think the shafts are 25 ft\lbs. Grab yourself a factory service manual for whatever year Charger you have. They sell them on disk for about $40 on Ebay and you can print off what you need.

[firefighter3931]

Good work Dave ! 

See if you can get a piston to deck measurement so we can figure out how much compression you have. That will help determine cam selection should you decide to swap something else in. 

I would replace the timing chain & Gears. The Comp "magnum" double roller set is cheap and very good quality. 

Cam bolt is 30 ftlbs with red loctite. Heads are 75 ftlbs in 3 stages ; 30/55/75 with oil on the threads. Rocker shafts are 25 ftlbs.


Ron

[super_dave]

Excellent Ron, thanks for the input.  Replaced the timing chain and gears yesterday already, torqued to 35 ft/lbs....no loctite though, and timing cover already installed...oops.  I'll pull the cover off and re-install with the loctite.  

[nvrbdn]

hey dave,lookin great. love the clean up job with the matching fan blade to body color. keep the pic's coming. gona look great when done. 1st build is going great.

[super_dave]

hey dave,lookin great. love the clean up job with the matching fan blade to body color. keep the pic's coming. gona look great when done. 1st build is going great.

Thanks a ton, feel like I'm a young guy again working on my 75 Olds 442 25 years ago, except not laying on the driveway anymore!  Nice to have a spot to monkey around!

Also, looks like I'm going to have to make my own oil pump to block gasket.  The one that came with the felpro kit is wrong, and apparantly they are hard to find on there own.  No biggie though.

Ordered ANOTHER timing cover gasket set, why are there 7 pieces in this set???   Two pieces look like a thermostat gasket, two small ones with two holes, going on the bottom to oil pan connection I'm guessing, anyway, going to order a shop manula, will hold many answers, thanks.

[super_dave]

I just realized from reading other posts that my motor did not have a windage tray when I pulled it apart....I just dropped the oil pan, and thats all that was there, is that alright?

[FLG]

Yes windage tray isn't a must on non high performance engines.

[oldcarnut]

I just ordered Waynes dvd.  Here's a link to it if your interested.  Folks here say its good.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,62311.0.html

[super_dave]

I just ordered Waynes dvd.  Here's a link to it if your interested.  Folks here say its good.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,62311.0.html

Yes I bought it months ago, good presentation, pretty much too advanced for me at this time.

[greenpigs]

Ordered ANOTHER timing cover gasket set, why are there 7 pieces in this set???   Two pieces look like a thermostat gasket, two small ones with two holes, going on the bottom to oil pan connection I'm guessing, anyway, going to order a shop manula, will hold many answers, thanks.[/quo

Those extra gaskets are for the water pump housing.

[super_dave]

OK, not blue anymore......going into the car real soon. 

[FLG]

Lookin good dave!

Where'd ya get the wp housing from? I hope its not 440 source.

[super_dave]

Lookin good dave!

Where'd ya get the wp housing from? I hope its not 440 source.

Yup, did get it from 440 source......problems with them?

[FLG]

Oh yeah, unless they changed the design.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html

[super_dave]

Oh yeah, unless they changed the design.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html

Sorry FLG, only the top piece is from 440source, the water pump and housing is stock...it's just the pice that connects the rad hose...c/w with new thermostat...

Only thing I need to figure now is how to torque that 1.25" balancer bolt to 125 lbs....don't want to clamp anything on the balancer...need an idea.

[BigBlockSam]

  lokkin good

[Roger 68 charger]

Are you running vacuum advance on your distributor?

[super_dave]

Are you running vacuum advance on your distributor?

I upgraded to an MSD ignition and got the distributor from 440Source....Ron tells me I need a coil still.. but do not have a clue about the vacuum advance....just too new to this stuff.  Do I need it? 

[BigBlockSam]

Msd will wake that motor right up .

[greenpigs]

I upgraded to an MSD ignition and got the distributor from 440Source....Ron tells me I need a coil still..  but do not have a clue about the vacuum advance....just too new to this stuff.  Do I need it? 

Yes, for a street car you will benifit from a vac advance. Make sure you hook up the vacuum advance to a ported source on the carb.

[mhinders]

[quote ]
I upgraded to an MSD ignition and got the distributor from 440Source....Ron tells me I need a coil still.. but do not have a clue about the vacuum advance....just too new to this stuff.  Do I need it? 
[/quote]

If you don't have it, don't worry...I can't use the vac advance with my street-hotted 383...I have set the initial timing to 24 degrees, limited the mechanical advance in the distributor to 12 degrees, adding up to a total ignition advance of 36 degrees.
Engine runs beautifully...
Cheers,
Martin

[super_dave]

Ok, been trying to make a decision on whether or not to have the original carb rebuilt, or replace it with a Holley 750......

Stock 72 440....TTi headers, MSD ignition....should I just run stock carb ($150.00 overhaul) or upgrade to a Holley...650 or 750 

Some good advice would be appreciatted, thanks.

[chargerman67]

Ok, been trying to make a decision on whether or not to have the original carb rebuilt, or replace it with a Holley 750......

Stock 72 440....TTi headers, MSD ignition....should I just run stock carb ($150.00 overhaul) or upgrade to a Holley...650 or 750 

Some good advice would be appreciatted, thanks.

What kind of Holley is it? I just rebuilt mine about 6 months ago. It was cake. And it was the first one I ever did. I think if you got the the time it would be worth you rebuilding yourself.

[tan top]

OK, not blue anymore......going into the car real soon. 

looks good , nice job 

[super_dave]

Ok, been trying to make a decision on whether or not to have the original carb rebuilt, or replace it with a Holley 750......

Stock 72 440....TTi headers, MSD ignition....should I just run stock carb ($150.00 overhaul) or upgrade to a Holley...650 or 750 

Some good advice would be appreciatted, thanks.

What kind of Holley is it? I just rebuilt mine about 6 months ago. It was cake. And it was the first one I ever did. I think if you got the the time it would be worth you rebuilding yourself.

Just the stock carb....not sure on the model number right now.  Will consider doing myself maybe....

OK, not blue anymore......going into the car real soon. 

looks good , nice job 

Thanks....

[Wicked72]

Man your engine looks slick!  

[Al]

  looking good man

[rockosocko]

Yes, I know it's 11yrs old, and Dave's last post was in '15. Just wanted to know if anyone knows how it ran?