Woo-Hoo, Chevy sells 281 Volts in February!!!!

[Richard Cranium]

10 hours of charging nets you a range of 35 miles. Proof positive that the government should stay the hell out of the car business.  

GM sells just 281 Chevy Volts in February, Nissan only moves 67 Leafs *UPDATE — Autoblog Green

Edit: I hear that they cost 40 grand to make and the sell them for $41K, which leaves a $1K profit margin.

[defiance]

.... and has thousands of people lined up preordered.  Nissan and Chevy are both selling cars 6+ MONTHS in advance and delivering them in small handfuls to keep a close eye out for any first-run issues... and yet the press wants to print B.S. like this. 

I'm somewhere around 18,000th in line for my leaf.  I'm expecting delivery in August currently.  Yet I still hear crap like "only 200 sold, obviously nobody wants them!"  Damn, I wish!

[Richard Cranium]

Your response made me look up pre-orders for Volts and this was the first link that I found. The responses are interesting.


http://forums.motortrend.com/70/7846150/the-general-forum/chevy-volt-preorders-hits-50-000/index.html

[Brock Samson]

  Why wouldn't you post this in the Chevy Volt thread in car section?.. 

[defiance]

I don't know how the volt reservation system works, but I had to put up money for the leaf.  You can say they're just "inquiries" if you want, but when you've got 20,000 people willing to put up $100 to wait for over a year for the *option* to buy a car, you can't really say there's no demand.

[Richard Cranium]

I don't know how the volt reservation system works, but I had to put up money for the leaf.  You can say they're just "inquiries" if you want, but when you've got 20,000 people willing to put up $100 to wait for over a year for the *option* to buy a car, you can't really say there's no demand.

Just as "turbo" was the big buzz in the late 80's, "green" is the in thing today and the green business is thriving. It costs a lot of money to be green and when you look at what goes into a battery powered car, the carbon footprint is much worse than a gas or diesel powered vehicle.

If economy is one's main concern, buying a diesel Jetta or Golf which gets around 40-45 mpg (cruising range of about 500 miles) with a price tag of $20-23K makes the Volt's 35 mile electric cruising range a joke.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the concept of an electric car is good, but battery technology is just not there at this time.

[defiance]

Well, the volt is going for a specific niche, and it fills that niche... eh, maybe not as well as it could.  The Leaf I think does a much better job.  First run, 8hr charge is 100mile range.  Second run (2012 model) increases the charger to a 6.6k kh/w, giving the same 100 mile range with a 4hr charge.  And at $25k, the cost differential with your comparison is made up in less than a year given an average user's 12,000 mile per year of driving.

The tech is there, the industry is just exploring what configuration people want.  Some people want to retain the efficiency of electric and still have nearly unlimited range, so Chevy made a valiant effort to address that with the volt.

The leaf approaches it differently, maximizing efficiency but sacrificing the unlimited range.  Truth is, it probably works better in most families, given that most families have 2 vehicles.  In my case we'll have an efficient gas car and an electric, so we'll still have the other car for longer trips (which, honestly, we just about don't make at all...  twice in the past year.  Probably would be more cost effective to rent a car, but I don't want to )

[mikesbbody]

"Just as "turbo" was the big buzz in the late 80's, "green" is the in thing today and the green business is thriving. It costs a lot of money to be green"

It Costs EVERYONE a lot of Money to be Green regardless of weather you believe it, or are "into it" or not 

[bull]

As usual it's a good concept that's being poorly executed. Regarding the niche, at this point the lion's share of this niche is a gimmick that's no more practical than some guy with small man's complex driving a jacked H2. It sends the opposite message but exposes the same underlying insecurities. But finally, those 120-pound hippies have a reason drop $40k on a car and therefore procure bragging rights over their Prius-driving buddies while they barbecue tofu burgers at the hemp festival and watch their wives braid each other's arm pit hair.

