I am the owner of a true 1968 Hemi 4 speed Charger. Several years ago the VIN, fender tag , and title were sold on eBay by someone doing something they should not have done. I have solid proof that my car is the real deal for it still has all the body #s along with the torque boxes and K frame. I am willing to pay $ 1,000.00 US for the return of these items ( NO QUESTIONS ASKED ) The photos are from the eBay ad
Thanks for your help
I'd be willing to bet now there are two owners of a car with those numbers.
We shall soon find out about that. A friend has his FBI buddy looking in to it. If its registered we will find it. Another thing leading me to believe that someone has cloned it is a certain so called expert refuses to talk about the car. Go figure.
How did the e bay seller get the title and tags?
Quote from: Ghoste on September 02, 2014, 04:01:07 PM
How did the e bay seller get the title and tags?
I've been wondering the same thing. :popcrn:
iv been unable to fill in some of the blanks of the Chargers life. Have talked with several people that had lots to do with the car back in the 70s and 80s and even came up a person that has all the original sheet metal that was removed to make it a race car. But from the 90s till now is a mystery.
I hope it ends up well for you then. I think you may have a tough time if the title and tags were sold and the car has been rebodied (which is almost a certainty).
Where and when did you get the remains? You say it was a race car at one point?
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 03:43:14 PM
I am the owner of a true 1968 Hemi 4 speed Charger. Several years ago the VIN, fender tag , and title were sold on eBay by someone doing something they should not have done. I have solid proof that my car is the real deal for it still has all the body #s along with the torque boxes and K frame. I am willing to pay $ 1,000.00 US for the return of these items ( NO QUESTIONS ASKED ) The photos are from the eBay ad
Thanks for your help
hello & welcome :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: ,
crikey !! he got your title too , :flame:
Quote from: Ghoste on September 02, 2014, 03:44:33 PM
I'd be willing to bet now there are two owners of a car with those numbers.
yeah sorry to say !! that's my thinking on this too , although cant be too many 68 j codes left with a four speed , unless its been built up & sold to another country :brickwall:
really hope i'm wrong though !! , we'll all keep our fingers crossed , Good luck :cheers: :cheers:
Quote from: Ghoste on September 02, 2014, 04:33:33 PM
I hope it ends up well for you then. I think you may have a tough time if the title and tags were sold and the car has been rebodied (which is almost a certainty).
Where and when did you get the remains? You say it was a race car at one point?
that was going to be my next question , but ghoste beat me too it :2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
:popcrn:
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 03:43:14 PM
I am the owner of a true 1968 Hemi 4 speed Charger. Several years ago the VIN, fender tag , and title were sold on eBay by someone doing something they should not have done. I have solid proof that my car is the real deal for it still has all the body #s along with the torque boxes and K frame. I am willing to pay $ 1,000.00 US for the return of these items ( NO QUESTIONS ASKED ) The photos are from the eBay ad
Thanks for your help
Any chance of having any of the original drivetrain? Were you able to recover any personal information from ebay? What state did these items end up at?
Motor and trans long gone. Car wound up in Mo. Spent most of its life in North and South Carolina.
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
So how did all this transpire? It sounds, by the OP description, that he has the carcass of the car and not much more "still has all the body #s along with the torque boxes and K frame", and at some point, while the car was a mess in a wreckers yard or wherever that someone took/stole/bought/ it and deemed the car too far gone to save and sold off the above items. Then the carcass was sold to or found its way to typars who is endeavoring to bring it back to life?
I think this scenario is only going to get more common and cars that 20 years ago were deemed too far gone and raided for thier tags are now being restored and you end up with two cars with the same VIN!
Fascinating saga unfolding here... :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
I got the eBay info from another source that made a copy of the photo and nothing else. He was not 100% on how long ago it was. He thinks 10 years.
How did these items end up in someone's else's hands for sale on ebay? How were you aware that they were sold? Who is the mopar aficionado that is aware of this? I know a few gents in the mopar world in reality it is a small community.
Id rather not go dragging his name through the mud at this point. It would get neither of us anywhere. Tags not on car when I got it. I bought it mainly because it was a bad ass looking racecar and I love 68s. But now that all this has surfaced I see it only right that the tags be back in the correct spots.
This world is small these days. Something like this could be great fun to resolve as well as a head's up for those that still think they can hide and make money. :slap:
The best part is im not in this for the money. I have no intention of selling it now or ever.Had my chance on a 71 Hemi Challenger back in the 80 when I was going to collage and could not come up with the 3000.$$ . I sat on that phone # for over 2 years and finally I turned another buddy on to it . I see me never having a chance of have a true Hemi car again in my lifetime.
This looks interesting, but i cant help but wonder what will happen to the car these numbers are attached to :scratchchin:
Is a Rebodied car illegal to own?
So its a black car with gold accented interior? Is that right?
Quote from: Cncguy on September 02, 2014, 07:29:26 PM
Is a Rebodied car illegal to own?
this whole issue confuses me,
i've seen people replace truck cabs, after a tree or something crushed the roof, but would that count as a rebody? :brickwall: .. that IS where the vin's are typically... :shruggy:
I would say VIN holder has legal right to car
Can't you buy a title for a car in some states in the US? If that's the case, why not do that and fit all the original VIN tags to the car, that way you could categorically and forensically prove, you have the genuine car.
Or you could sell it overseas where the clashing titles would be less of a problem...
Quote from: Cncguy on September 02, 2014, 08:05:08 PM
I would say VIN holder has legal right to car
The law only recognizes legal documents, not a piece of tin, the one holding the title currently in their name is the legal owner, until it can be proven that it was obtained by false pretenses, coercion, deceit, etc, an uphill battle esp after a number of years
Quote from: A12 Superbee on September 02, 2014, 06:38:12 PM
Fascinating saga unfolding here... :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
:iagree:
Someone may have a "real" car based on docs in hand, and unfortunately the other guy might have whatever's left of the metal that once represented a Hemi Charger. It would be interesting to see how the law works.
These hacks should have been more careful about leaving identification on the old body parts. Most of these fraudsters cut the car into little pieces for recycling after performing such rebody surgery. :hack: What kind of a crook leaves "remains"?! :D
Strangely enough, this car might even be numbers matching again if the original engine/trans showed up, or somebody got out their "36-Piece Super Deluxe Number and Letter Engine Block Die Stamping Set" :icon_smile_blackeye:
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 03:43:14 PM
I am willing to pay $ 1,000.00 US for the return of these items ( NO QUESTIONS ASKED ) The photos are from the eBay ad
Thanks for your help
Even though they "belong" to your car, regardless of the circumstances, $1000 probably isn't enough to motivate anyone to come forward.
QuoteEven though they "belong" to your car, regardless of the circumstances, $1000 probably isn't enough to motivate anyone to come forward.
Exactly, gonna take a whole hell of a lot more that 1G
And another reason why rebodies give me the heebie jeebies.
These guys are right. Your best strategy is have your FBI buddy find a 1968 Hemi Charger wearing those numbers...even then it could be difficult to prove fraud was commited without forking out lots of money in legal fees. :Twocents: :Twocents:
This relates back to Ghoste's comment above. ^^^
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 03:43:14 PM
I am the owner of a true 1968 Hemi 4 speed Charger. Several years ago the VIN, fender tag , and title were sold on eBay by someone doing something they should not have done.
Two question for you if you don't mind... #1 How long have you owned the car, #2 Did you get it without a title or VIN...was there a state issued VIN, scrap title, or did you once have the VIN and title? :shruggy:
To get a scrap title, I thought the original title must be surrendered to the state? But now someone supposedly has it?
There's gotta be an interesting back story here..... :yesnod:
Technically, you aren't supposed to pull VIN tags off a car and swap them to another one but I think this will be a tough one.
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 06:56:10 PM
The best part is im not in this for the money. I have no intention of selling it now or ever.Had my chance on a 71 Hemi Challenger back in the 80 when I was going to collage and could not come up with the 3000.$$ . I sat on that phone # for over 2 years and finally I turned another buddy on to it . I see me never having a chance of have a true Hemi car again in my lifetime.
OK so this was about 10 years ago that the ID of the car went "missing"...so what's the rush now to have all the tin/paper back?, if your not in it for the money, and you want a HEMI car, just buy a roller, or envelope car, buy a crate HEMI, build it, enjoy it...it's just a machine, nothing more, unless the $$$$$$ signs are the true motive? :scratchchin:
Unless your some Chevy guy just trolling the Mopar numbers nuts into a feeding frenzy :icon_smile_big:
It's always about the $$$$$$ that's why he cares about it now and not when he bought it. :Twocents:
Obviously I did expect a few negative people as on every forum. But you guys don't know me or my relation with my Mopars. The car has been tucked away for some years now and recently I dug it out to get a better look at it and see what my next step was. After looking for old race history on the car I have talked with some former owners and people that spent many hours of there lives wrenching on it. That's when a third party came up with the photo and now im only trying to put the proper pieces back together. Until a few weeks ago I had no idea documentation as even still around. there are thousand of race cars running around this country with no or long forgotten documentation.
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 06:47:01 PM
Id rather not go dragging his name through the mud at this point. It would get neither of us anywhere. Tags not on car when I got it. I bought it mainly because it was a bad ass looking racecar and I love 68s. But now that all this has surfaced I see it only right that the tags be back in the correct spots.
So if you bought this car knowing it was missing these key items, what were your original intentions for the car? Just keep it as a racer or were you planning on taking a vin plate, fender tag, buildsheet, and title off of another charger and re-body it?
In light of the ebay ad, I agree it would be great to acquire those. However, the person with those items holds the title, which to me legally proves ownership. Is there actual proof beyond a reasonable doubt that these were stolen from said car? Or is that assumed?
QuoteI bought it mainly because it was a bad ass looking racecar and I love 68s. But now that all this has surfaced I see it only right that the tags be back in the correct spots.
Translates into: I bought the car cause it was super cheap and looked badass and was a 68 Charger to boot!, But once I found out what it actually was I decided to go after the tags to turn the once ragged out racecar into a number matching car that will fetch huge money!!!
Quote from: Indygenerallee on September 02, 2014, 10:23:37 PM
QuoteI bought it mainly because it was a bad ass looking racecar and I love 68s. But now that all this has surfaced I see it only right that the tags be back in the correct spots.
Translates into: I bought the car cause it was super cheap and looked badass and was a 68 Charger to boot!, But once I found out what it actually was I decided to go after the tags to turn the once ragged out racecar into a number matching car that will fetch huge money!!!
Well, regardless of how this turns out, that car that is wearing those tags in whatever guise its in today, just became worth a whole lot less.
Quote from: Indygenerallee on September 02, 2014, 10:23:37 PM
QuoteI bought it mainly because it was a bad ass looking racecar and I love 68s. But now that all this has surfaced I see it only right that the tags be back in the correct spots.
Translates into: I bought the car cause it was super cheap and looked badass and was a 68 Charger to boot!, But once I found out what it actually was I decided to go after the tags to turn the once ragged out racecar into a number matching car that will fetch huge money!!!
my thoughts exactly....sorry dude, but what your posted, OP, seems fishy itself as bad as the person who took your VIN, etc..
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 10:08:08 PM
Obviously I did expect a few negative people as on every forum. But you guys don't know me or my relation with my Mopars. The car has been tucked away for some years now and recently I dug it out to get a better look at it and see what my next step was. After looking for old race history on the car I have talked with some former owners and people that spent many hours of there lives wrenching on it. That's when a third party came up with the photo and now im only trying to put the proper pieces back together. Until a few weeks ago I had no idea documentation as even still around. there are thousand of race cars running around this country with no or long forgotten documentation.
It still boils down to... at the time of purchase, you bought a piece of metal, that was once a 1968 HEMI Charger with
No Title, No Documentation, and NO VIN Plate.
IMO,
that translates to cognizant knowledge, because you were aware, or were of the assumption, that no Title, VIN, or Fender Tag existed,
and that without which the piece of metal is basically "parts".
If I understand correctly here, the premise of the argument will boil down to under what criterion constitutes, or legitimizes a Motor Vehicle ?
and I suspect....
that with the level of restoration skills that can be purchased these days.... especially regarding HEMI Cars, that if you ever do indeed find the re-bodied Vehicle Titled somewhere ?
You then Sir, may have an extremely tough task ahead of you....
Dis-proving a Fender Tagged, VIN'd, beautifully restored and
correct 1968 HEMI Charger, and the Owner standing there "Title in hand" ? Yes, even re-stamped Body #'s, Torque Boxes, yada, yada, so no one can tell ?
vrs you....
with a piece of metal ?? with one body # stamp ?
Correct me if I am wrong here ? But does "Title", not also confirm ownership succession ?
Whereby, the other guy can "show" succession.... you yourself have admitted a lack of continuity with your shells history therein ?
I wish you the best of luck.
Sounds like both parties don't own a thing.
Quote from: JB400 on September 02, 2014, 11:19:29 PM
Sounds like both parties don't own a thing.
That's what will probably happen should the other vehicle surface and LEO's gets involved, I'd cut my losses, build the shell, slap another VIN/fender tag on it, drive it, done
But that would be illegal.
Carroll Shelby built 19 427 Competition Roadsters in the 1960s, yet there are over 50 of them on the road today. Hell there were more than 70 of them that showed up at the last Hot August Nights in Reno.
The Cobra folks fight forever over duplicate VINs and titles. This would be a forever fight over a Hemi Charger.
I think it's about the money. Which is fine. So let's not anoint a Saint Mopar just yet.
I think the title wins. :Twocents:
Better stock up lads, this is gonna be a long one! :popcrn:
This is an interesting read, but I still have not seen the answer to the key questions: How did the title get sold on ebay (with the vin and fender tag), and if the title was sold, why would anyone NOT owning the title come to the conclusion that they have more legal right to the car than the title holder? Legally, when it comes down to it, a car belongs to the title holder, not the person in possession of the sheet metal.
If I had a "bad ass race car" and wanted to keep it, I sure as HELL wouldn't be looking for the guy who owns the title to it, let alone paying a reward for it. Be careful what you ask for.
Unless there are records of the ebay sale proving that the photos of the VIN & fender tags were removed from the car & sold, I seriously doubt there will be any proof. Tags are removed for repairs all the time & this is just a photo. Do I believe that the tags were sold on ebay? Sure I do, they pop up constantly & have been available for years. I was offered tags with a title for a GTX 35 years ago when I was sorting out issues with a title to the GTX I had. ::)
Owning the car that had the tags & knowing it didn't have them when purchased, doesn't appear to give you the right to get the tags now. :shruggy:
either way I find OP very entertaining he has FBI friend right on this case right now!!!! :icon_smile_big: Soon this will end up in Obamas lap and we will find out that Obama is childhood friend gonna hunt down the Hemi car.
not wanting to hijack the original posters thread , no offence ment ( TYPars ) :cheers: :cheers:
talking about old race cars & Ebay !! remember a long time ago , there was a original 68 or 69 , sure it was a 68 though , original J code charger race car on ebay , it was rough ! gutted out & hacked up for 1/4 mile action , what made me remember it ! was , all the inner structure ie inner quarters where the window winder / cranks go was all cut out , weight saving I imagine . sure pictures were posted on here or may well of been the old site :scratchchin:
I'm curious to see pictures of Typars Charger. :popcrn:
Just throwing this into the mix, So, if there is a retitled 68 Hemi Charger out there posing as the OP's title less shell. And they did not remove all the S.O.N. numbers from there factory locations, how in the hell, could someone pass the car off as real. Are the existing stamped S.O.N. numbers on the OP's shell not worth way more than he is offering for a reward?????? to the owners of said title???. Just asking :scratchchin:
:popcrn:
What gets me is the people in this thread that want to flame this fellow charger owner. None seem bothered by the fact that some one can sell a car in an envelope on eBay, or that someone is possibly driving around with the vin tag fender tag and title from this guys car.
I'm not saying that I think he's entitled to the stuff just because he has the shell, but I do think that this stuff all belongs together. One way or the other. How on earth you would decide which, I do not know.
But, I do think there are a few keyboard cowboys in this thread that need to reel it back in a little. There's no need to run off a brand new member over a first response opinion.
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on September 03, 2014, 07:07:02 AM
What gets me is the people in this thread that want to flame this fellow charger owner. None seem bothered by the fact that some one can sell a car in an envelope on eBay, or that someone is possibly driving around with the vin tag fender tag and title from this guys car.
I'm not saying that I think he's entitled to the stuff just because he has the shell, but I do think that this stuff all belongs together. One way or the other. How on earth you would decide which, I do not know.
But, I do think there are a few keyboard cowboys in this thread that need to reel it back in a little. There's no need to run off a brand new member over a first response opinion.
I agree.
I'm not trying to run anyone off and I'm the first to criticize rebodying. I guess I'm just trying to point out that this is what happens with this.
There are two sides to this story. He will not release the other gent's name, who is supposed to be a mopar expert per se. He claims is involved. Which typars does not have to release that guy's name. It is his right to do so. However, I am curious about that parties viewpoint. At some point the truth will come out whether it is posted or not. Is this being posted on multiple message boards?
Let's see a pic of this 68 charger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess it would be wiser not to comment, but I'll do anyway.
If I understand correctly, there is a race car, and before OP owned it, someone decided that as a race car not driven on roads it does not need a title, and sold the VIN tag and title to someone (who has probably built a car around them). I do not even mention the fender tag as that in legal sense is only a piece of metal without a value, even though it does hold much value in collectible sense.
OP has then knowingly bought a racecar (project?) without the title and VIN, and after that found out that they may exist somewhere. Now that does not seem to me that OP then has right to claim that they are "his VIN and title" or that they should be "returned to him", and threaten with FBI.
I would not think that current VIN/title holder does have any legal or moral responsibility to OP, law might be interested in forged vehicle identity or what is it called, if the VIN/title has been used, but that would not concern the current owner of the body of the car.
As Wikipedia says: "In the United States, Canada the certificate of title for a vehicle (also known as a car title or pink slip; or pinks in the plural) is a legal form, establishing a person or business as the legal owner of a vehicle. "
So if the VIN/title holder does still have those items unattached and has not registered any vehicle with the title, I think he would have more legal ground to request the chassis returned to him than other way round, as someone already mentioned..
Just my few cents, as I am not a lawyer but an european you may ignore this post :) And if I was a known mopar expert I too would be very careful to comment on this kind of deal..
Thats essentially how I understand it too.
Quote from: pmike on September 03, 2014, 07:45:35 AM
I guess it would be wiser not to comment, but I'll do anyway.
If I understand correctly, there is a race car, and before OP owned it, someone decided that as a race car not driven on roads it does not need a title, and sold the VIN tag and title to someone (who has probably built a car around them). I do not even mention the fender tag as that in legal sense is only a piece of metal without a value, even though it does hold much value in collectible sense.
OP has then knowingly bought a racecar (project?) without the title and VIN, and after that found out that they may exist somewhere. Now that does not seem to me that OP then has right to claim that they are "his VIN and title" or that they should be "returned to him", and threaten with FBI.
I would not think that current VIN/title holder does have any legal or moral responsibility to OP, law might be interested in forged vehicle identity or what is it called, if the VIN/title has been used, but that would not concern the current owner of the body of the car.
As Wikipedia says: "In the United States, Canada the certificate of title for a vehicle (also known as a car title or pink slip; or pinks in the plural) is a legal form, establishing a person or business as the legal owner of a vehicle. "
So if the VIN/title holder does still have those items unattached and has not registered any vehicle with the title, I think he would have more legal ground to request the chassis returned to him than other way round, as someone already mentioned..
Just my few cents, as I am not a lawyer but an european you may ignore this post :) And if I was a known mopar expert I too would be very careful to comment on this kind of deal..
Exactly! :popcrn:
It shouldn't be very hard to spot a truly unusual Black 4-speed '68 Hemi Charger with super rare gold interior. :Twocents: :Twocents:
Quote from: moparnation74 on September 03, 2014, 07:57:54 AM
Quote from: pmike on September 03, 2014, 07:45:35 AM
I guess it would be wiser not to comment, but I'll do anyway.
