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Cotton Owens 500

Started by Ghoste, January 27, 2006, 07:42:17 AM

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Ghoste

There has been so many 500 threads lately that I couldn't remember which one we were discussing Cotton Owens 500 in.  Since there can't be too many 500 threads anyway, I thought it wouldn't hurt to add these.  You 500 regulars no doubt already have these pics but for the rest of us, here are a couple of pics of Cotton Owens 500.  This looks to be a track car and not a street car but they are interesting just the same (to me anyway).
Since I blatantly and wrongly ripped them off from the Cotton Owens website, I thought I better include this link too so people will go over and buy stuff.

http://www.cottonowens.com/




69_500

The other thread was talking about the street 69 Charger 500 that Cotton Owens had. But that car is gorgeous too. He wound up with a street car after it was stolen, and it was the test mule for nose cones at Creative Industries.

Ghoste

Yeah, and actually I went to the site hoping to turn up some info on the street 500 but this was as close as I could come.
At least it get the link up for anyone who may not have heard of Cotton Owens and wants to find out more.

Silver R/T

http://www.cardomain.com/id/mitmaks

1968 silver/black/red striped R/T
My Charger is hybrid, it runs on gas and on tears of ricers
2001 Ram 2500 CTD
1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE
1995 Ford Cobra SVT#2722

Highbanked Hauler

 Check out the single guard rail at the top of the track :o That wouldn't do much to save you.
69 Charger 500, original owner  
68 Charger former parts car in process of rebuilding
92 Cummins Turbo Diesel
04 PT Cruiser

Shakey

I recall old footage where some cars actually left the speedway going over that railing.

Highbanked Hauler

  Wonder if that is the Chrysler test track.
69 Charger 500, original owner  
68 Charger former parts car in process of rebuilding
92 Cummins Turbo Diesel
04 PT Cruiser

Ghoste

I'm thinking it probably is.  Notice the strips on the front of the hood to watch the airflow?  The car appears to still have the front bumper intact as well.

Highbanked Hauler

I've read that the car was to low to pass tech.inspection in NASCAR and that is how it got to be a test vehicle.I am guessing they cut a notch in the top of the frame just behind the K frame.This would allow the car to be lower at the A pillar-cowl.At this point that is what I have in mind for the stocker to lower it and not use drop spindles.You couldn't do it on a street car because of the inner fenders and hood lines.
69 Charger 500, original owner  
68 Charger former parts car in process of rebuilding
92 Cummins Turbo Diesel
04 PT Cruiser

Ghoste

Now that I look more carefully at both pictures, you can see that there are airflow test strips all over the car.

Highbanked Hauler

Quote from: Ghoste on January 27, 2006, 07:55:55 PM
Now that I look more carefully at both pictures, you can see that there are airflow test strips all over the car.
Have you seen the picture of the superbird test,the car looks like its got a fur coat.
69 Charger 500, original owner  
68 Charger former parts car in process of rebuilding
92 Cummins Turbo Diesel
04 PT Cruiser

Ghoste

Yeah, I've seen a few of those but this was the first I had ever seen these Cotton Owens ones.  I'm sure I saw a test of a 1st gen somewhere once and I wish I could find those pics again.  I don't think they were on the track though, I think it was in the wind tunnel.  Then again, it could just be a memory trick.

chrisII

Quote from: Highbanked Hauler on January 27, 2006, 07:48:30 PM
I've read that the car was to low to pass tech.inspection in NASCAR and that is how it got to be a test vehicle.I am guessing they cut a notch in the top of the frame just behind the K frame.This would allow the car to be lower at the A pillar-cowl.At this point that is what I have in mind for the stocker to lower it and not use drop spindles.You couldn't do it on a street car because of the inner fenders and hood lines.
i dont get the point of this..you can back out the torshon bar adjusters till the K frame almost hits the ground. you do nead to work on the uppers to not bind the ball joint , but it creates less hassle than pre bending the stub does. simple chassis geometry says bending the car like that will put so much caster in the car you cant keep it from wandering on the straights

69_500

I found the article yesterday and read it again, it is identical to the first HEMI 500, in options and everything.

chargervert

Turn three at Darlington had the same type of guardrail! It was famous for leaving the Darlington stripe down the side of the car!

Ghoste

Hey Danny, if Cotton Owens personal car has the same options as one and two, is it possibly car number 3?  It was afterall, initally another road test press car.
If it is, maybe THAT is the car where the broadcast sheet to the first one has gone?

hemigeno

Quote from: chrisII on January 27, 2006, 10:00:46 PM
Quote from: Highbanked Hauler on January 27, 2006, 07:48:30 PM
I've read that the car was to low to pass tech.inspection in NASCAR and that is how it got to be a test vehicle.I am guessing they cut a notch in the top of the frame just behind the K frame.This would allow the car to be lower at the A pillar-cowl.At this point that is what I have in mind for the stocker to lower it and not use drop spindles.You couldn't do it on a street car because of the inner fenders and hood lines.
     i dont get the point of this..you can back out the torshon bar adjusters till the K frame almost hits the ground. you do nead to work on the uppers to not bind the ball joint , but it creates less hassle than pre bending the stub does. simple chassis geometry says bending the car like that will put so much caster in the car you cant keep it from wandering on the straights

