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Author Topic: Update: DONE ; GearVendor installation in my 1969 Charger Daytona..  (Read 11745 times)
hemi68charger
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« on: December 31, 2010, 10:19:49 AM »

Hey gang..
As most of you know, I chose the GearVendor option for an overdrive system for my Daytona. Well, I began the installation process and would like to document my experiences.

Vehicle: 1969 Charger Daytona
Tranny: 727 Torqueflite
Differential: 9.75 Dana (4.10)

1. Here's the basic/components I received with the kit



1. Raise/secure vehicle and remove driveshaft




2. Position jack/support under transmission. I used the tranny pan with a scissor jack with a block of wood



3. Remove tranny rubber insulator and crossmember ( I didn't remove insulator from crossmember)



4. Place drain pan under tranny and remove inspection plate that covers tranny housing snap-ring



5. Disconnect/remove trannyspeedo gear assembly from tailshaft housing



6. Remove six bolts securing tailhousing to transmission



7. Use snap-ring pliers to spread snap-ring while pulling tailshaft housing off.



8. Clean gasket surface on tranny



9. Remove original lock pawl assembly out of original tailshaft housing and install into new GV tailshaft housing. Also remove the snap-ring and install it into the new GV unit.





10. Install GV tailshaft housing onto tranny tailshaft. I utilized two exhaust manifold studs to hold the new gasket in place to help with the GV tailshaft housing installation. Worked out great. Once a couple of the original bolts are installed, you can remove the studs.




11. On my Daytona, there was a TTI exhaust system. The center h-pipe clamp was positioned with the nuts towards the back. This created a forward movement obstruction for the tailshaft housing. Simple solution was to reverse the clamp.





12. Install snap-ring cover gasket, cover and crossmember. Also, in my case with a center console, install the shifter rod bracket.




13. Verify the coupler is seated fully forward touching the tailshaft. Lightly grease the outside of the coupler, bushing, seal then slip the coupler back into the tailshaft housing. There shouldn't be any binding. The coupler is positioned in the housing for shipping purposes. Adjust the end play. I accomplished this by utilizing a straight edge, slipped two of the numerous supplied shims between the coupler and straight edge and then taking a measurement. I ended up with .013 clearance. The tech at GearVendor told me this was a proper technique and have a tolerance between 0 - 0.15. Do not place grease in the coupler to hold shims when reinstalling. This will compromise the end play reading. The shims are to be installed into the coupler on the tailshaft side, not the overdrive unit side.



14. Unfortunately, the clearance issue that "supposedly" was fixed, isn't. The speedo assembly typically was the culprit, but this, for me, was an issue of the overdrive housing. So, yes, I "made" room. I took my pickle fork since it has a solid round handle and use it with a sledgehammer to curve the floor pan inwards. It worked out great I do have to say. It made a nice smooth modification. The white grease pencil markings are the areas that were touched by the overdrive unit. I also ground down the two areas of the overdrive unit that touched the floorpan. I basically rounded down the peaks of the unit.






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Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
Houston Mopar Club Connection
hemi68charger
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2010, 10:20:29 AM »

15. Install overdrive gasket with lettering facing tailshaft housing.



16. Slide yoke onto shaft of overdrive unit and then position unit onto housing.







17. Secure overdrive unit with the eight 1/4 20-inch locknuts/washers

18. Install supplied speedometer cable adaptor.



19. Install signal generator to cable adaptor then vehicle's original speedometer cable to signal generator.



20. I used a cable loop to secure the speedo-adpator and solenoid harness. Had to do this to keep wires away from h-pipe.



21. Driveshaft modification. Based on the dimensions, I had to shorten my driveshaft 14". I used on of my spare driveshafts, but unfortunately, the inner diameter (ID) of the driveshaft won't facilitate the installation/welding of the foreard yoke. This yoke was to be a match for the GV supplied driveshaft tranny yoke. So, I had to have the driveshaft service company make one from scratch. This will probably be the case for most Mopar driveshaft modifications. I got new u-joints and the assembly high-speed balanced. Brought it home, but unfortunately, the dang thing was about an 1" too long !!!! So, I'll have to take it back Monday.. Bummer, I was hoping to have it installed this weekend. I inquired about the maximum driveshaft angle being that shortening the driveshaft alters the operating angle. He emphasized that 11 degrees from level ground is the max.