If I understand correctly, there is a race car, and before OP owned it, someone decided that as a race car not driven on roads it does not need a title, and sold the VIN tag and title to someone (who has probably built a car around them). I do not even mention the fender tag as that in legal sense is only a piece of metal without a value, even though it does hold much value in collectible sense.
OP has then knowingly bought a racecar (project?) without the title and VIN, and after that found out that they may exist somewhere. Now that does not seem to me that OP then has right to claim that they are "his VIN and title" or that they should be "returned to him", and threaten with FBI.
I would not think that current VIN/title holder does have any legal or moral responsibility to OP, law might be interested in forged vehicle identity or what is it called, if the VIN/title has been used, but that would not concern the current owner of the body of the car.
As Wikipedia says: "In the United States, Canada the certificate of title for a vehicle (also known as a car title or pink slip; or pinks in the plural) is a legal form, establishing a person or business as the legal owner of a vehicle. "
So if the VIN/title holder does still have those items unattached and has not registered any vehicle with the title, I think he would have more legal ground to request the chassis returned to him than other way round, as someone already mentioned..
Just my few cents, as I am not a lawyer but an european you may ignore this post :) And if I was a known mopar expert I too would be very careful to comment on this kind of deal..
Exactly! :popcrn:
These are all valid points,but i would still like to see the car and the vin reunited . And the op may be asking for something he is not entitled to,BUT the guy who sold the docs and tags for this Hemi car (allegedly anyway) and the guy running around with a Charger claiming to be real (also allegedly) are the ones to really be in the hotseat.
And if i understand right the car was possibly decoded and inspected to pass as real by one of the guru types and that is a real problem as well.
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on September 03, 2014, 08:07:46 AM
And if i understand right the car was possibly decoded and inspected to pass as real by one of the guru types and that is a real problem as well.
That's where I was heading.....It can't be hard to forget a Charger as unusual as this. Somebody must know (or remember) something about the car. We haven't heard all of the story.
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 03, 2014, 08:13:51 AM
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on September 03, 2014, 08:07:46 AM
And if i understand right the car was possibly decoded and inspected to pass as real by one of the guru types and that is a real problem as well.
That's where I was heading.....It can't be hard to forghet a Charger as unusual as this. Somebody must know (or remember) something about the car. We haven't heard all of the story.
Typars, Let's see some pictures of this car. I bet this car is sitting in some ultrawealthy owners garage that will never see the street/light of day or it is overseas.
Quote from: Ghoste on September 03, 2014, 07:19:21 AM
I'm not trying to run anyone off and I'm the first to criticize rebodying. I guess I'm just trying to point out that this is what happens with this.
Same here, VIN tag swaps are illegal, & with good reason. Some people don't see any problem with doing it & like to call this process a "re-body" to soften the description of something that is simply against the law. We all here the same stories of how nobody is into it for monetary gains because they are "keeping the car forever" & will "never sell it" but the reality of it this is that it's impossible to predict the future. Somewhere along the line the car will be sold, or given to a family member, maybe inherited or even auctioned off by an estate sale. Some potential buyer will see the VIN tag for a Hemi car, slip in their own drool, wipe themselves off & flip it for a huge profit whether they know it's fake or not.
Quote from: typars on September 03, 2014, 12:05:16 AM
But that would be illegal.
Only if you tell someone.... :slap:
I'll leave the legal discussion to those that have a better understanding of the law as it concerns VIN Tags and Titles. But, I really hope he has a bill of sale for the "race car" as it would seem as if the owner of the "Tags and Documentation" could come forward and claim that the car was stolen from him and since he has documentation....it would seem that he could take the car as legal owner. (That's from my two semesters of Law School).....LOL
Bottomline is when you buy a race car with no VIN tag, the assumption is that the car will never return to the streets. It's been over ten years since the tags and the car were separated (if not longer) so the odds of even bring them together is highly unlikely.
"Envelope Cars" and rebodying were really big years ago...not surprisingly about the same time Mopar prices started skyrocketing. It's wasn't that hard to "make a HEMI car" and sell it to someone that didn't do his homework. That's always been the "down" side to clone cars since after they passed through several owners, the true story gets clouded. I have a 318 Charger that I have built into a Daytona...it now has a 440, Dana rear, etc. I never pass it off as an original, but after I am long gone....will a future owner try and pass it off as an original? Yes, the VIN clearly states what it was built as....but with the right documentation (and new VIN), and a quick talker, along with someone with more money than brains....well you can see the issue. *Just my Two cents :Twocents: and change....
Good luck, but I wouldn't hold out much hope....just remember, they never found the original James Bond Aston Martin DB-5 from Goldfinger.....it's more than likely in a private collection never to see the light of day...until....
Actually they did find the Bond car.
Quote from: Ghoste on September 03, 2014, 09:57:02 AM
Actually they did find the Bond car.
Ok! What about James Deans spyder?
Oh, I wasn't aware that one was missing.
Pieces of it are scattered all over the country. Someone is trying to rebuild it
http://jamesdean550.com/
Quote from: Cncguy on September 03, 2014, 10:40:59 AM
Quote from: Ghoste on September 03, 2014, 09:57:02 AM
Actually they did find the Bond car.
Ok! What about James Deans spyder?
Nothing is missing. I can see the VIN plate on it. :D
Now, back to the Hemi Charger.
(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i325/68x426/porsche_100324089_m.jpg) (http://s1088.photobucket.com/user/68x426/media/porsche_100324089_m.jpg.html)
Quote from: Ghoste on September 03, 2014, 09:57:02 AM
Actually they did find the Bond car.
Are you sure it was the stolen one? There were several built. (I had heard they finally find it...good if that is the case)
As for the Dean Spyder....it disappeared while on a road show with the CHP, if I remember the story correctly. It seems as if the car has a lot of "Bad luck" connected to it while on display. I am not sure I would want to rebuild it.....if it could be rebuilt....
Perhaps someone should "Rebody" the Dean car...................sorry couldn't help myself.
I still think typars is on a lost cause, but I do wish him the best of luck, I wouldn't hold out much hope...
Yes, there were a few built but only one DB5 had screen time and it was found. Has already disappeared into a collectors vault.
I don't think the OP is "claiming" the tags are his, he purchased a tag/title/document-LESS race car intentionally - which is probably illegal in most states either on the part of the seller or buyer or both. & on the flip side, the person in possession of the tags/title/documentation has NO claim to the body as he knowingly purchased the documentation w/o a body.
What he is doing is offering a "bounty" on the missing tags/title/documentation that he has become aware of the existence of. IMO the "bounty" is a little light, but one has to start somewhere.
What he did do is "out" XS29J8B370074 & the value of the car (if there is one) wearing those tags. Maybe it's a stalled project that someone will bail on now that some additional facts have come to light. :shruggy:
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 03, 2014, 11:26:42 AM
What he did do is "out" XS29J8B370074 & the value of the car (if there is one) wearing those tags. Maybe it's a stalled project that someone will bail on now that some additional facts have come to light. :shruggy:
6bbl, on page 1 we got the impression XS29J8B370074 was already built into a car, and recently inspected by an un-named mopar guru. OP doesn't know if the VIN has been registered at this time. I'm sure there's more, but for whatever reason we're not getting the rest of the story.....
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 03:52:16 PM
We shall soon find out about that. A friend has his FBI buddy looking in to it. If its registered we will find it. Another thing leading me to believe that someone has cloned it is a certain so called expert refuses to talk about the car. Go figure.
Selling just a VIN plate and a fender tag is one thing, people can collect them. Selling them with a TITLE though seems to show something was fishy and there is most likely a car out there that is cloned using these documents. :shruggy:
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 03, 2014, 11:26:42 AM
I don't think the OP is "claiming" the tags are his, he purchased a tag/title/document-LESS race car intentionally - which is probably illegal in most states either on the part of the seller or buyer or both. & on the flip side, the person in possession of the tags/title/documentation has NO claim to the body as he knowingly purchased the documentation w/o a body.
What he is doing is offering a "bounty" on the missing tags/title/documentation that he has become aware of the existence of. IMO the "bounty" is a little light, but one has to start somewhere.
What he did do is "out" XS29J8B370074 & the value of the car (if there is one) wearing those tags. Maybe it's a stalled project that someone will bail on now that some additional facts have come to light. :shruggy:
In his first post he is.....
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 03:43:14 PM
I am the owner of a true 1968 Hemi 4 speed Charger. Several years ago the VIN, fender tag , and title were sold on eBay by someone doing something they should not have done. I have solid proof that my car is the real deal for it still has all the body #s along with the torque boxes and K frame. I am willing to pay $ 1,000.00 US for the return of these items ( NO QUESTIONS ASKED ) The photos are from the eBay ad
Thanks for your help
:popcrn:
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 06:40:31 PM
I got the eBay info from another source that made a copy of the photo and nothing else. He was not 100% on how long ago it was. He thinks 10 years.
Does ebay have a record of this? If not then all you have is a photo. The one that is posted on the start of this thread does not show the actual ebay page. Does your picture have that when it is zoomed out?
I wish the OP all the luck in his quest to re-unite the the tags etc. with the correct "body", I really do !
That said,
It would be really nice to see some photos of the Charger "body" in his possession, from which the Tags, Title etc., was removed from ?
IMO, that would lend some perspective as to the why this supposed "fraud" has happened in the first place ? or if someone intended a fraud at all ?
For all anybody here really knows.....
the OP could in fact, merely be in possession of a single "panel" from the original body, that has a "number stamp" on it ?
Just say'in
I can't see anybody with any brains or knowledge of these cars whatsoever over the last 10 or 15 years, removing a Fender Tag, VIN Plate, and Title, from any actually viable HEMI Charger "Body", even remotely restorable no matter the cost ?
Far from intending to commit a fraud.... there must be some mitigating circumstances to the Cars condition ?
Many Race-cars.... are no more than a roof and 1/4 original panels Zuess clipped onto a complete tube chassis ?
No rad support, No floors, No firewall or Dash, nothing, nada, zilch, as far as an actual "Body" left to restore ?
My point being....
depending upon a couple of clipped on "panels", that had some stamped #'s, which may be the case without photos... might be pretty thin ?
I believe it may help the OP's position substantially, in obtaining any assistance from people in locating the Tags/Title etc., if he could POST some Photos of "what" he actually has ?
otherwise,
for all anyone knows... he may just be a guy with one rotted out 1/4 panel with a # stamping, looking to commit the same re-body fraud as the other guys, albeit, but with one extra 1/4 panel stamping ?
Quote from: Challenger340 on September 03, 2014, 11:55:29 AM
I can't see anybody with any brains or knowledge of these cars whatsoever over the last 10 or 15 years, removing a Fender Tag, VIN Plate, and Title, from any actually viable HEMI Charger "Body", even remotely restorable no matter the cost ?
That's a good point. If the car is a total roach and can't be rebuilt into something worthy of hemi car status....what good does getting tags/title back serve? Some people might say "anything and everything can be rebuilt!" Well, that's only somewhat true. Even with AMD you'll need a truckload of money to invest. How much is too much?
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 03, 2014, 12:01:19 PM
Quote from: Challenger340 on September 03, 2014, 11:55:29 AM
I can't see anybody with any brains or knowledge of these cars whatsoever over the last 10 or 15 years, removing a Fender Tag, VIN Plate, and Title, from any actually viable HEMI Charger "Body", even remotely restorable no matter the cost ?
That's a good point. If the car is a total roach and can't be rebuilt into something worthy of a hemi car status....what good does getting tags/title back serve? Some people may say "anything and everything can be rebuilt. Well, this is somewhat true. Even with AMD it still costs lots of money. Everything costs money. How much is too much?
I agree as well, thats why I posted several times on here asking him to post a picture of this car.
Quote from: moparnation74 on September 03, 2014, 12:07:34 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 03, 2014, 12:01:19 PM
Quote from: Challenger340 on September 03, 2014, 11:55:29 AM
I can't see anybody with any brains or knowledge of these cars whatsoever over the last 10 or 15 years, removing a Fender Tag, VIN Plate, and Title, from any actually viable HEMI Charger "Body", even remotely restorable no matter the cost ?
That's a good point. If the car is a total roach and can't be rebuilt into something worthy of a hemi car status....what good does getting tags/title back serve? Some people may say "anything and everything can be rebuilt. Well, this is somewhat true. Even with AMD it still costs lots of money. Everything costs money. How much is too much?
I agree as well, thats why I posted several times on here asking him to post a picture of this car.
EXACTLY !We need a picture of the entire car, or "what" he has ?
he may in fact, for all anyone knows, only have one 1/4 Panel with a # stamp.... that was Zuess Clipped onto a Race Car Tube Frame Chassis ? Making his "restoration" attempt claims..... in essence, no better than the same shylock activities to re-body'Ãng ?
If the OP has a "body", I believe it would help him gain assistance from people in his search, by proving it ?
This thread poses a number of interesting questions, but we do not have near enough info to provide any worthy feedback.
For starters, was the guy who sold the title the same guy that sold you the car? Or better yet, was the seller of each the title holder? If so, then when he sold the title it is likely he also sold rights to the car. If not then he may have had no right to sell one or either. If the purchaser of the title was an unwitting purchaser (a bona fide purchaser) and did not know of any wrong doing, then he still may have rights to the car and you may have an action against the seller but not the owner. Although if the name of the seller and title holder were not the same, that may be enough to justify knowledge on the part of the buyer. So it would be important to know if the seller was the title holder and who signed over the title? What state are you in and is that the state that you purchased the car in? What was purchased first, the car by you or the title by someone else? There are too many questions and unknowns.
I think that if you ever want to put the car back on the road then you may want to consult an attorney who specializes in vehicle title disputes, but be aware that it could very well end in you no longer owning the shell, or whatever you have. He or she could do a state by state title search and could likely subpoena ebay and get the buyer's and seller's info.
I will echo everyone else and say that you should post photos of what it is that you have.
Quote from: familymopar on September 03, 2014, 02:51:18 PM
I will echo everyone else and say that you should post photos of what it is that you have.
:popcrn:
Seems like one of the following will happen -
1. The OP and the title/VIN/fender tag will be reunited.
2. After contacting the title/VIN/fender tag holder the OP will have the sheriff show up with a car hauler to impound the Charger for the title holder to come pick up.
3. The OP will try to get a rebuild title and the body numbers will trace to the current title holder, see #2.
4. The OP will build the Charger as a race car and never mention the VIN again.
Personally, I wouldn't put a dime in to it unless #1 happens.
Quote from: Homerr on September 03, 2014, 03:08:52 PM
1. The OP and the title/VIN/fender tag will be reunited
Personally, I wouldn't put a dime in to it unless #1 happens.
I certainly wouldn't put a dime in it with a legal title out there floating around! I think there is a good chance that the OP doesn't own this car. I would hate for OP to build the car up and then have it taken away.
Again, all of this depends on questions we don't have the answers to. Hell, if the seller of the title is not the title holder then it is very possible neither of them own this car but rather the last legitimately titled owner does.
I believe the legal term for what this could turn into is a "poopstorm".
Enough of the BS, Post Some Pictures of this race car you presumably own.
I don't know why he wouldn't :shruggy:
Maybe the OP has heard enough to know that he does not want to hear anymore nor create more of a trail.
1) Came to the realization that connecting with the guy who has the title and legal ownership of his car perhaps isn't the brightest idea?
or
2) Having thrown the DodgeCharger.com masses into a dizzying spin, he's grown bored and is on to his next prank.
After reading this thread and hearing the discussion about something that was in the making 10-15 years ago got me remembering 40-45 years ago.
These hemi cars were rare from the start. Faking a car was done very early on and few new how to identify them properly.
Piecing together this kind of information is part of the hobby.
It is no surprise to be having this discussion today as their is little doubt much is left over from those earlier days of deception.
IMO this is a good and historically interesting topic. It has value for all of us to understand the whole history of these cars from the time when they were new until now.---Is this not provenance---?
Sometimes provenance can bring the big bucks. Just a well known name as an owner can add to the value of a car. :shruggy: We collectors are an odd and diverse group. :smilielol:
Quote from: familymopar on September 03, 2014, 07:21:40 PM
Maybe the OP has heard enough to know that he does not want to hear anymore nor create more of a trail.
Nail on the head right there! The OP's absence and lack of pics of the race car speak volumes! Maybe his sole intention was to out the car as a rebody, mission accomplished, time to move on.
I still have a lot of popcorn handy tho, just in case there are .....developments! :popcrn:
To me the tags and title belong to the hunk of sheetmetal that is left of the original car. Right we probably don't have the whole story here. But to say that they belong on any other body to which they are not original to only promotes the rebody problem we as a hobby have. And which as a hobby have not come to agreement as of yet on how to deal with it or what is allowed. I'm not sure the OP will ever get the tags and title and he is not at fault here it sounds like. My :Twocents: here but it seems he has more right to them than whoever stuck them on another body. They go to that body and that body only. I just hope when/if this all comes out that it isn't a 2nd or 3rd owner of a Hemi Charger that finds out his car has been rebodied and isn't original like he thought.
If the racecar started out as a 318 nobody would really care if it was rebodied.
EDIT: "care" wasn't the best word choice. Its still illegal and bad for the hobby. I meant something along the lines of "so much exposure"
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 03, 2014, 08:39:09 PM
If the racecar started out as a 318 nobody would really care if it was rebodied.
Really!! So we only care if somebodies rebodies rare cars?? Its either right or wrong. Black and white not grey.
Quote from: Davtona on September 03, 2014, 08:33:08 PM
To me the tags and title belong to the hunk of sheetmetal that is left of the original car. Right we probably don't have the whole story here. But to say that they belong on any other body to which they are not original to only promotes the rebody problem we as a hobby have. And which as a hobby have not come to agreement as of yet on how to deal with it or what is allowed. I'm not sure the OP will ever get the tags and title and he is not at fault here it sounds like. My :Twocents: here but it seems he has more right to them than whoever stuck them on another body. They go to that body and that body only. I just hope when/if this all comes out that it isn't a 2nd or 3rd owner of a Hemi Charger that finds out his car has been rebodied and isn't original like he thought.
I agree and disagree. I agree that the title belongs to the car. The question is who owns the car. If another person purchased the title, the owner of the title owns the hunk of sheetmetal. I don't think this would be as technically correct for the vin tag and certainly not the fender tag. But the car really belongs to the title, not the other way around. I think OP just poked a hornets nest and, seeing the hornets get stirred, decided the best way to not get stung was to be someplace else.
Of course all this still depends on "how" the title was sold, who was the seller, etc.
Several years ago, I got a call from a Texas DPS trooper. He asked me a simple question. Did I know a certain fellow and what did I think of him. I told him just what I thought of the guy. He is a crook. He is known for taking race cars that have been cut up or modified and swapping the vins and all the other necessary numbers and such to a virgin body and representing them as a nicely restored original car. He had offered me a 69 GTX convert that had been reported stolen for the insurance claim so the vin was swapped to a Satellite convert, so it could be sold. He offered me an original 68 hemi dart that had been swapped and sold as a virgin car, as well. At that time, this guy was trying to buy my 65 hemi Coronet and he told me that he already had a virgin body waiting to accept my vin tag. I refused to sell him the car for that very reason. My car was only modified slightly in the rear wheel housing and was easily fixed. This guy is just a crook, plain and simple. I told the trooper that I only sold one car to this guy and would never do business with him again because of what I learned about him. Only after I told him this did he tell me that he was an investigator looking for a 68 Hemi Dart that had been stolen by this guy! He was in the auto theft division of the Texas DPS and that he was gathering evidence for a " Come to Jesus" meeting with this guy and that I had helped a bunch. He asked me if I knew who bought the Hemi Dart body and I did not. If I had bought that body and said "no", I would have been in trouble as well. If I had bought the body, then I would have had to surrender that body.
