dash, taillights and side marker lighting out.....RESOLVED.

[70charginglizard]

well I knew it was just a matter of time before this one hit. Lost all dash lighting in the charger today along with the radio and tic toc tac clock.

Gages are all fuction except for the clock but nothing has light and thefuse keeps blowing out on the fuse block on the instrument fuse location.

God I hate electrical issues on mopar. they are such a pain in the butt. I've been looking for a good excuse to purchase that real expensive dash wiring harness. Looks like I finally found one. What a pain though. Oh well....not much choice anymore now. Pull out that pocket book again.

Anyone know that year one discount code for this month. lol

[70charginglizard]

oh and just to be sure it was not the dimmer switch or headlight switch I disconnected those both and its still blowing out fuses at the instrument location on the fuse box. So I know its not related to those two items.

[nascarxx29]

Your dash light feed wire is orange at the Instrument panel cluster pins.The 3 amp fuse that supplys the dashlight.Is there power there at end where fuse clips in .The other end of the fuse connection is tan .Maybe try a alt power source into the tan wire and check for dash lights without the fuse.You can also checkout the connections of the roll dimmer switch .And be sure dash clusters screws are tight and providing a good ground

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1970/70ChargerB.JPG

[70charginglizard]

Your dash light feed wire is orange at the Instrument panel cluster pins.The 3 amp fuse that supplys the dashlight.Is there power there at end where fuse clips in .The other end of the fuse connection is tan .Maybe try a alt power source into the tan wire and check for dash lights without the fuse.You can also checkout the connections of the roll dimmer switch .And be sure dash clusters screws are tight and providing a good ground

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1970/70ChargerB.JPG

God I must be blind. The fuse that actually keeps blowing is this 20A location one (see attached)

It shows that location that keeps blowing out as the tail/stop light fuse location. Must have something going on in the tail light harness location. Wonder why its causing the instrument lighting not to fuction? The guages all work its just the instrument lighting that seems to be toast. I will check the tail lights tonight after work to see if there not working to and let you know what I find. thanks for the input NASCARXX29

[70charginglizard]

Yep. No tail lights or side marker lights. Something weirds goin on. Still dont understand why that would cause all the instrument lighting, the clock on the tic toc tach and the after market radio I have in the car not to work. I thought that stuff was on a seperate fuse lines? all the other fuse lines are fine. Its just that tail/stop light fuse.

[nascarxx29]

On the 20 amp fuse that blows .You can remove that fuse and use alt power source to either end of fuse holder and check results.One end of the fuse is power the other end is the device brake light turn signal etc .You will find out if its a direct short to ground on the power side

[70charginglizard]

On the 20 amp fuse that blows .You can remove that fuse and use alt power source to either end of fuse holder and check results.One end of the fuse is power the other end is the device brake light turn signal etc .You will find out if its a direct short to ground on the power side

I connected up alt power source to that 20 amp location shown above to both upper and lower positions seperately and tested both positions seperately and its definately the lower position putting something out. not sure which one that is (power or devise) but it's got one red wire coming off of it on the back of the fuse box so im assuming its power.

just fyi- The upper location (which doesnt seem to be having a problem) is the one with two wires (a red and a pink) coming off of it on the back of the fuse box. and again. the tester isnt lighting up from the upper position.

[nascarxx29]

Check with headlight switch in parking light or full on position.Where the dash lights get there power from.Check connections at roll dimmer switch

[70charginglizard]

Check with headlight switch in parking light or full on position.Where the dash lights get there power from.Check connections at roll dimmer switch

Yeah I had checked those connection earlier by completely disconnecting them one at a time and then checking to see if it would let me install a new fuse. Each time it still kept blowing the fuse out still. even with those items completely disconnected   I can try again this morning later with the alt power tester and let you know for sure.

Oh and yesterday I disconnected the entire tail light harness from the driver side connection to the main dash harness just to be sure it wasnt a short from the tail light harness someplace and with it disconnected it still blows that fuse.

Here is a list of the things currectly not functioning.

1. The Radio. (couldnt find any obvious shorts on any of it's wiring), the clock on the tic toc tac (again...couldnt find any obvious shorts there either tach still works. just the clock is dead) 2. All the instrument lighting except for the emergency brake indicator light. (That emergency brake light indicator actually turns on when emergency brake is applied unlike anything else on the dash), 3. all side markers and parking lights (non of these are working yet all connections to them seems to be normal)  no obvious shorts at the light connection areas) and  lastly 4. the tail lights ( neither the parking position on the tail lights nor when you applied the brakes will light them up anymore)   thats about it in a nutshell.  