21a. original driveshaft measurement. I used a spare 727 I had for the measurements with my original driveshaft. Length to centerline of u-joint (21.5")




21b. GV complete unit (35.5")




21c. At the shop




21d. About an inch too long..  Cry



22. I mounted the electronics behind the kick panel. It fit rather nicely to be honest.



23. I decided I didn't want to permanently mount the selector switch and status light. I made a plate and attached it to the vent box under the dash. That way, the velco adhesive wouldn't be on the vent box. From what I gather, most driving will be in the "auto" mode, so there will not be a need to change the selection switch numerous times.



24. Here's the kickpanel back on. Would never know the electronic autodrive control box is back there. Also, the wire you see is the foot switch. Instead of mounting it on the floor, I'm going to place a toggle switch inconspicuously under the dash.



What I have to do now is fill up the overdrive unit with Dexron II ATF. Never use synthetic or additives. After that, replace the exhaust flange-to-manifold gaskets and get the driveshaft fixed.. After which, test drive time..........

Update: Jan.07, 2011

25. OK, got the driveshaft back from the shop. The dimension they needed was 40" from GV overdrive unit output seal to forward most portion of the yoke going into the differential.



26. Next is filling up the GV unit with Gear Lube. Here is the access/fill hole.
  



27. Here I'm finishing up with the fluid.
  Edit: GV's update on fluid is either GM# 12346190, or Mopar #0487-4459, I will update the picture........  I used the Mopar brand. It is Gear Lube, clear



28. Pump works pretty good



I'll continue this later on this weekend, I have Guard Duty this weekend, so won't be able to mess around with it much...


Of course, I tagged and stowed all original parts.

Hope this helps anyone in the future with a GV install.


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Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
Houston Mopar Club Connection
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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2010, 11:05:56 AM »

Very nice.   But now im confused, thought the daytona was on the way out the door? shruggy
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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2010, 11:06:21 AM »

You're going to love the unit as it will make the Daytona much more enjoyable to drive. Just make sure to listen for any vibration that comes as a result of the shortened drive shaft/change in pinion angle as you may have to make some adjustments. Otherwise enjoy it! I've got 45,000 hard miles on my unit and have never had an ounce of trouble with it.
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2010, 11:16:04 AM »

Very nice.   But now im confused, thought the daytona was on the way out the door? shruggy

Over the last year, I've had many inquiries about the car, but nothing has panned out. I actually had two calls Wed. morning when I began the whole project. My mindset is "it's not going anywhere", so then, I'll make the changes I so desire. Just as luck would have it, it'll probably get a serious inquiry when this is all done. If so, such is life. In the meantime, I'll continue having fun with the installation (driveshaft snafu included) and press forward.

You're going to love the unit as it will make the Daytona much more enjoyable to drive. Just make sure to listen for any vibration that comes as a result of the shortened drive shaft/change in pinion angle as you may have to make some adjustments. Otherwise enjoy it! I've got 45,000 hard miles on my unit and have never had an ounce of trouble with it.

Hey Mike. I'm hoping so.... I'm going to make sure I'm not close to the 11 degree maximum.... I made sure that driveshaft shop balanced the shaft on a high-speed balancer instead of the low-speed some shops use......

Troy
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Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
Houston Mopar Club Connection
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« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2010, 11:27:16 AM »

that's gonna make the car so much more drivable, looks heavy duty too .  cheers

i'm still willing to deal with you for the car if you want . i'll have to sweeten the pot up now that you put the overdrive in  .  icon_smile_big
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2010, 03:11:05 PM »

I bought a gvo for the superbird earlier this year. I just haven't had the time to install it. Maybe this will give me some much needed inspiration. I've been busy getting the new dragster ready to go racing and haven't accomplished any of the stuff that I had planned for the bird.
I also bought the pistol grips with the built in button for the gvo. Looks kind of cool.
Look forward to hearing how your Daytona drives on the highway at speed.
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2011, 08:23:04 AM »

Troy you definetly get an A+ for documenting your project!