This story is not here say. And that is how the state of Texas views taking the vin tags off of cars and swapping them around. Someone, however far down the line, has committed fraud for profit. I'm not sure what the statue of limitations is on such things, but I'm sure some innocent parties will get hurt if the feds really want to investigate this thing. Re-bodies happen all the time, but in this case, they left the evidence intact that could cook their goose. Glad it's not my goose!
Quote from: Davtona on September 03, 2014, 09:12:30 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 03, 2014, 08:39:09 PM
If the racecar started out as a 318 nobody would really care if it was rebodied.
Really!! So we only care if somebodies rebodies rare cars?? Its either right or wrong. Black and white not grey.
The point is greed and money
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 03, 2014, 09:24:45 PM
Quote from: Davtona on September 03, 2014, 09:12:30 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 03, 2014, 08:39:09 PM
If the racecar started out as a 318 nobody would really care if it was rebodied.
Really!! So we only care if somebodies rebodies rare cars?? Its either right or wrong. Black and white not grey.
The point is greed and money
We do care but his comment means no one would really focus on those cars versus a J code
Quote from: moparnation74 on September 03, 2014, 09:26:40 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 03, 2014, 09:24:45 PM
Quote from: Davtona on September 03, 2014, 09:12:30 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 03, 2014, 08:39:09 PM
If the racecar started out as a 318 nobody would really care if it was rebodied.
Really!! So we only care if somebodies rebodies rare cars?? Its either right or wrong. Black and white not grey.
The point is greed and money
We do care but his comment means no one would really focus on those cars versus a J code
Exactly.
Quote from: fastmark on September 03, 2014, 09:17:50 PM
Several years ago, I got a call from a Texas DPS trooper. He asked me a simple question. Did I know a certain fellow and what did I think of him. I told him just what I thought of the guy. He is a crook. He is known for taking race cars that have been cut up or modified and swapping the vins and all the other necessary numbers and such to a virgin body and representing them as a nicely restored original car. He had offered me a 69 GTX convert that had been reported stolen for the insurance claim so the vin was swapped to a Satellite convert, so it could be sold. He offered me an original 68 hemi dart that had been swapped and sold as a virgin car, as well. At that time, this guy was trying to buy my 65 hemi Coronet and he told me that he already had a virgin body waiting to accept my vin tag. I refused to sell him the car for that very reason. My car was only modified slightly in the rear wheel housing and was easily fixed. This guy is just a crook, plain and simple. I told the trooper that I only sold one car to this guy and would never do business with him again because of what I learned about him. Only after I told him this did he tell me that he was an investigator looking for a 68 Hemi Dart that had been stolen by this guy! He was in the auto theft division of the Texas DPS and that he was gathering evidence for a " Come to Jesus" meeting with this guy and that I had helped a bunch. He asked me if I knew who bought the Hemi Dart body and I did not. If I had bought that body and said "no", I would have been in trouble as well. If I had bought the body, then I would have had to surrender that body.
This story is not here say. And that is how the state of Texas views taking the vin tags off of cars and swapping them around. Someone, however far down the line, has committed fraud for profit. I'm not sure what the statue of limitations is on such things, but I'm sure some innocent parties will get hurt if the feds really want to investigate this thing. Re-bodies happen all the time, but in this case, they left the evidence intact that could cook their goose. Glad it's not my goose!
I fear this sort of thing is not super uncommon. Texas DPS undoubtedly takes all these shenanigans very, very seriously. I don't know that OP is in Texas, but if he were this would likely get resolved with some gusto. That being said, when the dust settles and the bad guys are out of the picture and you have different "innocents" with a claim to the car, the title wins in Texas, and I would think just about everywhere. I think it is likely that the guy who is the last innocent named title holder will have a right to the car. Could be quite a mess getting there though. If no innocent title holder exists it is possible that the car would escheat to the state.
Quote from: moparnation74 on September 03, 2014, 09:26:40 PM
We do care but his comment means no one would really focus on those cars versus a J code
I know, I follow but you have a much better choice of wording.
I remember a 68 hemi charger shell on eBay last year that was missing the vin and fender tags. Looked green but could have been black. Wonder if its the same car.
We usually take people here at there word, and typars is probably legit. Given some experiences in the past (such as Syreal_70) I'd just like to throw out there that we only know typars at this point by his 9 posts.
It's a long shot, but what if he's shopping for a Hemi VIN for his own 318 rebody project? I'm just throwing this out there so we don't end up looking like fools and we consider this, and typars knows we consider this.
I don't know how to legitimize him other than the old take a pic with a "Hi DC.com" sign with his Charger. Even then, how is it proven on a '68 that it's a real Hemi body? Weren't '68's different from later body stamps?
Quote from: Homerr on September 04, 2014, 12:36:00 AM
we only know typars at this point by his 9 posts.
9 posts, and no camera. ::)
I think it reasonable to give him 7 days to find a camera. Before his credibility or agenda are questioned. And brutalized.
People do get sick, have family issues arise, have work crises, so it's ok to me if he doesn't revisit until next weekend. Of course the FBI is on this case so we can be patient. Maybe the expert will arrive with a "more to the story" story.
(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i325/68x426/38904758934ufo.jpg) (http://s1088.photobucket.com/user/68x426/media/38904758934ufo.jpg.html)
Quote from: Nwcharger on September 03, 2014, 11:29:47 PM
I remember a 68 hemi charger shell on eBay last year that was missing the vin and fender tags. Looked green but could have been black. Wonder if its the same car.
:2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
yes I remember that too !! , or one like it !! story went ! it had been stolen years before !! fender & vin tags were missing , & there was a 383 or a 440 under the hood now , still had the numbers stamped on the body though ! , it was a mess .
there was a thread on it here , with pictures ! was trying to locate it earlier , along with that gutted out 68 hemi charger race car I mentioned in my previous post in page 2 of this thread .
At the end of the day, the tags and title should never have been sold in an envelope, this is why I hate rebodies, typars will have a hard time forcing the tags to be reunited with the car short of buying them in whatever fashion they exist, this is why I hate rebodies, there is a lot more to this story I think (not know-just think), this is why I hate rebodies, I hope the truth comes out and this is why I hate rebodies.
My thoughts based on what i've seen so far:
1- The VIN should have never been removed in the first place, regardless of the cars condition or purpose.
2- As of today, the OP does not legally own that car. He has that car's old body or panels.
3- Only if the OP can prove fraud who he be entitled to getting the VIN back. He may open a can of worms too and have to give the body back to the title holder.
All of the above has been said by others, but just my two cents.
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 04, 2014, 05:44:21 AM
My thoughts based on what i've seen so far:
1- The VIN should have never been removed in the first place, regardless of the cars condition or purpose.
2- As of today, the OP does not legally own that car. He has that car's old body or panels.
3- Only if the OP can prove fraud who he be entitled to getting the VIN back. He may open a can of worms too and have to give the body back to the title holder.
All of the above has been said by others, but just my two cents.
This is pretty much how I see it too. In some states you can't even junk a car without a VIN tag or papers that prove ownership like a title or transferable registration.
On the DMV website in New York it states.....
http://dmv.ny.gov/registration/transfer-ownership-and-acceptable-proofs-ownership#Cars
Model year 1972 or older The acceptable proof of ownership is either
** a NYS Transferable Registration
** acceptable proof of ownership from any other state (1)
To transfer ownership
** the owner can use the transferable registration and a bill of sale to transfer ownership to another person
** make sure the registration document is marked "transferable" on the front
** the seller whose name appears on the transferable registration must sign the back of the transferable registration
(1) Different states issue different documents for ownership and transfer of older vehicles. To make sure that an out-of-state document is the acceptable proof of ownership, contact the DMV in the state that issued the document.
What a bunch of jerks! I wouldn't bother to post any more information either. The OP doesn't need to prove anything to anybody. He came here asking for help - not an analysis of his intentions. Apparently no one posting here knows anything about the car or the tags - but that doesn't mean that someone who does won't see it and actually try to help privately.
Troy
Yes Troy, the jerk-o-meter is maxed out here by the usual suspects. Absolutely no help but plenty of accusations to go around!
By the way ........ no help here either! That's why I haven't posted before now ! Really funny to see all the accusations and theories fly around here if he WAS lucky enough to find what he was looking for.
I, for one, really hope his search is successful and things can be worked out in his favor!
Well, I can only speak for myself here, but I was certainly not trying to be a jerk. If any of my comments were taken that way then I apologize to typars right here and now. I hope that he/she does come back.
I do not think typars did anything wrong and hope that I did not insinuate otherwise. But I do think typars may have been wronged, and that worries me. If typars has the shell of a rare car that he/she is thinking of building up, and now has found that someone else holds the title to the car, I certainly think typars should try to resolve that situation before dumping a lot of money into this project.
I too wish typars all the luck in the world and hope that the car and the title/vin are reunited.
Some have made assumptions & have posted like jerks, but typars' first post clearly states his/hers intentions. They want the VIN & fender tags along with the title "given to them" that they do not own. That bothers people. :Twocents:
My posts have also put me in the jerk camp but really my beef lies with the guy who sold the tags off and the guy who (ASSUMING he did so) put them on a car. Those were my points and if I had a car in a situation similar to typars I'd want them too regardless of the engine.
Quote from: tan top on September 04, 2014, 03:37:50 AM
Quote from: Nwcharger on September 03, 2014, 11:29:47 PM
I remember a 68 hemi charger shell on eBay last year that was missing the vin and fender tags. Looked green but could have been black. Wonder if its the same car.
:2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
yes I remember that too !! , or one like it !! story went ! it had been stolen years before !! fender & vin tags were missing , & there was a 383 or a 440 under the hood now , still had the numbers stamped on the body though ! , it was a mess .
there was a thread on it here , with pictures ! was trying to locate it earlier , along with that gutted out 68 hemi charger race car I mentioned in my previous post in page 2 of this thread .
is this the one your thinking of ( NWC) ?? :2thumbs: in the links below !
it is the one of 68s im thinking about in my above post ?
http://rustingmusclecars.com/dodge/1968-charger-hemi
http://collectorcarpricetracker.com/auctions/detail/330889860044/
the pictures are the same ones , that were posted on here , in the thread about that car .
still not been able to find the gutted out 68 J code , drag car , yet :scratchchin:
** also been having a quick search around on the net , for black & gold & black on black , 68 , J codes , four speeds , that have been sold or forsale , or been featured or pictures of etc , not found anything as of yet , anything I find will post here :yesnod:
I don't see people as being jerks, I see them (including me) as being apprehensive before jumping on the "help me" side, and probably will be until some questions are answered. That doesn't mean though that the OP does not deserve some help, it's just that more info is needed. On a Charger forum, especially with a HEMI car, people are going to raise questions if the story isn't perfectly clear to start with.
But think about it (most of this has been mentioned already):
1- The tag/vin/plate went missing years ago...why would the OP need them back only now if he's had the car for so long? How long has he known about the sale of the VIN?
2- We've only seen the body number...as many have mentioned, can we see the car in its current state?
3- The FBI is envolved...really? Couldn't they find a registered VIN over their lunch break and have this resolved very quickly?
4- So you find the title holder...now what do you do to get everything back? Any legal fees will cost way more than $1000.00. What makes you so sure you'd win a legal battle and not lose the body?
5- It's a HEMI car...shouldn't the title, VIN, and plate be worth more than $1000.00?
6- Is the current title holder the person that bought the title and tag without a car? Those numbers could have been applied to a car which was then registered, and that car sold numerous time since.
7- If the body numbers are missing on the "clone" that could also mean it was repaired.
I want to believe the OP, and like many Charger owners he's probably a very nice guy. There's just still too many unsanwered questions and like others, I'd love to here more from the OP and see an original HEMI car reunited with it's VIN and trim tag.
Quote from: Troy on September 04, 2014, 10:25:31 AM
What a bunch of jerks!
I just started reading this thread today & was thinking the same thing myself. Obviously, more people here should follow my example instead of being a bunch of Richard Craniums.
I know many here have this very same thought but are too timid to say it themselves. This had to be said by someone, so it might as well have been by me.
Quote from: Old Moparz on September 04, 2014, 11:08:53 AM
Some have made assumptions & have posted like jerks, but typars' first post clearly states his/hers intentions. They want the VIN & fender tags along with the title "given to them" that they do not own. That bothers people. :Twocents:
:popcrn:
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 04, 2014, 12:19:26 PM
I don't see people as being jerks, I see them (including me) as being apprehensive before jumping on the "help me" side, and probably will be until some questions are answered. That doesn't mean though that the OP does not deserve some help, it's just that more info is needed. On a Charger forum, especially with a HEMI car, people are going to raise questions if the story isn't perfectly clear to start with.
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 04, 2014, 12:19:26 PM
I want to believe the OP, and like many Charger owners he's probably a very nice guy. There's just still too many unsanwered questions and like others, I'd love to here more from the OP and see an original HEMI car reunited with it's VIN and trim tag.
This dude's in a bad spot that none of us would
ever want to be in - - so I hope no offense was taken.
I do want to say that ones curiosity kicks in on threads like these. Its like unraveling a mystery, and the reader gets sucked in fairly quick. Some guys put their Sherlock Holmes hat and pipe on and started playing detective, then a few judgments were made.
I think the nature of the OP's posts led us to a natural abyss of wonder. Since there wasn't much info provided to us, that's usually an on ramp to the road of speculation.
We like stories that don't require us to fill in the blanks, and a few pictures now and then. Sorry if we offended you. :icon_smile_wink:
...and welcome to the site! :cheers:
I don't think TYPARS is in a bad way. It sounds like he bought a hulk really cheap as a parts car with no title. Now he's trying to make something from nothing. I guess if he paid $30k for a Hemi body WITH a title, that would be different.
However it also sounds like there may be a Hemi Charger out there that didn't come from Mopar as one. That is dead wrong.
Anyway I don't see him buying what he wants for $1k to make his $500 hulk into a $100k car and that's exactly what he's trying to do.
Sheldon
Quote from: tan top on September 04, 2014, 11:46:36 AM
Quote from: tan top on September 04, 2014, 03:37:50 AM
Quote from: Nwcharger on September 03, 2014, 11:29:47 PM
I remember a 68 hemi charger shell on eBay last year that was missing the vin and fender tags. Looked green but could have been black. Wonder if its the same car.
:2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
yes I remember that too !! , or one like it !! story went ! it had been stolen years before !! fender & vin tags were missing , & there was a 383 or a 440 under the hood now , still had the numbers stamped on the body though ! , it was a mess .
there was a thread on it here , with pictures ! was trying to locate it earlier , along with that gutted out 68 hemi charger race car I mentioned in my previous post in page 2 of this thread .
is this the one your thinking of ( NWC) ?? :2thumbs: in the links below !
it is the one of 68s im thinking about in my above post ?
http://rustingmusclecars.com/dodge/1968-charger-hemi
http://collectorcarpricetracker.com/auctions/detail/330889860044/
the pictures are the same ones , that were posted on here , in the thread about that car .
still not been able to find the gutted out 68 J code , drag car , yet :scratchchin:
** also been having a quick search around on the net , for black & gold & black on black , 68 , J codes , four speeds , that have been sold or forsale , or been featured or pictures of etc , not found anything as of yet , anything I find will post here :yesnod:
Yea that's the one I was talking a about. :cheers: I thought about buying it when I seen it for sale but told myself I have way too many cars already and don't need another.
I knew I had seen that vin pic that the OP posted.
Took some time to go thru a bunch of disc's but here's the rest of the pics.
Quote from: UFO on September 06, 2014, 12:26:01 PM
I knew I had seen that vin pic that the OP posted.
Took some time to go thru a bunch of disc's but here's the rest of the pics.
wow ! you found it !! :bow: :cheers: good detective work !! :cheers: :cheers: :2thumbs:
yeah that's one , gutted out drag car I was thinking off , ! although don't remember the gold paint though :scratchchin: , sure there was a picture of the underside , showing a torque box too
That's more car than I was expecting honestly. I'd want the title/vin too!
I've seen worse fixed, still viable,.... but darn near a re-body as better alternative ?
I'll keep an eye out here in western canada, you never know.
Holey radiator support Batman! They really went crazy with the hole saw to shave off the pounds. :o
A derelict of a car from those photos, by the time your done "restoring" it back to original, if that's the OP's intent, about the only thing "original" will be the tin tags....if there's a nice built rebody out there sportin the tags...let it be. :Twocents:
Quote from: DAY CLONA on September 06, 2014, 05:29:45 PM
A derelict of a car from those photos, by the time your done "restoring" it back to original, if that's the OP's intent, about the only thing "original" will be the tin tags....if there's a nice built rebody out there sportin the tags...let it be. :Twocents:
I disagree. OP's (presumed) car is rough, no doubt. And if he/she wants to rebuild it, go for it. If not, also fine. But it is likely that somewhere out there is someone with a real J code car that's not a real J code car (and likely they paid for a real J code car), with a false title history and all. If OP's car is bound for the grave, so be it. But the car should take its title and vin number to the grave with it. That's my thought anyway.
Personally, to bring that car back to life, I would have to have the original drivetrain. It is a very costly resto to not have any of the drivetrain along with basically no parts.
Quote from: moparnation74 on September 06, 2014, 07:07:03 PM
Personally, to bring that car back to life, I would have to have the original drivetrain. It is a very costly resto to not have any of the drivetrain along with basically no parts.
I agree. For me personally this car is yard art. But I have seen guys here bring back worse, and I'm glad they do. The bigger point is, if OP brings this car back, what is the vin? What is the title history? Apply for a new vin and title? Fine, but that is robbing the car of its history. Even if I were inclined to give this car a second life, i definitely would not consider it without the docs. And that is besides the fact that I think if OP rebuilds it he stands a fair chance in losing it in a dispute to the title holder. The vin and title should just not have left this car. Now it is a dirty mess.
I'll be interested to see where this one goes.
Hopefully typars hasn't been scared off, as is often the case when new members join a forum with "controversial" first posts.
Quote from: doctor4766 on September 06, 2014, 08:19:00 PM
I'll be interested to see where this one goes.
Hopefully typars hasn't been scared off, as is often the case when new members join a forum with "controversial" first posts.
I hope typars comes back as well. Not only because my curiosity is peaked but also because I think the resources on this site may serve him/her very well.
He hasn't been back in a couple of days so we may well have driven him off. :icon_smile_blackeye:
Im curious if he has a state issued VIN/title - or none at all? :shruggy:
This thread rhymes with the 70 Charger 440 6 pack with AC thread......... :eek2:
Quote from: HANDM on September 06, 2014, 09:39:13 PM
This thread rhymes with the 70 Charger 440 6 pack with AC thread......... :eek2:
It is reminiscent.
Quote from: Ghoste on September 06, 2014, 08:53:47 PM
He hasn't been back in a couple of days so we may well have driven him off. :icon_smile_blackeye:
I hope not.
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 06, 2014, 09:34:31 PM
Im curious if it has a state issued VIN/title - or none at all? :shruggy:
I think the implication, or my assumption anyway, was none at all.
Quote from: familymopar on September 06, 2014, 10:05:48 PM
I think the implication, or my assumption anyway, was none at all.
I hate to be a jerk, but it can never be legally driven on a public road...then yes, he has LAWN ART.
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 06, 2014, 10:59:09 PM
Quote from: familymopar on September 06, 2014, 10:05:48 PM
I think the implication, or my assumption anyway, was none at all.
I hate to be a jerk, but he can never be legally driven on a public road...then yes, he has LAWN ART.
Well, it appears that typars purchased it as an old race car with no title or vin, so I had assumed that he/she wanted to maybe build it up to race when it was purchased. That can still be done. Hell of a project, but if that is what it was purchased for, then typars is right where he started.