Headlights are working though. (different fuse location obviously)

Keep in mind with all that the only fuse blowing out is that 2nd one indicated above. all others are fuse locations are fine

[charger Downunder]

Its not shorting out in the steering column area i would try disconnecting one of the flat column connectors especially the one that runs up to the turn signal switch.

[70charginglizard]

Its not shorting out in the steering column area i would try disconnecting one of the flat column connectors especially the one that runs up to the turn signal switch.

Disconnected both flat column connectors completely. Still blowing the fuse

[Charger-Bodie]

Sometimes a blown bulb can do this if the broken filement falls to ground inside the bulb. I would start with taking out each bulb one at a time and inspect the filement. If that doesnt do it remove each dash light bulb one at a time. I had one of the plastic twist in sockets that if you turned if too far it would ground out and fry the fuse.

[b5blue]

Look at the fuse block bottom tab for "inst. lt.", it's rusty. (The one all the way to the left in your pic.) Sand the rust off and recheck. Check the brake light switch and white wire to see if it came off and is grounding out. I think you have 2 separate problems. 

[charger Downunder]

Interesting, Prior to this happening no one has asked but i will what have you touched replaced or fiddled with on the car.
The wires on the back of the fuse box check and see if they are shorting out on the body.

[70charginglizard]

Interesting, Prior to this happening no one has asked but i will what have you touched replaced or fiddled with on the car.
The wires on the back of the fuse box check and see if they are shorting out on the body.

Nothing really. I did put some new leaf springs and rear shocks in a few weeks ago but didnt touch anything close to wiring when I did that. Prior to that it was working fine. Its just so odd.

"The wires on the back of the fuse box check and see if they are shorting out on the body" ....   None that I can physical see. The one wire that seems to be the problem location is the red wire on that 20 amp location and it comes off the fuse box and goes directly into the taped up harness. Hard to tell where it goes from there. I'm assuming the battery.

[70charginglizard]

Look at the fuse block bottom tab for "inst. lt.", it's rusty. (The one all the way to the left in your pic.) Sand the rust off and recheck. Check the brake light switch and white wire to see if it came off and is grounding out. I think you have 2 separate problems.  

Sorry. that wasnt a picture of my fuse box. that was a picture I swiped off the net just to clearly show what fuse location I was having problems on.

this is a picture of mine:




Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Hopefully soon I will have a brand new one in my hand ready to replace this old crap. But it sure would be nice to be able to find the location causing issue with this one before I do that.

[70charginglizard]

and heres the jumbled mess in the back of it. Sorry for the quality of the picture. My camera sucks on close ups



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[70charginglizard]

Sometimes a blown bulb can do this if the broken filement falls to ground inside the bulb. I would start with taking out each bulb one at a time and inspect the filement. If that doesnt do it remove each dash light bulb one at a time. I had one of the plastic twist in sockets that if you turned if too far it would ground out and fry the fuse.

OK I'll take on that task tomorrow. Sounds like fun. not. 

[charger Downunder]

Take your glove box out look through and turn on the windscreen wipers and see if the internal wiper arm has been rubbing on the wire harness anywhere.

[nascarxx29]

Has the glove box light maplight and cigar lighter wiring been looked over .As I recall those wires are pink and red.As the wires that would be attached to that particular fuse  .I remember trying to change the glove box bulb and popping the fuse .

[70charginglizard]

Map light and glove box light is working. Cigar lighter is not. I'll take a closer examination of that as well today.

Thanks

[70charginglizard]

Keep in mine everyone I believe its the lower fuse connection point (power-red line only) putting out constant power to the fuse cucuit.
Not the upper one (devise-red and pink)



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Curious....do you guys have that obnoxious pink piggyback thing going on that i do on that circuit just next to my problem one? I always wondered why that one has such an obnoxious stackup there???   I really hate the dash wiring set up on this car of mine. Its obviously been screwed with over the years.  I really cant wait to get my new year one harness and clean some of this crap up thats going on underneath there.  

[nascarxx29]

Have you tried a 12 volt jumper wire into the device side from a alternate power source.To check results.The original fused 12 volt power source maybe you problem that your by passing as a test.The device side will not have power coming out with no fuse

[nascarxx29]

A jumper wire is basically a testlight with no light .Its a straight wire from end to end.You suspect the original power source going to that particular fuse.So your bypassing it using another source of 12 volts .12 volts will not shock you .With fuse removed power up both ends of fuse holder of the particular fuse that blows.The devise end should light up whats not working .If you power up other end of fuse the 12 volt power.And get a spark .Thats a indication of a dead short= postive to ground.And needs further investigation.I did my own electrical work for years no diagrams and just a testlight.And done about 100 cars since then .Wiring is easy dont think about the whole harness take one wire at a time .Like your taking a drive from here to there.And starting from home the battery and follow it. And 12 volt power to device with fuse in the middle is a basic circuit

[70charginglizard]

got you. I connected a straight jumper wire from the battery to the device side of the 20amp upper cuicut location and all im getting is a spark. Dash lights are not turning on.