Have fun.........cruising!
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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2011, 08:30:08 AM »

good bit of mechanical parts swapping going on  yesnod  good lot of step by step pictures &  info Troy  thanks for posting  cheers

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hemi68charger
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2011, 07:13:19 PM »

Took the driveshaft back today to get it shortened. They asked for the measurements from the opening of the output shaft area/seal of the GV overdrive unit to the front face of the input yoke to the Dana. It measures 40". So, I'm taking that this will be the over all length with the extra needed coming from the distance of the u-joint as it slides into the rear Dana yoke, which will be about an inch. That would leave plenty of meat of the forward yoke in the output shaft hole of the GV unit and enough to slide back and forth as needed under driving conditions.....
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Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
Houston Mopar Club Connection
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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2011, 12:29:24 AM »

Nice work !!! How much is that Kit ?
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2011, 05:33:13 AM »

Took the driveshaft back today to get it shortened. They asked for the measurements from the opening of the output shaft area/seal of the GV overdrive unit to the front face of the input yoke to the Dana. It measures 40". So, I'm taking that this will be the over all length with the extra needed coming from the distance of the u-joint as it slides into the rear Dana yoke, which will be about an inch. That would leave plenty of meat of the forward yoke in the output shaft hole of the GV unit and enough to slide back and forth as needed under driving conditions.....





Looks good Troy, glad to see you upgrading the Daytona,....I hope you took your measurements with the rear axle under compression (supporting the car's weight) as the pinion rotates slightly affecting the length/distance between the tranny and pinion flange


Mike



PS I hope your next upgrade is to eliminate the point type ignition, the Petronix Ignitor II set-up is pretty foolproof and reliable set-up when installed correctly
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2011, 09:16:19 AM »

PS I hope your next upgrade is to eliminate the point type ignition, the Petronix Ignitor II set-up is pretty foolproof and reliable set-up when installed correctly

Agreed !

I put them in my Daytona a while ago and love it.  Be sure to eliminate the ballast resistor from the circuit...hint - you can replace the resistor's guts with a solid wire for a stock look.
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2011, 09:20:52 AM »

PS I hope your next upgrade is to eliminate the point type ignition, the Petronix Ignitor II set-up is pretty foolproof and reliable set-up when installed correctly

Agreed !

I put them in my Daytona a while ago and love it.  Be sure to eliminate the ballast resistor from the circuit...hint - you can replace the resistor's guts with a solid wire for a stock look.

This is only done if utilizing the Pertronix Flame Thrower coil, IIRC. If you're using an OEM coil, you need to retain the ballast resistor functionality? Otherwise, like you mentioned, the ole' straight-wire-in-the-back trick. Any place for a good discounted pair (Pertronix kit + Flame Thrower coil)?
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Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
Houston Mopar Club Connection
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2011, 11:43:38 AM »

You are correct and I did use the coil also.

I used their black plug wires too for good measure.

I think I found the best price @ Summit ~ 2 years ago.
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2011, 11:58:14 AM »

You are correct and I did use the coil also.

I used their black plug wires too for good measure.

I think I found the best price @ Summit ~ 2 years ago.

Hey Dave..
The black wire out of the distributor goes to the negative post of the coil obviously, but where does the red one go to? The positive side? Or, is it the positive side if you use their coil and bypass the ballast? Did one uses the OEM coil/ballast, where does the red wire go to?
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Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
Houston Mopar Club Connection
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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2011, 05:55:44 PM »

You are correct and I did use the coil also.

I used their black plug wires too for good measure.

I think I found the best price @ Summit ~ 2 years ago.

Hey Dave..
The black wire out of the distributor goes to the negative post of the coil obviously, but where does the red one go to? The positive side? Or, is it the positive side if you use their coil and bypass the ballast? Did one uses the OEM coil/ballast, where does the red wire go to?