One thing to note, before the new Volt leaves the lot you have to be sure it's properly outfitted. Not with undercoating, a full tank of gas electricity and floor mats. No, no. Stickers! I'm not sure if Volts will come standard with the Obama '08 sticker like the Subaru Outbacks did but you gotta have a minimum of 5 stickers on the back of it that pompously proclaim how much better you are than the average dolphin-killing, gas-guzzling, plastic bag-toting, land-owning Joe. And at least one of the minimum 5 should say something about how you're saving the Earth by driving a "green" car. Here is an example of what you should strive for (to hell with the paint):

[Richard Cranium]

That nucklehead is either from Amherst, Brookline, or Cambridge.

[Ghoste]

I'm going to get a t-shirt for "earth day" that reads, "Proudly Destroying The Planet One Gallon Of Carbon Imbalanced Non Renewable Resource At A Time Since 1962".

[PocketThunder]

I'm going to get a t-shirt for "earth day" that reads, "Proudly Destroying The Planet One Gallon Of Carbon Imbalanced Non Renewable Resource At A Time Since 1962".

I know a guy that has a shirt that has trees and a lumberjack on the front and it reads "Earth First!"  then on the back it says, "we'll log the other planets later"... 

[RECHRGD]

But finally, those 120-pound hippies have a reason drop $40k on a car and therefore procure bragging rights over their Prius-driving buddies while they barbecue tofu burgers at the hemp festival and watch their wives braid each other's arm pit hair.

[/quote]

[defiance]

It's all good, why lat facts stand in the way of insults?  They're MUCH more fun! 

[Old Moparz]

Why wouldn't you post this in the Chevy Volt thread in car section?.. 

Probably for the same reason he doesn't use the obituary thread.  


As for electric cars, I would like to have one for local use, but I've had so many POS cordless drills over the years that it's left a bad taste with me for anything that's rechargeable.

[bull]

It's all good, why lat facts stand in the way of insults?  They're MUCH more fun! 

I wasn't targeting you if that's what you thought. But you are correct, insults are much more fun than facts.

[Richard Cranium]

Why wouldn't you post this in the Chevy Volt thread in car section?.. 

Probably for the same reason he doesn't use the obituary thread.  

I will when it's renamed the "won't be down for breakfast" thread.   

[chargerboy69]

If economy is one's main concern, buying a diesel Jetta or Golf which gets around 40-45 mpg (cruising range of about 500 miles) with a price tag of $20-23K makes the Volt's 35 mile electric cruising range a joke.

My buddy, who is also a member of this board, has a 99 Jetta TDI 5 spd.  He switched out the injectors and gets 60 mpg. The cost of the car was less than $5000.00. He also has a kit which filters out used cooking that he can run in the car when the price of diesel gets to high.  Of course the car smells like elephant ears when he does this. 

[Ghoste]

200 a month for the Volt works out about the same as the annual 20,000 that looks to be predicted for the Leaf.  It doesn't make much of a business case in the modern automotive world, hence my insistence that these things are really just about good press.

[defiance]

Quick update - been driving my leaf now for about 3 weeks.  I can charge to 80% and make my daily commute 3x if I want, but that's not really necessary since I just plug the charger in when I'm done in the evening.  8yr warranty on everything, so I've no worry about battery life.  At $26k or so, it's priced about $5k more than a similarly equipped versa, since there are a lot of upgrades included in the base model (and about the same as a similarly equipped altima, which is probably a better comparison since it's actually much roomier than a versa inside).  It's actually pretty fun to drive; it takes off pretty impressively, and acceleration is pretty good below 40 - though you can watch the efficiency gauge bottom out when you really punch it.  The center of gravity makes it handle pretty well even with the crappy LRR tires.  

So far I've driven 600 miles - for about $13.  

Incidentally, as far as the numbers sold go, the rate of production has steadily increased - May had 1142, and June is projected to pass 1500.  And of course, they're all still sold months before they're produced; that'll probably continue to be the case through all of 2011.  The new Smyrna,TN plant is projected to produce 2-3k per month when it comes online in 2012 (possibly 2013 due to some construction delays relating to the Tsunami) , putting the total production at up to 4k per month/48k cars per year.  