Interestingly enough the clock started working on the tic toc tac and the cigar light marker lights and tail lights all started working.  But the instrument lights still dont. Must be a short someplace on the instrumentaion someplace

Not power side.

Now the only question is where. Could be just bout anything up there. lol

Checked the turn signal bulbs and no bulb filiment burnout there either.


frustrated and sore now.

[nascarxx29]

For the dashlights you could remove the 3 amp fuse and do the jumper wire test there aswell and check results. This may help you a color coded wiring diagram.There might be even one online somewere
http://www.classiccarwiring.com/

[nascarxx29]

So are you saying things that were not working before.  The jumper wire test restored all but the dashlights.                One of the cars I chased electrical gremlins from

[67tbird]

I am having exactly the same problem and have started wondering if my dash voltage limiter isn't bad or shorting. you would think if it was the gauges would max, just like when you ground gas tank sender, I'll be following your thread also! Dave   ps just found this http://wichargerguy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=electrical&thread=8414&page=1

[nascarxx29]

The dash limiter also known as the instrument voltage regulator converts 12 volts to a pulsing 5 volts into the gauges when ignition switch is turned on .There is a better and improved voltage limiter with no points on the market

Note dash cluster need to be well grounded   
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,13944.0.html

[nascarxx29]

Check the contacts and connections on the circuit board
http://www.chargerspecialties.com/gauges.htm
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,79537.msg894206/topicseen.html#msg894206

[70charginglizard]

So are you saying things that were not working before.  The jumper wire test restored all but the dashlights.                One of the cars I chased electrical gremlins from

Yep. Odd huh.   I am trying to avoid a complete rip out of the dash if at all possible although I highly doubt I'm going to get away with that wish.

My main issue is timing. I really didnt want to rip all that stuff out to install a new dash harness right now until I had the time/money to deal with everything else up there. (radio rebuild, windshield wiper rebuild, heater box rebuild, firewall insulation, wiper seals, gage restoration) Unfortunately I'm being pushed into that senerio because the gremlins climbed up there to cause me havic now. I may just do some of it now. The new harness and the heater box rebuild. I know you can get back up there after the fact to do the radio and wiper motor. It just would have been much easier to do it all at once.


such is my luck I supose these days

[nascarxx29]

The way I size up the dash harness to save or discard .To lookover at the underhood bulkhead connection .Underhood where all 3 harness plug in.If its not melted and trashed or butchered .There shouldnt be to many surprises in the dash harness area due to the access.The amp gauge and its wiring should be looked over after cluster been removed .If the amp gauge area shows any signs of electrical issues. And look over the rest of the harness for prior repairs or tampering.And overall condition

[70charginglizard]

The way I size up the dash harness to save or discard .To lookover at the underhood bulkhead connection .Underhood where all 3 harness plug in.If its not melted and trashed or butchered .There shouldnt be to many surprises in the dash harness area due to the access.The amp gauge and its wiring should be looked over after cluster been removed .If the amp gauge area shows any signs of electrical issues. And look over the rest of the harness for prior repairs or tampering.And overall condition

yeah that bulkhead connection point on the dash harness has been a source of my headaches for a number of years now for other ignition issues. This is why if I take that dash cluster out again... the harness will be replaced.

I suspect that the only way to resolve my latest issue with loosing the dash lighting is to remove that cluster to get to the back of everything so I can figure this one out properly so the harness has already been ordered to deal with that.

I was just hoping there could perhaps be some odd way of finding the gremlin without removal of the cluster which its sounding more and more (because of access issues) not a possibility.

[nascarxx29]

But 1st try removing 3 amp instrument fuse and jumper wire both ends of fuse contacts and check results.And grounds are crucial on mopars dash cluster has to be secured to dash frame


There are other ways non textbook ways restore the dashlights that I personally did back in the day.I ran a wire from back of roll dimmer switch connection .A yellow w black stripe wire on the roll switch connector.Down to the headlight floor mounted dimmer switch.You couldnt dim or brighten them but they worked by the headlight or parking light position .Another was either the console shift indicator wire a orange wire tapped into it or the ashtray light which had some orange wire .And ran it to dimmer switch or fuse box key on fuse radio or wipers

[70charginglizard]

It was the stinkin dimmer switch.

Just put a brand new one in from JC Auto Restorations and its all working like a charm 

Thanks again for all of your help.  Now I can put off the new dash harness installation to next year after I have time to save the money to do all the other things I wanted to do then.

I'm sure when I do I'll have all kind of new and improved questions for you all to keep an open ear for me K

Thanks. You guys are awesome