Hello All,
I have been following this thread and unless I am missing something or someone knows more than I read this is rough place to ask questions. As I do not know Typars I may be wrong, but I think Typars is only doing the same thing anyone of us would do if we had a hemi race car missing tags. Trying to find them to be able to complete the car. I also think he just wants to cover his A$$. If he puts any money into this car to rebuild it as a vintage racer he will forever run the risk of having some guy come up to him carrying an envelope with title, tags and the sheriff at his side ready to take the car. Now days you can not count on what the courts may do. Just my take on it.
RiverRaider
Quote from: familymopar on September 06, 2014, 11:04:28 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 06, 2014, 10:59:09 PM
Quote from: familymopar on September 06, 2014, 10:05:48 PM
I think the implication, or my assumption anyway, was none at all.
I hate to be a jerk, but he can never be legally driven on a public road...then yes, he has LAWN ART.
Well, it appears that typars purchased it as an old race car with no title or vin, so I had assumed that he/she wanted to maybe build it up to race when it was purchased. That can still be done. Hell of a project, but if that is what it was purchased for, then typars is right where he started.
Hello All,
I have been following this thread and unless I am missing something or someone knows more than I read this is rough place to ask questions. As I do not know Typars I may be wrong, but I think Typars is only doing the same thing anyone of us would do if we had a hemi race car missing tags. Trying to find them to be able to complete the car. I also think he just wants to cover his A$$. If he puts any money into this car to rebuild it as a vintage racer he will forever run the risk of having some guy come up to him carrying an envelope with title, tags and the sheriff at his side ready to take the car. Now days you can not count on what the courts may do. Just my take on it.
RiverRaider
I have been a member here for roughly a year now. I have also been a member on numerous forums. This by far is the best forum I have been a member of and a great place to ask questions. Especially, with the wealth of experience and knowledge of the member base here.
Do not let one topic steer you from the true nature of this forum.
I will never purchase or consider a car that is missing the items making it legit/legal. For anyone who does then you assume all risk, no questions.
Its not a rough a place to ask. This topic got a little sideways but overall this is a comparatively laid back site so never be worried to ask anything.
Hello All I'm Back.
I never intended to return due to over speculation and slander of my character but now I see some of you actually get where I'm coming from.
RiverRaider hit the nail on the head. I would love to see the car go back to the street / racecar it has been most of its life. Day 2 cars rock and you can actually drive them instead of letting the sit in some climate controlled vault where no one will ever get to enjoy them. After the car had sat for years in storage I was made an offer for the car that was the same $$$ that I had in it. This would have taken the car out of the country ( not good ) but I thought before I sold it I would try to find out about its race history. Looking in to this I found out that it never did have a rich and glorious history on the track but mad quite a ruckus on the St. race scene. More phone calls led me to not only the person that gave it its black & gold paint but also to one of the 2 people that turned it into a racecar. Unfortunately the other person died early in life. Wile talking with the one person he informed me that he had been sitting on all of the parts that they had removed back when the car took the shape that you see it today. He then told me that the only way he would ever get rid of them is if they went right back on the car they came off of. Looks like all I am missing is the hood and the passenger door of the original sheet metal. The Photos that got posted of Wildfire are of my car long before I got it I think. What happened to it after these photos I have no Idea. Help is what I was and am looking for. If all you are looking to do is come up with some kind of weird conspiracy theory or name call just leave it alone. Thank You
Glad you're back. :wave:
x2 :cheers: remember opinions are like "A holes" EVERYBODY has one ,think water off a ducks back :yesnod:
Glad you came back! Best of luck to you in your efforts.
Glad you're back typars! We will all keep an eye out for that tag. It would be terrific to reunite the tag and the car! What are your plans for the car?
Good to see your back !! (( Typars )) :cheers: :yesnod: :2thumbs:
we will all keep our eyes peeled , & for any black with gold 68 j code chargers !! & post here or send a PM :yesnod: ,
sorry if this might be a silly question , but have you tried contacting Galen Govier , normally he takes years to answer , unless its a aero or a J or R or V code or convertible mopar .
could email Barry , of Hamtramck historical too :scratchchin:
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/index.shtml
http://www.gvgovier.com/
:2thumbs: :popcrn:
If all the parts off the car were kept to one day go back on the car, how did all the tags come to be sold on Ebay along with the title? Did someone steal them? Surely if they were stolen you would have a much better chance of recovery and turning your car back into what it was?
You said "someone did something they should not have done" when they sold the tags and title, what did you mean by that? They did something criminal or they did something 'stupid'?
From what I gather the car was traded for another hot rod and at the time still had a dash so it should of still had the vin on it. Still not certain the tags got sold alone on eBay or with the car. all I have is a photo of the items from an eBay auction. Tags should have never left the car is all I'm saying.
Thanks for the help guys
Glad to see someone saved photos so a record of this car exists. :cheers:
Quote from: typars on September 08, 2014, 05:35:08 AM
From what I gather the car was traded for another hot rod and at the time still had a dash so it should of still had the vin on it. Still not certain the tags got sold alone on eBay or with the car. all I have is a photo of the items from an eBay auction. Tags should have never left the car is all I'm saying.
Thanks for the help guys
It's simple as to why the tags were removed & sold after seeing the photos of this car. For the buyer it's cheaper than fixing that car so you can claim to be a Hemi owner, & for the seller there is a big profit margin on removing two screws & drilling two rivets.
Quote from: typars on September 08, 2014, 05:35:08 AM
From what I gather the car was traded for another hot rod and at the time still had a dash so it should of still had the vin on it. Still not certain the tags got sold alone on eBay or with the car. all I have is a photo of the items from an eBay auction. Tags should have never left the car is all I'm saying.
Thanks for the help guys
Too many what if's? And specualtion with no actual proof. I agree, when you say, "Tags should have never left the car." Possible, when it was traded for that hot rod that person rebodied it and sold the shell. However, when you purchase a car knowing that these are missing, these are the risks invovled. Good luck on your quest!
I really curious to know what happens from a legal standpoint if the other party is located...On one side, there's a guy with a 68 Charger shell, and on the other side there's a guy with a title, VIN, and tag possibly attached to another car.
Now what happens? :popcrn:
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 08, 2014, 08:34:51 AM
I really curious to know what happens from a legal standpoint if the other party is located...On one side, there's a guy with a 68 Charger shell, and on the other side there's a guy with a title, VIN, and tag possibly attached to another car.
Now what happens? :popcrn:
I would think that the state troopers would have to inspect the car for the body stamped VIN. The rebody would get the VIN/fender tag confiscated and get a rebuild VIN/title and maybe some fraud charges for the owner too? :shruggy:
Hopefully typars would be contacted and get the VIN/fender tag back then.
Best of luck finding the tags typars!
I know that 68s shells are stamped with body numbers and not VINs. The pictures of the fender tag does't show the VIN from what I see, just the body number.
So for 68, you have the shell and tag that match, and VIN and title that match. But how do you put it all together to show its from the same car? Just curious.
That's a mess I would not want to be part of, Whoever owns those tags and title now owns "your" Charger, that's one reason I refuse to buy any car without a title and a written statement from said party whoever name that is on the title, that it was sold to myself on XX date and XX price and have both parties sign it. If everyone bought and sold like that we would not have situations like these :Twocents: best of luck!
Quote from: Homerr on September 08, 2014, 09:35:54 AM
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 08, 2014, 08:34:51 AM
I really curious to know what happens from a legal standpoint if the other party is located...On one side, there's a guy with a 68 Charger shell, and on the other side there's a guy with a title, VIN, and tag possibly attached to another car.
Now what happens? :popcrn:
I would think that the state troopers would have to inspect the car for the body stamped VIN. The rebody would get the VIN/fender tag confiscated and get a rebuild VIN/title and maybe some fraud charges for the owner too? :shruggy:
Hopefully typars would be contacted and get the VIN/fender tag back then.
Best of luck finding the tags typars!
Should be the way, but has this ever actually happened in any case?
Yes. I don't recall the specifics but it has happened.
I'm not sure what state you are in but have you looked into a surety bond title? It would be one way to ensure you are not screwed out of your car for what you have in it so far.
And, I beleive, after you have owned it 5 years (wisconsin anyway) from obtaining this title the other title becomes void. You would have to look into it some because I'm sure every state is different.
this is my understanding... perhaps this is not an option for a known title sold on the internet.
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 08, 2014, 09:58:20 AM
I know that 68s shells are stamped with body numbers and not VINs. The pictures of the fender tag does't show the VIN from what I see, just the body number.
So for 68, you have the shell and tag that match, and VIN and title that match. But how do you put it all together to show its from the same car? Just curious.
Yes, that is a sticky situation. No vin on 68 fender tags, only body number. VIN and eng/trans numbers should match if original drivetrain survives. Only way to tie the shell/fender tag to the VIN/drivetrain is to have some original paperwork - like the buildsheet. This will be a tough one to work out. :popcrn:
Quote from: sdweatherman on September 08, 2014, 12:59:46 PM
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 08, 2014, 09:58:20 AM
I know that 68s shells are stamped with body numbers and not VINs. The pictures of the fender tag does't show the VIN from what I see, just the body number.
So for 68, you have the shell and tag that match, and VIN and title that match. But how do you put it all together to show its from the same car? Just curious.
Yes, that is a sticky situation. No vin on 68 fender tags, only body number. VIN and eng/trans numbers should match if original drivetrain survives. Only way to tie the shell/fender tag to the VIN/drivetrain is to have some original paperwork - like the buildsheet. This will be a tough one to work out. :popcrn:
Sounds like what I posted isn't an option then either if one cannot determine the VIN on the car.
Yeah, the 68's are funny like that. Without the broadcast sheet or some sort of hard proof, you would be hard pressed to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt a VIN tag belongs to your car. The fender tag is easy, but that is the item easiest to have remade and it still doesn't tie a VIN to that body number.
It has been mentioned before that certain law enforcement agencies actually can tie the VIN to the body/tag numbers.
Troy
Well, we agree with you for sure. The tags should have never left the body. I seriously doubt if you had anything to do with the tags and body being separated from, each other. The Feds don't like this kind of thing going on for sure. Whether or not they would like to destroy both tags and car or reunite them is something I don't know. I am sure a civil suit would be in order to straighten thing out. I hope you as an innocent party don't get hurt financially. The bottom line is someone did something illegal at one time and I'm sure the "man" could find out who. it may be too little of a deal to attract attention. The re bodied car may never surface again. Good luck. BTW if I were a judge(and I'm not) the vin tag and title would go back to the owner of the body.
Assuming there is a rebody of course. Typars, have you been searching at other forums too?
Just posting up the vin XS29J8B370074 for google reference purposes. From looking at the vin closer and adjusting with adobe lightroom, it looks like XS29J8D370074.
Quote from: fastmark on September 08, 2014, 04:26:54 PM
BTW if I were a judge(and I'm not) the vin tag and title would go back to the owner of the body.
I agree.
What actually happens I think really depends on "how" the title was sold. If the guy who sold the title and tags was the person named on the title, then that seller may have inadvertently sold this car at that time too. If the seller was not the named title holder (which I think is most likely) then I think the seller and title purchaser have a problem and typars is in better shape, so long as he has a bill of sale for the car from a valid owner. Either way it is messy and I hope typars is able to bring them all back together.
TYpars , charger is deffo fixable , wont be a quick job or cheep , unless you can do the work your self , from what I can see from the few pictures (UFO) found :bow: :cheers: :2thumbs: , all or most of the inner structure has been cut a way , good thing , if there is a good thing about it , most of that structure is normally pretty much rot free on a other wise rotted out body shell . simple to un pick all the spot welds , just time consuming . then with the added parts from AMD or good used panels .
just no point in starting anything till this vin / fender tag , title deal is sorted out . :brickwall:
while I really hope Typars , gets all the stuff back , I honestly think that the tags & title have been used to rebody another charger !! & being that its a hemi car , its in some ones private collection hidden away somewhere , & it wont see the light of day again for who knows :shruggy:
or its been rebodied & sold to another country .
if the rebodied charger turns up wearing Typars vin etc , think it will get messy , & be a lot of legal messing about , but Typars has the original car , & proof he bought it I would of thought , & dare say he will or should get the vin & fender tag back , but only after , lot of legal stuff , bit like recovered stolen property I would of thought :shruggy:
Quote from: tan top on September 08, 2014, 06:27:28 PM
TYpars , charger is deffo fixable , wont be a quick job or cheep , unless you can do the work your self , from what I can see from the few pictures (UFO) found :bow: :cheers: :2thumbs: , all or most of the inner structure has been cut a way , good thing , if there is a good thing about it , most of that structure is normally pretty much rot free on a other wise rotted out body shell . simple to un pick all the spot welds , just time consuming . then with the added parts from AMD or good used panels .
just no point in starting anything till this vin / fender tag , title deal is sorted out . :brickwall:
while I really hope Typars , gets all the stuff back , I honestly think that the tags & title have been used to rebody another charger !! & being that its a hemi car , its in some ones private collection hidden away somewhere , & it wont see the light of day again for who knows :shruggy:
or its been rebodied & sold to another country .
if the rebodied charger turns up wearing Typars vin etc , think it will get messy , & be a lot of legal messing about , but Typars has the original car , & proof he bought it I would of thought , & dare say he will or should get the vin & fender tag back , but only after , lot of legal stuff , bit like recovered stolen property I would of thought :shruggy:
You would think that someone who buys a hemi car would know there stuff enough to check the body numbers to make sure its not a rebody :shruggy: we're talking big money here.
If it was sold.
The hard part about buying a 1968 or earlier the body #s don't match the vin so you ether have to take the persons word or have it certified witch could take longer than most people would like to wait .
PS Still not wanting to spend a lot of money on the car till this mess is all cleared up but I went ahead and got a parts car ( shell ) with all the inner structure in great shape for only $400. I shure this might not make some happy but I intend on leaving the fender flairs on and going back with the same paint scheme.
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 08, 2014, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: tan top on September 08, 2014, 06:27:28 PM
TYpars , charger is deffo fixable , wont be a quick job or cheep , unless you can do the work your self , from what I can see from the few pictures (UFO) found :bow: :cheers: :2thumbs: , all or most of the inner structure has been cut a way , good thing , if there is a good thing about it , most of that structure is normally pretty much rot free on a other wise rotted out body shell . simple to un pick all the spot welds , just time consuming . then with the added parts from AMD or good used panels .
just no point in starting anything till this vin / fender tag , title deal is sorted out . :brickwall:
while I really hope Typars , gets all the stuff back , I honestly think that the tags & title have been used to rebody another charger !! & being that its a hemi car , its in some ones private collection hidden away somewhere , & it wont see the light of day again for who knows :shruggy:
or its been rebodied & sold to another country .
if the rebodied charger turns up wearing Typars vin etc , think it will get messy , & be a lot of legal messing about , but Typars has the original car , & proof he bought it I would of thought , & dare say he will or should get the vin & fender tag back , but only after , lot of legal stuff , bit like recovered stolen property I would of thought :shruggy:
You would think that someone who buys a hemi car would know there stuff enough to check the body numbers to make sure its not a rebody :shruggy: we're talking big money here.
yes you would of thought so , but !! anyone who has worked in a good body/ paint shop , knows what can be done , & someone with extensive Knowledge of mopars , who is a skilled body & paint guy , can do all sorts of stuff behind closed doors , that would fool lots of experts .
no offence meant to anyone :cheers: :cheers:
True that
7 pages and I gotta wonder, how is it even possible those items were sold...together..on a public site like eBay? I'm no expert, but that is some sketchy shit right there. My friend tried selling half a jar of peanut-butter and they took it down... How is it even possible?
Quote from: Patronus on September 08, 2014, 09:18:43 PM
7 pages and I gotta wonder, how is it even possible those items were sold...together..on a public site like eBay? I'm no expert, but that is some sketchy shit right there. My friend tried selling half a jar of peanut-butter and they took it down... How is it even possible?
TRUE THAT!
It happens fairly often on there actually.
Wow, cannot believe 8 pages, I personally do not believe Typars has any right to claim any status on said vehicle. Re body or not, I guess there is two sides of the coin here. If you had a car that, was of some value, however was in very rough shape, say well almost gone ie; wing car that came out of forest, a little more than a floor pan. Do you, put it back together or wright it off, wright it off, and the rest of the rest of the herd is now worth a little more. Put it back together is what I would do, only out of respect, it is a piece of our history!! Ok, so, the question becomes, panels versus Dynamark, I do believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, the original chassis with replacement panels, compared to a body in a box, would somehow be worth more due to the fact, it contains more correct original assembly parts and is original. But if, I decided to go the Dynamark way, and build the new shell with all the parts from the T/A, I have out back sitting in the weeds, owning that car and paying for the new shell. Then sending the old shell to scrap or sell it to the kid down the road because he has to have it. Regardless, who gets their hands on it after the fact, it is what it is. My old shell ,that I owned, that was sold to the wrecker as scrap, or the kid down the road as a parts shell, period... Typar did not coin up the actual money for a hemi car, and knew the car did not have a title, I would imagine he paid an appropriate price for that piece of lawn art, but that's all he's got
I'm sure the sky will rain bags of hammers on this one
To be fair, Typars has never indicated he was going to try and force the tags to be given to him. We should all step back and relax a bit, all the guy said was that he was offering a reward to help find them. Yes, there was a hint of a friend with federal connections helping find it and a guru who knows something but won't tell. Beyond that we don't know anything else. :shruggy:
Feds are really only interested in STOLEN cars, this is nothing more than tryng to resurrect a scrapped vehicle. The body shop industry spits car bodies on a regular bassis, there was no crime committed here, execpt for the person who owns that said hemi car now, who may up to this time think they had an original car.
Typars has never indicated he was going to force the tags to given to him
Really, then why is he actually here.......
It is like saying, well, I have a hemi hubcap........ you know where I'm going with that.
From the purist perspective, you have to thank Typars for revealing the truth of the new rebodied car. That is the best part of this club, you can run, but you can't hide, the 6 degrees of separation that this club has, makes it hard for some individuals to scam the general public.
:Twocents:
With all this talk about rebodies, I thought we meant using any other original Charger and slapping the hemi VIN on it, not getting a whole new body from Dynacorn.
Quote from: J.Bond on September 09, 2014, 08:03:32 AM
From the purist perspective, you have to thank Typars for revealing the truth of the new rebodied car. That is the best part of this club, you can run, but you can't hide, the 6 degrees of separation that this club has, makes it hard for some individuals to scam the general public.
:Twocents:
Without knowing typars, personally. This thread opens up a lot of doubt and specualtion. I myself is included in that speculation. However, Typars may be an honest guy with honest intentions. Or the latter. We really do not know. So unfortunately we pass judgment and we may be in the wrong or the right.
I beleive if he was more forthcoming with information ie: actual car pictures to date, true picture of the ebay ad, mopar guru whom is aware of this car, where this car was rebodied etc. That in itself would clear up a lot of speculation and doubt. Although it is his right to relay that or not.
Quote from: J.Bond on September 09, 2014, 07:27:05 AM
Wow, cannot believe 8 pages, I personally do not believe Typars has any right to claim any status on said vehicle. Re body or not, I guess there is two sides of the coin here. If you had a car that, was of some value, however was in very rough shape, say well almost gone ie; wing car that came out of forest, a little more than a floor pan. Do you, put it back together or wright it off, wright it off, and the rest of the rest of the herd is now worth a little more. Put it back together is what I would do, only out of respect, it is a piece of our history!! Ok, so, the question becomes, panels versus Dynamark, I do believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, the original chassis with replacement panels, compared to a body in a box, would somehow be worth more due to the fact, it contains more correct original assembly parts and is original. But if, I decided to go the Dynamark way, and build the new shell with all the parts from the T/A, I have out back sitting in the weeds, owning that car and paying for the new shell. Then sending the old shell to scrap or sell it to the kid down the road because he has to have it. Regardless, who gets their hands on it after the fact, it is what it is. My old shell ,that I owned, that was sold to the wrecker as scrap, or the kid down the road as a parts shell, period... Typar did not coin up the actual money for a hemi car, and knew the car did not have a title, I would imagine he paid an appropriate price for that piece of lawn art, but that's all he's got
I'm sure the sky will rain bags of hammers on this one
What you suggest is
ILLEGAL!!