That's more than the Challenger sold in 2010.

[Ghoste]

Challenger or a Leaf?  Hmmm, no brainer for this car guy.

[defiance]

200 a month for the Volt works out about the same as the annual 20,000 that looks to be predicted for the Leaf.  It doesn't make much of a business case in the modern automotive world, hence my insistence that these things are really just about good press.

I was not comparing the vehicles, I was comparing the sales figures, in reference to your statement quoted above.  My point is, does the challenger not "make much of a business case in the modern automotive world.."?  If it does, your point is provably false

*edit* - just found the leaf June final sales figures: 1,708 - that's a pace of 20,000/year, and already puts it selling better than every hybrid except the prius (which is going between 4,000 and 6,000 per month right now).


Volt unfortunately is not doing as well, they maxed out at a bit over 500 in June.  Still selling as fast as they can make them, but seems like GM isn't pushing to get any real production going.  So you may be right in GMs case.

[Brass]

Quick update - been driving my leaf now for about 3 weeks.  I can charge to 80% and make my daily commute 3x if I want, but that's not really necessary since I just plug the charger in when I'm done in the evening.  8yr warranty on everything, so I've no worry about battery life.  At $26k or so, it's priced about $5k more than a similarly equipped versa, since there are a lot of upgrades included in the base model (and about the same as a similarly equipped altima, which is probably a better comparison since it's actually much roomier than a versa inside).  It's actually pretty fun to drive; it takes off pretty impressively, and acceleration is pretty good below 40 - though you can watch the efficiency gauge bottom out when you really punch it.  The center of gravity makes it handle pretty well even with the crappy LRR tires.  

So far I've driven 600 miles - for about $13.  

Incidentally, as far as the numbers sold go, the rate of production has steadily increased - May had 1142, and June is projected to pass 1500.  And of course, they're all still sold months before they're produced; that'll probably continue to be the case through all of 2011.  The new Smyrna,TN plant is projected to produce 2-3k per month when it comes online in 2012 (possibly 2013 due to some construction delays relating to the Tsunami) , putting the total production at up to 4k per month/48k cars per year.  

That's more than the Challenger sold in 2010.

[Brock Samson]

  Seen one leaf and two Volts here in oh so greener than thou... Bay Area so far, seems pretty low, but now that the Hybrids are being denied access to the car pool lanes (as of today) I expect that will increase pure electric sales. after all that would be for me a major selling point.

[Troy]

At $26k or so, it's priced about $5k more than a similarly equipped versa, since there are a lot of upgrades included in the base model (and about the same as a similarly equipped altima, which is probably a better comparison since it's actually much roomier than a versa inside).

So far I've driven 600 miles - for about $13. 

Did you install a charging dock? I'm assuming you have something as their site says it takes about 20 hours to get an 80% charge on 110v. If so, did you include that in the cost of the car? The Nissan web site says it's about $2,000 (50% of which may be eligible for a federal rebate). That would make it $7,000 more expensive than the Versa which, at today's gas prices (Ohio), is a bit more than 63,000 miles (average city/highway) before you'll break even on price. Of course, I get slightly lower mileage but my car was about $10,000 cheaper than what you paid which would move the break even point to just under 98,000 miles.

As I've mentioned before, it just won't work for me even if I really, really wanted one. According to the following, max range is 70 miles when driving on the highway in the summer. Best efficiency is at a constant 38 mph. I don't think I can drive 38. Ever!
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/range-disclaimer/index#/leaf-electric-car/range-disclaimer/index
I drive 28 miles each way which would be cutting it close - as long as I skipped lunch! My daily driver car also has to serve for any long trips (that aren't car shows) so I'd either need to rent or have a second car any way. If I lived closer to work or in the city the numbers would make more sense - but I hate the city so that's not happening. I will move at some point though. Lots of people do fit that category though.

I have to say the black looks a million times better than the blue!

Troy