Chris,
Lowering the car didn't necessarily mean lowering the frame, although you're right that they could crank the adjustment out and scrape the pavement if they wanted to.  NASCAR had minimum clearances for the cars, so there was a limit to what they could do with the torsion bar adjustment and still pass tech.  But - if you lowered the body on the frame (a little more difficult with a Unibody chassis but still possible) a couple of inches, you have to push less air out of the way going down the track.  Cars modified in this fashion still had to clear the minimum height requirements, so it usually took a modification to the rocker panels to accomplish this.  Chrysler was tinkering with this concept on the #6 car, and they were eventually caught.  The car had been chopped around on, so rather than do the surgery required to make it "legal" again, it became the car they used to test-fit the Daytona noses, etc.

Ford had already lowered the bodies on the Cyclone and Talladega, as evidenced by some trick (not as tall) rocker panels they created for those cars to semi-conceal their tactic.  They did the rocker panel treatment on their street version cars too, so I suppose NASCAR let them get away with it on the track like they let Chrysler get away with their slippery aero shapes.  Whatever they did had to be on the street versions of the cars (the homologation rule strikes again!).

Think of how much stronger the 500/Daytona/Superbirds would have been on the track if they'd have chosen to incorporate a rocker panel modification on the street versions in addition to the other aero tricks they employed...

*edit*
Also, Al's right, you couldn't quite do the same thing on a street car due to the inner fenders (not used on a race car) and engine/hood interference (not as much of a problem with a race car since they can position the engine a little easier where they want it).  FoMoCo's Talladega and Cyclone had the modified rocker panels, but they didn't modify the street car's ride height or make any other mods to the frame itself.  The street versions just looked like they were a little higher off the ground than a normal car due to the smaller profile rocker panels.  Hardly noticeable, but it allowed them much greater flexibility for the race cars.

Highbanked Hauler

 hemigeno,thanks for explaining what I am getting at.I didn't know about Ford and the rocker panels,that is a good idea.This car will most likely have 2x4 tubing behind the rockers as they aren't structurely sound.I am looking to get the car lowered the way they used to do it.
69 Charger 500, original owner  
68 Charger former parts car in process of rebuilding
92 Cummins Turbo Diesel
04 PT Cruiser

69_500

I don't know what VIN number the Cotton car is. I only know of the first one, and then the 5th one built. Don't know about the ones in between. But I know the buildsheet that was in the first one went to the 5th one, and the 5th one doesn't have a buildsheet in it. However the buildsheet to the 5th one makes it identical to the first one other than it being an AT and the first one is a 4 speed.

Also doesn't the first one have a letter from a magazine with it explaining how they dented the quarter and repaired it? Just wondering if they might have damaged 2 cars in the same area. Watched the Bud Lindeman tape and see a dent in the drivers side quarter panel, right above the wheel lip molding. Which is also the same area that was repaired on the first car right? However it is the same car in the whole program, I enhanced the video on the computer and it has the same liscense plate throughout the program. So I'm assuming it is the same automatic car, but has the same damage as was said to be done to the 4 speed car.

Mike DC


In regards to lowering the car by moving the K-frame:

--------------------------------------------------------

Literally notching the front framerails & setting the K-frame 1-2 inches higher?  It would seem to create more than just a slight issue with the rear torsion bar mounts in the tranny crossmember if you move the K-frame without moving the rear torsion bar mounts accordingly.  (And that probably wouldn't even clear the floorpan of the car if you moved things that drastically.  At least not on a stock Charger, although I know they were already hand-assembling their NASCARs from the framerails up by 1968, so they did have a little leeway.) 

So what steps am I missing here?

.

Highbanked Hauler

You don't set the K frame up into the frame rails.IF I AM RIGHTand I am NOT SURE I am,there was a notch cut in the top side of the frame rail  in front of the firewall.When the notch was closed up (and welded) it raised the front end of the frame rail 1-2 inches dropping the cowl the same amount.It would use the front wheel as a pivot point.As far as the T bar crossmember I am guessing that the mount itself(the piece about six inches long that is welded in the crossmember) was raised 1/4 inch or so in the front so it would line up with the T bar angle.This is all speculation and studying the front end itself.I maybe wrong and I'll be the first one to admit it.
69 Charger 500, original owner  
68 Charger former parts car in process of rebuilding
92 Cummins Turbo Diesel
04 PT Cruiser

Ghoste

I think the first car had more damage than that.  It has bondo all over the lower rear of the quarter.  The valence corner on the driver side is carved out of bondo.

69_500

So did the wreck both cars? Or does it appear to be a dent in the video to you? maybe I just watched it frame by frame 1 too many times.

Ghoste

I'll have to watch it again.  I honestly don't remember a dent in it.  Is it possible they had both cars and we only see the exterior of the 4 speed car?

69_500

Not unless they switch the liscense plate between the two cars. Because the plate on the car with the dent, is the same plate as the car they test drive. And I also noticed both cars have the marker light bezels body color not stripe color.