DYNACORN bodies are legal as kit cars with "assembled/homebuilt" VINs/titles/paperwork.
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 09, 2014, 11:50:29 AM
What you suggest is ILLEGAL!!
DYNACORN bodies are legal as kit cars with "assembled/homebuilt" VINs/titles/paperwork.
In most states its not illegal to remove the vin from a vehicle for purposes of restoration. These laws differ by state regarding VIN attachment, and some require a verification and inspection process before the VIN gets reattached to the body.
This only applies if somebody actually follows the rules. Most will not....
Dynacorn bodies are licensed by GM, Ford, and soon to be Chrysler. It makes me wonder if a state will eventually consider the Dynacorn structure part of the restoration? Its an authentic restoration part, officially licensed and blessed by the original manufacturer so can it simply be considered merely a part amongst other parts (similar to AMD sheet metal licensed by Chrysler, Ford, and GM)?
It's becoming way to simple to use the engine, trans, rear axle, from a donor car, affix the VIN on brand spanking new metal body and call it "restored". How does anybody really know the difference? Many of us know.... but in states requiring inspection/verification during VIN reattachment, do the they all follow the same procedure 100% of the time...and know what they're looking for?
Dynacorn markets these bodies as "restoration parts". Obviously they know exactly how their bodies will be used, but side-step the issue with statements like "its up to the consumer to verify state laws regarding vehicle title". Any rebodied car should be identified as such of the title (similar to salvage titles issued here in Michigan). It could be as simple as issuing a title with a different color - who knows?
I'm totally against companies remanufacturing important and sacred (for documentation and authenticity purposes) items such as bodies, build sheets, door jamb stickers, fender tags, that are
virtually impossible to recognize as reproduction! This is not done for novelty .. there's nothing "novel" about people getting screwed on fake cars. :flame:
As per the Dynacorn website, they don't make a Charger...looks like original donor bodies/shells is all someone would have to work with.
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 09, 2014, 12:51:32 PM
As per the Dynacorn website, they don't make a Charger...looks like original donor bodies/shells is all someone would have to work with.
The Challenger body is delayed until 2015. The Charger body is unconfirmed but rumored to be in the works. We might be talking about this soon if a Charger body is on display at SEMA. :scratchchin:
I don't know why, but I've always been on the fence about the complete Dynacorn bodies, even though 50-60% of my car's sheetmeal will be replaced by repro and donor parts. Maybe I'm ok with the parts only because I know the other 50% of my car's shell is original (and it still has its VIN, body numbers, and tag).
Sorry for changing the direction of the thread...the thought just came to mind so I thought I'd share.
We're all going the same direction.... notice how typars is asking for "original" EDIT: not fake documentation to go back with his "original" body. :patriot: We'd flame anyone to death who came on here asking "where do I get a fake door jamb sticker, fender tag, and VIN plate made" for my rebodied Hemi Charger. :D
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 09, 2014, 01:16:40 PM
We're all going the same direction.... notice how typars is asking for "original" documentation to go back with his "original" body. :patriot: We'd flame anyone to death who came on here asking "where do I get a fake door jamb sticker, fender tag, and VIN plate made" for my rebodied Hemi Charger. :D
LOL. :popcrn:
Quote from: Troy on September 08, 2014, 01:41:30 PM
It has been mentioned before that certain law enforcement agencies actually can tie the VIN to the body/tag numbers.
Troy
That is the road to go down then. If there is such a database, it should be no problem to enter in the body number and get the VIN. The next step would be to search for that VIN in DMV records and see who had it last and if it is currently registered. If nothing else, you would have a firm VIN to be on the lookout for. If it is currently registered, let them do the dirty work.
Did anyone actually read the first post from typars? :shruggy:
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 03:43:14 PM
I am the owner of a true 1968 Hemi 4 speed Charger. Several years ago the VIN, fender tag , and title were sold on eBay by someone doing something they should not have done. I have solid proof that my car is the real deal for it still has all the body #s along with the torque boxes and K frame. I am willing to pay $ 1,000.00 US for the return of these items ( NO QUESTIONS ASKED ) The photos are from the eBay ad
Thanks for your help
If I recall some of the grammar & English I had to take in grade school, "for the return of these items" implies that he wants them back as if he had owned them in the first place. Now if he was offering $1000
for these items then I'd see it differently.
I have a broadcast sheet for a Coronet R/T convertible that was in my Coronet 500. Maybe I should have the FBI track that car down so
it can be returned to me. :lol:
8 pages and no current pictures of the car? :scope:
Imagine you're the unknowing owner of what you think is an original hemi and then you see this thread...OMG I would be upset
cant blame the guy for wanting the original stuff for his car. I hope he finds it myself.
Typars has a viable body that can restored... I've seen far worse restored.
The only question remains whose "property" the original VIN, Tags, Etc., belong to ? That's for WHATEVER parties to figure out...
in the meanwhile...
I'll keep an ear to the ground, just because I personally like the right tags etc., back on the right body.
X2 :2thumbs: (and just say no to Dynacorn)
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 09, 2014, 12:25:18 PM
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 09, 2014, 11:50:29 AM
What you suggest is ILLEGAL!!
DYNACORN bodies are legal as kit cars with "assembled/homebuilt" VINs/titles/paperwork.
In most states its not illegal to remove the vin from a vehicle for purposes of restoration. These laws differ by state regarding VIN attachment, and some require a verification and inspection process before the VIN gets reattached to the body.
..and in some places, if the transfer of these plates and serial coded tid bits is done in the presence of and with the cooperation of law enforcement, it can legally be called restored.
Such an action does impact the value as those cars that can be demonstrated to be original or have very solid histories always command more money than potential rebodies and extensively restored cars.
To further validate that point.... That's why there's people out there making fake fender tags and broadcast sheets that are virtually undetectable from original. THERE'S NO REASON FOR THAT AT ALL! :flame:
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 10, 2014, 10:13:38 PM
To further validate that point.... That's why there's people out there making fake fender tags and broadcast sheets that are virtually undetectable from original. THERE'S NO REASON FOR THAT AT ALL! :flame:
Yes their is---and that reason is why it sucks. :icon_smile_wink:
Does anybody feel as though people become a member on DC.com and their first post starts a thread like this one to raise a bunch of eyebrows then disappears. Makes me wonder if the OP actually has the car he is claiming to own or just wanted to stir up the minds of the Charger community. :flame:
Quote from: Moparpoolman on September 13, 2014, 08:08:19 AM
Does anybody feel as though people become a member on DC.com and their first post starts a thread like this one to raise a bunch of eyebrows then disappears. Makes me wonder if the OP actually has the car he is claiming to own or just wanted to stir up the minds of the Charger community. :flame:
Did you read the thread ? He's been back . I do wish he'd would show us some recent pics though.
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on September 13, 2014, 08:12:02 AM
Quote from: Moparpoolman on September 13, 2014, 08:08:19 AM
Does anybody feel as though people become a member on DC.com and their first post starts a thread like this one to raise a bunch of eyebrows then disappears. Makes me wonder if the OP actually has the car he is claiming to own or just wanted to stir up the minds of the Charger community. :flame:
Did you read the thread ? He's been back . I do wish he'd would show us some recent pics though.
:iagree:
I did read this thread in it's entirety and have also noticed the only pictures we have seen are other peoples pics from other sources like ebay, I think everyone would like to see a current pic from the OP. :shruggy:
Where's the FBI report? :whistling:
There was a recent article on this months MUSCLE CAR REVIEW page 15, October issue.
A '64 Ford Galaxy 427 was sold at auction with paperwork being an authentic R-code....a rare piece of Ford racing history.
After a series of professional inspections, it was determined to be a fake. The current owner got an attorney specializing in VIN fraud and tracked down several owners through title searches. Finally they locked onto the owner who bought it with an original "P" engine code on the title. Every title thereafter had the "R-code" in the title, Essentially all the subsequent owners got screwed into paying huge money for a fake car.
Its an interesting read on who can collect damages.
EACH person can sue each subsequent owner/seller for damages in this case....all the way down the line until it finally reaches the person who actually "did it". Yep, that's right folks, you may be an innocent victim and still be sued for fraud. :police:
He's not a villain and he's not a troll. He's just a guy who would like to, if possible, reunite a car with it's tags and if he can't he's still into the car.
:iagree:
Guys think about it this way, ....If somehow down the line a certain Black 1968 Hemi Charger is located wearing those tags, and fraud can be proven in court ...then our OP is a hero for calling him out - right?
That would be some justice! :patriot:
Again, :iagree:
If the guy that bought the Vin & Title still has it in a envelope, couldn't he sue or take to court the original poster or current person in possession of car (car body, race car, trunk lid Vin # or whatever he has or posses) & have car returned to Title owner? LEON. :scratchchin: :shruggy: :Twocents:
I would think so.
I think it depends on how he bought it. If he bought the title, vin, etc. from the guys whose name was on the title, then yes. I would say that could definitely happen. If he bought it from anyone else then it is a big mess and I think the argument is between OP and last title holder. Guy who bought the title may have a claim against guy who sold it to him just as if OP loses car to the guy who bought the title, OP would have a claim against the guy who sold him the car (assuming it hasn't been too long by that time).
My money is on the guy who bought the title did not buy it from the title holder in which case it is a mess but OP is in a better position.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 13, 2014, 04:39:31 PM
If the guy that bought the Vin & Title still has it in a envelope, couldn't he sue or take to court the original poster or current person in possession of car (car body, race car, trunk lid Vin # or whatever he has or posses) & have car returned to Title owner? LEON. :scratchchin: :shruggy: :Twocents:
It would be a
BAD move if the person in possession of the title & tags pictured above were to start legal proceedings toward obtaining the remains of the original body as they knowingly purchased title & tags without the body and to suggest otherwise, in court, would be perjury.
It would be interesting to know what year the ebay auction happened. If less than a year, its likely no car was built around those tags yet....and a search would turn up nothing. Assuming its longer and rebody is already in the works, it could still take many months or even years for the car to wear that VIN...and become searchable on a database.
The OP has not added any further info...makes one wonder if he just was interested in stirring the pot or is sitting back :rofl:
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 13, 2014, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 13, 2014, 04:39:31 PM
If the guy that bought the Vin & Title still has it in a envelope, couldn't he sue or take to court the original poster or current person in possession of car (car body, race car, trunk lid Vin # or whatever he has or posses) & have car returned to Title owner? LEON. :scratchchin: :shruggy: :Twocents:
It would be a BAD move if the person in possession of the title & tags pictured above were to start legal proceedings toward obtaining the remains of the original body as they knowingly purchased title & tags without the body and to suggest otherwise, in court, would be perjury.
:iagree: Having an old car with no title or vin is not illegal if its not on the road. Removing a vin and slapping it on a completly different car is.
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 13, 2014, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 13, 2014, 04:39:31 PM
If the guy that bought the Vin & Title still has it in a envelope, couldn't he sue or take to court the original poster or current person in possession of car (car body, race car, trunk lid Vin # or whatever he has or posses) & have car returned to Title owner? LEON. :scratchchin: :shruggy: :Twocents:
It would be a BAD move if the person in possession of the title & tags pictured above were to start legal proceedings toward obtaining the remains of the original body as they knowingly purchased title & tags without the body and to suggest otherwise, in court, would be perjury.
Maybe guy that purchased Title & Vin tag# was lied too & told the car body did not exist any longer as it was scraped? when in reality it never was? Then what happens :scratchchin: :shruggy: LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 13, 2014, 07:12:56 PM
Maybe guy that purchased Title & Vin tag# was lied too & told the car body did not exist any longer as it was scraped? when in reality it never was? Then what happens :scratchchin: :shruggy: LEON.
I'm convinced that's what happened here Leon.
Quote from: typars on September 08, 2014, 05:35:08 AM
Still not certain the tags got sold alone on eBay or with the car. all I have is a photo of the items from an eBay auction. Tags should have never left the car is all I'm saying.
Thanks for the help guys
I was talking to a friend that saved the info from the ebay ad that ran about 2003, at that time the ad was for the Car and VIN tags all together as a package with a title but the tags were displayed off the car laying on top of the title. The pics that are posted in this thread are from that ebay ad that was for the car, title and tags together. So there was no wrong doing unless there was a second ebay auction later in time selling only the tags.
Typars, When and how did you get this car? From a friend? From a scrap yard? Ebay? Craigslist? and what paperwork did you get with it? Bill of sale with no vin?
Pictures of the cut up racecar & the question "How can I figure out what this car WAS based on the body numbers?" was asked on Moparts by a "friend" of the current owner a few months ago (core support & trunk rail numbers intact).
I put 2 & 2 together on Moparts.
The best guess "eBay" pics are date "stamped" 12/17/03 (picturetrail watermark icon in lower right) - I don't believe this is accurate, I have a dead hard drive with lots of "lost" pics from this era. :'(
I decoded the fender tag (for my own amusement) 7/25/09 while sorting pics on my computer, but probably close to the time frame when the pics were "I ASSUME" on eBay.
I have "copies" of the pics dated 4/20/11 & 12/15/11 (excessive back-ups, due to lost info paranoia) :hah:
The "eBay" pics of the fender & VIN tags also showed a pic of the trunk rail number. :scratchchin:
Not everyone lives on Dodge-Charger & has the tools to post pics, just food for thought! :brickwall:
& if the eBay auction was 2003 - someone may have sent me some of the tags/title/trunk rail pics around '09. :shruggy:
I didn't see any pics of the body until a few months ago on Moparts.
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 13, 2014, 08:01:29 PM
The best guess "eBay" pics are date "stamped" 12/17/03 (picturetrail watermark icon in lower right) - I don't believe this is accurate,
I think 2003 is correct from what I found
From my earlier post: I was talking to a friend that saved the info from the ebay ad that ran about 2003, at that time the ad was for the Car and VIN tags all together as a package with a title but the tags were displayed off the car laying on top of the title. The pics that are posted in this thread are from that ebay ad that was for the car, title and tags together. So there was no wrong doing unless there was a second ebay auction later in time selling only the tags.
Let's see if Shaggy and Scooby got this right.... :D
The first transaction was for the title, tags, VIN plate and body. The car was sold as a package deal with its complete set of original documentation (as it should be)... in 2003 off ebay.
Then later....the owner decides to liquidate the body from the original ebay package deal. Typars comes on the scene to buy the body around 2009 or later - sans documentation because Typars already said he bought car without any original docs. Do we assume he bought it from the guy who had them...but never told him?
Pass me a Scooby Snack! :frog:
I've been following this along and tend to think the holder of the "documentation" has the ""car"". It's hard to agree to this :eek2:
This is a good case for documentation to be proper.
However my instinct still tells me when this situation played out the players new they were getting near the edge of ethical.
In this particular case because it's a hemi car is the reason we are even talking about it. Since that is a fact-- originality and documents are key to future additional value. Also in this case if the pieces of metal we saw in the pictures belonged to the vin tag and title (tough to prove) and were to be reunited into a finished car it would rank IMO rather low in value as a collectible. [non original engine built from frame restored hemi car].
If I was a buyer and looking at buying/investing in a rare car and learned that I was buying a vin tag with wheels I would pass or take it as a fun car to drive the crap out of. (little real historical value to me).
It's true that as time passes and the current collectors pass on :eek2: the future value of the rare cars will become more confined to good complete examples.
I say lets not get caught up in zombie cars now because that is speculation for another time to come. :Twocents:
Quote from: ws23rt on September 13, 2014, 08:38:37 PM
This is a good case for documentation to be proper......It's true that as time passes and the current collectors pass on :eek2: the future value of the rare cars will become more confined to good complete examples.
Another reason to put an end to fake broadcast sheets, VIN tags, Fender tags, fake titles, YOU NAME IT!
There's no good reason for any of this shit to look so damn good. It can (and will) fake people....even some experts. I stand firmly that any copies, knock-offs, novelties, reproductions, whatever the hell they're called be made with a logo to represent them as what they are - a duplication of the original.
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 13, 2014, 08:45:19 PM
Another reason to put an end to fake broadcast sheets, VIN tags, Fender tags, fake titles, YOU NAME IT!
There's no good reason for any of this shit to look so damn good. It can (and will) fake people....even some experts. I stand firmly that any copies, knock-offs, novelties, reproductions, whatever the hell they're called be made with a logo to represent them as what they are - a duplication of the original.
:2thumbs: We agree again. And the reason of course is that any faking if documents dilutes the value of these cars for everyone.
To have to go through a gauntlet of checking authenticity is already the worst part of the hobby and it will get worse.
The bad guys are making all of us take our shoes off to pass forward. :slap:
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 13, 2014, 08:15:44 PM
Let's see if Shaggy and Scooby got this right.... :D
The first transaction was for the title, tags, VIN plate and body. The car was sold as a package deal with its complete set of original documentation (as it should be)... in 2003 off ebay.
Then later....the owner decides to liquidate the body from the original ebay package deal. Typars comes on the scene to buy the body around 2009 or later - sans documentation because Typars already said he bought car without any original docs. Do we assume he bought it from the guy who had them...but never told him?
Pass me a Scooby Snack! :frog:
And then, Typars finds out that the documents were recently sold by the guy he bought the car from, or Typars finds out the documents have recently made their way onto another car. So, he starts this thread last week to get the Charger community to look out for that VIN, and maybe the person using that vin will come across this thread and think they may prefer 1k then driving a fake that Charger lovers may spot.
This is complete speculation, but if this what Typars did, its pretty smart considering a hemi will be scrutenized more then a "regular" charger. I would NEVER by a VIN only, but i had and saw a thread like this about the VIN I had just bought, I'd be crapping my pants. I myself will never look at a 68 hemi (if i ever see one in person) and not think about this thread.
What about making a fake VIN tag for an imaginary car? Lets say you built a Charger convertible or a Monaco ranchero or a four door Barracuda for example and you had the ability to create a fake VIN for it that looks like the real deal, would that be bad. :D
Quote from: Ghoste on September 14, 2014, 06:35:15 AM
What about making a fake VIN tag for an imaginary car? Lets say you built a Charger convertible or a Monaco ranchero or a four door Barracuda for example and you had the ability to create a fake VIN for it that looks like the real deal, would that be bad. :D
Haha Chrysler are palming off 4 door sedans as Chargers.
Is that bad?
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 13, 2014, 10:07:05 PM
I myself will never look at a 68 hemi (if i ever see one in person) and not think about this thread.
:iagree:
I prefer to call out the OP. It has not been back. It has no photos. It just dropped the vin-bomb and left. My belief is it is as sketchy as it's story.
This thread is a great example for not messing with VINs in any way, shape, or form. Somebody will find out....eventually. :Twocents: :Twocents:
The same applies to buildsheets, door jamb decals, fender tags, window stickers, "fake" dealership documentation.
....the list goes on and on. :icon_smile_dissapprove:
TYPARS, you log in here everyday to see what is being written in this thread. Why don't you MAN UP and answer some questions posted here.
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 14, 2014, 08:45:28 AM
This thread is a great example for not messing with VINs in any way, shape, or form. Somebody will find out....eventually. :Twocents: :Twocents:
The same applies to buildsheets, door jamb decals, fender tags, window stickers, "fake" dealership documentation.
....the list goes on and on. :icon_smile_dissapprove:
EXACTLY!!!
Hope ya find it!
Whoa whoa whoa...so you're telling me dude bought that(!) car...with no title,no vin plate, and no fender tag...
Probably should have worn a helmet more :Twocents:
Working on resizing photo. Should be up today.
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Thanks for willing to post current pix :cheers:
Quote from: Patronus on September 14, 2014, 09:49:49 AM
Whoa whoa whoa...so you're telling me dude bought that(!) car...with no title,no vin plate, and no fender tag...