Troy the red wire goes to the + side of the coil on the Petronix set-up,....best advice I can give you is to purchase a single point Chrysler REBUILT distributor from local parts store, about $40-$60, you only need to remove the points and condensor, the Ignitior II screws on to the stock breaker plate, you set the gap of the HallCell with ONLY the plastic feeler gauge supplied, IIRC.030 gap,....you remove the factory lead, and replace with the new leads red and black, they go to the coil, you must mahe sure the ignition lead from your harness (usually BLUE wire) goes to the + side of the coil,....definitely get rid of the ballast as the system is now set-up for 12 volts to the HallCell,..the factory ballast can still be retained for "looks", just solder in a heavy 10 gauge wire behind the porcelin backing, or just tie the 2 ballast terminals together using a double sided spade connector, and tape it up in the harness leaving the factory termial ends intact, your choice,....run the FlameThrower II coil, they have a nice black epoxy filled coil, looks stock, no oil filled needed,...the Flame thrower coils are 3 ohm and 100 turn ratio rated, were as the "factory" coil is 17 ohms and only 70 turn ratios, you'll benefit grearty using the Flamethrower II coil vs stock,...Petronix also has a BBlk black wire set for about $60, well woth it, the recommended Petronix Ignitor II conversion to use is PN# PNX 91381A if purchasing from Summit Racing, about $90, the coil is about $30....Summit is the best price I've found


Some Notes, the Petronix set-up rephases the timing if you do an in car install, anywhere from 5-15 degrees retarded/advanced, so the car may not start at first, check timing, DO NOT REMOVE the green tape from the HallCell magnet, use a new copper terminal dist cap of your choice, the resto Mopar cap works well, NEVER run soild core sparkplug wires as they will destroy the HallCell, and if you need to troubleshoot the cars electrical system for some reason, NEVER leave the key in ignition mode without the engine running for more than 20-30 seconds at a time, as it will destroy the HallCell,....if you take the time to properly install a Petronix, you'll be rewarded with faster start-ups, no ignition break-up in the 5000-6000 RPM range, no problems with hot starts either, you'll no longer have carbon tracking build up in the dist cap,....and you can run just about any plug you choose, I've found that the Petronix set-ups in my cars have no problem with the Bosch Platnium single and multi tip plugs, you can't even fire, let alone run these plugs on a Chrysler point or MP electronic set-up with out fouling them, with the Petronix they are perhaps the best plug I've found that lasts with the system, the Petronix is one of those ignition upgrades that you can "hear and feel" in the car/seat of the pants driving,....but I do recommend strongly that you start with a fresh dist, as any side play in a worn/tired bushing will shorten the life of the HallCell,..


Mike
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2011, 07:01:36 PM »

...

Mike

Good information Mike, I appreciate it. I actually found an original '69 440 auto distributor I was going to do the conversion with. Is there a way to check by "feel" if the bushing is ok? I would love to utilize this distributor housing. Otherwise, I was going to go down tomorrow actually and get a new reman 440 single-point distributor. Is there any expected "lifetime" for these units? From my readings today on the subject, it seems really straight forward.

On a side note related to another thread, I did try to fire up the C500 today, but no-go. I did pull the distributor out of the Daytona, one that I know works fine and I do now get spark out of the coil wire while cranking. But, she doesn't want to fire up. I do believe the spark is a little weak though. It may be a function of the coil I have in it. I may have to invest in two units for both cars, especially if the benefit is of the level you mention.

Troy
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Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
Houston Mopar Club Connection
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2011, 10:06:52 PM »

...

Mike

Good information Mike, I appreciate it. I actually found an original '69 440 auto distributor I was going to do the conversion with. Is there a way to check by "feel" if the bushing is ok? I would love to utilize this distributor housing. Otherwise, I was going to go down tomorrow actually and get a new reman 440 single-point distributor. Is there any expected "lifetime" for these units? From my readings today on the subject, it seems really straight forward.

On a side note related to another thread, I did try to fire up the C500 today, but no-go. I did pull the distributor out of the Daytona, one that I know works fine and I do now get spark out of the coil wire while cranking. But, she doesn't want to fire up. I do believe the spark is a little weak though. It may be a function of the coil I have in it. I may have to invest in two units for both cars, especially if the benefit is of the level you mention.