Probably should have worn a helmet more :Twocents:
Where did the picture of the car go?
It was there. It was a black '68 like the Bullet car with an older 65-66 belvedere drag car next to it on a flatbed...
Something fishy going on... :drunk:
Quote from: Patronus on September 14, 2014, 05:39:24 PM
It was there. It was a black '68 like the Bullet car with an older 65-66 belvedere drag car next to it on a flatbed...
Something fishy going on... :drunk:
I saw the same photo of the black 68 Charger r/t next to a belvedere drag car. :popcrn:
I saw it too. If that bullitt look alike and the drag car seen earlier in the thread are the same car, that's one hell of a restoration.
I think it was a joke. :icon_smile_wink:
I saw the pics also and I do not think it was typars that posted them
No That was not me. Still working on getting mine posted. Computer savvy I am Not.
Well that is very strange. There was a pic posted. I saw it. Figured I'd take a better look a it later. Then later it was gone. If that was a joke then I will admit that don't get it.
Looking forward to seeing the pics typars. If you are having trouble feel free to send them my way and I will resize them and post them for you (someone made me the same offer when I first got on here).
If you can't figure out how to size and post a picture, you can still post some answers to questions like When and where did you get the car body from and what type of paperwork did you get with it?
I really don't care if all Typars has is in the way of a Photo is two rotten quarter panels, a roof, no floors at all, half the firewall, and a partial rad support, like I said before.... if it is the "Body" with a stamping or two..... in whatever poor condition that matches those Tags, VIN, etc..... I have seen WORSE restored ... I think we all have ?
So I will keep an eye out in my travels, because I believe those TAGS, etc... should go back on THAT BODY.
I just do NOT agree with the re-pop Fender tags, wannabe reproduction Broadcast Sheets, Sales Sheet Blah, blah crap goin on !
just my opinion.... Sorry for yelling.
Quote from: Challenger340 on September 14, 2014, 08:52:33 PM
because I believe those TAGS, etc... should go back on THAT BODY.
:iagree: Finally after 10 pages its summed up in a half a sentence.
Quote from: Davtona on September 14, 2014, 09:06:13 PM
Quote from: Challenger340 on September 14, 2014, 08:52:33 PM
because I believe those TAGS, etc... should go back on THAT BODY.
:iagree: Finally after 10 pages its summed up in a half a sentence.
I feel like that has been one of the themes of the entire thread. I think it has been said a number of times and I venture to say that I think everyone who has posted on this thread believes that the car and tags should be reunited.
The question is a) finding the tags and b) once the tags are found, who gets the reunited package. The second question is one that no one here can answer with the info that we have.
This thread is worthless without PICS!!!! :-\
but computer saavy enough to get internet at your home, buy a computer, know how to turn on it, type in DC.com, register, and start posting madly about your hemi charger.... :2thumbs:
I don't know what is going on here and don't know Typars from Adam. I end to take people at their word until given good reason not to.
It does seem like a while to figure it out, but that depends on how motivated he is, who knows. I will say it took me a while to figure out how to resize a pic to get it on here. And now that I know how my method is kind of a pain to do it.
PHOTOBUCKET....or FLICKR.... :lol:
http://www.resizeyourimage.com/
Never had to use one of these sites before. Took 3 minutes to figure it out and test. Just sayin' :laugh:
Quote from: familymopar on September 14, 2014, 09:10:38 PM
The question is..... who gets the reunited package.
I think that's the Ten Million dollar question! :think:
I'm starting to believe that there are more holes in Typars story than in the radiator support of "wildfire". The facts so far are the car with tags was on ebay in Dec. 2003 with a reserve not met and then the car and tags with title was back on ebay from the same seller in June 2004. The next 10 years are still in question. Typars????got any answers?
Its been 12 days since the first post. If I was going to ask the DC.com community to help find the documentation to a VERY RARE HIGH DOLLAR car, I would have had the detailed story and pictures ready to go from the beginning. :Twocents:
Quote from: Patronus on September 14, 2014, 05:39:24 PM
It was there. It was a black '68 like the Bullet car with an older 65-66 belvedere drag car next to it on a flatbed...
Something fishy going on... :drunk:
Guys Guys...It was me, confusion is all my fault. I thought Typars had left and just (as usual) just started posting pictures to keep the thread alive/have fun. Once I saw Typars was back and the thread was still relevant I pulled picture and edited my comments to avoid confusion...too late.
Was just a random Google search for a '68 black charger...funny thing is I can't find it now??
No problem AK, ....it just adds to the mystery! :cheers:
Quote from: AKcharger on September 14, 2014, 09:52:04 PM
Quote from: Patronus on September 14, 2014, 05:39:24 PM
It was there. It was a black '68 like the Bullet car with an older 65-66 belvedere drag car next to it on a flatbed...
Something fishy going on... :drunk:
Guys Guys...It was me, confusion is all my fault. I thought Typars had left and just (as usual) just started posting pictures to keep the thread alive/have fun. Once I saw Typars was back and the thread was still relevant I pulled picture and edited my comments to avoid confusion...too late.
Was just a random Google search for a '68 black charger...funny thing is I can't find it now??
Well then at least one mystery has officially been solved by this thread!
IDK I get a bad vibe from the whole thing. Bad JuJu
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 14, 2014, 09:50:44 PM
Its been 12 days since the first post. If I was going to ask the DC.com community to help find the documentation to a VERY RARE HIGH DOLLAR car, I would have had the detailed story and pictures ready to go from the beginning. :Twocents:
I have been and am still trying to give Typars every benefit of the doubt. But you're right. Pictures aside (for the moment) it is strange that he does not want to tell us anything about the transaction or anything else. There are some real simple questions here: when did you get it, where did you get it, etc.
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 13, 2014, 08:01:29 PM
Pictures of the cut up racecar & the question "How can I figure out what this car WAS based on the body numbers?" was asked on Moparts by a "friend" of the current owner a few months ago (core support & trunk rail numbers intact).
This is interesting. It was just a few months ago? I am pretty sure that Typars knew he had a 1968 Hemi Charger. I guess the friend could have been looking for more than that.
OK...time to clear the air a little bit and to hopefully help Typars post a picture. Here's a pic of the car from last month. I am the 'friend' that posted pictures on Moparts for Typars a month or 2 ago. At that time, Typars had no idea documentation existed. 6bblgt provided some pics of the documentation that he had on file in a response to the Moparts thread I posted. Again...no idea documentation existed up until 6bblgt spoke up just recently. There is no conspiracy here. Take off your tin-foil hats. Typars is a guy that works his ass off for a living, has several project cars, and finally got the Charger out of the shed after more than a few years of sitting. He does not live on the computer & has many other interests in life. I will also attest to his lack of computer abilities. :yesnod: His career involves a skilled trade, not being a keyboard commando like most of us.
Yes, this is my first post on DodgeCharger.com. I am the one that suggested that he look into this forum since it is strictly Dodge Chargers. I have been on Moparts since 2003, so search your heart out on there for my posts if you want to question my background or whatever some of you people do to pass your time. :popcrn: Additionally, I never had a reason to come onto this forum in the past, for I do not own a Charger. :cheers:
(Post was edited to correct the popcorn and cheers gifs... :2thumbs:)
Scott
Quote from: Indygenerallee on September 14, 2014, 09:55:07 PM
IDK I get a bad vibe from the whole thing. Bad JuJu
Some Good JuJu just appeared. ^^^
Quote from: BluesCuda on September 14, 2014, 10:01:14 PM
OK...time to clear the air a little bit and to hopefully help Typars post a picture. Here's a pic of the car from last month. I am the 'friend' that posted pictures on Moparts for Typars a month or 2 ago. At that time, Typars had no idea documentation existed. 6bblgt provided some pics of the documentation that he had on file in a response to the Moparts thread I posted. Again...no idea documentation existed up until 6bblgt spoke up just recently. There is no conspiracy here. Take off your tin-foil hats. Typars is a guy that works his ass off for a living, has several project cars, and finally got the Charger out of the shed after more than a few years of sitting. He does not live on the computer & has many other interests in life. I will also attest to his lack of computer abilities. yesnod His career involves a skilled trade, not being a keyboard commando like most of us.
Yes, this is my first post on DodgeCharger.com. I am the one that suggested that he look into this forum since it is strictly Dodge Chargers. I have been on Moparts since 2003, so search your heart out on there for my posts if you want to question my background or whatever some of you people do to pass your time. popcrn Additionally, I never had a reason to come onto this forum in the past, for I do not own a Charger. cheers
Scott
Is that the car now? Looks like about the same condition as the photos posted earlier in this thread. That is still a heck of a lot of car.
EDIT: I just saw you said the photo was one month ago.
Thanks Blues...
And Tylar we are here to help...we all LOVE chargers but understand there are kooks out there. On multiple occasions People have "found" all kinds of cars and people here are happy to help and offer all kinds of help and advice only to find the entire story was a farce. Some people just like to be trolls
I like it, looks bad ass. If it is redone it needs to be done exactly back like this!!! paint scheme and all!! :2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
Quote from: Indygenerallee on September 14, 2014, 10:14:46 PM
I like it, looks bad ass. If it is redone it needs to be done exactly back like this!!! paint scheme and all!! :2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
That's what Typars said he was gonna do! And I agree!
a perfect candidate for the MCACN barn find exhibit :coolgleamA:
Quote from: BluesCuda on September 14, 2014, 10:01:14 PM
OK...time to clear the air a little bit and to hopefully help Typars post a picture. Here's a pic of the car from last month. I am the 'friend' that posted pictures on Moparts for Typars a month or 2 ago. At that time, Typars had no idea documentation existed. 6bblgt provided some pics of the documentation that he had on file in a response to the Moparts thread I posted. Again...no idea documentation existed up until 6bblgt spoke up just recently. There is no conspiracy here. Take off your tin-foil hats. Typars is a guy that works his ass off for a living, has several project cars, and finally got the Charger out of the shed after more than a few years of sitting. He does not live on the computer & has many other interests in life. I will also attest to his lack of computer abilities. :yesnod: His career involves a skilled trade, not being a keyboard commando like most of us.
Yes, this is my first post on DodgeCharger.com. I am the one that suggested that he look into this forum since it is strictly Dodge Chargers. I have been on Moparts since 2003, so search your heart out on there for my posts if you want to question my background or whatever some of you people do to pass your time. :popcrn: Additionally, I never had a reason to come onto this forum in the past, for I do not own a Charger. :cheers:
(Post was edited to correct the popcorn and cheers gifs... :2thumbs:)
Scott
hello & welcome Scott ( BC ) :cheers: , thanks for posting the picture & info :cheers: :2thumbs:
Quote from: familymopar on September 14, 2014, 10:04:20 PM
Quote from: BluesCuda on September 14, 2014, 10:01:14 PM
OK...time to clear the air a little bit and to hopefully help Typars post a picture. Here's a pic of the car from last month. I am the 'friend' that posted pictures on Moparts for Typars a month or 2 ago. At that time, Typars had no idea documentation existed. 6bblgt provided some pics of the documentation that he had on file in a response to the Moparts thread I posted. Again...no idea documentation existed up until 6bblgt spoke up just recently. There is no conspiracy here. Take off your tin-foil hats. Typars is a guy that works his ass off for a living, has several project cars, and finally got the Charger out of the shed after more than a few years of sitting. He does not live on the computer & has many other interests in life. I will also attest to his lack of computer abilities. yesnod His career involves a skilled trade, not being a keyboard commando like most of us.
Yes, this is my first post on DodgeCharger.com. I am the one that suggested that he look into this forum since it is strictly Dodge Chargers. I have been on Moparts since 2003, so search your heart out on there for my posts if you want to question my background or whatever some of you people do to pass your time. popcrn Additionally, I never had a reason to come onto this forum in the past, for I do not own a Charger. cheers
Scott
Is that the car now? Looks like about the same condition as the photos posted earlier in this thread. That is still a heck of a lot of car.
EDIT: I just saw you said the photo was one month ago.
:yesnod: still the real J code charger IMO , tags or not :yesnod:
Everyone is happy now, right?
Typars/Scott: is there any indication as to where the tags may have gone (state/country)? This may help narrow the search.
p.s. thanks for finally adding some details and pics. I really like the vintage racer look on that one
Blues cuda, this is a quote from you from another thread about the car
"I know the current owner does not have the documentation, for he is a good friend of mine. He wanted a period-correct drag car purely to have fun with, but has too many other projects in front of it at the moment. He picked the car up from a mutual friend. That friend pulled it from behind a repair shop south of St. Louis, MO probably around 8 years ago if I had to guess. I can say with confidence that friend would not have withheld that documentation. (A very respected and well-known Mopar family in the St. Louis metro area.)
The car appears to have been campaigned out of the Hendersonville, NC area judging by the washed out lettering. How it ended up south of St. Louis, MO is a mystery at this point. "
"Pulled it" does not sound like "bought it" or "purchased it", any comments on that :shruggy:
Pulled it......
Very bad, choice of words.
They almost had me with the pic, however, first thing comes to mind, that car was not that far gone, and for sure, should have gone back together....
Now that I hear...., pulled it, were the tags pulled from the car to keep them and the car safe from thieves, while parked outside, and if the car went missing from behind that shop in early 2004, may the original owner at the time may have thought someone stole the car for scrap money?
Scooby-doo thinks theres still something that isn't right here...
Ruh Roh.... time for more Scooby Snacks? :frog: Gosh I hope not! :D
Really ? He bought the car and pulled it out from the spot it was sitting with a truck. Not a van or a car or a mini bike it was a truck. And no it was not sitting next to a gunman on a grassy knoll in Dallas.
Real J code car or not, without the original drivetrain present, it is not worth restoring it concours. However, in the condition as it sits, it should be restored back to the racer it once was, I would think it would look Badazz that way. You mentioned earlier you had all the other parts and I guess you mean the grille, interior, suspension, etc. Those are nice to have and saves money but they do not verify the originality of a J code or any code charger.
I agree with everyone here the legal docs must stay with the body. Rebodies, Dynacorn bodies, reproducing(build sheets, fender tags, etc.) is illegal and should be dealt with appropriately. You either have it or you do not, period. If you do not have those items than you willingly purchased said car knowing that. If there is any mischief than a lawyer and the authorities are there to handle that, period.
Quote from: moparnation74 on September 15, 2014, 08:32:52 AM
Real J code car or not, without the original drivetrain present, it is not worth restoring it concours. However, in the condition as it sits, it should be restored back to the racer it once was, I would think it would look Badazz that way.
Exactly ^^^^
Quote from: J.Bond on September 15, 2014, 07:26:50 AM
Pulled it......
Very bad, choice of words.
They almost had me with the pic, however, first thing comes to mind, that car was not that far gone, and for sure, should have gone back together....
Now that I hear...., pulled it, were the tags pulled from the car to keep them and the car safe from thieves, while parked outside, and if the car went missing from behind that shop in early 2004, may the original owner at the time may have thought someone stole the car for scrap money?
Good Lord people. Seriously? Some of you read into things WAY too much. I "pulled" my car out of the driveway this morning when leaving the house. Does that mean I removed the VIN tag, etc from my daily driver this morning? NO. I "pulled" the car out of the driveway. It's just that simple. And you know what? I'll be 'pulling' the car back into the driveway when I return home this afternoon. (Rant off...still shaking my head at some of the posts on this thread. I understand people can and will be skeptical, but c'mon. :brickwall:)
From what I gather, it is not known when, how or why the car ended up south of the St. Louis metro area. What 'IS' known is the fact a mutual friend 'pulled' the car from the repair shop when they obtained it. How they were made aware of the car, I do not know. In general, car enthusiasts in the St. Louis area buying and selling an old Mopar -or- people looking for, or knowing about old Mopars being for sale come to this friend and their family when they hear of such. It could be a case of somebody saying 'Hey, there's an old Mopar sitting down the road from my house. Go check it out.' It's just that simple. Was it purchased for cash, livestock, or traded? I have no clue, for quite frankly it is not my business to ask. I am very confident in saying they had NOTHING to do with removing any documentation from this car, for they are well aware of the legalities and ethical ramifications that come along with that topic. With that said, I found a picture of the car that I snapped in 2008 right after Typars purchased it and stored it at a friends place while he made room in his shed. Using that timeline, I'd say the car was 'discovered' again that same year, for Typars purchased it not long after it was obtained by the mutual friend.
So...the years between the car being sold in the Carolinas during 80's and 2008 is unknown, or muddy at best. I now say muddy, for it is now known somebody advertised it on whatever website +/- 10 years ago with the documentation already removed. Who that was and what geographic location is not known. Where the passenger door ended up is a mystery as well. It appears to still on the car when it was advertised by whomever.
Again, sorry for the initial rant in this reply. The internet in general can be very frustrating with armchair quarterbacks and people that pump their chests to inflate their egos or self-worth. Thus the reason I do not post on Moparts as much. :Twocents:
I have to get back to work, so I will not be back on this forum until later today or tonight. :cheers:
Scott
As far as I can see, there is no story here. A guy bought a rolling shell that may or may not have been a real j code. Someone sold a vin plate, fender tag and title on ebay that may or may not have been original to this car. Unless he can find a car masquerading as his car, everyone got what they paid for and no laws have been broken. I find it interesting that he is crushed when people question his veracity but automatically assumes whoever has the vin, fender tag and title is a crook. :Twocents:
Quote from: hawkeye on September 15, 2014, 12:02:20 PM
As far as I can see, there is no story here. A guy bought a rolling shell that may or may not have been a real j code.
Based on his first few pictures which include the fender tag, it probably is a real J code.
Quote from: hawkeye on September 15, 2014, 12:02:20 PM
Someone sold a vin plate, fender tag and title on ebay that may or may not have been original to this car. Unless he can find a car masquerading as his car, everyone got what they paid for and no laws have been broken. I find it interesting that he is crushed when people question his veracity but automatically assumes whoever has the vin, fender tag and title is a crook. :Twocents:
I don't remember him saying the buyer of the VIN is a crook. But, why would someone buy a VIN, tag, and TITLE to a hemi car if they didn't plan on using it? Removing the VIN and selling it, regardless on the condition of the car, should be illegal if it's not already. Buying one to use on another car should be as well. If the car becomes unusable, then the VIN, tag, and title should be unsuable as well. :Twocents:
If I were the owner I'd spend that $1K reward on replacing the title. Unless it's a 1/4 mile at a time that thing ain't gonna hit the street without it. I dig the car, great find. In the end, you have the car. I don't think whomever owns the paper can take it. Where are you as far as filing for a replacement?
"I don't remember him saying the buyer of the VIN is a crook."
I guess the part about "no questions asked" kind of gave it away. And I agree, the guy that bought the stuff on ebay is probably up to no good, but Typars is in no way entitled to the ebay items just because he bought the shell, for any amount of money. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that Typars found this rebodied hemi car. Who are the authorities going to believe, some one with the title, vin tag and fender tag with some restamped sheet metal or some one with a old rusty shell?
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 15, 2014, 12:41:02 PM
Quote from: hawkeye on September 15, 2014, 12:02:20 PM
As far as I can see, there is no story here. A guy bought a rolling shell that may or may not have been a real j code.
Based on his first few pictures which include the fender tag, it probably is a real J code.
Quote from: hawkeye on September 15, 2014, 12:02:20 PM
Someone sold a vin plate, fender tag and title on ebay that may or may not have been original to this car. Unless he can find a car masquerading as his car, everyone got what they paid for and no laws have been broken. I find it interesting that he is crushed when people question his veracity but automatically assumes whoever has the vin, fender tag and title is a crook. :Twocents:
I don't remember him saying the buyer of the VIN is a crook. But, why would someone buy a VIN, tag, and TITLE to a hemi car if they didn't plan on using it? Removing the VIN and selling it, regardless on the condition of the car, should be illegal if it's not already. Buying one to use on another car should be as well. If the car becomes unusable, then the VIN, tag, and title should be unsuable as well. :Twocents:
I truly think that the tags were never sold separately on ebay BUT along with the car, I have seen hard copies printed from DEC 2003 and JUNE 2004 that the car and the tags were advertised together. Does anybody have an ebay auction documented that show ONLY the tags being sold?? It sounds to me that the body was taken from someone that had the car in one place and the tags in safe keeping and possibly going to restore it one day. Now how would you report your car stolen if the Vin tags were not on it?? I would think that Typars should know if he had a transaction for the car. I also think that if Typars bought it from a friend, the friend would know if there was a transaction from where he got the car. It seems as though the KEY players in this deal don't know much about any transactions, Why is that???
On another note, I have a mopar project in the works that is a bare shell, the dash is on a shelf, the drivers door is on another shelf, and the fender tag and build sheet are in a filing cabinet. If the car were to go missing the authorities wouldn't be much help because the VIN isn't on it. yea there is still the sequence number on the cowl and rad support but not a whole vin.
I think things are starting to come together.
Let me say first to Typars (and Scott aka BluesCuda) that I don't think anyone here has meant any offense or is wearing tin foil hats. We got a bare bones story to start with and were left with little more, although Scott has chimed in with some useful photos and info. People on this site seem to love a good mystery, and you gave us one. In truth, what you presumably came here looking for is a large network of charger lovers to keep an eye out for this tag, that I can assure you is being done by all posters and likely many more, all over the states, and maybe the world. While there has been some speculation by some, I don't think anyone thinks Typars did anything wrong, I certainly don't. And I think everyone really does want to help. I certainly do.
So this is where it is at as far as I can tell. Typars believed that the vin, title, and fender tag were sold in an "envelope sale" on ebay:
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 03:43:14 PM
I am the owner of a true 1968 Hemi 4 speed Charger. Several years ago the VIN, fender tag , and title were sold on eBay by someone doing something they should not have done.
This info and associated pics came to Typars by way of 6bblgt:
Quote from: BluesCuda on September 14, 2014, 10:01:14 PM
At that time, Typars had no idea documentation existed. 6bblgt provided some pics of the documentation that he had on file in a response to the Moparts thread I posted. Again...no idea documentation existed up until 6bblgt spoke up just recently.
6bblgt says the ebay pics also included a pic of the trunk rail number, which would be odd if one were only buying the docs:
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 13, 2014, 08:01:29 PM
The "eBay" pics of the fender & VIN tags also showed a pic of the trunk rail number. :scratchchin:
But Moparpoolman, or his friend, has copies of the same pics from a 2003 or so ebay ad that included the docs and the car:
Quote from: Moparpoolman on September 13, 2014, 08:01:22 PM
at that time the ad was for the Car and VIN tags all together as a package with a title but the tags were displayed off the car laying on top of the title. The pics that are posted in this thread are from that ebay ad that was for the car, title and tags together. So there was no wrong doing unless there was a second ebay auction later in time selling only the tags.
And we have no reason to think there was a later ebay ad, except that 6bblgt thinks that the ad may have been newer and the time stamps are incorrect. But if there was a later ad it used the same photos. And 6bblgt says it is possible that someone just sent him these pics later in time:
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 13, 2014, 08:07:15 PM
& if the eBay auction was 2003 - someone may have sent me some of the tags/title/trunk rail pics around '09.
Based on all this, I think for now it is a safe place to start by believing there was a single ebay ad. That ad happened sometime around 2003. It used these photos we now see and it was for the car and the docs. There was no envelope sale associated with those photos on ebay (although it is possible that someone purchased the package on ebay, was mailed the docs, and never retrieved the car?).
So the ebay ad happened around 2003. Typars, we now know, bought the car in 2008:
Quote from: BluesCuda on September 15, 2014, 09:08:36 AM
I found a picture of the car that I snapped in 2008 right after Typars purchased it and stored it at a friends place while he made room in his shed.
This only leaves a 5 year window. Typars has no history of the car between the 80's and 2008, but most of that time does not matter. Aparently the car and docs were together in 2003 on ebay.
Blues Cuda says the car was rediscovered by someone he trusts and it was very close in time to when Typars bought it:
Quote from: BluesCuda on September 15, 2014, 09:08:36 AM
What 'IS' known is the fact a mutual friend 'pulled' the car from the repair shop when they obtained it... Typars purchased it not long after it was obtained by the mutual friend.
The below statement seems to no longer be the case, according to Moparpoolman: (EDIT: actually I guess this is true, but the tags and car were together)
Quote from: BluesCuda on September 15, 2014, 09:08:36 AM
for it is now known somebody advertised it on whatever website +/- 10 years ago with the documentation already removed.
So in 2003 the car and tags are listed together. Sometime shortly before 2008, Blues Cuda's trusted mopar friends rediscover the car behind a shop, pull it out, and sell it to Typars. (I'm not getting in to the semantics of it being "pulled out", I very well may have said that the exact same way and reading anything into it is digging a bit for something not there).
I would say the place to start looking for those docs is the shop the car was pulled out from behind. If they do not have them then I would ask them where and when they got the car. If it was after 2003, and the bought it on ebay, then they should have the docs. If it was before 2003 then the ebay ad should have been theirs.
There may be no clone car at all. This stuff may have been pulled off for safe keeping while the car was out back in a field, and they were just forgotten about and not given over at some point.
This does not explain an experts unwillingness to discuss the car:
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 03:52:16 PM
Another thing leading me to believe that someone has cloned it is a certain so called expert refuses to talk about the car. Go figure.
But as we all know these experts will not discuss the results/veracity of ANY car. That info, according to them, is the property of the person paying the expert and is held confidentially and only the client can reveal findings. So maybe that unnamed expert was simply saying "I don't discuss clients cars", i.e. I don't know if that is a client's car or not, but I need not waste my time looking for you because if it is I will not tell you anything about it.
My bet is that the shop has it. Or had it, if it is no longer around.
EDIT: for grammar and spelling
Shop is a dead end. Seems it might have belonged to a former employ, No one at the shop seems to recall.
Get a list of employees and start making calls
Quote from: typars on September 15, 2014, 02:03:42 PM
Shop is a dead end. Seems it might have belonged to a former employ, No one at the shop seems to recall.
The car may have belonged to a former employee? Who sold your friends (the local mopar people) the car? The shop or the former employee? if that was only in 08 and this was not their first time doing this, certainly they have a bill of sale on the car. The could lead you to the previous owner.
That is your best lead. I don't think the tags were sold separately on ebay. So in 03/04 they were together. Then you are there in 08. The answer is in that shop or the former employee. He may not even realize/remember he has it.
Quote from: familymopar on September 15, 2014, 01:36:40 PM
In truth, what you presumably came here looking for is a large network of charger lovers to keep an eye out for this tag, that I can assure you is being done by all posters and likely many more, all over the states, and maybe the world.
Someone's gonna get "noticed" if a Black 68 Hemi Charger with gold interior ever crosses my path. :nono:
I'm starting to think the documents for the car are not that far away from where the car sits now.
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 15, 2014, 02:26:50 PM
Quote from: familymopar on September 15, 2014, 01:36:40 PM
In truth, what you presumably came here looking for is a large network of charger lovers to keep an eye out for this tag, that I can assure you is being done by all posters and likely many more, all over the states, and maybe the world.
Someone's gonna get "noticed" if a Black 68 Hemi Charger with gold interior ever crosses my path. :nono:
That, I think, was Typar's goal in coming here. And like I said, there is no doubt that anyone around here would immediately have their suspicion raised by seeing a car like that.
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 15, 2014, 02:34:27 PM
I'm starting to think the documents for the car are not that far away from where the car sits now.
I agree. I don't think they were intentionally separated. A previous owner has them. Either the shop, or the employee of the shop, or the owner before that. But there can't be too many as it is not that big of a time window and the car seems t have a habit of sitting for awhile wherever it goes.
I guess I had assumed this had been done, but the very first thing to do at this point, since we have reason to believe there was no envelope sale, is to go down to the Missouri DMV and do a title search on the vin. I do it all the time and it's no big deal. If nothing turns up there do the same thing for N. Carolina. The former employee of the shop may have transferred the title to himself. And even if he didn't, Typars needs to know who the last person to title the car was and when it was done.
I think it should be displayed with the vintage Dick Landy found race car Charger. :scratchchin: LEON.
A lawyer friend of a friend is looking into both states right now. I can say that the last person that had tags for the car ( this body ) was the employee of the body shop. He drove and street raced the car for several years before turning it into a race car.
Quote from: Dreamcar on September 15, 2014, 12:41:02 PM
I don't remember him saying the buyer of the VIN is a crook.
He called in his friend with the FBI.
Actions speak louder than words.
There's no conspiracy here, or chest pumping, or inflated ego in this story and all the responses. It is now, has been, and still remains, all about the money.
And that's still ok. :Twocents:
Quote from: typars on September 15, 2014, 03:17:19 PM
A lawyer friend of a friend is looking into both states right now. I can say that the last person that had tags for the car ( this body ) was the employee of the body shop. He drove and street raced the car for several years before turning it into a race car.
This is why everyone has been asking for more info.
If the employee of the shop had it registered in MO then he had the title in MO. If he is the guy that sold the car to your mopar friend in 08 (who quickly transferred it to you), then there is little left for mystery, he has the title.
Now, if he left the job, and left the car there taking the docs with him and the shop sold the car title-less to your mopar friend, there may be some trouble.
This seems beyond simple enough at this point.
1) You need to run a title check in MO, that your lawyer friend is apparently doing (it literally takes 5 minutes);
2) You need to get the bill of sale from your mopar friend who passed the car to you and verify it is his name on the bill of sale.
If he had it tagged, registered and on the road, he has the title.
Now the 2009 stuff gets interesting. If 6bblgt's hunch is right about the reappearance of the same photos on ebay in 2009, maybe employee realized car was gone and sold tags (if shop sold it) or realized he had them and sold them (if he sold it). Either way, that guy's name, which should literally be simple to find now, is your key.
Wait, when was it last registered and on the road? The car looks like a lot of car for the "I found a hemi racer in a field" but does not look like a car that has seen the road in any reasonably recent past.
How do you know the last tags were the employee of the body shop? What is the date of last registration?
According to the relative of the body shop employ ( the one that has given me all the Original sheet metal and seats ) the car never had headlights or bumpers on it and the interior was completely gutted. it looked a lot back then as it dose now.
This should have been late 70s or early 80s. He bought the car off a used car lot around 1975.
Quote from: typars on September 15, 2014, 04:28:22 PM
According to the relative of the body shop employ ( the one that has given me all the Original sheet metal and seats ) the car never had headlights or bumpers on it and the interior was completely gutted. it looked a lot back then as it dose now.
Quote from: typars on September 15, 2014, 04:30:16 PM
This should have been late 70s or early 80s. He bought the car off a used car lot around 1975.
Ahh, well that makes sense.
And let me say, this info keeps trickling out from you that is very helpful.
SO... you know who the relative of the body shop employee is? Which means you already know his name. And can find him easy enough. But no one there recalls the car? Including the relative? If it was tagged by him ever we know he had the title. Get the bill of sale from your middleman (the mopar family people) and you are on your way.
Either employee has the title and tags or he sold them. But he is your key.
And the employee's relative is the one that gave you the sheet metal? Which means that he is this guy?
Quote from: typars on September 02, 2014, 04:22:58 PM
iv been unable to fill in some of the blanks of the Chargers life. Have talked with several people that had lots to do with the car back in the 70s and 80s and even came up a person that has all the original sheet metal that was removed to make it a race car. But from the 90s till now is a mystery.
And they have had it since at least 75
Quote from: typars on September 15, 2014, 04:30:16 PM
He bought the car off a used car lot around 1975.
Sounds like the mystery of where it was and what it was doing between 75 and now is pretty well figured too.
Quote from: hawkeye on September 15, 2014, 12:02:20 PM
As far as I can see, there is no story here. A guy bought a rolling shell that may or may not have been a real j code. Someone sold a vin plate, fender tag and title on ebay that may or may not have been original to this car. Unless he can find a car masquerading as his car, everyone got what they paid for and no laws have been broken. I find it interesting that he is crushed when people question his veracity but automatically assumes whoever has the vin, fender tag and title is a crook. :Twocents:
I had posted a similar response on page 2 in this thread in regards to typars knowingly purchasing the car without tags & title, then simply expecting that these be given to him.
If the intent is to out someone who is planning, or has put Hemi tags on another car, then that's fine, but I don't see it that way here. I see someone who has purchased a basket case, Hemi car without it's tags & title very cheap, & now expects to benefit from it without effort. Posting about lawyers & FBI investigations also indicates that there is monetary interest over all other reasons. If the original intent was "I bought it mainly because it was a bad ass looking racecar and I love 68s." then a state VIN tag & title is all you need.
Hey familymopar....Damn, you're good! :2thumbs: You could be Jim Rockford! :icon_smile_wink:
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 15, 2014, 05:04:42 PM
Hey familymopar....Damn, you're good! :2thumbs: You could be Jim Rockford! :icon_smile_wink:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JKSkmM68WRw/UX_rk8lTkiI/AAAAAAAACqI/Y4DtmNVmsAs/s400/rockford-files.jpg)
I've been reading all along but what's not clear to me is if the car was in either North or South Carolina when it appeared on ebay in 2004, where was the shop that typar's friend got it from, in the carolinas? or in the St. Louis, MO area?
Quote from: Y1CHARGER on September 15, 2014, 05:56:24 PM
I've been reading all along but what's not clear to me is if the car was in either North or South Carolina when it appeared on ebay in 2004, where was the shop that typar's friend got it from, in the carolinas? or in the St. Louis, MO area?
Maybe this might help, it was from an earlier post I made,
Blues cuda, this is a quote from you from another thread about the car
"I know the current owner does not have the documentation, for he is a good friend of mine. He wanted a period-correct drag car purely to have fun with, but has too many other projects in front of it at the moment. He picked the car up from a mutual friend. That friend pulled it from behind a repair shop south of St. Louis, MO probably around 8 years ago if I had to guess. I can say with confidence that friend would not have withheld that documentation. (A very respected and well-known Mopar family in the St. Louis metro area.)
The car appears to have been campaigned out of the Hendersonville, NC area judging by the washed out lettering. How it ended up south of St. Louis, MO is a mystery at this point. "
Just to add, maybe the MYSTERY of how it got to MO is that someone bought it off ebay in 2004 that lives in MO. :cheers:
What state is the car in now?, I know that some states can issue a brand new VIN number if the vin numbers are mixed and matched or missing which seems to be a good idea in this case seeing that the OP wants to keep it as a drag car, then it can be registered if wanted.
Quote from: Moparpoolman on September 15, 2014, 06:14:28 PM
Just to add, maybe the MYSTERY of how it got to MO is that someone bought it off ebay in 2004 that lives in MO. :cheers:
Not if the employee of the St. Louis repair shop bought it off a used lot in 1975, and his relative, a current employee of the same shop is one of the ones who helped make it a racer and had the original sheetmetal and parts.
OP said it was campaigned as a racecar in NC, then it was resold by a used car lot in MO around 1975.....
So if I'm following this correctly, the car already had the "racecar conversion thing" going on.... but nowhere near as radical as the "wildfire" transformation that came after being sold in 1975.
The current "Wildfire" identify came while being owned and raced by the body shop employee living in MO. This is the same guy who bought it from the used car lot in 1975. After its retirement from racing, the body shell sat behind the same body shop building where (1975 owner) converted it into "wildfire" while working there.....and after all these years, this is the only known history until typars came into the picture with his friend. ???
It would be interesting to see if anyone remembers it from the pre-1975 race days, or post 1975 racing days... Not that it matters in regard to this VIN/title issue, but still an interesting part of history.
Who cares why Typars wants the title and tags? Maybe he wants to restore it, maybe he likes that it will be worth more money, maybe he is just a collector of mopar things. So what. We don't know what Typars paid for it and it doesn't matter. Is the idea that he got such a good deal on it that he should not look for the docs he now knows exist and reunite them with the car? If so, that is silly.
I'd venture to say there aren't many of us who, having bought a carcass, for the price of a carcass, and then found out that there were these docs, wouldn't be trying to get them or wishing we had them. And so what. Of course he should look for them. If he wasn't we'd be complaining about that. I don't get this line of reasoning at all.
He can, of course, always fall back on a new state issued vin and title. But a) we all know that is not the same value (see above), and b) there would still be an ex-employee of a repair shop in St. Louis who has this car titled to him.
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 15, 2014, 05:04:42 PM
Hey familymopar....Damn, you're good! :2thumbs: You could be Jim Rockford! :icon_smile_wink:
Thanks Tufcat, but I didn't really do anything. Between the posts of 6bblgt, Moparpoolman, and the OP himself, all I did was point out the obvious.
Quote from: familymopar on September 15, 2014, 07:00:06 PM
Thanks Tufcat, but I didn't really do anything. Between the posts of 6bblgt, Moparpoolman, and the OP himself, all I did was point out the obvious.
Not everyone has that ability....I've certainly been lost (more than a few times) in this thread... :P
No No No Body shop in NC Repair shop in Mo
Quote from: typars on September 15, 2014, 09:57:54 PM
No No No Body shop in NC Repair shop in Mo
Ok, but you believe the former employee of the repair shop in MO bought the car off a used lot in or around 75, correct?
No Employ of the body shop in NC
You purchased this car knowing there was no documentation, correct? Who is the mopar guru familiar with this car?
Quote from: moparnation74 on September 15, 2014, 10:04:34 PM
Who is the mopar guru familiar with this car?
Good question.
Ok then when you and I were posting earlier I think there was some confusion. So, you bought the car from some St.Louis family known in the local mopar world. They pulled the car from a shop in or around St. Louis in 2008. You need their bill of sale. When and where did the St. Louis shop get it???
All the history I know about the car is from North and South Carolina after that is when it gets foggy. And like I said before I'm not going to drag his name into this not knowing his story on things. That's not going to help me at all and only cause more speculation. Like we need that.
Quote from: typars on September 15, 2014, 10:10:58 PM
All the history I know about the car is from North and South Carolina after that is when it gets foggy. And like I said before I'm not going to drag his name into this not knowing his story on things. That's not going to help me at all and only cause more speculation. Like we need that.
Why don't you give this "guru" a call and find out his story? Why would that not help you? Or have you called and he told you to piss off?
i would be calling and calling everyone and everything associated with this car.
Quote from: typars on September 15, 2014, 10:10:58 PM
All the history I know about the car is from North and South Carolina after that is when it gets foggy. And like I said before I'm not going to drag his name into this not knowing his story on things. That's not going to help me at all and only cause more speculation. Like we need that.
I understand what you're saying. I think someone here may know him, he may jump on here, etc. and it may help, but I understand your position as far as the expert goes.
BUT here is the question I have. So you bought this car from a mutual friend (with blues cuda) in MO. That mutual friend dragged it out from behind a shop in MO. So the mopar folks you got the car from you guys know. So go ask them. Seriously, I'm not getting this. If these folks are friends and are well known local mopar people then you need to go to them and say "Hey well known local mopar friend people, remember that car you sold me in 2008, may I see / have a copy of the bill of sale from when you purchased that car?" Surely if they are the big mopar people around they have that bill of sale.
The car had title and tags in 2003. You got the car in 2008. With all the talk about "rediscovering" the car in 2008 and "pulling it" out from behind the shop, I think the assumption is fair that it had been at this MO shop for a bit. The only question is, was it there in 2003. And we are back where we started today. Either that shop had the car in 2003 and listed it on ebay with the docs or they didn't and they know where it came from.
Forget the confusion about the ex employee guy.