Troy





Hey Troy,.......As far as a "lifetime" of the HallCell unit, there's basically no moving parts other than the rotating pickup magnet, no parts are incontact with one another, the units rely on a magnetic flux to control the timing of the spark and it's delivery, as long as the electical parameters are stable, and the mechanics that support (physically) the Hallcell are within tolerance,.....the life of the unit is indeed quite long,...I have a Petronix system that I've installed on a Clark ForkTruck about 20 years ago, I've never had to touch it ever again as far as a tune up or repair, granted it's a 4 cylinder, the oldest unit I've installed on a car is perhaps now 15 yrs old, with only a few cap and rotor plug changes over the years (probally about every 4-5 yrs).....I even converted a friends Chrysler Lean-Burn ignition system over to a Petronix about 3 yrs ago, which now has become his daily driver, before the car spent most of it's time in the garage due to ignition woes.......


So you could rebush the dist case you want to use, the rotor/dist shaft should turn freely with very little drag,  near zero side to side play should be exhibited, if you have a dial indicator you could set it up to read shaft side deflection in it's bore, .005 being allowable, no more than.010

Nice thing about the Petronix is it fits under the stock cap, you only have 1 extra wire coming off the dist, you don't have to alter any wiring, everything can be returned to stock in minutes....


As far as your ignition woes in the 500, have you confirmed voltage to the ignition lead going to the coil, remove the (usually blue) wire from the coil, using a test meter, and and the meters  ground confirm 12 volts from the wire with the ignition key going thru start and run mode positions, (bypass the ballast resistor when testing, just join the 2 terminal ends)...start at the begining, and the basics,.....from your statement above sounds (initially) like a bad ballast resistor

Mike
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2011, 09:35:15 PM »

I've updated steps 25 - 28 in up top.........   Getting closer.........
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Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
Houston Mopar Club Connection
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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2011, 10:39:23 PM »

Hey Troy.

I didn't know you were doing the GV conversion.  There were a few snafus' I ran into but it sounds like GV corrected them?  You'll love the unit.  Like I tell everyone who gets it, the only problem you'll have is finding buddys' who can cruise as fast as you.

If I had any idea where it was I'd give ya' a new Pertronix set up.  Many years ago I won it at the very 1st DC.com meet.  Jesse gave it away.  I'll go out in the garage tomorrow & if it's not in the few Rubbermaid tubs out there it means it's up in the attic & I'll have no idea where.  I'll try though.
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« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2011, 05:04:23 AM »

Hey Troy.

I didn't know you were doing the GV conversion.  There were a few snafus' I ran into but it sounds like GV corrected them?  You'll love the unit.  Like I tell everyone who gets it, the only problem you'll have is finding buddys' who can cruise as fast as you.

If I had any idea where it was I'd give ya' a new Pertronix set up.  Many years ago I won it at the very 1st DC.com meet.  Jesse gave it away.  I'll go out in the garage tomorrow & if it's not in the few Rubbermaid tubs out there it means it's up in the attic & I'll have no idea where.  I'll try though.

Mike, that would be awesome,, thanks !!!!!   2thumbs
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Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
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« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2011, 07:48:35 PM »

found it.
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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2011, 09:38:44 PM »

Wow... What a difference....... I drove the Daytona this afternoon making sure all the "t's were crossed and "i's" dotted. Here are two videos of the cruise. Sorry about the quality and only being inside, but can't take outside videos when one's driving..... The unit has done everything as advertised. Engaged and disengaged right on queue. Seemed to drive smooth without any differential adjustment to any driveline angles. So far, quite pleased. I'll put a few more miles on her then check the gearlube and all wires and speedo-cable for any clearance issues...

Down the street by the house....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2OStFjZazc

Down the feeder road......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yPGInia5Lw
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Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
Houston Mopar Club Connection
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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2011, 10:29:05 PM »

 Congats on a successful mission Troy, enjoy.

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