1) Go to local mopar people / friends, get bill of sale, check name on bill of sale
2) Go to MO shop with that bill of sale and find the guy who signed it
3) Repeat
4) Run vin in NC and MO DMV, again, a 5 minute process
The key here is the Moparpoolman revelation: there was no envelope sale. The car and docs were offered together in 2003. You bought it in 2008 with no docs. Armed with that info, you should be able to find those docs. You may not get them, but you can find them.
Quote from: moparnation74 on September 15, 2014, 10:26:56 PM
Quote from: typars on September 15, 2014, 10:10:58 PM
All the history I know about the car is from North and South Carolina after that is when it gets foggy. And like I said before I'm not going to drag his name into this not knowing his story on things. That's not going to help me at all and only cause more speculation. Like we need that.
Why don't you give this "guru" a call and find out his story? Why would that not help you? Or have you called and he told you to piss off?
i would be calling and calling everyone and everything associated with this car.
I'm pretty sure Typars implied he got the "piss off". I'd call the expert out no problem, but that's me. I think it could be helpful.
Correct. Feet need to hit the pavement on this one. Phone buttons should be getting worn out. Like it or not, we ARE "armchair quarterbacks" and do not really have the ability to be anything else. We don't have the info Typars has. He has to get after it.
It is not that much ground to cover. Move backwards 2008-2003. When you get to 2003, which may only be one person down, may be more, but when you get there, that guy had the docs in 2003.
Quote from: familymopar on September 15, 2014, 10:39:36 PM
Quote from: typars on September 15, 2014, 10:10:58 PM
All the history I know about the car is from North and South Carolina after that is when it gets foggy. And like I said before I'm not going to drag his name into this not knowing his story on things. That's not going to help me at all and only cause more speculation. Like we need that.
I understand what you're saying. I think someone here may know him, he may jump on here, etc. and it may help, but I understand your position as far as the expert goes.
BUT here is the question I have. So you bought this car from a mutual fried (with blues cuda) in MO. That mutual friend dragged it out from behind a shop in MO. So the mopar folks you got the car from you guys know. So go ask them. Seriously, I'm not getting this. If these folks are friends and are well known local mopar people then you need to go to them and say "Hey well known local mopar friend people, remember that car you sold me in 2008, may I see / have a copy of the bill of sale from when you purchased that car?" Surely if they are the big mopar people around they have that bill of sale.
The car had title and tags in 2003. You got the car in 2008. With all the talk about "rediscovering" the car in 2008 and "pulling it" out from behind the shop, I think the assumption is fair that it had been at this MO shop for a bit. The only question is, was it there in 2003. And we are back where we started today. Either that shop had the car in 2003 and listed it on ebay with the docs or they didn't and they know where it came from.
Forget the confusion about the ex employee guy.
1) Go to local mopar people / friends, get bill of sale, check name on bill of sale
2) Go to MO shop with that bill of sale and find the guy who signed it
3) Repeat
4) Run vin in NC and MO DMV, again, a 5 minute process
The key here is the Moparpoolman revelation: there was no envelope sale. The car and docs were offered together in 2003. You bought it in 2008 with no docs. Armed with that info, you should be able to find those docs. You may not get them, but you can find them.
:iagree: What is the name of this shop in MO? This shop is the main in-between stop for this car and the documents missing, supposedly.
97810Racetracks around Hendersonville, NC back in the 60's/70's?
Expand Messages
Acrrcr@aol.comAug 3, 2011
Guys-
I have a friend that is trying to track down some information on a '68 Hemi Charger that he picked up a few years ago. It's an old race car that is supposed to have come out of the Hendersonville, NC area.
Originally a black '68 Charger R/T w/ a Hemi & 4spd, now just a rolling shell that has been swiss-cheesed extensively over the years and the quarters flared out. It was called "Wildfire".
Anybody hang out around the racetracks local to Hendersonville, NC back in the late 60's/early 70's and recognize this car? It sat just south of St. Louis, MO for several years, so I am not sure when it made its journey from the east coast. It was sitting literally a couple miles from my house and I did not even know it.
Thanks for any insight. Here are some pictures of the car as it sits today. Not the greatest pictures, but it's the best I can do right now.
The current owner just wants to know the history of the car and if there are any stories out there about it. I know Reed is on the Stock/SS group, so I hope he sees this posting.
Scott
St. Louis, MO
See more posts from Acrrcr@aol.com
I did a google search of: hendersonville, nc wildfire race car. And found the above posting dated 8/3/2011.
Looks like I may have the answer he needs.......
:popcrn:
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on September 15, 2014, 11:31:21 PM
Looks like I may have the answer he needs.......
I'm not sure I follow...?
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on September 15, 2014, 11:31:21 PM
Looks like I may have the answer he needs.......
I hope this isn't a prank. :nono:
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on September 15, 2014, 11:31:21 PM
Looks like I may have the answer he needs.......
Are you going to enlighten us all, based on your statement above?
Really? Still nothing?
Good, we have the answer!
:popcrn:
I certainly am glad that's over!
Now let's see more of that race car!
over ! what was the answer ,did I miss something :shruggy:
Yah, I'm a little confused now too :shruggy: What answer is there?
I don't think there is an answer, not here anyway. 1974dodgecharger said he may have the answer, followed that with some tantalizing elipses, and then radio silence. Maybe he in-boxed the OP, or maybe he just hasn't gotten back on.
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
:scratchchin: :shruggy: :slap:
I'm hoping 1974dodgecharger has dug up some new details.... We'll have to see what his cliff-hanger reveals. :popcrn:
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 16, 2014, 04:20:27 PM
I'm hoping 1974dodgecharger has dug up some new details....but busy at work or something. :shruggy: It's weird to post a cliff-hanger then leave.
I agree! He was on here last night for a good while after I asked for clarification but maybe he did not come back to this thread. And like I said, maybe he PM'd OP the info and that's that.
This thread reminds me of the 70 v code a/c car thread, a lot of unanswered questions that could easily be answered by the key players. :shruggy: Would make me hesitate on giving up useful info if I had it. :icon_smile_big:
1974dodgecharger is an upstanding member and been here a long time ...I plan to take it easy on him if it was a joke. :patriot:
I agree. But it just doesn't seem like a joke. Maybe he is looking into something or maybe it was something he wanted to tell Typars privately. Who knows. He'll come back.
I did facebook him a few hours ago to tell him he was killing us over here. I have not heard anything from him.
hmmmm :scratchchin:
I'm ready, lets do this!
So anyway,
Ty have you contacted the local folks you got the car from to ask them if they have the bill of sale?
I thought this was a "spot the answer" thread, sorry
I don't think there is an "answer". And I really doubt now that those tags are on another car that we can keep an eye out for. I think Typars is just gonna have to do some bactracking to find them. Luckily he doesn't have to go too far.
you guys cant be serious......................................
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on September 15, 2014, 11:31:21 PM
Looks like I may have the answer he needs.......
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on September 16, 2014, 10:15:04 PM
you guys cant be serious......................................
:shruggy: :shruggy: :shruggy:
Well, there you go.
This thread is like renting a movie from redbox. :popcrn:
This one came to mind ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_qa6swnOM
Step right up folks and spin the wheel...round and round it goes..... where It stops nobody knows. :D
Quote from: 70 sublime on September 17, 2014, 07:52:18 AM
This one came to mind ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_qa6swnOM
:2thumbs: Perfect choice!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/OldMoparz/Moving%20GIFS%204/TapeMeasureCat_zps0e85d7cc.gif)
:scratchchin:
This was a picture taken in 2008 and posted recently on moparts by bluescuda. At the beginning of this thread typars posted a picture of the stamping on the trunk lip. Is it just me or does these areas look completely different? In this picture on the driver side trunk floor there is a piece of a pipe attached, in the stamping pic it is not present. I do remember typars saying he purchased it and stored it, untouched.
Furthermore, why are pictures being posted from 2008?
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 17, 2014, 02:40:10 PM
:scratchchin:
Love that picture :2thumbs: Saw it some years back. One of my favorites.
Based on the trunk shot...Is it possible the car might have been blue at one time? :scratchchin:
Quote from: ws23rt on September 17, 2014, 07:35:52 PM
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 17, 2014, 02:40:10 PM
:scratchchin:
Love that picture :2thumbs: Saw it some years back. One of my favorites.
Looks like TUFCAT in that pic :girlfight: :pushup:
Is anybody talking to Typars or Blues cuda privately or did they loose interest with this topic???
No ex parte conversations on my end....
Wait for it...
Have not had time to get back on for a wile. Iv got lots going on with work, home, and my daughter. That photo from 2008 is of my car and it must be the photo making it look blue but trust me all you will find is Black and gold paint ( and some trunk rot ).
And no one has tried to contact me directly.
Quote from: typars on September 18, 2014, 06:32:36 PM
And no one has tried to contact me directly.
Ty have you tried to contact the local family that you got the car from?
I asked him a wile back and he was going to go through the files. If he got one or not I don't know. They have at any given time 300- 500 Mopars.
To sort the time line out better.
Car was bought off used car lot in NC in 75
New owner ( lets call him Chuck ) worked at a body shop then in NC
car was street raced as a complete car for a few years.
wile still working at body shop it was turned into Wildfire The lettering was done by a person out of Ashville NC This was in the late 70s or early 80s.
All the work and the driving was done by both Chuck and his cousin Jerry.
Car never got running that well at eventually was traded for an A-100 with a Hemi in it That was in either NC or SC but I think it stayed in NC.
I have placed a call to the person that had the A-100 but cant seem to catch up with him. All this was before the 90s
Then it was sold on eBay in 2003 from an unknown person in an unknown state to an unknown person we think in Mo.
Then some time in 2008 it was bought from a person at mechanic shop in Mo.
DELETED to not upset anyone
QuoteThere were two phone numbers listed in the ebay auction for sickmoparfreak . NOW GUYS, let Typars make the calls, a flood of calls to these numbers will probably just piss off sickmoparfreak.
Then why didnt you just PM Typars that info!?? :slap:
[sickmoparfreak.[/quote] Then why didnt you just PM Typars that info!?? :slap:
[/quote]
Exactly, my thought. This information is personal and private in nature and should have been PM'd to Typars. Whether you believe this thread or not. Have some respect for all parties.
I changed my post. I thought you guys wanted to be kept in the loop but I don't need the criticism, Sorry if I offended anyone, I thought you guys would control yourselves but I guessed wrong. I'll PM him. If you guys do feel that way you should take it out of your post too
Y1, ...that was the best information this thread ever had!
Quote from: Y1CHARGER on September 18, 2014, 09:18:28 PM
I changed my post. Sorry if I offended anyone, I thought you guys would control yourselves but I guessed wrong. I'll PM him. If you guys do feel that way you should take it out of your post too
Thanks for removing that!
The info removed by Y1 basically stated the "infamous eBay auction" for the Vin and title ended in Dec, 2003 without meeting reserve.
It was ultimately relisted and sold in June 2004 for $11,000. The eBay seller was located in South Carolina.
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 18, 2014, 09:33:55 PM
The info removed by Y1 basically stated there was the infamous eBay auction for the Vin and title ended in Dec, 2003 without meeting reserve.
It was relisted sold in June 2004 for $11,000. The eBay seller was located in South Carolina.
In June 2004, The CAR, title, fender tag, and dash VIN plate were at $11000.00 with reserve met but two days left in the auction, I don't know the end dollar amount.
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Well hey that is great info! I did not see Y1's original post, but if it had contact info for the guy who listed the car out of SC in 2003, and sold it out of SC in 2004, then that is a gold mine for Typars! Get after it Typars!
Quote from: moparnation74 on September 18, 2014, 09:10:42 PM
Whether you believe this thread or not.
After investing about 60 seconds on the internet I believe I can say that Typars is a real dude, he has a real job, he is not new to mopars. I don't believe there are any ulterior motives here, and I don't think there is any reason to doubt him. There is nothing funny going on here.
Quote from: familymopar on September 18, 2014, 10:53:13 PM
I don't believe there are any ulterior motives here, and I don't think there is any reason to doubt him. There is nothing funny going on here.
The "funny" stuff happened 10 years ago!
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 18, 2014, 10:56:50 PM
The "funny" stuff happened 10 years ago!
No kidding. And Typars is doing pretty much what I think most of us would be doing in his position - trying to find those tags!
And just to be clear about my last post, I used a quote from moparnation74 because it fit with what I wanted to say. But I think it likely that moparnation74 was saying that in reference to others on this thread who have wondered if Typars was who he said he was, doing what he said he was doing. I do not think moparnation74 himself was questioning Typars or his truthfulness. It may have been ill advised to use his quote out of context to get my point across.
Quote from: Y1CHARGER on September 18, 2014, 09:42:17 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 18, 2014, 09:33:55 PM
The info removed by Y1 basically stated there was the infamous eBay auction for the Vin and title ended in Dec, 2003 without meeting reserve.
It was relisted sold in June 2004 for $11,000. The eBay seller was located in South Carolina.
The $11000.00 was reserve met with two days left in the auction, I don't know the end dollar amount.
Was the sale for the VIN and title
ONLY , -- or --
was the sale for the
CAR , VIN, and title as a
package?
:popcrn:
I'm on it. Or at least I will be Monday when I get home.
I hope the info i gave u helped out.....
I hope so also Thank You
The Ebay auction was a listing for the CAR, Title, Fendertag(off the car), And Dash Tag(off the car). I'm positive I read this info earlier in the thread from another member. I don't understand why some members keep changing the info around to make it sound as though it was just the docs. were sold without the car, that is not what happened in 2004?? :shruggy:
Quote from: Y1CHARGER on September 19, 2014, 06:40:42 AM
The Ebay auction was a listing for the CAR, Title, Fendertag(off the car), And Dash Tag(off the car). I'm positive I read this info earlier in the thread from another member. I don't understand why some members keep changing the info around to make it sound as though it was just the docs. were sold without the car, that is not what happened in 2004?? :shruggy:
Good info once again. :2thumbs:
Quote from: Y1CHARGER on September 19, 2014, 06:40:42 AM
The Ebay auction was a listing for the CAR, Title, Fendertag(off the car), And Dash Tag(off the car). I'm positive I read this info earlier in the thread from another member. I don't understand why some members keep changing the info around to make it sound as though it was just the docs. were sold without the car, that is not what happened in 2004?? :shruggy:
High probability this car was rebodied based on that statement above.
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on September 19, 2014, 05:59:43 AM
I hope the info i gave u helped out.....
Is there a "Re-Body" out there somewhere ?
Yes or No.
I'm thinking yes. I first thought yes, and then it seemd like no but now the evidence is leading me back to yes. :lol: :shruggy:
Quote from: Ghoste on September 20, 2014, 08:49:59 AM
I'm thinking yes. I first thought yes, and then it seemd like no but now the evidence is leading me back to yes. :lol: :shruggy:
:iagree: my thoughts exactly.
Quote from: Ghoste on September 20, 2014, 08:49:59 AM
I'm thinking yes. I first thought yes, and then it seemd like no but now the evidence is leading me back to yes. :lol: :shruggy:
Me three.... I just can't see what other type of "info" 1974dodgecharger may have had that would be relevant ?
After like 14 or 15 pages my Jerry Springer side wants to know ?
Quote from: Challenger340 on September 20, 2014, 10:19:24 AM
I just can't see what other type of "info" 1974dodgecharger may have had that would be relevant ?
I think 1974dodgecharger may be yanking our chains
Quote from: Challenger340 on September 20, 2014, 08:46:57 AM
Is there a "Re-Body" out there somewhere ?
Yes or No.
I think it is just as likely that the tags and title are sitting in the safe/desk/some safe place of the the guy who bought the car off ebay in 2004, who may or may not be the guy that the local St. Louis mopar family got the car from in 2008.
Quote from: Ghoste on September 20, 2014, 08:49:59 AM
I'm thinking yes. I first thought yes, and then it seemd like no but now the evidence is leading me back to yes. :lol: :shruggy:
I'm not seeing it. What is the evidence that there may be a re-body? Short of the fact that the tags are not on the car, which has not changed....
It seems like they were sold without the car. :shruggy:
Quote from: Ghoste on September 20, 2014, 11:17:19 AM
It seems like they were sold without the car. :shruggy:
I'm not sure how it seems like that. 6bblgt, moparpoolman, and now Y1 seem to be the only folks that saw the ebay ad. All of them (well, I'm not reading all back through this at the moment, but at least the latter 2 and I think all 3) say the ad went up in 2003 for the car and tags, did not sell, and went up again, all together, in 2004, and did sell. There is nothing on this thread to let us believe anymore that the ebay ad was for tags alone. The ebay ad was for all of it. So it all went from SC to MO in 2004. Then, just 4 short years later. Ty buys the car without the tags.
My bet is whoever bought all of it off ebay stuck the tags in a "safe" spot and they just didn't carry on with the car.
Find the guy who sold the car and tags on ebay from SC (which Ty now has that info) --> find the ebay buyer in MO --> find whoever is in the middle, if anyone --> then there is the St. Louis mopar family, friends of Ty and Scott --> then Ty.
I think this will find the tags.
I personally think the only way your gonna find those tags are on another Charger somewhere, Even if you do get a hold of the guy that sold it and question him onif the car had it's tags he could say "oh yeah sure did" when in reality he sold them off.
At the time this car would undergo a full resto, AMD was not around. All we had was goodmark and that other group all that was available was valences, 1/4 skins, trunk pan's the split version, trunk extensions, rear corners, rockers etc. That was mainly it. That is why I lean to a rebody. It was rebodied and we see what was left, then sold as a racecar.
Would be interesting if there was a rebody out there and the original...usually the original is crushed and ya' never have to worry about seeing it again :popcrn:
Quote from: AKcharger on September 20, 2014, 07:00:25 PM
Would be interesting if there was a rebody out there and the original usually the original is crushed :popcrn:
It would be interesting.-- :scratchchin:
Also interesting would be a reuniting of the tags,etc with the hulk. Would that combo be any more valuable than a 440 rt that wasn't such a Frankenstein?
If I was a buyer and had all the facts I would pass on it's value as an original hemi car.
In my mind it is one of those that has passed on. :Twocents:
I'm pretty certain whomever sold the Wildfire body didn't count on all of this "attention" :leaving:
Quote from: TUFCAT on September 20, 2014, 07:52:43 PM
I'm pretty certain whomever sold the Wildfire body didn't count on all of this "attention" :leaving:
I suspect that as well. ::)
This topic brings to mind the quirky nature of collectors and what they find to be of value. :slap:
I would be happy with the shell. Regardless of its documented pedigree the car obviously needs 1000hp.
Maybe the guy that bought the tags (plus body) on auction, took one look at the body and said, "No way, just give me the tags and junk the body."
Then tag seller keeps the body and gets rid of it later through sale?
Quote from: Patronus on September 20, 2014, 09:22:41 PM
I would be happy with the shell. Regardless of its documented pedigree the car obviously needs 1000hp.
Yep.....and then returned to it's natural habitat.
The more mature[older] I get, the less I'm interested in original hemicars, and the more I'm into old hemi race cars. Wildfire should go down the strip again.
Quote from: dyslexic teddybear on September 20, 2014, 10:17:47 PM
Quote from: Patronus on September 20, 2014, 09:22:41 PM
I would be happy with the shell. Regardless of its documented pedigree the car obviously needs 1000hp.
The more mature[older] I get, the less I'm interested in original hemicars, and the more I'm into old hemi race cars. Wildfire should go down the strip again.
Agree. 100% correct restored cars are a dime a dozen...well almost, but restored race cars are almost non-existent
It's been nearly 10 years.....what has happened since ,or did this just die?
Quote from: ossietim on January 31, 2023, 05:35:33 AM
It's been nearly 10 years.....what has happened since ,or did this just die?
i spoke to a buddy of wildfires ( gutted ex drag car 68 J code charger body shell ) owner on here a while back , think he still looking
cant find that thread at minute but had some pictures of the charger at a show like a barn find type thing :shruggy:
every 68 J code charger i see on line i look at the fender tag for color codes seeing if its the missing tags :yesnod: