http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/lounge-42/what-waste-196610/ The remains of 414627
did some asking around and found out it was a 69 daytona charger with a 440, one of 37 sold in canada and of them 10 were green which this one originally was. Not much left to it now, a few guys who were restoring chargers a few years back took any salvageable parts off http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-MODERN-MOTOR-MAGAZINE-October-1969-Valiant-2-Door-Jaguar-Holden-Monaro-/231480210427?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item35e54bb3fb
Quote from: nascarxx29 on September 25, 2010, 07:14:47 PM
:o http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/lounge-42/what-waste-196610/
did some asking around and found out it was a 69 daytona charger with a 440, one of 37 sold in canada and of them 10 were green which this one originally was. Not much left to it now, a few guys who were restoring chargers a few years back took any salvageable parts off
:shruggy: That is the same Ravine Remnants Daytona that we have have been discussing on Moparts for at least a week... apparently 414627... :popcrn:
It turned up again on this site this cobalt site time posted 11-24-2009, .Not sure if the moparts poster demond is the same guy on this cobalt site who posted it .But turns out to be same car
http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/lounge-42/what-waste-196610/
Quote from: nascarxx29 on September 25, 2010, 07:35:09 PM
It turned up again on this site this cobalt site time.Not sure if the moparts poster demond is the same guy on this cobalt site who shows more pictures .But turns out to be same car
http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/lounge-42/what-waste-196610/
It was posted on the Cobalt website 10 months ago... I am guessing Desmond just found it on the web... :shruggy:
Only discrepancy after all 3 accounts Desmond says F5 . Cobalt guy says green.Furyman Canada says T5 414627
intresting :yesnod:
going to have a read up on moparts :yesnod: :popcrn:
Moparts thread is in the modtop post.If I can sort out the original poster of this daytona .Maybe when can find out this cars life story .Of how it ended where it lays.Then move onto the next wingcar destroyed story.For years I saved pictures and stories of destroyed wing cars etc.And compiled into the tails of destruction collection.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae240/Wingcars69/scrapsuperbirdgreen.jpg)
This other superbird was raced at a local area track then in a street wreck in 1970 and never resurfaced in any form.Right in my own area where I lived .And still remains a mystery of its whereabouts
Superbird mystery is a car that raced at atco dragway.In NJ owner was B Kesselman who had a speed shop drag in.The superbird had a logo of a dragon on its doors along with the drag in.I was able only to get zerox pictures from a family member.After it had been in a street crash in July 1970 Whereabouts today??
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/75414/scan0007-1.jpg)
Quote from: tan top on September 26, 2010, 03:05:50 AM
intresting :yesnod:
going to have a read up on moparts :yesnod: :popcrn:
Here is the link
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Test&Number=6206882&Searchpage=1&Main=6190919&Words=+WINGCARS_6970&topic=&Search=true#Post6206882
Another car and story to look into
http://www.hotautoweb.com/sites/default/files/classic-car-images/796/1970-Plymouth-Roadrunner-Super-Bird-440-4bbl-Interior-02.jpg
Quote from: nascarxx29 on September 26, 2010, 10:10:11 AM
Quote from: tan top on September 26, 2010, 03:05:50 AM
intresting :yesnod:
going to have a read up on moparts :yesnod: :popcrn:
Here is the link
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Test&Number=6206882&Searchpage=1&Main=6190919&Words=+WINGCARS_6970&topic=&Search=true#Post6206882
thanks for the link !! :cheers:
:popcrn:
new info:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Test&Number=6206882&Searchpage=1&Main=6190919&Words=+WINGCARS_6970&topic=&Search=true#Post6206882
hello & welcome :2thumbs: , thanks for sharing the pictures & posting link :cheers: :cheers:
:popcrn:
Welcome to DC.Com Desmond... amazing pics, and more to come I'm sure! :icon_smile_big:
Yes thanks for the pictures. :o
:popcrn:
rebody ? :shruggy:
That's the question. What the heck do I do with it?
Broadcast and rad support are MIA, otherwise everything else is accounted for. Except the ability for it to "Christine"-itself back into a decent damage-free, rust-free shell.
Quote from: Desmond on November 11, 2010, 08:19:13 PM
That's the question. What the heck do I do with it?
Broadcast and rad support are MIA, otherwise everything else is accounted for. Except the ability for it to "Christine"-itself back into a decent damage-free, rust-free shell.
No - that possibility exist.......just takes a big bag of money, a semi usable doner and a phone call to AMD!
Some one needs to rebuild this GREAT Car! :Twocents:
Someone tell Dan from CCR we have his next series of episodes all figured out for him.
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 13, 2010, 06:57:17 AM
Someone tell Dan from CCR we have his next series of episodes all figured out for him.
good idea :yesnod: :popcrn:
If anyone would like to make an offer I am listening. I do not have the resources to do this car. This started out as a trip to go into a ravine and recover some old pieces of a Daytona to get some wall art for my garage. Then I found the motor (albeit with a hole in the side of it from a wayward connecting rod exit at 135 MPH in 1973). Then got tipped to the location of the tags, driver's door with VIN decal, original transmission, rare Daytona trunk hinges, etc. Those items are available to me for a price. So now I have something else on my hands. PM me if seriously interested.
Quote from: Desmond on November 13, 2010, 10:51:17 AM
If anyone would like to make an offer I am listening. I do not have the resources to do this car. This started out as a trip to go into a ravine and recover some old pieces of a Daytona to get some wall art for my garage. Then I found the motor (albeit with a hole in the side of it from a wayward connecting rod exit at 135 MPH in 1973). Then got tipped to the location of the tags, driver's door with VIN decal, original transmission, rare Daytona trunk hinges, etc. Those items are available to me for a price. So now I have something else on my hands. PM me if seriously interested.
Nice. ::)
Shiplist cross reference 926172 as seen on fender tag Is for XX29L9B414627
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae240/Wingcars69/4973432-fendertag2.jpg)
XX29L9B414627 update: finally got this stuff in my possession (including original dealership bill of sale with warranty booklet and Charger manual...what now? :shruggy:
engine stamp
another
Just missing the car.
I'm all for saving them if they can be saved, but from the 2 pics on the cobalt site looks like all there is left is a rusty passengers door jamb and 1/2 a rocker :shruggy:
sad this car has all the documentation you could ever hope for just no car .
Quote from: Desmond on May 01, 2012, 12:50:38 PM
...what now? :shruggy:
save it all and wait til dynacorn makes a charger body and "restore" it!
I would gladly take that stuff off of your hands. Have a nice spot here on a shelf in the garage for the parts, and palace in the safe for the papers.
Quote from: moparstuart on May 01, 2012, 03:34:29 PM
sad this car has all the documentation you could ever hope for just no car .
:yesnod: just what i was thinking !! damn sods/ murphys law :icon_smile_blackeye:
Desmond,
Congrats on getting more of this Daytona together! Also thanks for the update!
I would check and see if the 440 block can be sleeved and saved? The matching motor and trans will be more valuable than just a trans.
Then I would check and see if there are any T5 auto Daytonas that need a drivetrain? Maybe one Daytona could be made whole in a differant sort of way? There are not many T5 auto Daytonas to begin with!
If not like richRTSE says wait for a Dynacorn Charger body.
MJ
Missing the visuals here but the T5 is similar to the TX white Daytona a couple yrs ago in shape I am guessing.
Is there an old thread on that as I recall was a field fire rusty ....rusty white Daytona that apparently sold on "the bag"?
:popcrn:
Quote from: XS29LA47V21 on May 01, 2012, 05:14:21 PM
Missing the visuals here but the T5 is similar to the TX white Daytona a couple yrs ago in shape I am guessing.
Is there an old thread on that as I recall was a field fire rusty ....rusty white Daytona that apparently sold on "the bag"?
:popcrn:
L9B355107 is the white car that was toast. If you do a search on "355107" you will get some thread hits with discussion.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,14653.25.html (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,14653.25.html)
Congrats nice documentation
L9B355107 is the white car that was toast. If you do a search on "355107" you will get some thread hits with discussion.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,14653.25.html (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,14653.25.html)
[/quote]
Thanks, White...one of my two/three favorite colors for a 500/Daytona... but not that rough.
This ghostly photo of XX29L9B414627 was taken circa 1971 by a Bob Saunders when he encountered the car while travelling with his parents on the Burin Peninsula of Newfoundland. She wasn't in too bad of shape...yet. Note snow tires....The car obviously had a white tail stripe even though the salesman mistakenly printed "B.B STRP BLK" on the original bill of sale to designate 'bumble bee stripe - black'
If everything go's as planned, I will be the next owner of this sad car. Now if I can get mark worman and graveyard carz to bring this one back from the grave. :shruggy:
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: good luck , you have taken on a massive task , all I can say is document everything you do with pictures or no one will ever believe u could have saved it .
Congrats if you can get it. I sent a pm about trying to buy the car but no reply.
Quote from: Nwcharger on May 16, 2012, 02:29:42 PM
If everything go's as planned, I will be the next owner of this sad car. Now if I can get mark worman and graveyard carz to bring this one back from the grave. :shruggy:
j
Congrats, I was going to offer up a trade of a complete 526 hemi for this, but since you got it, I'll keep my hemi :cheers: Good luck with it and let us all know how it turns out.
Thanks.... I am going to do everything I can to save this car. I understand its going to cost a fortune to restore but Ive always wanted a Daytona and this seems like the only way I will ever get one. I can promises this car will not change hands again until I'm in the ground, i can't tell you how pissed my wife is about it.
Car? What car? :shruggy:
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on May 18, 2012, 10:42:42 PM
Car? What car? :shruggy:
Agreed,...all I see here is a "car on paper",....or an "envelope"
As i said there is 1/2 a rotten rocker and door jamb unless there is another pile not shown. There is nothing to restore.
Theres more to the car than that picture. I got around 80 pics of the car, or I guess what's left of the car.
Just be prepared to endure a lot of flack anywhere you show the resurrected vehicle, the reactions will be extreme. :scratchchin: :RantExplode::popcrn:
Quote from: Nwcharger on May 19, 2012, 12:13:49 PM
Theres more to the car than that picture. I got around 80 pics of the car, or I guess what's left of the car.
Well post'em up!
I'm the guy who had the car in an envelope for over 20 yrs. Des went and got the remnants of the car from the ravine . I had the wing for many years and sold it to a good friend who happens to own a Hemi wing car . he sold it a few years later to somebody that was restoring another wing car .
Des acquired the items that I had and got the documentation from the original owner who is another good friend......he owned three wing cars here in Newfoundland.
Yes there is more to the car than the pics, I believe there is a usable firewall, inner splash pans , cross member and maybe some other pieces . I did not have the resources at the time to bring this car back to life. I have certainly seen worse rebuilt and now considered "original" cars. I sure hope something is done to get another Daytona back on the street. Whatever it takes. I made the info public years ago Ie: vin number, so that a rebody would not be passed off as an original car. I believe Des has posted the vin and fender tag also. Now that the numbers are well known , it may keep it from being passed off as an "original" 30 yrs down the road when Des and I are long gone.......me anyway .
Quote from: mopar_man on May 23, 2012, 05:54:35 AM
I'm the guy who had the car in an envelope for over 20 yrs. Des went and got the remnants of the car from the ravine . I had the wing for many years and sold it to a good friend who happens to own a Hemi wing car . he sold it a few years later to somebody that was restoring another wing car .
Des acquired the items that I had and got the documentation from the original owner who is another good friend......he owned three wing cars here in Newfoundland.
Yes there is more to the car than the pics, I believe there is a usable firewall, inner splash pans , cross member and maybe some other pieces . I did not have the resources at the time to bring this car back to life. I have certainly seen worse rebuilt and now considered "original" cars. I sure hope something is done to get another Daytona back on the street. Whatever it takes. I made the info public years ago Ie: vin number, so that a rebody would not be passed off as an original car. I believe Des has posted the vin and fender tag also. Now that the numbers are well known , it may keep it from being passed off as an "original" 30 yrs down the road when Des and I are long gone.......me anyway .
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Id buy Troys Daytona as opposed to trying to resurect this one,
In the long run, Troys car would A LOT cheaper.
Quote from: gtx6970 on May 23, 2012, 12:40:19 PM
Id buy Troys Daytona as opposed to trying to resurect this one,
In the long run, Troys car would A LOT cheaper.
Talk about marketing !!! Thanks Bill.................
PS: Also, did you get my email about just going ahead and buying the bracket?
Quote from: hemi68charger on May 23, 2012, 01:04:25 PM
Quote from: gtx6970 on May 23, 2012, 12:40:19 PM
Id buy Troys Daytona as opposed to trying to resurect this one,
In the long run, Troys car would A LOT cheaper.
Talk about marketing !!! Thanks Bill.................
PS: Also, did you get my email about just going ahead and buying the bracket?
duh, yes, :slap:
pm sent
Quote from: gtx6970 on May 23, 2012, 12:40:19 PM
Id buy Troys Daytona as opposed to trying to resurect this one,
In the long run, Troys car would A LOT cheaper.
You may be right, the problem with me is I couldn't afford troys Daytona. if i could i would, but At least this way I can slowly spend the cash to put it together. I don't plan on any type of profit or reselling the car, Maybe I can get my kids involved and give them the mopar bug too. I think I was 12 when my dad gave me a 68 charger project for my first car. Mopars are the best. :cheers:
I'd love to see pics of the other remains and the journey to put something together. I think it would be the biggest rebuild ever.
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on May 23, 2012, 01:45:43 PM
I'd love to see pics of the other remains and the journey to put something together. I think it would be the biggest rebuild ever.
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
:iagree:
Please?
They are on a private photo bucket account. I'll contact Des and make sure it's ok to post some of the pics.
Quote from: Nwcharger on May 23, 2012, 03:05:46 PM
They are on a private photo bucket account. I'll contact Des and make sure it's ok to post some of the pics.
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
:2thumbs:
:2thumbs:
:2thumbs:
the last 2 pics are a floor and right quarter panel from a 69 that was parted (not by me) years ago. they came with my 69 as extra pieces
Does anybody know how the car ended up in the ravine or was it posted and I missed it?! :scratchchin:
Quote from: 69bronzeT5 on May 25, 2012, 01:17:13 AM
Does anybody know how the car ended up in the ravine or was it posted and I missed it?! :scratchchin:
Gravity......... :D
cool at least there is alot of it there
Quote from: moparstuart on May 25, 2012, 06:40:31 AM
cool at least there is alot of it there
I need that floor pan for the 500 !!!
I see nothing to save or repair the car. :scratchchin: I thought the car was red, but now I see green.?? Either way, there is nothing left on the bone.
Rebody will only get you into trouble. :Twocents:
Quote from: 69bronzeT5 on May 25, 2012, 01:17:13 AM
Does anybody know how the car ended up in the ravine or was it posted and I missed it?! :scratchchin:
The car was parked in a gravel pit along with a dozen other cars. Sometime in the mid 70s the town where the car was located decided to build a dam to fix flooding problems in the town. The location of the dam is where the cars where parked, so when the bulldozers arrived they pushed all the cars down the ravine to get them out of the way. What a bunch of a-holes. If it was me and I was told to get the cars moved I would have towed the daytona home instead of trashing it
I hope you have good metal skills! :popcrn:
Quote from: ACUDANUT on May 25, 2012, 09:19:27 AM
I see nothing to save or repair the car. :scratchchin: I thought the car was red, but now I see green.?? Either way, there is nothing left on the bone.
Rebody will only get you into trouble. :Twocents:
The car had a few paint jobs its short life on the road. It's original color is T5. I have no plans for a rebody.
Re: Canadian Daytona
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2009, 12:55:2
Another lost T5 - black guts car..414627
Looks like AMD can't save this one as they don't make any of the inner framing of the 1/4's or roof/back window,door hinge pillars. Almost need to buy a 10-15K rust free shell and cut it up.
Since the plan is to rebuild it you'd need to start welding/joining off something original to the car that is solid, what original piece are you going to build off of ?
The only thing that may be usable that i saw in the pics is the firewall. I also assume the top of the rad support with the vin # is long gone and i don't see any trunk gutters so that # must be long gone too.
Quote from: Nwcharger on May 25, 2012, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on May 25, 2012, 09:19:27 AM
I see nothing to save or repair the car. :scratchchin: I thought the car was red, but now I see green.?? Either way, there is nothing left on the bone.
Rebody will only get you into trouble. :Twocents:
The car had a few paint jobs its short life on the road. It's original color is T5. I have no plans for a rebody.
Excuse me....how can you possibly think that this car can be repaired without rebodying it? I own a restoration company and would love to see your step by step method of repair. I see this project causing you nothing but misery somewhere down the road. :Twocents:
Quote from: Nwcharger on May 24, 2012, 11:55:02 PM
the last 2 pics are a floor and right quarter panel from a 69 that was parted (not by me) years ago. they came with my 69 as extra pieces
Life is just too short to contemplate how many miles of mig wire and cut up donor cars you need to Hmmmm....."resurrect" the "essence" of what was once a Daytona........I just hope you didn't part with too much cash for what you have.......not to be a "Debbie Downer", but this project, without a rebody, will never see fruition
Quote from: hotrod98 on May 26, 2012, 02:50:31 PM
Quote from: Nwcharger on May 25, 2012, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on May 25, 2012, 09:19:27 AM
I see nothing to save or repair the car. :scratchchin: I thought the car was red, but now I see green.?? Either way, there is nothing left on the bone.
Rebody will only get you into trouble. :Twocents:
The car had a few paint jobs its short life on the road. It's original color is T5. I have no plans for a rebody.
Excuse me....how can you possibly think that this car can be repaired without rebodying it? I own a restoration company and would love to see your step by step method of repair. I see this project causing you nothing but misery somewhere down the road. :Twocents:
I agree, that car is about as far as you can get from being restored. It should have been crushed long ago and by luck it wasn't. If you try to rebuild it, nobody will believe you didn't rebody it. There isn't anything to build off of. There is nothing solid enough to even weld too it looks like.
Take the VIN, hang it on your wall. Put the old girl down and move on.
Ryan
My thoughts exactly. You can't rebuild a car, if your starting with a crushed and cut up beer can.
All I can say is I will document all work done to the car once I get it with lots of pictures, I'm wondering what customs is going to say when they see it. Ive talked to them a few times and they said they don't care about the condition of the vehicle when it comes to importing back to the states. Does anybody know what happend with this daytona? http://forgotten-mopars.piczo.com/page104?cr=6&linkvar=000044 I guess it sold on eBay a few years back for 22k
Quote from: Nwcharger on May 26, 2012, 09:53:39 PM
All I can say is I will document all work done to the car once I get it with lots of pictures, I'm wondering what customs is going to say when they see it. Ive talked to them a few times and they said they don't care about the condition of the vehicle when it comes to importing back to the states. Does anybody know what happend with this daytona? http://forgotten-mopars.piczo.com/page104?cr=6&linkvar=000044 I guess it sold on eBay a few years back for 22k
Look forward in seeing this.... Good luck............ Any thoughts on when you'll start?
Well, I have seen hemi cudas restored from less and several old race cars too. Don't listen to the Debbie Downers. Personally, I would set the firewall/apron/front rails up in a jig and start building off of there. Document all your work and then let the next owner decide if they want a car that went through that process of a restoration. It's not like you are hiding anything and the history of the car can be found in a click of the button. Good luck!
A downer or a realist. All he has is a sub floor. Where on that can you find VIN numbers. He has nothing.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on May 27, 2012, 10:31:19 AM
A downer or a realist. All he has is a sub floor. Where on that can you find VIN numbers. He has nothing.
Unfortunately. I don't see anyplace that would hold the VIN number, not the core support or trunk or any of the few other places. So basically what you are doing is a rebody.
Even the Purple 71 Hemi Cuda Wert had the core support and firewall to build off of.
With this, you are doing a rebody. Even if you build off a 1' x 1' section of original flooring, it is a rebody. I believe legally you need to have something like 20% of the structure to keep it legal. I think you have what, 2% of the car left?
He has the front structure according to the pics he posted. Plus a lot of little extras. As much if not more than the 71 hemi convertible started off with, along with several other cars that have been done in the past.
If this one gets a rebody it will not be the first daytona to get one......At least this one is well known and the owner is not FIXING it up behind closed doors......I would make it a 2 fender tag car.The original tag and one stamped REBODIED beside it.
Quote from: Nwcharger on May 26, 2012, 09:53:39 PM
All I can say is I will document all work done to the car once I get it with lots of pictures, I'm wondering what customs is going to say when they see it. Ive talked to them a few times and they said they don't care about the condition of the vehicle when it comes to importing back to the states. Does anybody know what happend with this daytona? http://forgotten-mopars.piczo.com/page104?cr=6&linkvar=000044 I guess it sold on eBay a few years back for 22k
After reading this post on your wanted ad for fenders
Quote from: Nwcharger on January 07, 2012, 12:00:49 AM
i would like a decent pair sense body work is not my expertise by any means, but really anything for a good price. :icon_smile_big:
If body work is not your thing your going to farm out all the work to the river rat ?
The restoration cost at a shop would equal the price of a turn key daytona.
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on May 30, 2012, 11:18:30 AM
Quote from: Nwcharger on May 26, 2012, 09:53:39 PM
All I can say is I will document all work done to the car once I get it with lots of pictures, I'm wondering what customs is going to say when they see it. Ive talked to them a few times and they said they don't care about the condition of the vehicle when it comes to importing back to the states. Does anybody know what happend with this daytona? http://forgotten-mopars.piczo.com/page104?cr=6&linkvar=000044 I guess it sold on eBay a few years back for 22k
After reading this post on your wanted ad for fenders
Quote from: Nwcharger on January 07, 2012, 12:00:49 AM
i would like a decent pair sense body work is not my expertise by any means, but really anything for a good price. :icon_smile_big:
If body work is not your thing your going to farm out all the work to the river rat ?
The restoration cost at a shop would double the price of a turn key daytona.
fixed
Frankly, the car would get a fair amount of attention just hauling it to a show on a trailer. It is what it is.
maybe run a add on west coast for parts and new friends with welding skills. then hold some save the endangered,rare daytona summer partys.everyone can learn and help save this winged creature. search for 68 super charger build and jims build partys.
think i can sell cheap or donate 69 satillite 8 3|4 and big block k member and front a arms,spindles......few years back could have got ya the whole rust free sat htop shell real cheap. have a valient 4dr rolling shell will that help,,haha?? pm me or email is in profile.. latttter dj,oregone
P.S. REAd new thread,,,,,,,,,have ya ever sent a charger to the crusher?? roof n doors florida and guy in wash may have parts in shed??
Quote from: Nwcharger on May 18, 2012, 10:35:08 PM
Thanks.... I am going to do everything I can to save this car. I understand its going to cost a fortune to restore but Ive always wanted a Daytona and this seems like the only way I will ever get one. I can promises this car will not change hands again until I'm in the ground, i can't tell you how pissed my wife is about it.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
you still above ground,,,no reply lately and ya said ,cant say how pissed wife is.....?????????????? just wondering if ya alive and or is cars back on market,hahaha .. hope ya alive and making peace and plans?? dj- oregon
Yea I'm still around. Just been busy working on my joe dirt clone and trying to sell a couple Toyota 4x4s and at least 1 honda. I talked about also selling my 68 rt but I'm trying to hold out on that one. I'm 1/3 paid for on the daytona and should have it in my yard no later than Xmas. I got my to calm down, at least until the other day when I told her I may have 100k into the car when said and done. :icon_smile_blackeye:
So anyone know???? my guess is this would be the NEWFOUNDLAND QUARRAY DAYTONA from past threads ,,,,,,and lost or found daytonas????????????
well quarry ,,gravel pit or dam site,,sure is sickening the way this car was abused when it was only afew yrs old. any more info may be helpful to new owner and history of this daytona?? :popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Yes, and no.
There was a myth of a quarry Hemi
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7992.0.html
.The recent 440 remains remaints etc is a 440 car story was pushed over a cliff by a bull dozer and other cars at a construction site :Twocents:
i wonder if there is anymore of this said car buried under some of the rubble? :shruggy: Did you see any of the other cars down there?
Are you talking about the water filled quarry or the other one?
no water
:popcrn: :popcrn: any new info ,pics or plans??? :2thumbs:
Quote from: djcarguy on September 21, 2012, 07:03:00 AM
:popcrn: :popcrn: any new info ,pics or plans??? :2thumbs:
I should have it paid off minus the shipping by the end of this month hopefully. It would be the ultimate graveyard car to restore on tv for everyone to see. Maybe I'll give them a call when I get it and have them take a look at it
This build at the very least will be something to watch. Although I have to agree with some of the "senior" members, who surely know more then I do, hanging the fender tag on the wall, keeping the dealer info, and selling what is left would probably be your best bet by far. "Rebody?" Is it any different then some of the cars sold today? Some of the "basket" cases I've seen sell on e-bag have turned out to be pretty nice cars. Doesn't it make you wonder what it took to put some of those cars back to "road worthy" condition. If the car has all its important "stamped" parts to it, truly does it make it any different then some of the others out there passed off to be "original?" I know I'm going to hear allot of flack over this, but I was trying to keep an open mind when it comes to "saving" another piece of American muscle technology. I will agree with on statement on here though, if you sold all what you are selling and then buy Troy's car, I sincerely think you be be happier and more content with a car you "know" is solid and real......just my :Twocents: i guess. Good luck in which ever direction you decide to go, can't wait to see what happens next.
Yes, it does make it very different, if the car is that far gone then its dead. Sorry but I just don't believe in rebodying.
:iagree:
And I should be clear that where I stand on a lot of other cars that are "original" as you say, is that they aren't original, they're clones. They took the DNA of the donor car and added it to a different embryo.
Cars that LOOK like something they aren't, such as a 318 car made to look in every way but number like an RT is a replica. Cars that take the numbers and then PRETEND to be the original car when they are really something else are clones.
:iagree: :icon_smile_big:
I"ll be honest with you, I feel the same way you do, but here in lies the problem. Why then does it seem to be ok, if you see a car on e-bag or even on here, have more then half of its "original" parts missing be passed off as "original?" I know there have to be cars out there that "claim" to be original, but have been re-bodied. I have seen some cars that have been mostly stripped of its original pats go for a bit because someone says its original and finished it will be worth considerably more. I guess they just have not gotten caught or for some reason someone turns the other cheek as they say, and claim to have seen nothing or know anything about it. What do you do to actually find/know if someone has done this? I'm just asking because I truly would be one of those who might fall for a scam like that.
Simple. It's not. A lot of so called original cars just aren't.
Ok, I know in some states its illegal to even consider the re-body concept, then how in the heck can they do this and get away with it? What would you do if you found out it had been a re-body deal? Would you post it on here, report it, or what steps would you take to correct what has been done? My guess is that if by chance someone found out that it had been re-bodied, they would say nothing because they would potentially loose allot of money they just invested. Do you place it back for sale and say nothing, or do you do the right thing and report it? I curious because I wonder how many people know of this and turned around and resold what they know is to be false.... :shruggy:
Technically its illegal in all states and Canada too. You aren't allowed to transer a VIN to another vehicle.
You'd have to have some title history done to verify if it's original or a chop shop ordeal. Ghoste is right and wrong. It is illegal to switch vins, unless you are licensed as a rebuilder. If you are, than you can take something like one of these derelict Daytonas and swap the numbers over to another rebuildable chassis. But there is a lot of paperwork that has to be done. I know a guy outside of my town that has a wrecker service. When the car becomes his legally, he'll rebody the car if he has the parts.
Thats the first I've ever heard of that but even if its true it doesn't change my opinion. A rebody is a clone.
:popcrn:
Thanks for the knowledge on the vin's, but no one answered my question: what happens if you find out that their purchase you just acquired in infact a re-body deal. Do you tell, or put it back up for sale and hope to get your money back out of it before someone finds out?
The only problem I have about any of this is this: what happens today and back in the day when a car was wrecked beyond let's say 1/2. In most cases the insurance company makes every effort to repair your car "before" they will consider it a total loss right. So, if half or more then half of the car is destroyed or needing repair, is that not the very samething as a re-body? Just think, back in the day, many body shops fixed cars that were considered dang near a total loss. Replacing everything with OEM parts. So, if by some chance this car ends up with say OEM parts from another good body 69, is that not the same as a body shop repairing the damage after it was in an accident? Just wondering :shruggy:
Quote from: stroker400 wedge on September 21, 2012, 11:20:10 AM
You'd have to have some title history done to verify if it's original or a chop shop ordeal. Ghoste is right and wrong. It is illegal to switch vins, unless you are licensed as a rebuilder. If you are, than you can take something like one of these derelict Daytonas and swap the numbers over to another rebuildable chassis. But there is a lot of paperwork that has to be done. I know a guy outside of my town that has a wrecker service. When the car becomes his legally, he'll rebody the car if he has the parts.
If this is true, what then do you call this car? Clone? Original? I don't know, maybe someone can give light on this subject because I'd truly like to know :popcrn:
The insurance company will right it off whenever the repairs exceed the value, so back in the day on a 3 or 4 year old used 69 Charger you can bet your ass they wrote it off. As for the other part of your question, well thats the million dollar question that pervades the entire hobby isn't it?
To me, and this is only one persons opinion, if you swap the numbers over onto another body, its a clone. As for what percentage of car can you replace before its a clone in my books? I don't know. I call it as I see it, there is no hard rulebook anywhere. I doubt there is even an accepted hobby norm. I say the alleged XP Hemi that Chop Cut Rebuild did is a rebody which makes it a clone in my books. They insist vehemently that its a restoration. You have to decide for yourself I guess?
Quote from: Ghoste on September 21, 2012, 01:41:22 PM
The insurance company will right it off whenever the repairs exceed the value, so back in the day on a 3 or 4 year old used 69 Charger you can bet your ass they wrote it off. As for the other part of your question, well that's the million dollar question that pervades the entire hobby isn't it?
Yea I guess it is because I was curious as to how many of these re-body 68-70 Chargers actually get passed around, and no one does a single thing about it. I guess since they spent the money they did, a loss to them is unacceptable :2thumbs:. Not sure if faced with that type of situation what I would do. Hopefully I wouldn't have too much invested before I found out I guess.
Rebody leads to multiple lies and falacies, and the future buyer is the one that get's screwed. There is no place for rebodies in my book, It is illegal to swap a VIN plate from one car to another bar none, I owned a Towing service and I know a few guys that did this and are in prison now!! (Jeeps and Mustangs) Rebuilder or not it is illegal 100%
And knowing ahead of time wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a particular car but it would certainly influence what I was willing to pay (which is why people hide the fact).
And knowing ahead of time wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a particular car but it would certainly influence what I was willing to pay (which is why people hide the fact). :iagree:
Quote from: Ghoste on September 21, 2012, 01:51:56 PM
And knowing ahead of time wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a particular car but it would certainly influence what I was willing to pay (which is why people hide the fact).
:2thumbs: Is this the car you are talking about? What do some people think of the (restoration/re-body)?
I'd have to call that one a restoration. Yes, they replaced all the skins, floor, trunk, front stub, and what not, but that car KEPT its' factory identity. No numbers were took off another car to make this car the XP hemi. It's taking the numbers off say a hemi car and putting them on a /6 car and calling that car a hemi car is what we're are talking about.
I'd have to go back and re-read the thread but there was such an insignificant amount of the original car left that I can't see it as a restoration. To me personally that one is a clone or a recreation. Its all semantics and if you ask 50 people you'll likely get 50 varying opinions. :lol:
Quote from: Gary42 on September 21, 2012, 01:54:01 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on September 21, 2012, 01:51:56 PM
And knowing ahead of time wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a particular car but it would certainly influence what I was willing to pay (which is why people hide the fact).
:2thumbs: Is this the car you are talking about? What do some people think of the (restoration/re-body)?
its a re-body
That car is not a rebody, glad they did it the right way!! :2thumbs:
Quote from: Ghoste on September 21, 2012, 02:01:39 PM
I'd have to go back and re-read the thread but there was such an insignificant amount of the original car left that I can't see it as a restoration. To me personally that one is a clone or a recreation. Its all semantics and if you ask 50 people you'll likely get 50 varying opinions. :lol:
At what point, to you , does a restoration end, and a recreation begin?
See, that's what I'm saying. Even though this car was a documented XP29J car, it was by many experts considered beyond a restoration. Although AMD supplied all the body skins, it was still over half considered a loss. Some say restoration while the rest re-body. Dang if I can understand this :shruggy:, sry for all the confusion, but I guess I just don't get it sometimes :brickwall:
Quote from: stroker400 wedge on September 21, 2012, 01:58:37 PM
I'd have to call that one a restoration. Yes, they replaced all the skins, floor, trunk, front stub, and what not, but that car KEPT its' factory identity. No numbers were took off another car to make this car the XP hemi. It's taking the numbers off say a hemi car and putting them on a /6 car and calling that car a hemi car is what we're are talking about.
For those that didn't get it the first time.
We're getting way off topic now, but that isn't exactly a well documented XP Hemi either. It MIGHT be one but there isn't any hard documentation to prove it as such.
Quote from: Indygenerallee on September 21, 2012, 02:02:28 PM
That car is not a rebody, glad they did it the right way!! :2thumbs:
The XP ?? :shruggy: they cut the numbers out of the core support and the rear rail and grafted them back into new metal , not 20 % of that car is original sheet metal its a Rebody plain and simple . They could have tried much harder to save original good sheet metal on the car but it was a show piece / show case for AMD 's new sheet metal so they just hacked away at that car and put all new in . Granted that car was a rust bucket but there was so much metal they could have saved and they just tossed it for new because of there sponser for a TV show . :Twocents:
Quote from: Ghoste on September 21, 2012, 02:10:21 PM
We're getting way off topic now, but that isn't exactly a well documented XP Hemi either. It MIGHT be one but there isn't any hard documentation to prove it as such.
right it could have just been a Vin stamp error , there are several other vin stamp error cars out there
I totally agree to an extent. The original car kept its identity though, even if the car itself does not have most of its original sheetmetal. Therefore, it's not a rebody, it's a restoration. A REBODY is taking the vin off a desireable direlict vehichle and REPLACE the vin of a less desirable vehicle. A CLONE is a less desirable vehicle that is IMPERSONATING a more desirable vehicle WHILE maintaining its less desirable vin.
WHO DOES NOT UNDERSTAND? I WROTE IT IN BLACK AND WHITE AND IT'S PLAIN AS ENGLISH.
Then a recreation. They didn't keep enough of the old car to restore.
Quote from: Ghoste on September 21, 2012, 03:00:04 PM
Then a recreation. They didn't keep enough of the old car to restore.
RESTORATION.
RE body weather its a 6cy / 318 less desirable car or AMD taiwan sheet metal Its a rebody
to little of the original car was saves . They could have very easily save at lease one of the doors for sure the core support , the rear trunk rails were fine front inner fenders and much more could have been saved .
We can do this forever and I already wasted too much of my life arguing about that particular re-creation. We are way off the original topic and there is no way you will ever change my mind about it even if you put your opinion in capital letters, and I couldn't care less about changing yours so see it as you please.
Quote from: moparstuart on September 21, 2012, 03:14:10 PM
RE body weather its a 6cy / 318 less desirable car or AMD taiwan sheet metal Its a rebody
to little of the original car was saves . They could have very easily save at lease one of the doors for sure the core support , the rear trunk rails were fine front inner fenders and much more could have been saved .
I will agree that there was probably more of the original car that could have been saved. I don't know. I wasn't there to actually make that assumption. The actual term we need to be using on this car is RESKIN. Another term is REBUILT. Whether you use reskin or rebuilt, this car is definitely a RESTORATION. It still has the vin that it had when it left the factory. Rebody is like taking a Dynacorn challenger and putting a factory vin off of a derelict challenger and putting it on the Dynacorn chassis.
They did a lot more than just replace exterior sheet metal though, there was very little and nearly none of the original car left. Semantics.
I know there was no insurance company that totaled the car out. The last registered owner simply abandoned it where he parked it in the 70s. I found a picture of the purple 71 hemi cuda convertable that was restored and if all that left was the core support/inner fenders/fire wall and windshield frame then I can guarantee that I have much much more than that to work with. I still have no plans for a rebody. This I exactly why I want mark and his crew to do this. Not only would it be on tv but it would prove that it's possible.
That I agree with. I watched the show. Basically, it was just a firewall, inner roof frame, and inner rockers. That is why I previously mentioned the term rebuilt. Agree or Disagree. No change was made to the vin except to put the numbers back on the core support.
My opinion on this particular Daytona, it's going to be a rebody. Basically, all that's there is a vin, a floor pan, and a few key pieces that identify the remains of the car as a Daytona. Best way to do it, is to get another car and put the vin on it. I'd talk with someone that is certified to do it.
Quote from: stroker400 wedge on September 21, 2012, 03:54:32 PM
I'd talk with someone that is certified to do it.
And who might that be? Because unless this is 1969 and the car is running down the line I don't think anyone is "certified" to VIN the car
Re: It used to be a 69 daytona
« Reply #109 on: Today at 10:20:10 AM »
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You'd have to have some title history done to verify if it's original or a chop shop ordeal. Ghoste is right and wrong. It is illegal to switch vins, unless you are licensed as a rebuilder. If you are, than you can take something like one of these derelict Daytonas and swap the numbers over to another rebuildable chassis. But there is a lot of paperwork that has to be done. I know a guy outside of my town that has a wrecker service. When the car becomes his legally, he'll rebody the car if he has the parts.
Quote from: stroker400 wedge on September 21, 2012, 05:39:46 PM
Re: It used to be a 69 daytona
« Reply #109 on: Today at 10:20:10 AM »
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You'd have to have some title history done to verify if it's original or a chop shop ordeal. Ghoste is right and wrong. It is illegal to switch vins, unless you are licensed as a rebuilder. If you are, than you can take something like one of these derelict Daytonas and swap the numbers over to another rebuildable chassis. But there is a lot of paperwork that has to be done. I know a guy outside of my town that has a wrecker service. When the car becomes his legally, he'll rebody the car if he has the parts.
I may have misunderstood what you originally said.
To clarify, I think it is possible to re VIN a repaired vehicle with a new identification number that is unique but different from the original. But if you are saying it is possible to simply transfer the OEM tag to anoter body i would have to disagree with you. As far as I am aware no person or company can legally take an existing VIN plate and transfer it to a donor body. From what I have always ever known is illegal in both the U.S. and Canada.
Quote from: stroker400 wedge on September 21, 2012, 05:39:46 PM
Re: It used to be a 69 daytona
« Reply #109 on: Today at 10:20:10 AM »
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You'd have to have some title history done to verify if it's original or a chop shop ordeal. Ghoste is right and wrong. It is illegal to switch vins, unless you are licensed as a rebuilder. If you are, than you can take something like one of these derelict Daytonas and swap the numbers over to another rebuildable chassis. But there is a lot of paperwork that has to be done. I know a guy outside of my town that has a wrecker service. When the car becomes his legally, he'll rebody the car if he has the parts.
I have always been led to believe that this practice is "illegal" here and in Canada. If by some chance you felt the "need" to re-body a car, how do you become "certified" in order to do so: and if so, then why do more people not do the same to cars that are barely holding together by "pieces" of original sheet metal? Isn't this the same discussion here about re-body earlier and how it is illegal to do so? If this Daytona is perhaps able to be -re-bodied, then what will it be considered? Restored or Re-bodied. Just wondering if someone has an answer.
What I do know is this: had a great afternoon at Larry's house. Rode in a "real" Superbird, played with "real" Cuda's/Challengers, and wished Joe would just let me drive is "real" Daytona just one time :2thumbs:. A "real" numbers matching, 4 speed (dana) Daytona..........hummmmm......yup I guess I wouldn't mind having it in my stable :yesnod:
You don't it's illegal you can't be "certified" to swap them.
You don't it's illegal you can't be "certified" to swap them.
Quote from: Indygenerallee on September 21, 2012, 09:00:35 PM
You don't it's illegal you can't be "certified" to swap them.
Haaaaa.......got it, thanks for clearifing that :2thumbs: I was wondering how someone could become "certified" to move or re-body any vehicle.
Borrowed a little something from For B Bodies Only. Obviously, this topic does not just pertain to this car, or us, but the whole industry. Reading other forums and what not, this discussion as it did today, this topic goes both ways. Your DMV will tell you if it's legal or not to rebody a car or not. Here it is:
I would imagine that I posted maybe this on the other frum you are referring to, if not here are both sides of the "ETERNAL REBODY ARGUEMENT."
I will do my best to present all I know to be the OPINIONS and FACTS of BOTH sides of this controvery, so that in the future anyone interested in the subject can read this in the archives and let this post do the arguing for them.
Here we go.
FOR THE PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE REBODYING IS WRONG
Many people in the hobby feel that there is a big difference in the way people "restore" a car, ESPECIALLY a unibody.
They believe that the unibody is the core or soul of the car.
They believe that when the car was created by the manufacturer, that the numbers that were assigned to that particular unibody, and the assortment of parts that were assigned to and installed on it to create the model they were disignating are sacred. That no one else outside of the manufacturer has the right to do a V.I.N . switch (which did happen when these cars were new before they ever left the final assembly line) on any of these cars for any reason.
They believe that IF the car is what they consider to be salvagable by repairing existing body parts or installing new, reproduction, or good used parts, that is the only legal/ethical way to restore the car and maintain the heritage/originality of the car that the original manufacturer built.
They feel that when a car is rusted/damaged to the point that there is little left of the original unibody that the car should be scrapped and taken out of existence.
They believe this is not just a matter of legalities but also a matter of ethics.
They believe that even if it IS legal on a Federal level and in many States, that it is still unethical and morally wrong.
They feel that restoration by rebody is NOT a restoration at all but rather a fraud created on the hobby and any line of ownership after the rebody takes place.
They feel that even when disclosure is made by the party that did the rebody, to the next person that purchases the car, that it is still unacceptable. They feel that it is all to likely that somewhere down the line in years to come with the ownership changes of the car that this will NOT be disclosed to future buyers.
Many are adamant about their belief that switching V.I.N . tags to another similar car/unibody and associated hidden I.D. numbers is just plain wrong, legal or not. Regardless of how CORRECT the car may appear, with all of the correct componants that the factory would have installed on a like unibody, it is not the same as when the factory did it, and that THEY (the original manufacturer) are the only ones that had the right to do so.
They consider all rebodies to be nothing more than a clone with the identity numbers from another car.
They believe that a registry of any KNOWN rebodies and any SUSPECTED rebodied should be kept for any future buyers to be aware of to aid in their buying decision.
Before we go to the other side of the arguement, the below information needs to be considered.
THE CATCH 22
Most feel the real problem is that there is no definition of where the line is with regards to the restoration of a unibody car.
At what point does the car cross the line from what has been described above as a restoration rather than a rebody?
How much of the original unibody has to be left for new, reproduction, or good used parts to be attached to?
How big of a CHUNK of a donor car can you use in this restoration before it is considered a rebody?
Does the simple act of removing the V.I.N . plate from one car or part of the car constitute a rebody?
What about removing the V.I.N . plate because the part of the car that it is attached to is damaged? Does this constitute a rebody?
Does a car that was front or rear "clipped" by a bodyshop 30+ years ago constitute a partial rebody?
If a car was first FRONT clipped and a year later REAR clipped, does this constitute a complete rebody?
All good questions with no answers that probably any two people will agree on.
This is why so many people have mixed feeling about the restoration/rebody arguement.
FOR THE PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE THAT A REBODY IS AN ACCEPTABLE FORM OF RESTORATION
These people do not believe the car or unibody has a soul, or that the car is sacred. They do not hold the manufacturer in a Godly manner and assume that none of the factory line workers were any kind of Saints.
They believe that the base unibody is the same for a given car line (e.g. "A", "B", "C", or "E" body) and it is just an assembly of parts added to this base unibody that creates the particular price class. These are terms that Chrysler created for their cars.
These people believe that IF the manufacturer had the right to switch V.I.N.s of a car that they built, that an individual has the same right, provided that they legally own both cars involved in the rebody.
The manufacturer did this in the interest of "saving" a car, rather than scrapping it, for purely financial reasons. If they mistakenly built a car that somehow did not meet the criteria of what the V.I.N . model designation indicated, they took the path of least cost to convert it to a different model and made a V.I.N. plate switch that reflected that. Did you ever wonder why the HIDDEN V.I.N. numbers don't have the FULL V.I.N. stamped in them? It left flexability for the manufacturer to make V.I.N./model changes when the car was near completion.
The people that believe in rebodying, do so for the same reason, because it is financially less costly.
These people also sometimes do so in the interest of safety when they have a car that they want to save that may have serious body deformation or serious rust problems in the unibody.
These people believe that they are also saving the heritage of the car by doing so.
These people feel that it is better to have a donor car that is as the factory built, and without damage, to transplant the parts that were factory installed specific parts that made up the identity of the car they want to save.
They believe that it is legal on a Federal level and cite the Federal Law from the Cornell University Law Library in the link below as their proof.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...1_18_10_I.html
These people argue that in a State that considers rebodying a car is illegal, don't think that State law would hold up against an appeal to a higher court.
They believe it would be pretty obvious that if a State court ruled it illegal when the person that did it OWNED both cars legally, the defending party would arguing "intent," indicating that if the State law was upheld in this case, that it would be appealed to a Federal court. With this information in front of a judge (who is certainly smart enough to understand the "intent" of the law was to thwart chop shops) would rule in favor of the person who did the rebody. It would certainly be overturned in a Federal court. Not to mention, it would have to PROVEN that the rebody was DONE in the a State that it was against State law, and have an eye witness that actually saw the numbers switch take place in order to "prove" that the seller actually did it. It probably would not even get to trial and would be thrown out at the initial hearing. Court systems are overloaded throughout the US with trials that are far more important that someone doing a restoration (rebody) of a car that involves a donor car that the parts could have been switched in either direction. The whole thing is way too subjective with regards to where the line is, as indicated in the CATCH 22 section above.
They believe what you are talking about here would be a criminal suite, not a civil action. Anybody can sue someone and get a trail for a civil suite, but it is a whole other story when you are talking a criminal action.
These people believe that the people on the other side of this controversial subject, do their best to impact the value of a rebodied car in a derrogatory manner. This leads to it NOT being disclosed in most cases and will continue to be the case until such time that these cars are not looked down upon by some, but not all, in the hobby.
does anyone have any info on this cuda? i cant seem to find much info about it. was this all that was used to build off of the call restored and not rebodyed?
QuoteMany are adamant about their belief that switching V.I.N. tags to another similar car/unibody and associated hidden I.D. numbers is just plain wrong, legal or not.
the VIN tag is secured to the dash frame of both cars. why not simply leave the donor car VIN tag attached? if deception is not the main agenda, why does it matter which VIN this "restored" vehicle carries?
what plausible theory involving the "associated hidden ID numbers" makes them necessary to "preserve the heritage" of a car? Any 1969 charger is worth preserving. What makes it so imperative to "preserve" a hulk of scrap, when preserving the donor car is the easier and cheaper option?
Quote from: held1823 on September 22, 2012, 05:58:50 AM
What makes it so imperative to "preserve" a hulk of scrap, when preserving the donor car is the easier and cheaper option?
Because a hulk of scrap with a "XX" in the VIN is worth more than a moderately rusted complete car that only has a "XP" in the VIN
Because originality is worth more than rust. There is a very good reason why for sale ads almost never ever mention if the car is a rebody and yet they tout its originality continually.
Quote from: stroker400 wedge on September 21, 2012, 10:38:41 PM
huge ass article thing
was this lifted off of a pro-choice website? holy hell.
Quote from: pettybird on September 23, 2012, 12:27:57 AM
Quote from: stroker400 wedge on September 21, 2012, 10:38:41 PM
huge ass article thing
was this lifted off of a pro-choice website? holy hell.
For B Bodies only. I was researching the subject of rebodying a car after ghoste and myself had our own discussion of the matter. Seems like our opinions are shared throughout the hobby.
Quotewas this lifted off of a pro-choice website? holy hell.
My thought exactly PettyBird!!
VIN laws mention 'tampering'.
If removing body numbers from one body panel & transferring them to another is not tampering, then I need a new dictionary.
True, but these laws were meant more for the chop shops and not for the restoration industry. Checking with your DMV about it first is the smartest thing to do.
Stroker, You just don't get it YOU CANNOT TRANSFER ONE VIN PLATE TO ANOTHER CAR IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE IT'S ILLEGAL!!! 100% OF THE TIME!!!
Quote from: Indygenerallee on September 23, 2012, 01:01:51 AM
Stroker, You just got it YOU CANNOT TRANSFER ONE VIN PLATE TO ANOTHER CAR IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE IT'S ILLEGAL!!! 100% OF THE TIME!!!
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/21/classic-recreations-spurs-creation-of-new-law-to-help-restorers/
OK, I know everyone will hate me for this....
Legally a car doesn't exist as a piece of iron, it exists as a piece of paper called a title. Actually, it starts as paper - a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin, which is then used to obtain a state title.
That title is a legal claim to the iron and the components of the vehicle - all of which - every single piece - can be replaced / repaired without regard to originality. There are few legal distinction between a repaired/replaced/restored vehicle (provided some individual state legal aspects of the restoration process are met).
While you can get a clear, branded, salvage, or rebuilt title (depending on circumstances) ALL of those are legal instruments that allow you to rebuild a vehicle of which there are ZERO original parts remaining. Now, only car enthusiasts will find this disturbing, of which I am generally one - but I also understand the law and the various sorts of car titles that exist (depending on the state) - salvage and rebuilt titles are common means of restoring a car that has been totaled.
These titles are necessary to distinguish appropriate levels of state required insurance coverage (and the insurance companies also use those titles to assign coverage and liability levels).
So, let me cut to the chase.
IF I can salvage a vin tag or indentifying VIN number from ANY part of a wrecked car - I can get a salvage title in most states. And after getting the title, I can legally even replace the piece of metal that I used to acquire the original title. I can replace 100% of the parts with NON originals.
So that "used to be a 69 Daytona" is STILL a 69 Daytona, just one that will require a huge restoration most likely from a donor car. Legally you can have the title of the donor car branded or wiped out making IT incapable of ever being registered again as a legally driveable vehicle, while resurrecting the heap from the grave (provided the title to it is still clear).
I know that is a long, ugly, and unpalatable process to those who are car enthusiasts and value "originality" - but to the person who is buying a restored car - its just a question of "personal" taste or opinion on HOW MUCH restoration you can live with.
If it ever makes it back on the road, it will make for a hell of a story come auction time.
Don't shoot the messenger.
http://mapleleafmopars.homestead.com/MofMjuly2006.html
I agree with Rainbow 110%
Quote from: rainbow4jd on September 23, 2012, 01:29:14 AM
Legally a car doesn't exist as a piece of iron, it exists as a piece of paper called a title.
if that were the case, the two pieces of tin removed from this pile of scrap metal would not be worth hanging on to.
why keep the VIN and fender tags, if the car exists merely as a piece of paper? using your logic, the rebodied car would still be a daytona, even with the vin and fender tags from the donor car.
And ask anybody who has one if salvage titles are as vauable as clear original ones.
Just off hand without naming any vins....How many rebodied Daytonas are out there.I know of one but there must be more.....
Quote from: 65post on September 23, 2012, 08:15:41 AM
Just off hand without naming any vins....How many rebodied Daytonas are out there.I know of one but there must be more.....
That's the million dollar question I asked a few posts back, and if by some chance someone knows of any other "re-bodied/salvage" vehicles out there: who would actually be willing to divulge such information to the public. Esp......if they are the "new" owner, or a potential buyer of a vehicle worth more then just the "original" vehicles restored out there? I know its an ethical thing and from what I'm seeing, its illegal in both the US and Canada.
The only known vin tag switch I know of was done by Ford back in 1970. They had approximately 70 "69" Mustangs left over, and decided to "switch or re vin" them into 1970 Mustangs. They had allot of paperwork to go thru, but by federal standards, they were the "only" ones who could do this because they were the "original" builders of these vehicles. With a few modifications, they turned the 69's into 70 models. From what I remember about the discussion, they had to have FBI agents present when they did this to make it legal.
I think it comes down to what I have seen on here posted. If by some chance this Daytona is "re-bodied" by someone down the road, it is supposed to follow the car and be made public information during its time spent on the road. I think what many are worried about is that down the road this car will "loose" its "re-bodied" status and become known as "original" making it very valuable: probably more then some of the "original" ones on the road today.
Scary thought, but yes I guess it could happen and I can see why some of the owners of these amazing cars are truly worried beyond the ethical or moral beliefs. It could potentially bring down the value of say a "real" non re-bodied/salvage titled car because the more that are found and placed back on the road, the less rarity these cars will hold. Who knows, I guess we all have to sit back and watch this story unfold. I guess "only" the new owner will have to decide which avenue of approach he will take in considering what "he" wants to do with this car. Just my :Twocents:
I work in a business that sells some of the highest end cars in the hobby and I can tell you that a rebodied car always carries a stigma. There is still a market for them and guys will sometimes even set a sale record to get one but they always have that cloud over the car. About the only thing that seems to hurt the value of rebodied collector cars more is when its discovered at the last moment during an auction. If we find out at the last moment it has to be disclosed and it can really kill the interst. Much more so than one that has had the fact known all along.
I know for a fact that at least one of the seven existing (and coveted) 1971 Hemicuda convertibles is a rebody. It was done in 1974 and was sold for about $4500.00 back then. I'm 99% sure someone else later on restamped the core suppost and inside the quarter panel rail as I am equally 99% sure the car has been certified as legit by Galen Govier and I don't think the body shop that did the original rebody took the time to restamp anything. At that time the car was simply another total being rebuilt to sell at a profit.
Benji
I look at it like this. 503 of these cars where made and I want one but at there current value I will never afford one and at 28 years old I can only see them getting further away from a price that I can afford. If it cost me less than 10k for a carcass with matching number motor, dash vin, fender tag, trunk gutter vin and all the original paperwork then I think I'm off to a good start. I'm ok with the fact that if possible to restore its going to take years and years along with lots of money. I would love to buy troys car instead all day long but I'm sure he wouldn't want to take a down payment and payments for 20 years. I have no plans to hide its history. That would be impossible, so many people know about this car. I think It would be an amazing to see this car restored and back on the road. So was that 71 purple hemi cuda convertible restored or rebodyed? I still think I have more to my car if all that was left on the cuda was a core support, inner fenders, firewall and windshield frame. Does anyone have any pictures of that xp hemi charger before it's restoration?
There may be some pics of the XP thing in that thread on it. It weas basically a stripped out shell with no fender tag and rusty rusty rusty rusty.
Quote from: Nwcharger on September 23, 2012, 12:34:47 PM
I look at it like this. 503 of these cars where made and I want one but at there current value I will never afford one and at 28 years old I can only see them getting further away from a price that I can afford. If it cost me less than 10k for a carcass with matching number motor, dash vin, fender tag, trunk gutter vin and all the original paperwork then I think I'm off to a good start.
let's split that 10k figure up. how much do you suppose you'd be paying for the scrap carcass, and how much for the numbers and paperwork?
Quote from: Nwcharger on September 23, 2012, 12:34:47 PM
I think It would be an amazing to see this car restored and back on the road. So was that 71 purple hemi cuda convertible restored or rebodyed? I still think I have more to my car if all that was left on the cuda was a core support, inner fenders, firewall and windshield frame. Does anyone have any pictures of that xp hemi charger before it's restoration?
have more to your car, in regards to usable metal, or reusable documentation? you inquire about photos of the rebodied charger; we've seen photos of what you seek to bring back. does anyone, yourself included, think the finished product will have anything to do with the original car, beyond the numbers and paperwork?
we all know it's your time and money. don't let the doubters, myself included, cause you to not share the progress. opinions like mine are a dime a dozen, and way overpriced, even at that amount. regardless of how the restoration or rebody turns out, we will all appreciate the workmanship and story.
Considering the amount of bickering on this thread about what's legal what's not, I don't know what everyone else thinks, but I'm glad someone is trying to put one more Daytona on the road. :2thumbs: for that. Actually, :2thumbs: for anyone willing to take the time to put an old car back on the road. :2thumbs:
As someone else said a car is only original one time and then for only a few months. Once anything has been replaced it isn't original anymore. I suppose most wouldn't get too excited if the spark plugs, points, condenser, brakes or clutch/pressure plate, T/O bearing were not original but still if any of these parts have been replaced the car isn't really original to some I suppose. It most likely depends on how anal he wants to be.
Ben
Quote from: held1823 on September 23, 2012, 07:28:41 AM
Quote from: rainbow4jd on September 23, 2012, 01:29:14 AM
Legally a car doesn't exist as a piece of iron, it exists as a piece of paper called a title.
if that were the case, the two pieces of tin removed from this pile of scrap metal would not be worth hanging on to.
why keep the VIN and fender tags, if the car exists merely as a piece of paper? using your logic, the rebodied car would still be a daytona, even with the vin and fender tags from the donor car.
I think the rest of my post clarifies your question, the title preceded the iron, not the other way around.
There is no such legal distinction as "rebodied" - and I don't intend to get into that debate - its legal distinction is solely based on its "title".
Thereafter, its a question of personal opinions
Quote from: rainbow4jd on September 23, 2012, 01:55:18 PM
There is no such legal distinction as "rebodied" - and I don't intend to get into that debate - its legal distinction is solely based on its "title".
the linked article from post #159 earlier today seems to contradict this statement. some vehicle titles are indeed marked as a rebody, if the information presented in that autoblog story is accurate. if this daytona was being resurrected under those title stipulations, would someone still spend the time and money to build it? likely not, but obtaining a clear title changes the entire game, both legally and financially. those in the know concerning the car's history might not be affected, but the rest of the 99.99% would be at risk. look no further than the "documented" bobby allison contraption that mecum paraded across the auction block not so long ago, for evidence of what misinformation can do.
regulations, such as that apparently introduced in oklahoma, could go a long way towards preventing collector car fraud. leaving destroyed collector cars in the junk yard could do so, as well.
Quote from: held1823 on September 23, 2012, 02:47:05 PM
Quote from: rainbow4jd on September 23, 2012, 01:55:18 PM
There is no such legal distinction as "rebodied" - and I don't intend to get into that debate - its legal distinction is solely based on its "title".
the linked article from post #159 earlier today seems to contradict this statement. some vehicle titles are indeed marked as a rebody, if the information presented in that autoblog story is accurate. if this daytona was being resurrected under those title stipulations, would someone still spend the time and money to build it? likely not, but obtaining a clear title changes the entire game, both legally and financially. those in the know concerning the car's history might not be affected, but the rest of the 99.99% would be at risk. look no further than the "documented" bobby allison contraption that mecum paraded across the auction block not so long ago, for evidence of what misinformation can do.
regulations, such as that apparently introduced in oklahoma, could go a long way towards preventing collector car fraud. leaving destroyed collector cars in the junk yard could do so, as well.
Looks like Oklahoma created that title category on 11.1.2011 - I haven't worked any court cases their recently. However, I have attached a .pdf file of the actual title guidelines. It specifically refers to a "new" rebody available from the OEM manufacturer. It doesn't seem to apply in the context of our discusion on giving new life to trash heap cars.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vehindustry/vin_memos/vin2011/11vin31.pdf
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/25/511
This is US code on VIN alterations - the key components are the "exceptions" which deal with restorations and repairs. ergo 100% restoration is possible IF you have a clear title.
thanks for the links. the legal-speak can be a challenge to decipher, but it provides some explanation of the nuances behind the terminology applied to junk/salvage/rebuilt/rebodied titles. i wonder how many other states will come up with their own individualized way of dealing with oklahoma rebodied titles, or even institute rebodied vehicle title requirements of their own. an already messy subject could quickly turn into a inescapable quagmire for a buyer, should one of these questionable vehicles change hands across state lines.
on a side note, a thread regarding a high profile (and high dollar) rebodied car has recently taken wing on another site. it promises to be highly entertaining, and perhaps even educational. a reference to this daytona has even been tossed into the mix.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7391702&an=0&page=0#Post7391702
So much information/opinions and so many dang regulations on here, lol. Here is what I see coming out of all these postings on here. If the new owner obtains a "clear title," follows "all" state and federal regulations on "re-body/restoration" procedures. Documents all that has been done/replaced, followed with precise pictures, and knows how much this "resurrection/re-body" is going to cost (I believe he does because he mentioned being around $100k): then go for it. It is better to see something that "was" back on the road, then to see something that will "never" be again left in a pile to rust into oblivion. I'd say, if you have it to spend and do it right, "go for it!" Heck you cannot possibly take it with you when you die, so do what ever makes you feel good in the "here and now!"
Hopefully he does what many are asking, and this is to obtain another vin tag with "re-body" stamped on it and place it right next to the "original" vin tag. Pray that what is seen and discussed here will "forever" follow this car no matter where/how it ends up, that way it will "never" have the stigma/question as to where it came from and how it got here. I admire someone who is willing to go the distance, no matter who or what anyone else thinks. Have to admit, and some of us should, I would probably think hard as to which direction I wanted to go with this car: it "IS/WAS" a "real Daytona" at one point, to own a piece of American muscle car history (being restored/re-bodied) is something most of us on here dream about.
From what Larry says about Troy's car, YES, if I ever decided to use the equity in my home to buy a turn key Daytona, it would be his. Some of us get "lucky" at the very least to own a "real" Daytona, and the rest of us have to scrap the bottom of the barrel just to get close enough to imagine even owning a pile of scrap and paperwork once called a "Daytona!" So just keep in mind this littel thought: What would you truly do if the resources/material were available to put this car back to its glory day stature? Sry for being long winded, but its just my :Twocents: I guess.
The original Gone In 60 Seconds movie gives a very good account of why VIN transfer laws exist, i.e. what they were born out of.
They exist to prevent the disguising of a stolen vehicle. Thieves buy a wrecked carcass at auction for scrap prices. Then they go
out and find a complete identical/similar car on the street and steal it. Next they take the VIN information from the scrapped car and transfer it to
the stolen car and sell the stolen car using the wrecked car's VIN.
These laws were never intended to prevent someone from putting a staggering amount of time and money into the rebuilding of a car. The "spirit"
of the law (its intent) is a factor in the legal world. I doubt you would find many courts that would prosecute VIN transfer statutes against someone
restoring a car because those statutes were never intended to prevent VIN transfer in the case of rebuilding.
I doubt this because of personal experience with the act. I worked in a wrecking yard for several summers. The owner would buy totally rotten, rusted
beyond belief one ton pick ups out of Wisconsin. He would haul them back to North Dakota and we would put decent cabs on them and resell them as
chassis/cab work trucks. Some of the frames had VINs stamped in them so this was technically a VIN transfer. No one cared. The seller of the rotten
truck didn't care. The wrecking yard owner didn't care. The buyer didn't care - he just wanted a decent work truck for a good price (one tons were hard
to find around the area). The ND DOT didn't care because they receive license fees for another vehicle. The Highway Patrol didn't care because this
was a legally licensed vehicle. DOT didn't even care about the weight rating of the truck because it was licensed according to the weight of use - the GCVWR.
There was no stolen vehicle being disguised and that is why no one cared.
The real issue that many have with this level of rebuilding is not the rebuilding itself - it is the potential for misrepresentation in the future. There is only one
defense against this - documentation/archiving of data and making it available for everyone. It is up to the buyer to educate themselves on vehicle they intend
to purchase. All we can do is provide information.
Brennan R. Cook
If anyone rents the movie, it looks like they take a 69 motor out of a wrecked challenger? Not sure what was going on there lol.
I'll have to watch it again on the weekend now and see if I spot that. ;D
It's been a while since I watched it, but if memory serves me, they pulled the motor out of one wrecked Challenger, and put it in the stolen Challenger. The owner of the stolen Challenger recognized his car and so they towed it off and crushed it. :icon_smile_dissapprove: :bawling:
I totally agree with Arnie :yesnod:, and yes (sry for saying it this way) the "thieves/person/person's" responsible for stealing someone else's possessions for profit/glory, or whatever: should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I have seen in the past week a car posted here and on Moparts stolen from an individuals home. If by some chance someone finds/uses any part of that stolen vehicle (for profit/personal interest), should also be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law with the actual perpetrators.
There is not a single reason for one person/s to steal from another, no matter what the reason is. Its a shame that I have read on that post that the car in question could/may end up in some foreign country, be it in pieces or whole, and there's not a thing that the previous owner can do, most often, because the "expense" incurred of legal fees. That truly makes me sick to my stomach, and I sincerely feel that the laws surrounding the export of items which are deemed "stolen" should be returned at the shippers expense without question. If he/she fails to return the items and refuses to pay the rightful owner fair market value for said items, then they too should be prosecuted because they are "supposed" to check what they are shipping to be "free from theft." More-often-then-not all that happens is a slap on the wrist and a "scolding." What the heck :brickwall:. Just my :Twocents: I guess.
Sometimes though things work out like they should. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181988,00.html
Benji
i got the car paid off. all that remains is the shipping cost from new foundland canada to Vancouver b.c. witch should be around 1300.00. ill have the tags and documents hopefully next week. i cant wait!!
Glad to hear, keep us posted.
I got the tags and documents in the mail today. :icon_smile_big: Talk about fast shipping, 4600 miles in 2 days. Now I just need the get the carcass and number matching block.
:cheers: :cheers: :drool5: :popcrn: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND LOOKING FOR UPDATES AND GOOD NEWS,,,SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TOO IN THE NEW YEAR.. :2thumbs: :cheers:
WELL SURE HOPE THE NEW YEAR GETS HERE SOON AND IS WELL WORTH WAITTING FOR,,,,HO HO HO :cheers:
Question: What's the difference between welding what little is left of this car into a solid donor or aftermarket sheet metal vs. taking donor car parts and aftermarker sheet metal and welding it around what's little left of this car?
Answer: Nothing but a lot more work and expense.
This Daytona is gone. There isnt enough left of it to say it is an orginal Daytona no matter how it is assembled from here forward. That said, I admire the will/insanity to bring it back, and look forward to seeing it completed some day. It will be quite a story.
Please post up some pics for us when the rust heap is broomed off the trailer into your driveway!
Quote from: Nwcharger on October 11, 2012, 01:16:18 PM
i got the car paid off. all that remains is the shipping cost from new foundland canada to Vancouver b.c. witch should be around 1300.00. ill have the tags and documents hopefully next week. i cant wait!!
If you're dragging it through Vancouver, I wouldn't mind checking it out :2thumbs:
Quote from: 69bronzeT5 on December 24, 2012, 12:12:14 PM
Quote from: Nwcharger on October 11, 2012, 01:16:18 PM
i got the car paid off. all that remains is the shipping cost from new foundland canada to Vancouver b.c. witch should be around 1300.00. ill have the tags and documents hopefully next week. i cant wait!!
If you're dragging it through Vancouver, I wouldn't mind checking it out :2thumbs:
sure thing :2thumbs: it will be early spring im hoping. sooner the better.. here's a picture of it getting loaded to the pallet it will arrive on. theres a few more pieces that are not in that pic like the numbers motor. here's another of the trunk gutter vin and one of the trunk hinges. i picked up a daytona right fender a while ago but still need to have it shipped. anyone have a nosecone they want to sell??? maybe someone that has a convertable superbird?? :icon_smile_big: or anyone have a window plug with glass would also be great. i was talking with a guy in rhode island that said he had a nosecone and a window plug with glass but was never able to get any pictures or a price from him. :shruggy: . i was watching that chop cut rebuild on that xp hemi charger and found that pretty cool. did amd make that jig they had the car on or is there a company that makes one? merry Xmas everyone!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big:
I'd like to donate a spool of wire for this.
Quote from: Patronus on December 24, 2012, 10:11:50 PM
I'd like to donate a spool of wire for this.
make that two.....
only about 20 more spools and a bunch of sheetmetal, there will be another Daytona there!
How much of it is actually salvageable? That's one heck of a project. Best of luck. :2thumbs:
Quote from: stroker400 wedge on December 24, 2012, 11:42:05 PM
How much of it is actually salvageable? That's one heck of a project. Best of luck. :2thumbs:
Other than the vin number on the trunk gutter i see nothing. :scratchchin:
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on December 25, 2012, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: stroker400 wedge on December 24, 2012, 11:42:05 PM
How much of it is actually salvageable? That's one heck of a project. Best of luck. :2thumbs:
Other than the vin number on the trunk gutter i see nothing. :scratchchin:
In all honesty, I agree, but, I'm not there to see it in person to make an actual judgement. Sometimes, there are surprises.
I would think the photos say it all in this case. Sometimes there is more but this time the story is fairly evident.
:yesnod:
:popcrn:
I'd like to see Mark over at Graveyard Cars to re-do this one :yesnod:
Quote from: TruckDriver on December 25, 2012, 04:02:56 PM
I'd like to see Mark over at Graveyard Cars to re-do this one :yesnod:
me too, im only 2 hours away from his shop. i planned on contacting him as soon as i get the car here and hopefully have him look at it and see if he's up to the challenge of bringing this one back from the dead. that would be really cool..
Quote from: Nwcharger on December 25, 2012, 04:12:43 PM
Quote from: TruckDriver on December 25, 2012, 04:02:56 PM
I'd like to see Mark over at Graveyard Cars to re-do this one :yesnod:
me too, im only 2 hours away from his shop. i planned on contacting him as soon as i get the car here and hopefully have him look at it and see if he's up to the challenge of bringing this one back from the dead. that would be really cool..
I contacted Mark on facebook , he is now aware of the car and that you are close to him
You know that show (graveyard carz) They only show about 5 percent of work being done. I wish they would air: new quarters being welded on, the frame being worked on ect. They don't show much at all. I have seen all 6 episodes on youtube. All talk and drama. :brickwall:
This show sucks.
BTW, Mark needs a nose job. He lloks like a twocan parrot. :rofl:
That's why I quit watching most car shows on tv. If you want to watch something good, watch them on Saturday morning. You'll have to pick between them and cartoons :icon_smile_big: Lately, it's been cartoons
Quote from: moparstuart on December 29, 2012, 10:26:38 PM
Quote from: Nwcharger on December 25, 2012, 04:12:43 PM
Quote from: TruckDriver on December 25, 2012, 04:02:56 PM
I'd like to see Mark over at Graveyard Cars to re-do this one :yesnod:
me too, im only 2 hours away from his shop. i planned on contacting him as soon as i get the car here and hopefully have him look at it and see if he's up to the challenge of bringing this one back from the dead. that would be really cool..
I contacted Mark on facebook , he is now aware of the car and that you are close to him
Sweet :2thumbs: I was watching tv yesterday and seen a commercial for season 2 of graveyard cars. Makes me want to restore mopars as well. I joke with my wife all the time and tell her that if tired of turning wrenches and when I get a job with mark we are moving to Springfield. She gets mad because she finally talked her parents into moving to Portland but to me that's another reason to move :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: stroker400 wedge on December 30, 2012, 11:37:22 AM
That's why I quit watching most car shows on tv. If you want to watch something good, watch them on Saturday morning. You'll have to pick between them and cartoons :icon_smile_big: Lately, it's been cartoons
Ain't that the truth. I watched one of the car resto drama shows this afternoon and I wanted to scream. I was there when it was filmed and knew it was carefully scripted and for all intents and purposes fictional but the edited version comes out in such a different fashion. Reality shows. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: ACUDANUT on December 30, 2012, 11:34:46 AM
You know that show (graveyard carz) They only show about 5 percent of work being done. I wish they would air: new quarters being welded on, the frame being worked on ect. They don't show much at all. I have seen all 6 episodes on youtube. All talk and drama. :brickwall:
This show sucks.
Mark sent me a message today and said he met you today and talked about your remnants of a daytona
Quote from: moparstuart on January 17, 2013, 09:50:25 PM
Mark sent me a message today and said he met you today and talked about your remnants of a daytona
Yea I went down to graveyard cars with another member on the forum (c-stripes) that recently moved here to Portland. He was going down there to look at the purple sunroof challenger and ask me if I wanted to tag along. It was really cool to see the shop and all the cool mopars. We talked about my Daytona and when I get it shipped here I'm going to take it down to mark so he can see it and hopefully take on the challenge of bringing this car back from the dead. It was an awesome day. :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :2thumbs:
Quote from: Nwcharger on January 18, 2013, 12:56:21 AM
Quote from: moparstuart on January 17, 2013, 09:50:25 PM
Mark sent me a message today and said he met you today and talked about your remnants of a daytona
Yea I went down to graveyard cars with another member on the forum (c-stripes) that recently moved here to Portland. He was going down there to look at the purple sunroof challenger and ask me if I wanted to tag along. It was really cool to see the shop and all the cool mopars. We talked about my Daytona and when I get it shipped here I'm going to take it down to mark so he can see it and hopefully take on the challenge of bringing this car back from the dead. It was an awesome day. :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :2thumbs:
awesome glad you guys made a connection , ive been putting little hints in marks head so I hope it helps and decides to take it on
Tell Buzzard Beak to: FIX IT.
I was planning ta go by marks shop yesterday,sure wish i had heard you guys were headed down,as iam 20 some blocks away???
did see the 1st an 2nd show of new season yesterday,lots bettter than 1st season. next time john call me if down this way,thanks. woood of been good ta met ya guys there.did ya show mark any pics?? well great shop and mopars there at marks shop. i was there last fall when dane and tom were there saw the 2 daytonas and been back few times this year. lattter DJ :slap: :smilielol: :smilielol: :2thumbs:
Quote from: moparstuart on January 18, 2013, 07:42:14 AM
Quote from: Nwcharger on January 18, 2013, 12:56:21 AM
Quote from: moparstuart on January 17, 2013, 09:50:25 PM
Mark sent me a message today and said he met you today and talked about your remnants of a daytona
Yea I went down to graveyard cars with another member on the forum (c-stripes) that recently moved here to Portland. He was going down there to look at the purple sunroof challenger and ask me if I wanted to tag along. It was really cool to see the shop and all the cool mopars. We talked about my Daytona and when I get it shipped here I'm going to take it down to mark so he can see it and hopefully take on the challenge of bringing this car back from the dead. It was an awesome day. :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :2thumbs:
awesome glad you guys made a connection , ive been putting little hints in marks head so I hope it helps and decides to take it on
thanks :2thumbs: :2thumbs: he did say someone has recently told him about the car. i really hope he takes it on as well. it would be cool to have it on his show too..
Hey DJ. Next time I go down, I will let you know. Marks shop is pretty cool and it was fun to see all of the cool mopars down there. Some of those cars definitely need some help, a praticular white super bird comes to mind. :) Mark and everyone we met were good people. I am glad that I have the opportunity to help out a little on one of their projects.
Was also fun going down with another member from the bored, who happens to live less than half a mile from me. What luck, eh?
Quote from: C_stripes on January 20, 2013, 01:33:25 AM
Hey DJ. Next time I go down, I will let you know. Marks shop is pretty cool and it was fun to see all of the cool mopars down there. Some of those cars definitely need some help, a praticular white super bird comes to mind. :) Mark and everyone we met were good people. I am glad that I have the opportunity to help out a little on one of their projects.
Was also fun going down with another member from the bored, who happens to live less than half a mile from me. What luck, eh?
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Well if the boys take on the Newfie Daytona , the sponsors should be aware that it will be one of the highest rating shows of all the automobile world. Knowing so much about this Daytona and having some "stuff" for over 20 yrs , I think I could watch the show a couple of times .
Best of luck and hope they decide in your favor.
COme down to marks shop on a friday in the summer. we have Brooks auto parts every friday with 50 or so cars and Fins diner a car hang out till late.diner is few blocks from me an 15+ rigs at my house. 6 mopars ,2 are vans and some of everything else.
saw 3rd show of season 2,was maybe best yet . sure looking forward too rest of new season. :2thumbs: :cheers:
looking for a good year and car fun,kid support over and have to get my 67 belve ragtop out this year.lattter DJ
First off, I would like to share my story. I once bought a car that had a VIN swap done to it in the 70s. It was a mess and to make a long story short the car ended up in a dumpster after I ran the numbers to make sure that it wasn't stolen. Now the tags are mounted to a nice piece of oak and hanging in my office to serve as a reminder to do my due diligence before purchasing a rare car. I truly despise it when people perform VIN swaps, whats the point other than money? The Hemi Cuda convert shown earlier in this thread just sold at BJ auction for 1.2 million before commission. I bet the fellow who bought it had no idea it was a near rebody. I saw that car in person in Vegas and from a glance it looked real and legit. Is it worth top dollar? Probably not, but the car was rebuilt from remnants of that car. Unfortunately the details of the resto are lost in auction hype and the buyer suffers because he probably didn't do his due diligence. Is the car a rebody? No, not in my opinion. It is a total basket case rebuild which is bound to happen when the cars are so rare and valuable. Ok now its time for me to get off my soap box.
The Daytona in this thread falls under that same basket case rebuild. Is it worth the same as a nice low mileage all original panel car? No but it is being rebuilt from the remnants of a real Daytona with full disclosure. Which is A-ok in my book. There are a few cars that come to mind, barrell cuda anyone? I truly enjoy this hobby for the nostalga and the love of the cars, which it sounds like this Daytona is being rebuilt for the love of the car not profit. The downside is that somewhere down the line the details will get lost and some slime ball will try to pass it off as a low mileage original car. The savvy buyer wont buy that load because he will know what to look for. But some richy rich will bid it up on some auction on TV because he has more dollars than sense.
I guess my point is that some people on the internet will judge you and tell you that you can't do this without a complete rebody. I haven't seen the car in person but I believe that it can be rebuilt in the spirit of the original car. Since you have been very forthcoming with info I also believe that you are going to document the rebuild in detail. I say go for it and enjoy the process and show the nay sayers that you can do it.
Quote from: wingcarenvy on January 29, 2013, 02:43:09 PM
First off, I would like to share my story. I once bought a car that had a VIN swap done to it in the 70s. It was a mess and to make a long story short the car ended up in a dumpster after I ran the numbers to make sure that it wasn't stolen. Now the tags are mounted to a nice piece of oak and hanging in my office to serve as a reminder to do my due diligence before purchasing a rare car. I truly despise it when people perform VIN swaps, whats the point other than money? The Hemi Cuda convert shown earlier in this thread just sold at BJ auction for 1.2 million before commission. I bet the fellow who bought it had no idea it was a near rebody. I saw that car in person in Vegas and from a glance it looked real and legit. Is it worth top dollar? Probably not, but the car was rebuilt from remnants of that car. Unfortunately the details of the resto are lost in auction hype and the buyer suffers because he probably didn't do his due diligence. Is the car a rebody? No, not in my opinion. It is a total basket case rebuild which is bound to happen when the cars are so rare and valuable. Ok now its time for me to get off my soap box.
The Daytona in this thread falls under that same basket case rebuild. Is it worth the same as a nice low mileage all original panel car? No but it is being rebuilt from the remnants of a real Daytona with full disclosure. Which is A-ok in my book. There are a few cars that come to mind, barrell cuda anyone? I truly enjoy this hobby for the nostalga and the love of the cars, which it sounds like this Daytona is being rebuilt for the love of the car not profit. The downside is that somewhere down the line the details will get lost and some slime ball will try to pass it off as a low mileage original car. The savvy buyer wont buy that load because he will know what to look for. But some richy rich will bid it up on some auction on TV because he has more dollars than sense.
I guess my point is that some people on the internet will judge you and tell you that you can't do this without a complete rebody. I haven't seen the car in person but I believe that it can be rebuilt in the spirit of the original car. Since you have been very forthcoming with info I also believe that you are going to document the rebuild in detail. I say go for it and enjoy the process and show the nay sayers that you can do it.
well said chris :cheers:
been afew weeks, looking forward too new info an plans. keep us dreamers ,high, :cheers: with another daytona fix???? :D :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :drool5: latter DJ :cheers:
Even David Copperfield could not do anything with this car, guess another re-body is in the making, soon to be seen on eBay with the Canadian one.
Quote from: johnnyseville on February 14, 2013, 09:16:12 PM
Even David Copperfield could not do anything with this car, guess another re-body is in the making, soon to be seen on eBay with the Canadian one.
I didn't know I had plans of selling it on eBay. :shruggy: :shruggy: :shruggy: the guy selling that rebodied 500 as a Daytona is a crooked douche bag and I don't have respect for people like that. I have 2 other chargers and one of them is already a Daytona clone. If I wanted to do a rebody I would just put the tags on my clone and claim it was restored.
Quote from: Nwcharger on February 15, 2013, 01:44:19 AM
Quote from: johnnyseville on February 14, 2013, 09:16:12 PM
Even David Copperfield could not do anything with this car, guess another re-body is in the making, soon to be seen on eBay with the Canadian one.
I didn't know I had plans of selling it on eBay. :shruggy: :shruggy: :shruggy: the guy selling that rebodied 500 as a Daytona is a crooked douche bag and I don't have respect for people like that. I have 2 other chargers and one of them is already a Daytona clone. If I wanted to do a rebody I would just put the tags on my clone and claim it was restored.
Its a real shame a car such as this was allowed to disintegrate in this manner, but it happened. Then I would respectfully ask, what are your intentions? Do you really believe this can be resurrected? That would even outdo the resurrection of Lazarus by Jesus. The condition of this "car", makes others termed "basket cases" look like concours restorations. It just cannot be done, by anyone. Let's be practical, no disrespect intended. If you want to put in twice as much money as a finished Daytona would cost, that is up to you, more power to you. Tell me what I am missing.
Quote: "If I wanted to do a rebody I would just put the tags on my clone and claim it was restored."
That still would not work, because it still would not be a XX car. :scratchchin:
Quote from: johnnyseville on February 15, 2013, 08:45:38 AM
Quote from: Nwcharger on February 15, 2013, 01:44:19 AM
Quote from: johnnyseville on February 14, 2013, 09:16:12 PM
Even David Copperfield could not do anything with this car, guess another re-body is in the making, soon to be seen on eBay with the Canadian one.
I didn't know I had plans of selling it on eBay. :shruggy: :shruggy: :shruggy: the guy selling that rebodied 500 as a Daytona is a crooked douche bag and I don't have respect for people like that. I have 2 other chargers and one of them is already a Daytona clone. If I wanted to do a rebody I would just put the tags on my clone and claim it was restored.
Its a real shame a car such as this was allowed to disintegrate in this manner, but it happened. Then I would respectfully ask, what are your intentions? Do you really believe this can be resurrected? That would even outdo the resurrection of Lazarus by Jesus. The condition of this "car", makes others termed "basket cases" look like concours restorations. It just cannot be done, by anyone. Let's be practical, no disrespect intended. If you want to put in twice as much money as a finished Daytona would cost, that is up to you, more power to you. Tell me what I am missing.
I plan on taking the car to mark at graveyard carz when it shows up this spring. I don't plan on hiding anything about the history and or restoration of the car. If mark tells me there's absolutely no way to bring it back from the dead then the tags will more than likely go on the wall in a frame. To me putting the tags on another car is not the right thing to do.
I know this is kind of weird - but what makes a car a rebody versus a repair?
Ford Motor Co sells a pickup cab, a complete frame, a new pickup bed, and fenders for its F-150 pickups. While practically speaking, a fellow would have the insurance company "total" the wreck and go get a new one, you could chose to repair the dang thing. is that a rebody?
Is it the idea that there aren't any parts being made for it?
BTW Ford even makes complee 66-67 Mustang shells, so you restore (rebody) your old Mustang.
I know this is a sensitive issue, and maybe because I focus on the legal aspects of things... but until a title is branded (as a salvaged vehicle) the car is really just a piece of paper. You can replace every part and it still be considered that SAME piece of paper.
Anyway, is there a definition of what restored, rebodied, etc. etc. really is - or is it just a general opinion that "at some point, there ain't nothing left of the old car"?
PS I had a 69 Hemi GTX that got new quarters, new fenders, new floorpans, new trunk floor - there was so much new metal on that car that I bet the old stuff was less than 20%. Was that a rebody or a restoration? If I had gotten all those pieces from a SINGLE donor car, vs buying them all independently, would htat have made it a rebody?
"I know this is kind of weird - but what makes a car a rebody versus a repair?"
...consider that can of worms open... :D
Quote from: WINGIN IT on February 16, 2013, 09:36:53 AM
"I know this is kind of weird - but what makes a car a rebody versus a repair?"
...consider that can of worms open... :D
To sum it up .................money and who's doing it .
Quote from: mopar_man on February 16, 2013, 11:00:01 AM
Quote from: WINGIN IT on February 16, 2013, 09:36:53 AM
"I know this is kind of weird - but what makes a car a rebody versus a repair?"
...consider that can of worms open... :D
To sum it up .................money and who's doing it .
The way I interpret that :
Those with intregity ( the guys who have and are willing to put the money into the project to do it honestly)
And those who don't ( the guys who would just rebody the car and call it original )
:Twocents:
Quote from: mopar_man on February 16, 2013, 11:00:01 AM
Quote from: WINGIN IT on February 16, 2013, 09:36:53 AM
"I know this is kind of weird - but what makes a car a rebody versus a repair?"
...consider that can of worms open... :D
To sum it up .................money and who's doing it .
Means absolutely nothing, you will have to expand on your response.
Quote from: WINGIN IT on February 16, 2013, 01:49:43 PM
Quote from: mopar_man on February 16, 2013, 11:00:01 AM
Quote from: WINGIN IT on February 16, 2013, 09:36:53 AM
"I know this is kind of weird - but what makes a car a rebody versus a repair?"
...consider that can of worms open... :D
To sum it up .................money and who's doing it .
The way I interpret that :
Those with intregity ( the guys who have and are willing to put the money into the project to do it honestly)
And those who don't ( the guys who would just rebody the car and call it original )
:Twocents:
So a guy with integrity and money, who buys a Charger with the back half rotted out (common), who picks up a bunch of AMD panels and replaces his whole back half, it all is OK in your book, right?
Then your second statement of rebody would only pertains to someone who transfers numbers from the rotted car to one needing way less work, right?
Just want to get a clarification. As long as no numbers have changed from one car to another, even though practically all the panels are junk, like if some idiot decided to run his Hemi car in the demolition derby, the next buyer could replace all the panels and whatever needs work, and it will be legit.
yes second one is meant for those less honest and transfer numbers from rotten body to good body without disclosure.
:D
Quote from: johnnyseville on February 16, 2013, 02:51:38 PM
So a guy with integrity and money, who buys a Charger with the back half rotted out (common), who picks up a bunch of AMD panels and replaces his whole back half, it all is OK in your book, right?
Then your second statement of rebody would only pertains to someone who transfers numbers from the rotted car to one needing way less work, right?
Just want to get a clarification. As long as no numbers have changed from one car to another, even though practically all the panels are junk, like if some idiot decided to run his Hemi car in the demolition derby, the next buyer could replace all the panels and whatever needs work, and it will be legit.
I think it all revolves around intent and disclosure. Either scenario would be fine as long as the intent was not to deceive and full disclosure was done. The problem with these cars is that they might be sold with full disclosure to someone who intends to flip it with no disclosure. Then it's a real issue. In this day and age there are more of these scumbags than honest people. Luckily the internet has made research on some of these vehicles an easier task and more within the hobby are aware of them. If I had that car, I would most likely do the same as the current owner is doing. When I displayed it, the full story would be displayed with it. If I sold it, the prospective buyer would be told everything up front. In between, I'd enjoy it thoroughly.
my personal opinion isn't worth two cents, but here it is.
intent and disclosure are both virtues, but not every collectible car was meant to survive.
Quote from: held1823 on February 17, 2013, 12:57:42 PM
my personal opinion isn't worth two cents, but here it is.
intent and disclosure are both virtues, but not every collectible car was meant to survive.
Well, yes and no. The old saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", pertains to cars also. What one guy feels is the car of his dreams, another may say it should have been crushed years ago. So it depends, to each his own.
Quote from: Hemi Runner on February 17, 2013, 11:41:57 AM
Quote from: johnnyseville on February 16, 2013, 02:51:38 PM
So a guy with integrity and money, who buys a Charger with the back half rotted out (common), who picks up a bunch of AMD panels and replaces his whole back half, it all is OK in your book, right?
Then your second statement of rebody would only pertains to someone who transfers numbers from the rotted car to one needing way less work, right?
Just want to get a clarification. As long as no numbers have changed from one car to another, even though practically all the panels are junk, like if some idiot decided to run his Hemi car in the demolition derby, the next buyer could replace all the panels and whatever needs work, and it will be legit.
I think it all revolves around intent and disclosure. Either scenario would be fine as long as the intent was not to deceive and full disclosure was done. The problem with these cars is that they might be sold with full disclosure to someone who intends to flip it with no disclosure. Then it's a real issue. In this day and age there are more of these scumbags than honest people. Luckily the internet has made research on some of these vehicles an easier task and more within the hobby are aware of them. If I had that car, I would most likely do the same as the current owner is doing. When I displayed it, the full story would be displayed with it. If I sold it, the prospective buyer would be told everything up front. In between, I'd enjoy it thoroughly.
I agree with half of this, if the numbers were swapped, then definitely that should be disclosed, may not make much difference to certain buyers, but at least they know. As far as body panels, who in their right mind is going to believe a 40+ year car has all their original panels. Those that do, are definitely in the minority. And as it has been said on the forum before, the quality of AMD panels is very good now, maybe better than the originals were, certainly better than a lot bondo covering up the bad original panels, so I do not feel one should be obliged to mention it unless asked. :Twocents:
"As far as body panels, who in their right mind is going to believe a 40+ year car has all their original panels. "
I take offense to that remark... :rotz:
Answer is simple....Very simple....If you swap the numbers and NEVER attempt to try and sell it, then it's "ok"...It's only when you go to sell it for the 6 figures you have in it is when people get riled up.
Quote from: WINGIN IT on February 17, 2013, 09:01:25 PM
"As far as body panels, who in their right mind is going to believe a 40+ year car has all their original panels. "
I take offense to that remark... :rotz:
Me too.Except I read the next sentence as "those that have original panels are in the minority". I suppose it could have also been "those that believe it are in the minority". I stopped buying stuff that requires me to assemble a large part of the car.
Troy
Quote from: WINGIN IT on February 17, 2013, 09:01:25 PM
"As far as body panels, who in their right mind is going to believe a 40+ year car has all their original panels. "
I take offense to that remark... :rotz:
Boy are you touchy! Seems like you took it the wrong way. I am just saying I would not even mention body panels ie, quarter, trunk etc were ever replaced, it is just a given. Except for Troy's car, but who else keeps their car in a Giant Hefty Freezer Bag! :icon_smile_cool:
BTW.. my Hemi does have all original panels, though there may be a patch panels made from original Mopar sheetmetal here and there with a skimming of bondo, but the complete trunk was replaced.
Take a Valium and calm down. :cheers:
"Take a Valium and calm down. "
With an avatar like that Johnny, I think YOU'RE the one who needs the valium :lol:
Must be all that city livin... :yesnod: ;)
I do, for my back, best muscle relaxant on the market. Helps to cope with city living too as a extra benefit. Maybe if I live to retire, will move to the hills, make moonshine, then all I have to worry about is the revenuers. :yesnod:
Well you half-way there to bein' a moonshiner - ya got some good fast cars.... :icon_smile_big:
I hope to see this car saved. It will be a great story and may even have a TV show about the restoration. I am sure the Mopar magazines will be in on the action as well. 50 years from now when it goes for sale the buyer will have all the documentation needed to make his/her purchase. Nothing will be hidden and the car will not be misrepresented. That is all that can be asked.
You are taking on a challenge most would shy away from. I tip my hat to that type of dedication.
Quote from: duanesterrr on February 19, 2013, 09:58:47 AM
I hope to see this car saved. It will be a great story and may even have a TV show about the restoration. I am sure the Mopar magazines will be in on the action as well. 50 years from now when it goes for sale the buyer will have all the documentation needed to make his/her purchase. Nothing will be hidden and the car will not be misrepresented. That is all that can be asked.
You are taking on a challenge most would shy away from. I tip my hat to that type of dedication.
:yesnod: :yesnod: I agree it will never be worth as much as other daytona's and have an * or a little stigma with it. The car has enough documentation and original drive train I believe you can use enough of the original its worth a try to make it a daytona again .
"It's my favorite hammer. I've replaced the handle three times and the head twice, but it's still my favorite old hammer."
Quote from: thehemikid on February 17, 2013, 02:18:54 AM
:D
Wow, do you know how many years ago I made that re-body tag support sketch? It's so old I couldn't even find it until just now. :smilielol: :smilielol:
:scratchchin:...been save'n it fer ya fera long time, ...figger'd ya'd need it again sometime. :rofl: :smilielol:
Quote from: thehemikid on February 19, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
:scratchchin:...been save'n it fer ya fera long time, ...figger'd ya'd need it again sometime. :rofl: :smilielol:
:smilielol: That's great, thanks. :smilielol:
Quote from: Old Moparz on February 19, 2013, 04:08:11 PM
Quote from: thehemikid on February 19, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
:scratchchin:...been save'n it fer ya fera long time, ...figger'd ya'd need it again sometime. :rofl: :smilielol:
:smilielol: That's great, thanks. :smilielol:
You nuttin' but a 21st Century Schizoid Man.... :D
:D
Manfred Mann? That "ain't my cup of meat" rather be dining on Lark's Tongue in Aspic ... :D :yesnod:
Just an update on the Daytona. It should be in Detroit sometime in the middle of June. About the same time as the wing warrior meet in Ann Arbor. I would take it to the meet but I just started a new job and can't afford to come out which kinda sucks seeing it will be right there. I do still need to arrange shipping it from Detroit to portland.
well guess what showed up in my parking lot at work today
Daytona in the bed of a truck , wow more power to you brother
That's quite a pile of crumpled rust you have there.
Quote from: Ghoste on July 03, 2013, 11:08:33 AM
That's quite a pile of crumpled rust you have there.
canadian crumpled crispy rust , Not mine it was just passing thru :yesnod:
That looks like NW's ravine charger
Quote from: nascarxx29 on July 03, 2013, 11:17:11 AM
That looks like NW's ravine charger
good guess seeing as i posted the pictures in his thread :icon_smile_big:
I found on here originally .Graveyard carz got there work cut out for them .If they take it on :Twocents:
http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/lounge-42/what-waste-196610/
Tags and title are intact.
Quote from: Ghoste on July 03, 2013, 11:49:04 AM
Tags and title are intact.
Yeah, in the same envelope....... ::)
Well it showed up in my driveway yesterday. Where will it show up next. :icon_smile_question: :shruggy: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Quote from: talkiemopar on July 03, 2013, 01:23:43 PM
Well it showed up in my driveway yesterday. Where will it show up next. :icon_smile_question: :shruggy: :popcrn: :popcrn:
got a back glass and a hood from you :scratchchin: i wonder what else you have been hiding from me he got :shruggy: :nana:
He said you only talked one of his ears off :shruggy: your slipping
Quote from: moparstuart on July 03, 2013, 11:04:12 AM
well guess what showed up in my parking lot at work today
Daytona in the bed of a truck , wow more power to you brother
:yesnod: :cheers:
is that the original fire wall ? looks like a 70 & up voltage regulator
:popcrn:
Only one ear off huh, Rick is partially retired maybe?
Quote from: tan top on July 03, 2013, 02:04:45 PM
Quote from: moparstuart on July 03, 2013, 11:04:12 AM
well guess what showed up in my parking lot at work today
Daytona in the bed of a truck , wow more power to you brother
:yesnod: :cheers:
is that the original fire wall ? looks like a 70 & up voltage regulator
:popcrn:
yes but in the 5 or 6 years this thing was on the road it lead a very hard life
it was brown new , then white red and green are all over the car to so it had several paint jobs in its short life on the road . Who knows what all they did to it was running a 383 for a while .
The orginal 440 block was down there in the ravine though wasn't it?
Quote from: Ghoste on July 03, 2013, 02:27:14 PM
The orginal 440 block was down there in the ravine though wasn't it?
i'm not sure it was in the ravine or if the guy tracked it down and found it with the paper work and tags and stuff the original owner had ? but he does have the original block ( hurt block ) it was buried in the truck .
I'm fairly certain I have photos of it down in the ravine with the rest of the wreck. Which has nothing to do with it running a 383 really, I just wondered was all. Did the 440 get rebuilt and hurt again, did it get hurt but saved and then trashed with the rest of the car?
John, can't wait to see it when you get home. Travel safe my friend... Glad to see your making the rounds. :)
Quote from: C_stripes on July 03, 2013, 02:48:17 PM
John, can't wait to see it when you get home. Travel safe my friend... Glad to see your making the rounds. :)
dont get to excited Jeremy :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: moparstuart on July 03, 2013, 02:24:43 PM
Quote from: tan top on July 03, 2013, 02:04:45 PM
Quote from: moparstuart on July 03, 2013, 11:04:12 AM
well guess what showed up in my parking lot at work today
Daytona in the bed of a truck , wow more power to you brother
:yesnod: :cheers:
is that the original fire wall ? looks like a 70 & up voltage regulator
:popcrn:
yes but in the 5 or 6 years this thing was on the road it lead a very hard life
it was brown new , then white red and green are all over the car to so it had several paint jobs in its short life on the road . Who knows what all they did to it was running a 383 for a while .
crikey been through it , who knows what was done then :scratchchin:
thanks for the info Stuart :cheers: :2thumbs:
Also got the latch tray brace that is spot welded to the radiator core support. The hood is a real Daytona hood. :drool5: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :smilielol:
It actually looks fairly intact in the photo, was it salvageable?
Hood has rust on the bottom side, but I think it can be saved. Rick.
Any other spottings or stops for more parts an pieces??? ??? ??? he planned too bee back in oregon on the 4th??? well we are all waiting an watching for more info,thanks.. oook sleep afew hrs and then more pixs an info,please,hahaha.. latter DJ out west :cheers: :popcrn: :drool5::popcrn: :drool5: :popcrn: :drool5: :lol:
I got home lastnight just in time for some fireworks. Had a front wheel bearing blow out in the truck just outside Pendleton yesterday. Had AAA to us to shucks (oreillys) and they had a hub/bearing in stock and loaned me the tools to replace it in there parking lot. That was the longest drive ive ever taken in one trip but its finally over. Felt so good to sleep in my bed instead of a truck seat. What doesn't fell good is now I have to go to work. :brickwall:
Quote from: Nwcharger on July 05, 2013, 10:29:51 AM
I got home lastnight just in time for some fireworks. Had a front wheel bearing blow out in the truck just outside Pendleton yesterday. Had AAA to us to shucks (oreillys) and they had a hub/bearing in stock and loaned me the tools to replace it in there parking lot. That was the longest drive ive ever taken in one trip but its finally over. Felt so good to sleep in my bed instead of a truck seat. What doesn't fell good is now I have to go to work. :brickwall:
dont you hate it when life and work get in the way of playing cars :icon_smile_big:
No kidding! Remember when you were a kid and you thought how cool it would be when you were a grown up and you'd get to roll around in a bunch of life sized Hot Wheels?
Quote from: Ghoste on July 05, 2013, 11:15:45 AM
No kidding! Remember when you were a kid and you thought how cool it would be when you were a grown up and you'd get to roll around in a bunch of life sized Hot Wheels?
oh wait thats what we do :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol: play cars all day long
:shruggy: :icon_smile_question: So many miles an so many states in a short time.. Sure hope ya took an plan too post more pixs???
like what else was stu hiding at his yard???
what else was at talk ya ears off ;s place???
did ya see any neat cars on ya travels???
well just searching for THE NEXT MOPAR FIX,, i canfess i am a addict,,mopar an rust junkie.ha ha ha :smilielol:
Latttter DJ :D :D :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs:
DJ, You should come up, there is plenty of rust to see over here at Johns. :)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h4/Jeremymacdonald/966BD1EB-3CD8-4434-8932-7C8C30BF3163-429-00000036D9A84D9F_zpsfb53199d.jpg) (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/Jeremymacdonald/media/966BD1EB-3CD8-4434-8932-7C8C30BF3163-429-00000036D9A84D9F_zpsfb53199d.jpg.html)
In all seriousness, John has a lot of really cool stuff around his place. Then depending on the day, we could take a cruise up to wildcat. If you come up before the 30th, I will still be available to go just about any day as the doc still hasn't released me for work.
Hope your doing well my friend.
Jeremy
That is a hot mess right there. :'(
Just por15 the whole setup she will look like new.....
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on July 12, 2013, 09:50:04 AM
Just por15 the whole setup she will look like new.....
Yeah, then just get the industrialized version of a 3D printer, scan the rest of the parts, and *BAM* - the ultimate do it yourself project. :2thumbs: :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: WINGIN IT on July 12, 2013, 10:55:37 AM
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on July 12, 2013, 09:50:04 AM
Just por15 the whole setup she will look like new.....
Yeah, then just get the industrialized version of a 3D printer, scan the rest of the parts, and *BAM* - the ultimate do it yourself project. :2thumbs: :icon_smile_big:
a guy i know has one at his work,been thinkin about printing some daytona wings.
My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.
Quote from: cdr on July 12, 2013, 06:15:47 PM
Quote from: WINGIN IT on July 12, 2013, 10:55:37 AM
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on July 12, 2013, 09:50:04 AM
Just por15 the whole setup she will look like new.....
Yeah, then just get the industrialized version of a 3D printer, scan the rest of the parts, and *BAM* - the ultimate do it yourself project. :2thumbs: :icon_smile_big:
a guy i know has one at his work,been thinkin about printing some daytona wings.
I don't understand how a printer (paper) can make anything but ink on paper ?
ACUDANUT, 3D PRINTER!!! go Google it.
Yeah, you didn't think those crazy Asians would do origami by hand forever did you?
Quote from: cdr on July 12, 2013, 06:15:47 PM
Quote from: WINGIN IT on July 12, 2013, 10:55:37 AM
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on July 12, 2013, 09:50:04 AM
Just por15 the whole setup she will look like new.....
Yeah, then just get the industrialized version of a 3D printer, scan the rest of the parts, and *BAM* - the ultimate do it yourself project. :2thumbs: :icon_smile_big:
a guy i know has one at his work,been thinkin about printing some daytona wings.
Say whaaaat :icon_smile_big:
NO. ::)
Quote from: moparstuart on July 12, 2013, 08:09:04 PM
My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.
I think you better talk to The HAND , Spicoli ... :smilielol:
Was real good ta meet ya john an jeremy at woodburn sunday. sure were lots of great mopars,hemis and race cars.
last yr 2-3 birds an danes yellow tona,but this yr just 1 lonely wing car. just 1 funny green thing with big wing an nose and that funny engine under the hood with the wires going into the top of the valve covers,oh plug wires.lol....
i love that 69 dart with the 6.1 hemi but lots of hemi for a lite dart.so many hemis cant remember them all so i took some pix old school camera ,real pixs..
lots of chargers showing and few racing 2nd gen an few 1st gen. i stayed till the end at 5 ish ..old 74 dodge beat truck beat the 07 diesel for win in trucks . and the copper 67 belvedere took the final in cars as new challenger red lighted in finalls . so at least this yr it was not just new crap winning,like last yr.
great talking an see ya again ,get lots done an post away. lattter DJ :cheers: :2thumbs: :popcrn:
Just leave it in a pile for about 1,000,000 years and evolution will put it all back together better than it ever was in the beginning. ::)
Benji
NW Charger, when I came across the posting I was full of high hopes for you! I all wise root for the underdog and love to prove people wrong!
Reason my 69 Charger was saved after it broke in half from rust was because the person I wanted to sale it to only offered me $500.00 and told me "Ken, you know and I Know you will never fix it and when you are tired of it laying in your driveway call me and I will drag it off"! Car was in paint, new quarters, new interior, new exhaust tip, new front end, good BB engine well just about everything good but the rear frame. :brickwall:
Well he pissed me off, don't tell me I cannot do something! So I backed half the car, got her drivable and went over to Dave house and melted the tires in his driveway! :2thumbs:
But, with what I have seen of the Daytona remains, well I am sorry to say there is no car, just remains. I have ran body shops for 20 years.
Now a couple of ideas, I love Wing Cars and hate to see the remain trashed!
1. Graft any usable parts into the Joe Dirt car like the fire wall and trunk vin numbers (make sure the correct Vin stays in places) and make it a tribute car! Make the current Joe Dirt car match the original Daytona is ever way.
2. Again make a Tribute Daytona but pull the remains behind the clone. Way I look at it there is no such thing as a real Daytona ( Boy I am going to get some hate comments from that ) when the body rolled down the line it was per chances which one became a Hemi, RT, Daytona or a 318 car.
Finally, lets faces it Maw Mopar did not make Daytona's, it was Creative Industry.
I will shut up now and wait for the faces slapping to began!
Cuda Ken
PS, the Daytona Clone that Stuart has in his banner, that is mine and a real Daytona wing.
Actually after grafting the numbers onto a donor body, finish oxidizing the remains into rust dust and keep the powder in an appropriately reverent urn in the trunk. ;D
Quote from: cudaken on July 23, 2013, 04:27:29 PM
Way I look at it there is no such thing as a real Daytona ( Boy I am going to get some hate comments from that ) when the body rolled down the line it was per chances which one became a Hemi, RT, Daytona or a 318 car.
Finally, lets faces it Maw Mopar did not make Daytona's, it was Creative Industry.
wouldn't that make the XX vin and A11 package code on the build sheet a bit suspect?...
Any new plans,pix and ideas on this one???
more than happy to come up an help cut up one of the other mopars too use the unibody an parts too start the Daytona build.. think ya 69 coronet wood make a great Daytona and it sure wood not just bee a rebody if ya change all the body skin to daytona body??
well looking for mopar fix an something new in areo section to read an follow..
take care, hey someday ya should come down an buy my 68 440 with auto,have a few 318es and maybee the 85 van it has big bolt pattern .wonder if 85 van brakes will fit on b bodies an didnt nascars have larger bolt pattern?? an it wood bee a dry storage,rooling shed for the daytona parts..latter dj :cheers: :popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs: :D :D ya out there :shruggy:
thats some timing. i just got home with this yesterday. its a 68 that had the left side cut from it to save a wrecked 68 rt. what im thinking is remove the roof, quarter, firewall and inner fenders and starting with the floor and rails from this car. then add the daytona firewall, upper and lower cowl, inner fenders, rockers and door jambs. may even try and save the passenger door frame but it may be to far gone. it would be cool to save the daytona taillight panel too but its fairly bent
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: save what you can and document it
wow? i wood add some wood or weld more supports to hold roof an dutchman up in place. start cleaning an inspecting,get few gallons of ospho rust treater. then get it rollable an hide it from peeping naybers. run some want adds for driver side metal,rear roof front door hinge an post like that .. dont think i wood take the roof off if not bend or twisted.. is that an ac firewall,,was it auto on floor or not??
Wonder who has some roof an cowl sheet metal laying around??? ??? did you see a 383 wing had 3 doors for sale in wash? i know of 1 68 door an have too call the other guy down here who had charger stuff.. witch rocker was still on other floor??
ok for now just asking ,,,dont have too answer it all right now...haha lattter DJ wing dreamer living an dreaming along with your project,lol.. :popcrn: :popcrn: :cheers: :drool5: :2thumbs:
So what did Mark over at Graveyard Cars have to say about this one. Is he going to do it? LEON. :scratchchin: :shruggy:
Quote from: moparstuart on September 08, 2013, 08:20:39 PM
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: save what you can and document it
:yesnod: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: , looking forward to seeing more pictures & progress reports & stuff :yesnod: :cheers: :popcrn:
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 14, 2013, 11:46:50 PM
So what did Mark over at Graveyard Cars have to say about this one. Is he going to do it? LEON. :scratchchin: :shruggy:
i have talked to mark twice in person about restoring this car and both times he was very interested in it and said he wants to see it and to bring it down to him, even commented about putting it on his show. I emailed him a couple months ago about bringing the car down but never got a response. ive thought about just showing up with it loaded but I want to make sure that he will be there and has time to check it out. I would love to have the restore done on tv.
Just ask Stu to put in a good word. He is part owner. :stirthepot:
Quote from: Nwcharger on September 16, 2013, 01:02:17 PM
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 14, 2013, 11:46:50 PM
So what did Mark over at Graveyard Cars have to say about this one. Is he going to do it? LEON. :scratchchin: :shruggy:
i have talked to mark twice in person about restoring this car and both times he was very interested in it and said he wants to see it and to bring it down to him, even commented about putting it on his show. I emailed him a couple months ago about bringing the car down but never got a response. ive thought about just showing up with it loaded but I want to make sure that he will be there and has time to check it out. I would love to have the restore done on tv.
If he does take it, he will be charging big money, be prepared for that. Though he will do a good job. No deals to be had, if that is what you were hoping for. Good luck.
Man, glutton for punishment!! :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: Speedfreak on September 16, 2013, 01:39:45 PM
Quote from: Nwcharger on September 16, 2013, 01:02:17 PM
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 14, 2013, 11:46:50 PM
So what did Mark over at Graveyard Cars have to say about this one. Is he going to do it? LEON. :scratchchin: :shruggy:
i have talked to mark twice in person about restoring this car and both times he was very interested in it and said he wants to see it and to bring it down to him, even commented about putting it on his show. I emailed him a couple months ago about bringing the car down but never got a response. ive thought about just showing up with it loaded but I want to make sure that he will be there and has time to check it out. I would love to have the restore done on tv.
If he does take it, he will be charging big money, be prepared for that. Though he will do a good job. No deals to be had, if that is what you were hoping for. Good luck.
I know its gonna cost a lot and there is no deals or Homie hook ups. It would be cool to have it on tv tho. A resurrected Daytona restoration would be worth watching in my book and not just because its mine, seeing something that far gone and brought back to me is awesome. Maybe he will give me the OREGONIAN discount. Ha now that's funny.. :2thumbs:
oREGON DISCOUNT ,save thousands of dollars on shipping the car an parts back and forth over east coast guys an i will keep tabs on it cheaper as iam 22 blocks from shop. well do ya have ya 68 shell rolling? rip the 4 dr apart to put suspension under 68 shell or one of ya 69es if ya have too have 69 stuff under the daytona project?
well i sent my i will buy nose cone reply out ,so i will focuss on my dart build and stop stressing to find an pay for a b body. still wood like to go for that clone that was for sale in oregon,ooohwellll.
search an read up on JIM Rodenbaugh and his topless charger build party,,,,,,,,,neat way to get help an work done on cars as a group.. he has done 68 topless---67 charger ragtop an 64 dodge ramcharger showcar clone??
well till latter ,take care out there,damn is cold latly. bye DJ ,dartona guy with nose coming :D :D
Monday the 16th i was at welbys an saw an heard a red daytona moving under it own power that many wood have or did walked away from over the past 35 + yrs as a too far gone too costly too repair.
now its on its way home to a proud owner that will love an enjoy a awsum red Daytona. saw lots of other mopars waiting for a chance at a new life there too/
HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND SAVEM IF YA GOT EM,HO HO HO HI HOPES FOR 2014 FOR US ALL.DJ :cheers: :2thumbs:
I have big plans for this car in 2014. I bought an original window plug a couple months ago and may have found a bunch more real Daytona parts, so hopefully when I get back from newhampshire this summer ill have a bed load of Daytona parts. I think that's when I'm gonna start thinning my heard of mopars (just a little bit) and start focusing on the Daytona. :2thumbs:
Wow. I just read the whole topic from the start. My eyes hurt. haha. I would love to see this car come back from the dead. It will be a major undertaking to say the least, but it can be done. It sounds like you are really motivated to fix the ole girl... which is great... but if you decide to pass on it, I may be interested in it. I know that I could do the work myself without a problem, but like you mentioned earlier... I probably could not afford a nice original car. Good luck with your project!!
Justin
"CornDog"
Wait a minute we just got this wing project to oregon,, there may bee a list growing to keep it out here?? as there arnt many wing cars in oregon,think some of us wood bee in line to keep it out here..
Yes Corndog have seen the great work you did on the 2 superbirds,great stuff there.. Hey do ya think we can take up a collection an get ya corndog to come out an work some metal magic on johns daytona??
HAPPY NEW YEAR AN SAVE EM IF YA GOT EM..DJ OUT WEST :cheers: :2thumbs: :cheers:car build party plan your vacation early,, say help save a daytona,,wings rule 2014 new year new plans. :cheers: :2thumbs: :Twocents: :icon_smile_question: :cheers:
Update on my Daytona. Just got back in town a couple weeks ago from a long east coast road trip getting parts. Picked up the window plug, trunk lid, wing washers, apillar trim and a complete rear clip from a rust free 69 charger. Non Daytona related that I also picked up is my 70 v code superbee shell and b-body dana 60. I have a lead on an original nose and wing so after I pick those up I should have most of the original Daytona parts that are hard to find. Finally loaded the Daytona and took it down to graveyard carz so mark could have a good look at it. He will let me know in a few weeks if he will take on the restoration. I sure hope he does. Like I said to mark earlyer (this is a true graveyard car and should be resurrected from the dead) the fact that this car is still around and not in a metal yard and completely gone to me makes even more of a reason bring it back. I want to thank dodgecharger.com and all its moderators for having such an awesome site. Because of dodgecharger.com I own a Daytona, and a very well known one at that. :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
I hope your persistence pays off. You are sure going the extra mile (or should I say 8,000 miles) to make this happen. :popcrn: :popcrn:
Whats the going rate for putting something like this together 100-150k ? :popcrn:
Quote from: Nwcharger on August 02, 2014, 07:33:14 PM
Update on my Daytona. Just got back in town a couple weeks ago from a long east coast road trip getting parts. Picked up the window plug, trunk lid, wing washers, apillar trim and a complete rear clip from a rust free 69 charger. Non Daytona related that I also picked up is my 70 v code superbee shell and b-body dana 60. I have a lead on an original nose and wing so after I pick those up I should have most of the original Daytona parts that are hard to find. Finally loaded the Daytona and took it down to graveyard carz so mark could have a good look at it. He will let me know in a few weeks if he will take on the restoration. I sure hope he does. Like I said to mark earlyer (this is a true graveyard car and should be resurrected from the dead) the fact that this car is still around and not in a metal yard and completely gone to me makes even more of a reason bring it back. I want to thank dodgecharger.com and all its moderators for having such an awesome site. Because of dodgecharger.com I own a Daytona, and a very well known one at that. :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Glad you finally made it home safe John, it was a trip you won't soon forget I'm sure. I look forward to seeing your Daytona project get going, whether it's on TV or not. Best of luck along the way...
Mike
that's some good stuff!
be sure to get the updates coming.....
Its one of 2 written off daytonas thats making a comeback.Was there a back story on its fate.I happened across this other remains daytona back story and how it became mangled beyond repair
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,111638.0.html
Quote from: nascarxx29 on August 03, 2014, 06:43:21 PM
Its one of 2 written off daytonas thats making a comeback.Was there a back story on its fate.I happened across this other remains daytona back story and how it became mangled beyond repair
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,111638.0.html
Honestly I think I know who has that car and if it is it (which I'm almost positive it is) its being restored. his wrecked at 100+ and is a green/green 4 speed car.
This car is on Graveyard Cars Facebook page right now, asking people if it can be saved....
Im gonna piss off a lot of people on here but if that "Daytona" is rebuilt it will just be a re-body in my eyes... :Twocents:
Quote from: A12 Superbee on August 03, 2014, 07:59:35 PM
This car is on Graveyard Cars Facebook page right now, asking people if it can be saved....
https://www.facebook.com/graveyardcarz/posts/10152284205222918
Quote from: Indygenerallee on August 03, 2014, 08:42:31 PM
Im gonna piss off a lot of people on here but if that "Daytona" is rebuilt it will just be a re-body in my eyes... :Twocents:
I agree.
best facebook quote of the lot
"anytime a daytona dies, a 318 charger gains a wing"
Quote from: Indygenerallee on August 03, 2014, 08:42:31 PM
Im gonna piss off a lot of people on here but if that "Daytona" is rebuilt it will just be a re-body in my eyes... :Twocents:
I respect your opinion 100% and in no way does it upset me. But can I ask why? I still plan on using every single piece of the original body as i possibly can. I know there's a fine line with resto and rebody for some but the way I see it is if you have more than just numbers, and are willing to devote the time and money to fix what is left of the car, and are willing to completely document everthing done, then there's no difference in this car than a car that needs quarters, floors and roof. A rebody i my opinion would be simply pulling the numbers and putting them on another car. If I wanted to do that I would have put them on my clone 2 years ago and been done with it. This hobby is about passion for these cars and they should be brought back if they're still around. If this car was literally just numbers restoration would never happen. At least by me.
The classic '"rebody" definition is swapping numbers from one car to another. But how much sheet metal has to remain to NOT be a rebody?
Honestly, by weight, how much do you think can be saved? 5%? 10?. At even 20% (which I do not see as possible) = the car will have had most all of the sheet metal replaced. Hard not to call that rebodied just because you take a longer, slower, and more expensive way of replacing nearly everything.
There will never be agreement on this one. Like you said, the important thing is that another Daytona gets back on the road. I'm rooting for you!
I guess the question to ask is: At what point is a vehicle no longer a vehicle? We've had members here and fellow Mopar brothers and sisters on other sites that literally took a less valuable car down to just a firewall and inner roof structure and still have a car that gets :2thumbs: and :cheers: Now we have a valuable car getting redone with at least a firewall and a few other pieces and getting :RantExplode: :rotz: :brickwall:
This hobby could really use a standard definition.
I applaud the owner of these pieces for being upfront on what he is doing and plans to do. Being upfront is a lot more than some others have done in similar circumstances.
This seems to me to be a few pieces of a car that once existed, and a title. From what little I know about cars, a title is an instrument that conveys ownership of an object in an organized manner so that ownership can be traced in a legal manner. Again from what little I know, an automobile title is not a document that allows someone to manufacture a car. I believe very few entities actually have the legal authority and ability to actually manufacture an automobile.
I don't understand how anyone can say "my Daytona" in this case in the context of anything except the title and a few pieces.
Grafting these few pieces together with pieces of a bunch of other cars doesn't make a real Daytona. It makes a Frankenstein. I just do not believe someone can manufacture a car, with a bunch of diverse pieces, simply by saying all the pieces were made 45 years ago by Chrysler. A 1969 318 Charger with original Daytona parts on it is not a real Daytona either, it is a clone. Chrysler made all the real 1969 Daytonas in 1969. I get that making this whole thing a giant heroic project may seem a great undertaking. I do not think one gets "extra credit" for a heroic effort.
It just seems like a sad deal. For me, the idea that anyone could use a few pieces and with those pieces create a driving Daytona is a sad reflection on misplaced values. I understand the desire to have something, it being out of financial sight, and grasping for any way to imagine that one really might somehow get it. Saying "someone else has done way worse than this ", is what a teenager says to their parent when they don't get to stay out on a Friday night.
From the pictures and text shown, to me, whatever this car was appears to have left this earth a long time ago. I feel sad for the owner of the remaining pieces.
Quote from: JB400 on August 04, 2014, 01:12:21 AM
I guess the question to ask is: At what point is a vehicle no longer a vehicle? We've had members here and fellow Mopar brothers and sisters on other sites that literally took a less valuable car down to just a firewall and inner roof structure and still have a car that gets :2thumbs: and :cheers: Now we have a valuable car getting redone with at least a firewall and a few other pieces and getting :RantExplode: :rotz: :brickwall:
This hobby could really use a standard definition.
Perhaps it's as simple as: The original car to be restored needs to be able to roll on it's own 4 wheels. :shruggy:
That would suggest enough integrity of the car remains. :Twocents:
Quote from: odcics2 on August 04, 2014, 04:05:52 AM
Quote from: JB400 on August 04, 2014, 01:12:21 AM
I guess the question to ask is: At what point is a vehicle no longer a vehicle? We've had members here and fellow Mopar brothers and sisters on other sites that literally took a less valuable car down to just a firewall and inner roof structure and still have a car that gets :2thumbs: and :cheers: Now we have a valuable car getting redone with at least a firewall and a few other pieces and getting :RantExplode: :rotz: :brickwall:
This hobby could really use a standard definition.
Perhaps it's as simple as: The original car to be restored needs to be able to roll on it's own 4 wheels. :shruggy:
That would suggest enough integrity of the car remains. :Twocents:
So would my 70 v code 4 speed superbee be considered a rebody because the right rear framerail is toast and it can only roll on 3 wheels? Do you consider any of the real race daytonas or birds rebodied or do those not count? So every Mopar that has had the rear frame rails, quarters, floors replaced due to rust is a rebody because it didn't have integrity to no longer safely drive? I don't think I agree.
Nwcharger,
Save your breath and don't get into it.
Theres going to be enough of that along the way, don't get burned out before you get started!
Quote from: FJ5WING on August 04, 2014, 07:18:01 AM
Nwcharger,
Save your breath and don't get into it.
Theres going to be enough of that along the way, don't get burned out before you get started!
Agreed...... Just be honest and everything will fall into place............. If you want to save this Daytona, then save it..... It is a passion, go with it........... Granted, the amount of dollars recouped if ever sold will probably be way short of the dollars spent on the Restoration / Resurrection. If one can live with that, go for it.......... :2thumbs:
Its your car, your title, your money , and your time. You are being upfront and honest about what you are doing. I say as long as you are not trying to pass it off as something it is not to some unsuspecting future buyer than by all means bring it back from the dead.
If you think about it, even from the factory these cars started off as one thing and were cobbled together and morphed into something else!
IMO the classic car hobby should have long ago created a separate respectable class of vehicles for swapped VINs.
As in, something that is a bit less valuable than a true original, but still an acceptable way for a valuable/rare car to live on. Let people rebody a specific original car, complete with its VIN tags and matching equipment, no grand theft auto involved in the story, etc.
The collector car hobby doesn't seem to mind it when people basically rebody a car as long as it gets done one-panel-at-a-time. We should just let people swap the VINs, documenting the whole process, keeping a good paper trail & pics of the history, etc, and be done with it. As long as there was once an original version of the exact same car, and as long as there is only one copy of that exact car remaining today, it's basically the same result we have now. But it would mean a lot less labor & butchering the bodies of all the cars involved for the sake of paperwork.
All good points. I suppose when the values shot into the stratosphere and people began doing some shady things to cash, the fear of fraud gave the rebody notion some bad vibes too.
My 2 cents. To me there are two things that need to happen in order for the car to be saved in a way that preserves it as an "original" Daytona. One, the amount of restoration work should be documented and made known to all (which John is up front about doing) and two, some portion (the more the better) of the original shell of the car should be preserved (which John plans on doing). So to me, the car is worth salvaging. Will it ever be worth as much as an un-restored or all original Daytona, no. But that's not the point.
The main point is that an original Daytona is being salvaged from an almost certain death, which is something we can all get behind. The car is what it is, which will affect it's value in the market, but doesn't change what the car means as part of the hobby. I see no reason to scrap it because it'll never be a top dollar car...
Mike
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on August 04, 2014, 08:12:19 AM
IMO the classic car hobby should have long ago created a separate respectable class of vehicles for swapped VINs.
As in, something that is a bit less valuable than a true original, but still an acceptable way for a valuable/rare car to live on. Let people rebody a specific original car, complete with its VIN tags and matching equipment, no grand theft auto involved in the story, etc.
The collector car hobby doesn't seem to mind it when people basically rebody a car as long as it gets done one-panel-at-a-time. We should just let people swap the VINs, documenting the whole process, keeping a good paper trail & pics of the history, etc, and be done with it. As long as there was once an original version of the exact same car, and as long as there is only one copy of that exact car remaining today, it's basically the same result we have now. But it would mean a lot less labor & butchering the bodies of all the cars involved for the sake of paperwork.
what does using the VIN of a non-existent vehicle have to do with this scenario? the less desirable car suddenly ceases to exist solely by VIN number, because THAT car is the one being paraded around with the fake ID of a long dead car? people ooh and ahhh over pretenders at car shows every summer without looking at the vin numbers. most owners of a clone don't hesitate to call it by the real car's name, but do not bother with changing the numbers. the only plausible reason for swapping the numbers on any type of recreation/re-body/clone/tribute is to hopefully increase its value.
as a few here (myself included) have said, it's his decision and his money. i can't see him abandoning his pipe dream now with so much money already invested in just obtaining the carcass. if he does bail on the project, then what? haul it to the recycle center to collect $75 for the scrap metal? that is never going to happen. as long as the numbers for this daytona exist, someone, somewhere, will "recreate" this car. i admire the integrity of the current owner, but he won't live forever. somewhere down the line, someone WILL forget to mention all of this "documentation".
my unasked for opinion is the p.o.s. should have never been dragged up the hill, and the numbers should be destroyed.
In 1979 I bought my first Superbird from Gary Lazar in New City , New York. Gary had just built a Superbird convertible from a wrecked Hemi Superbird and a very rare factory pink Sport Satellite convertible. Right away people were saying, (don't buy a car from him, he builds fake cars".
In 1990 I fixed a Superbird that was nearly torn in half. I used as much of the structure of the car I could and I changed the car to a 4-speed. I also installed a factory power sunroof. I figured since the car was not original anymore, why not change things. I was up front with everyone including the guy that bought the car from me. He ended up selling the car through a broker that listed the car as, "the only Superbird to come from the factory with a power sunroof."
So my point is, it doesn't matter if you are up front with what you are doing, down the road somebody is going to change the story, or omit certain parts of the story. In 50 years nobody is going to care how the car came to be other than it has the correct VIN number, so it must be real. Wingnut
Quote from: Wingnut426 on August 04, 2014, 09:47:56 AM
So my point is, it doesn't matter if you are up front with what you are doing, down the road somebody is going to change the story, or omit certain parts of the story. In 50 years nobody is going to care how the car came to be other than it has the correct VIN number, so it must be real. Wingnut
That's a fact.
Quote from: Aero426 on August 04, 2014, 10:02:10 AM
Quote from: Wingnut426 on August 04, 2014, 09:47:56 AM
So my point is, it doesn't matter if you are up front with what you are doing, down the road somebody is going to change the story, or omit certain parts of the story. In 50 years nobody is going to care how the car came to be other than it has the correct VIN number, so it must be real. Wingnut
That's a fact.
I agree but the only difference I see now is the Internet is huge. This car I think will be forever known. Just type the vin on google. But I do know what your saying. Stories always get messed up over time. Wonder how it will go? Maybe something crazy like a car chase that ended like the vanishing point with a bulldozer.
ah yes, the internet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_CgPsGY5Mw
Quotewhat does using the VIN of a non-existent vehicle have to do with this scenario? the less desirable car suddenly ceases to exist solely by VIN number, because THAT car is the one being paraded around with the fake ID of a long dead car? people ooh and ahhh over pretenders at car shows every summer without looking at the vin numbers. most owners of a clone don't hesitate to call it by the real car's name, but do not bother with changing the numbers. the only plausible reason for swapping the numbers on any type of recreation/re-body/clone/tribute is to hopefully increase its value.
I'm not saying it's a wonderful idea we should all love. I'm saying the idea was called for. IMO the hobby would have been better off with it.
The last 30 years have proven that if you don't give people a legit option for re-creating dead cars, they will resort to illegitimate means or impractical amounts of resto work. At least if the classic car world had created a respectable option for it then there would be less fraud and less impractical resto efforts. Not none, but far less.
Yeah, I know a lot of guys are bothered by rebodies and cars restored around a VIN tag with virtually nothing original remaining.
But there are originality-freaks in the hobby that don't like even less intense restorations. It frustrates them to see most nice restorations (which are usually nicer than original even in the "OE stock" classes) being equally/more popular than original survivors.
It's all an opinion. Where do you draw the line?
QuoteBut can I ask why? I still plan on using every single piece of the original body as i possibly can.
From what I have seen of the parts of the car left there just isn't much there, IMO if over 50% is missing/gone/unusable then in my terms of thinking its a re body, I guess if you have that kind of money to put into basically bringing back a VIN plate and will have WAY more money into it then what you could buy a nice restored original Daytona for.
Quote from: Indygenerallee on August 04, 2014, 02:42:31 PM
QuoteBut can I ask why? I still plan on using every single piece of the original body as i possibly can.
From what I have seen of the parts of the car left there just isn't much there, IMO if over 50% is missing/gone/unusable then in my terms of thinking its a re body, I guess if you have that kind of money to put into basically bringing back a VIN plate and will have WAY more money into it then what you could buy a nice restored original Daytona for.
I see your point but it's all subjective. One famous Mopar guy (we'll refer to him anonymously here as Galen), suggested I part out my 500 because the fender tag and b/c sheet are missing. Another offered me twice what I paid for it so he could make a Daytona clone. I've chosen to keep it and will (soon I hope) bring it back to life. To you the break-up point is 50%, to me it's much higher, to each his own. There is no one answer. Personally, I'd prefer we try to salvage every one of these beasts now, because a generation or two down the line will have no interest in doing so. If the cars are chopped up now, that's it.
For many folks in the "hobby" today the idea that someday these cars will be worth half (or even less) than what they are worth today is impossible to accept. They have too much invested or they expect to retire when they finally sell "the collection". To me, I'm in it because I love the cars and I love driving them. Wingnut is right, you never know what can happen down the road but one thing is for sure, if we scrap John's Daytona now, it'll never go down any road again. To me, that would be a real shame...
Like the Bugatti raised from the lake in Italy, there is some intrinsic value in the wreckage as it sits. Although the Bugatti is helped because it still looks a whole lot like a car.
look ya'll, we're famous
http://bangshift.com/general-news/car-features/left-dead-ditch-newfoundland-ravine-daytona/
am i overlooking any usable parts in these photos?
Quote from: Aero426 on August 04, 2014, 03:50:37 PM
Like the Bugatti raised from the lake in Italy, there is some intrinsic value in the wreckage as it sits. Although the Bugatti is helped because it still looks a whole lot like a car.
3 wheels and a peg leg! :cheers: Arrrghhh, Matey!!
Hi Aero's.
Wonderful discussion and well worth the read.
My neighbours house burnt down after a boiler fire, so what's the relevance???
It was rebuilt with all new bricks, mortar, wood, paint, electrics, modern insulation etc.
Its problems were put right as the original build was quite shabby!
It wasn't rebuilt by the ORIGINAL builders, but a team of competent builders with modern tools and materials.
In all cases its a better house worth more money than mine, as its larger and more ECO now!
When they sell the house will this help or hinder the sale???
It probably won't even be mentioned unless a FULL search is done.
So whats this little house worth?
About the same as a Hemi Daytona LOL!!! :nana:
You can live in a house but can't drive it, you can drive a Daytona but you CAN live in it?
I know a guy in LA that lives in an MG, oh yes and another who lives in a Coronet(with his wife), and then there's Greg, who used to live in his Cougar! (all totally true)
Remember the poor Folks who don't have that much this Christmas.
At the end of the day, its only a CAR!!! :scratchchin:
But at least you can LIVE IN IT!!! :smilielol:
So you're saying it isn't the same house.
It looks like it on the outside!
Think the Bin numbers got burnt in the fire?
They renamed it 'FENIX'.
5J
You can put the same address on the 2nd house as the first house had, but it's still not the same house.
Hi Aero's,
It was No.18, now it has a name.
It is in all known terms a Re-Creation.
This is how I see all restored cars, they are re-creations!
The Industry manufactures the parts for people to do it!!!
Some Folks even go the extra mile and use original sheetmetal and NOS.
What are the Dynacorn rebodied cars called then???
You can buy 'Heritage' carbodies here in the UK for MG's as they are 'ROTBOXES'.
The car Authorities sees lots of RUSTY DANGEROUS WRECKS out on the roads.
It brought it tough Ministry rules to remove them, good running vehicles with rust issues.
What's the best solution?
Make a batch of well built and redesigned HERITAGE bodies.
Then the enthusiasts can have their recreation and re-creation all in ONE!!! :cheers:
The only problem here is the high dollar cars that high dollar investors want to stay rare!
They only made 503 Daytona's, even if they all get found and fixed, they is still rare LOL!!!
5J, they only made 392 C500's and no ones crying over them!
I'm looking for a frame jig if anyone knows where to find one. I have enough metal to start assembly of the body at this point.
Hi NW.
Good luck with the build!
I've seen a couple 'jigs' on here that are in use at he moment.
Surely those guys would be more than happy to loan you, when they are done.
You could make one real easy with two lengths of RSJ.
All the frame-points are in the manual.
If you start with a full factory floor-pan you are almost there.
If the A-posts are square and perfectly upright, attach the doors and the rest follows on!
Its quite easy once you get started.
Mopar B-body Jig-puzzle.
If I was over there I would do it for you no problemo at all.
5j
I just read an article by Mark Worman in Chrysler Power magazine that he is going to pass on attempting to restore this Daytona. Is that true?
http://chryslerpower.com/VirtualSubscriptions/CP18NovDec14/#p=14
Quote from: wingcarenvy on November 30, 2014, 01:45:03 AM
I just read an article by Mark Worman in Chrysler Power magazine that he is going to pass on attempting to restore this Daytona. Is that true?
http://chryslerpower.com/VirtualSubscriptions/CP18NovDec14/#p=14
I can't see the article but I would guess that's the case. I haven't talked to mark since I took the car down there in August. Kinda sucks but I'm not to worried about it.
Picked up that issue last night. Your right. Mark has no interest in restoring my Daytona. Sure wish he would have told me in person. I had a feeling he passed when he never called me back after bringing it down there. :'(
Quote from: Nwcharger on December 01, 2014, 09:51:36 AM
Picked up that issue last night. Your right. Mark has no interest in restoring my Daytona. Sure wish he would have told me in person. I had a feeling he passed when he never called me back after bringing it down there. :'(
Keep in mind about the debacle GYC got into with Rex's 70 charger rt. After that, I do not see Mark attempting a restoration like yours or Rex's again.
Quote from: moparnation74 on December 01, 2014, 11:26:09 AM
Keep in mind about the debacle GYC got into with Rex's 70 charger rt. After that, I do not see Mark attempting a restoration like yours or Rex's again.
What is the story?
Quote from: wingcarenvy on November 30, 2014, 01:45:03 AM
I just read an article by Mark Worman in Chrysler Power magazine that he is going to pass on attempting to restore this Daytona. Is that true?
http://chryslerpower.com/VirtualSubscriptions/CP18NovDec14/#p=14
No story at that link.
Quote from: DC_1 on December 01, 2014, 02:32:37 PM
Quote from: moparnation74 on December 01, 2014, 11:26:09 AM
Keep in mind about the debacle GYC got into with Rex's 70 charger rt. After that, I do not see Mark attempting a restoration like yours or Rex's again.
What is the story?
He is referring to the story of the green 1970 Charger sent to GYC with heavy rear end damage. The GYC portion was botched in a major way. The car had hidden damage from prior repairs. The most recent repair by GYC appears to have been performed by inept technician(s). How the car got out of the shop thrown together the way it was, is amazing.
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=113394.0;attach=226793;image)
There was a lengthly thread about it here.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,113394.0.html (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,113394.0.html)
Quote from: Aero426 on December 01, 2014, 04:18:21 PM
Quote from: DC_1 on December 01, 2014, 02:32:37 PM
Quote from: moparnation74 on December 01, 2014, 11:26:09 AM
Keep in mind about the debacle GYC got into with Rex's 70 charger rt. After that, I do not see Mark attempting a restoration like yours or Rex's again.
What is the story?
He is referring to the story of the green 1970 Charger sent to GYC with heavy rear end damage. The GYC portion was botched in a major way. The car had hidden damage from prior repairs. The most recent repair by GYC appears to have been performed by inept technician(s). How the car got out of the shop thrown together the way it was, is amazing.
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=113394.0;attach=226793;image)
There was a lengthly thread about it here.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,113394.0.html (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,113394.0.html)
Thanks, missed that one......Interestng read
Quote from: ACUDANUT on December 01, 2014, 02:38:57 PM
Quote from: wingcarenvy on November 30, 2014, 01:45:03 AM
I just read an article by Mark Worman in Chrysler Power magazine that he is going to pass on attempting to restore this Daytona. Is that true?
http://chryslerpower.com/VirtualSubscriptions/CP18NovDec14/#p=14
No story at that link.
When I get home from work ill scan the article and post it.
The guy driving the car behind was thinking ''is that a 71 color'' on a 70 Charger and why is there 71 exhaust tips on there, CRASH!!! :smilielol:
MUST HAVE BEEN A WINGCAR to hit it down so low?
Looks like they will be needing a Jig too.
I would go the extra mile and make a Daytona outta it! :cheers:
5J
ps There's a guy in LA than can fix 'ANYTHING'.
HIS MOTTO IS, '' SAVE AS MUCH ORIGINAL METAL AS POSSIBLE''!!! :2thumbs:
HE WILL ALWAYS GO THE EXTRA MILE for a Mopar!!! :pushup: :pushup: :pushup:
many Wingcars already saved from EXTINCTION. :engel016:
Quote from: 500Jon on December 02, 2014, 05:27:17 AM
The guy driving the car behind was thinking ''is that a 71 color'' on a 70 Charger and why is there 71 exhaust tips on there, CRASH!!! :smilielol:
MUST HAVE BEEN A WINGCAR to hit it down so low?
Looks like they will be needing a Jig too.
I would go the extra mile and make a Daytona outta it! :cheers:
5J
ps There's a guy in LA than can fix 'ANYTHING'.
HIS MOTTO IS, '' SAVE AS MUCH ORIGINAL METAL AS POSSIBLE''!!! :2thumbs:
HE WILL ALWAYS GO THE EXTRA MILE for a Mopar!!! :pushup: :pushup: :pushup:
many Wingcars already saved from EXTINCTION. :engel016:
Yes, many and one more on the way!
I just emailed you!
:cheers:
What is the difference whether you build out from the existing parts or attach them to a junkyard body shell other than major cost building out(and not as good of an end result) as opposed to attaching your existing parts to a junkyard body shell, resulting in a much better, and less expensive, restoration. :shruggy: frankly, I would buy a junkyard body shell and have at it! It's not like you are hiding anything from the public. There isn't any reason why this car shouldn't be resurrected.........go for it!
:2thumbs:
Its all down to..... when does the body become the CAR???
Somewhere along the production line a man with stamps, STAMPS IT!
Like most Folks, its just a job, he stamps some wonky, some straight and sometimes WRONG!!!
Then further along the dash frame goes in, or is it the other way round???
A sad Daytona story............
A Mopar Guy (Homer) buys his dream-car.
A few years roll past and the nosecone is removed after an accident along with the rad support.
Its fixed back up as a 70 charger and then it gets rearended on the lefthand corner.
A factory quarter skin is put on and the trunk lip numbers go in the trash!
It still has a XX vin tag and dashtag, but it gets stolen and the tags are removed by a CROOK!
All Mr.Crook wanted was the Hemi and the 4-speed for his racecar.
Mr.Crook pushes the car out into the road and the local yard gets called to remove it.
It sits in the Springfield Yard for years............................
Another Guy (Bart) finds a wrecked Daytona in a Quarry and decides to fix it up.
The bodyshell is really rusty and needs everything.
He goes to a local Yard (SpringField) and its his lucky day!
There a 69/70 rustfree Charger shell sitting there looking for a home.
Guess what happens next???
5J
There are more important things to worry about in this World!!! :'( :'( :'(
Except that the wing cars are investment grade and like any collectable that achieves investment grade status it all and always comes down to pedigree. What can be proven without a doubt with paperwork, what history is absolutely provable, what is original. If you pay all the money in this niche only to discover you purchased a rebodied car then you seldom shrug your shoulders and say "no big deal, it still has the same numbers stamped on it as the car I thought I paid a huge dollar for". What if someone found a rotted baseball that was the one to score a win at a significant game but they were able to use the stitching in a different ball that may have been from the same game even, is it still worth all the money?
Now if you want a driver, have at it. But 90% of the time these rebodies pop up again later only to be purported as the same car when in fact they are not, they are the same identification numbers placed on an entirely different car. If it didn't matter, a lot of the rebody crowd wouldn't go to the trouble to get the numbers on there, they would all be perfectly happy with clones.
Either way, it will be a clone. There is nothing there to restore.
Wait till 'Dolly' finds out she's a clone and not of natural birth!
She is gonna be well upset!
I see years of counselling and a huge bill at the end.
If only Peeps had looked after these cars better?
There would be enough to go round LOL! :2thumbs:
What would spend our time fixing then, Shevvies and rusty Frauds?
What a waste of time that would be! :shruggy:
Not sure I want a Daytona now, too much greif!!! ::)
Glad I got a rustfree C500, but no one cares about them as much as Wingers LOL!!! :scratchchin:
Just look at the state of some of them C500's in too!
If the history of the car is publicly known and documented there isn't any danger of fraud down the road. The internet has changed all that! If it's a re-body then so be it, at least all the parts from the original are incorporated in the resurrection of the car. Will it be worth as much as a car that is "pure bred", no, but that doesn't mean it's worth nothing!
I'll put it this way, if the resurrection was documented and the price was fair, I would consider buying the car just because the story is so cool surrounding it, and I own a pedigree Daytona!
I am puzzled as to why people are beating up on this guy for wanting to put another Daytona back on the road, if he were trying to pull something then OK. But, he obviously wants to be on the up & up about doing this. I can just imagine the reaction at shows when people look at pics of what he started with, I'd bet the reaction would be 90+% positive.
:popcrn:
BTW: If this car wasn't ever junked with an auto recycler than he certainly CAN use the parts he has as well as junkyard parts to rebuild the car. Even if the insurance company wrote the car off as "totaled" unless the owner of that car surrendered legal title to the insurance company, the car would remain the legal property of the owner. Contrary to what most believe, you do not have to surrender ownership of a totaled vehicle to the insurance company. It's a trick they use to shove money back in their pocket when they sell your car to a salvage yard.
When the dash VIN & fender tag for XX29L9B414627 were offered for sale in 2010, the ad was reported to the NICB. (National Insurance Crime Bureau) So, if the 'numbers' come back as another car, the person trying to insure it may run into a major obstacle, possibly even criminal charges.
I've seen the pictures and he has the dash with VIN plate attached plus the firewall. If he rebuilds the car and it passes state inspection it is legally insurable. Where is the insurance crime here? True that you cannot(and certainly should not) remove VIN tags end try to sell them, but it is a whole different category when the tag is still attached to the dash/firewall.
Any questions about it should be directed towards the NICB.
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on December 03, 2014, 06:08:36 PM
When the dash VIN & fender tag for XX29L9B414627 were offered for sale in 2010, the ad was reported to the NICB. (National Insurance Crime Bureau) So, if the 'numbers' come back as another car, the person trying to insure it may run into a major obstacle, possibly even criminal charges.
who was selling the dash and fender tag? I bought the car with tags
....and I find it interesting that there are those "big shot self appointed hobby police" that say(rightfully so) that it is illegal to tamper with or remove a VIN tag. Yet, last I knew there was a person selling the stenciling for the VIN tag, as well as the special rosette rivets to attach the plate to the dash. 2 pop rivets for...what was is....$60? Who is policing the police?
Whoever reported this to the NICB should have done their homework I think...... :yesnod:
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on December 03, 2014, 07:06:04 PM
....and I find it interesting that there are those "big shot self appointed hobby police" that say(rightfully so) that it is illegal to tamper with or remove a VIN tag. Yet, last I knew there was a person selling the stenciling for the VIN tag, as well as the special rosette rivets to attach the plate to the dash. 2 pop rivets for...what was is....$60? Who is policing the police?
Whoever reported this to the NICB should have done their homework I think...... :yesnod:
:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :patriot:
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on December 03, 2014, 06:08:36 PM
When the dash VIN & fender tag for XX29L9B414627 were offered for sale in 2010, the ad was reported to the NICB. (National Insurance Crime Bureau) So, if the 'numbers' come back as another car, the person trying to insure it may run into a major obstacle, possibly even criminal charges.
I also see on your web page that the numbers were removed and for sale. that's not true. the numbers are with the car still. along with the numbers matching motor.
Quotethat's not true.
It is true.
You should look into the legal aspects of 'it' before investing any money in what you 'have', that is the best advice I can give you.
The legalities and insurance questions may be a problem for the current owner. That is between him and DMV/insurance. However, it is his restoration and his problem. We can quarterback this all day long, including myself.
If he was being shady about it at all, then why create a public forum on this car?
When you google the VIN there is a link to this forum, a forum that will not be deleted.
Restore it
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on December 03, 2014, 07:26:35 PM
Quotethat's not true.
It is true.
You should look into the legal aspects of 'it' before investing any money in what you 'have', that is the best advice I can give you.
ok maybe in your opinion but if your running a web page for mopar information I would think you would want it to be correct and not just your opinion. im very familiar with the law and if it was just tags I would have passed but its not. its a wadded up car with numbers matching motor. the tags were never for sale alone, the car was. that's where the info is incorrect.
Last post for me in this thread.
The car / hulk / rusted & crushed remains were in one person's possession.
Meanwhile, another person according to him (direct quote from the person with the hulk follows) had the "the tags, drivers door with VIN decal, original transmission, rare Daytona trunk hinges, etc. Those items are available to me for a price. "
I just report what I know, so do not shoot the messenger. ;)
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on December 03, 2014, 07:56:01 PM
Last post for me in this thread.
The car / hulk / rusted & crushed remains were in one person's possession.
Meanwhile, another person according to him (direct quote from the person with the hulk follows) had the "the tags, drivers door with VIN decal, original transmission, rare Daytona trunk hinges, etc. Those items are available to me for a price. "
I just report what I know, so do not shoot the messenger. ;)
I understand completely and have no problems with you personally. I like your page and information you provide and the fact that you hold paperwork to be claimed. :2thumbs: im sure you heard people say they will restore a car and just rebody it a thousand times so me saying that's not my intent means nothing especially since we don't know each other personally. all I can say that im going to save everything I can and bring this car back. I own 3 other chargers and soon a c500 and could have put the tags on one of them years ago and been done with it, but im not a dirt bag and it wouldn't be the same to me personally. I want to be able to take it to shows, tell its story and what it took to bring it back. that's the god honest truth.
If a previous owner of this car lacked accuracy in describing what he had, how can anybody take that as "gospel truth" concerning what he was actually selling? The pictures don't lie, with what he has he can restore this car legally. However he choses to. I wonder if whoever took it upon themselves to erroneously report this to the NICB, without actually viewing what was there and providing evidence to back up their accusations of fraud, would have guts enough to provide the current owner of the car with their name and address so he can file a libel suit in the event that he should have any issues restoring his car. I bet not.
The issue should be aiding in the preservation/resurrection of another Daytona, not how best to discourage a fellow enthusiast about to undertake a major project.
Restore it! :2thumbs: Post up some current pics that are date stamped, that should put the matter to rest concerning the VIN plate/dash top/firewall.
Hi NW,
I am impressed with your bravery and stamina!
To think at the end of all this you may be called 'THE CLONEMAN'.
This has been a 'KANGEROO COURT', as with all car-clubs it seems?
It happened to me too over a small matter of differing opinions.
Nothing on this this scale though!
I see this as a Milestone for all future restorations of this nature.
I BOTH ENVY YOU AND FEAR FOR YOUR RE-CREATION THAT IS 414627!!! :2thumbs:
5J, watching and waiting for the outcome! :scratchchin:
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on December 03, 2014, 10:12:30 PM
If a previous owner of this car lacked accuracy in describing what he had, how can anybody take that as "gospel truth" concerning what he was actually selling? The pictures don't lie...
ah yes, the pictures. here is exactly what the previous "owner" was selling. notice how nice the condition is?
that's because the rest of the scrap metal was left at the bottom of the ravine for years.
Those pics certainly tell a different story. Who is the dope that cut the dash top? The previous pictures show the dash top complete, but with the cut out piece. Obviously whoever did it wanted to save $20 in shipping, duh!(not expecting to sell the car itself).....but this guy did buy the car. Unfortunately, the minute that tag is removed from that piece of dash it does become fraud(much to the annoyance of the $60 for 2 rivets person I am sure LOL).
IMO to stay legal & legit he must restore the original dash top and reattach it to the original firewall. I'm sure this statement will irk a few people here, but the tag still hasn't been removed from the original part/location that it was placed in at the factory, so he is still OK.....but GEEZ his job is tougher now! ::) :eek2:
He'd have to document restoration of the original dash and it's reattachment to the firewall to avoid trouble I think.
Whoever cut the dash was advocating for fraud, but this guy bought the entire car, such as it was, and made it public in this forum. Which tells me that he intended to do the right thing.
How about pics of the dash as it is now and after repair and reattachment of the cut out piece?(I am assuming he has the cut off part as well as the rest of the dash top) :shruggy:
(Former Industrial welder)I'd low temp mig weld it back together from the back side and fill in the top seam with JB cold weld before finishing it off, but cover up the VIN plate so weld spatter doesn't burn a hole in it. :coolgleamA:
In any event it falls into altering, tampering, removal of a Vin.
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on December 04, 2014, 11:37:09 AM
Those pics certainly tell a different story. Who is the dope that cut the dash top?
the "dope" who cut the dash top retrieved the only thing left of that car that had any value all those years ago. the rest of the carcass was dragged out of the ravine at a much later time.
Quote from: moparnation74 on December 04, 2014, 12:48:59 PM
In any event it falls into altering, tampering, removal of a Vin.
bingo.
just like the "hobby police" have been saying from day one.
OMG its T5!
Thats worse than Vin tampering in my book!!! :icon_smile_big:
Lose the vin tag quick and build a clone, B5 with black buckets and a 4-speed!
It will be worth more and no Blowback from DC.COM!!! :slap:
the dash tag was cut out 20 years ago when the car was in the ravine. I do have the rest of the dash and do plan on saving it and rewelding the piece that was cut out. the guy I got the car from pulled the car out of the ravine and located the tags and numbers motor. when I get started ill post detailed pics. :2thumbs:
Sorry, I have been mis-quoting VIN tag rivet prices :slap: ECS Automotive has NOS ones for $29 a pair :shruggy: years ago I recall them being advertised for $60 a pair.
What?, you mean it's cheaper to re-weld the original dash? :shruggy: :smilielol: :lol: :lol:
ECS also has the VIN plate stenciling.....
Gee, why hasn't the FED shut them down for aiding in fraud? :shruggy: Hobby Police, this is a job for you, shut that company down..... :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol: (....superhero music fades in....)
Clearly, as the picture showed the VIN plate was removed. It does not pertain to the rivets only. Tampering and altering will follow thereafter.
As I have said, the legal/DMV ramifications is his problem not mine.
Sometimes the risks outweigh the benefits!
I'll provide the photo. You guys provide captions...
Here's JOHNNY!!!
Have I got the right Film?
500JOHNNY.............
Nope. That's from One flew over the Cuckoo's nest
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on December 03, 2014, 06:08:36 PM
When the dash VIN & fender tag for XX29L9B414627 were offered for sale in 2010, the ad was reported to the NICB. (National Insurance Crime Bureau) So, if the 'numbers' come back as another car, the person trying to insure it may run into a major obstacle, possibly even criminal charges.
It is not illegal to sell VIN tags, broadcast sheets, fender tags or anything else removed from a vehicle. New or old. What is illegal is swapping them to another car, or dealing in stolen parts of any kind. Misrepresenting a vehicle is illegal but can be easily concealed (as we all know). It's also very state specific. In CT for example, they take VIN swapping very seriously (you'll see CT state troopers at classic auto auctions in CT checking VINs). Other states could care less. Bottom-line, you can sell the stuff but most states will come down on those trying to register a mismatched vehicle. With older cars it's much easier to get away with this practice than with a modern vehicle.
Also, you can insure anything. It doesn't need to be correct, roadworthy or even safe to operate off road. You can still insure it. Keep in mind if you've insured a stolen or misrepresented vehicle and you have a claim, you run the risk of your claim getting denied. Example, if you put an XX VIN on a 318 Charger and insure it with Hagerty for the value of a true XX car, and then total it out. They will deny your claim or at best pay you only what a 318 car is worth.
NICB is vital for insurance adjusters. Especially fire and theft handlers (full disclosure, I've worked in auto claims for over 17 years now). However, it's only as accurate as the information provided. NICB tracks a vehicles claim history (and other key events) and is much more reliable than outside companies (like CarFax, which is a joke). However, many claims are never reported so it's not perfect either. NICB will track many things but if someone pulls the tags off my Charger and puts them on another body, how would NICB ever know? Again, it's illegal to swap VINs from one vehicle to another (only the state can re-VIN a street driven motor vehicle) but it still happens.
As far as anyone reporting the sale of a VIN to the NICB, I doubt it will register anywhere, unless an insurance claim or legal action was taken. They may have created an alert for the VIN when this was reported (assuming it was) but that's all. It won't create an alert for insurers or even law enforcement unless the owner of the vehicle files a complaint (or claim).
Lastly, it's important for people to know that law enforcement folks and insurance companies don't generally have the expertise when it comes to classic cars. We know more about these vehicles than most people know about the car they drive everyday, because it's our passion. State DMVs know even less and many states don't require any inspection on cars 40 plus years old anyway, so the burden falls on the collector to do their due diligence when buying/selling these cars. As far as this Daytona goes, NW has the original VIN, engine and documentation re: it's history. So there's no need to worry.
In the Uk, Imported high value Historic cars are checked before registration.
But they can only check the obvious stuff.
Any well done rebody or number change will probably get through.
Its more likely to get found out by insurance fraud.
Those Guys and Gals are RED-HOT on car naughtiness!!! :2thumbs:
Like most things, if its RED FLAGGED as a 'doubtful history' somewhere on the system, then the sniffer dogs will be out.
No matter how much picture evidence there is of a rebuild, a rebody is a rebody!
They are not interested in historic value on rarity, JUST CRIME!!! :yesnod:
This may be a case of Guilty until proven innocent methinks???
Here's JOHNNY, Still looking for a Daytona, 25-years and still waiting!
Its a long way to the 'Pearly-Gates' just to be turned back?
Quote from: 500Jon on December 05, 2014, 09:26:17 AM
Here's JOHNNY!!!
Have I got the right Film?
500JOHNNY.............
from "The Shining". Out of the various choices, I though this would be most fitting, my friend! :2thumbs:
Ok, remember the space alien from the bugs bunny cartoons? Hear his voice in your head as you read this: "0h no... Heavens to mergatroid, the hobby police are after my planet, I will have to eliminate them with my interplanetary disintegrator ray gun...." :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol: :lol: :slap:
"What, me worry?" (Alfred E. Neuman)
Consider this comparison. World War 2 aircraft wrecks have and continue to be recovered and restored and/or used for parts. There are countless examples of planes that were literally destroyed when crashed. They were recovered, and restored using only about 5 percent of the original plane, with a great majority of the parts being hand made. The plane is then registered using it's original serial number. If the FED/FAA is ok with that, and the warbird community accepts it as restored(I am one of them), then why isn't the winged car community fully behind this guy restoring this car? :shruggy:
I see a parallel here, and I think it's more a question of attitude than legality. As with the warbirds, the history of this car will be very publicly known. After all, it is one of 503. I doubt there is any danger of the history getting lost here.
Guess the laws have to change.
But till then:
Quote from: odcics2 on December 05, 2014, 08:18:01 PM
Guess the laws have to change.
But till then:
:2thumbs: :smilielol:
:horse: :eek2: :puke: :police:
At last some sense!!!
69DaytonaSE..... a sensible JUNIOR MEMBER, with a brain and a desire for all the Daytona's to be found and restored to their former GLORY!!!
Come down off your 'High Horses' and embrace the idea that Daytona's aren't an exclusive POLO-CLUB?
THEY WERE MADE, BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE, SO BRAVE MEN COULD RACE THEM FOR OUR NASCAR FUTURE (now PAST) HERITAGE!!! :rofl:
Us time served restorers of 'vintage tin' are itching to repair the once beautiful Wingcars, that were left to rot in roofless-barns, fields, ravines, quarries, JUNKYARDS etc, etc,etc...............
So please be happy for us mere mortals who don't want to buy 'DONE' cars at ASTRONOMICAL prices, but instead, RE-CREATE a marvel of the MODERN WORLD, Daytona's!!! :notworthy:
NO, ok then I stick with me 500 then. :angel:
Where's JOHNNY??? :D
Recreate was a good word choice because to me that's what a rebody is. Its not a restoration its just a recreation of a car that once existed, more a clone than what we typically call clones.
One would have to ask if this much effort would be put into a 6 cylinder '69 Charger... :shruggy: Rare in it's own right.
Good question. I would love to have the money to take a slant six on and bring to to a world class standard without worrying about the net worth of the end result and would definitely do so if I had the means.
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on December 05, 2014, 07:23:49 PM
Consider this comparison. World War 2 aircraft wrecks have and continue to be recovered and restored and/or used for parts. There are countless examples of planes that were literally destroyed when crashed. They were recovered, and restored using only about 5 percent of the original plane, with a great majority of the parts being hand made. The plane is then registered using it's original serial number. If the FED/FAA is ok with that, and the warbird community accepts it as restored(I am one of them), then why isn't the winged car community fully behind this guy restoring this car? :shruggy:
I see a parallel here, and I think it's more a question of attitude than legality. As with the warbirds, the history of this car will be very publicly known. After all, it is one of 503. I doubt there is any danger of the history getting lost here.
This is different. Attaching a Vin and body stamps to a donor car, don't make it real.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on December 06, 2014, 10:08:41 AM
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on December 05, 2014, 07:23:49 PM
Consider this comparison. World War 2 aircraft wrecks have and continue to be recovered and restored and/or used for parts. There are countless examples of planes that were literally destroyed when crashed. They were recovered, and restored using only about 5 percent of the original plane, with a great majority of the parts being hand made. The plane is then registered using it's original serial number. If the FED/FAA is ok with that, and the warbird community accepts it as restored(I am one of them), then why isn't the winged car community fully behind this guy restoring this car? :shruggy:
I see a parallel here, and I think it's more a question of attitude than legality. As with the warbirds, the history of this car will be very publicly known. After all, it is one of 503. I doubt there is any danger of the history getting lost here.
This is different. Attaching a Vin and body stamps to a donor car, don't make it real.
our new friend likes to argue both sides of the fence, although i wonder if he even realizes it. notice that his restored plane scenario uses hand made parts, where as his "restored" daytona scenario simply swaps numbers over to a totally different car shell. it doesn't matter to him which car he's actually restoring, as it "will" become the daytona either way. on a side note, is the plane's serial number referred to the one assigned by the manufacturer? i'm not making an FAA connection there.
Why do some people think that all 503 daytonas were meant to, or even need to, still exist? they were daily driver cars, meant to be used, abused, and discarded. the survival rate is actually above normal for these cars, so they are available for sale pretty much all the time should someone have both the desire and the resources. want one and can't afford it? build a clone and stop obsessing about having XX in the VIN.
greg asked a great question - why are equally rare cars such as a slant six charger not given the same courtesy?
Quote from: held1823 on December 06, 2014, 01:15:47 PM
greg asked a great question - why are equally rare cars such as a slant six charger not given the same courtesy?
What was a special car then, is special now. (For example, a Daytona.) A slant 6 Charger is certainly rare and unusual. But it's still not special.
I
I junked one years ago, so that is one less. :brickwall: Rick.
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on December 05, 2014, 07:23:49 PM
Consider this comparison. World War 2 aircraft wrecks have and continue to be recovered and restored and/or used for parts. There are countless examples of planes that were literally destroyed when crashed. They were recovered, and restored using only about 5 percent of the original plane, with a great majority of the parts being hand made. The plane is then registered using it's original serial number. If the FED/FAA is ok with that, and the warbird community accepts it as restored(I am one of them), then why isn't the winged car community fully behind this guy restoring this car? :shruggy:
I see a parallel here, and I think it's more a question of attitude than legality. As with the warbirds, the history of this car will be very publicly known. After all, it is one of 503. I doubt there is any danger of the history getting lost here.
I can appreciate this line of thought. Perhaps the aircraft line of thinking is more accepted because there are so few of them. In some cases, the plane being returned to flight might be the ONLY operational example, or one of a few. Not like 500 cars which is a high number by comparison. Planes can also fall out of the sky, which means that even intact airframes are extensively reconstructed. Truth in advertising: Some of the planes flying today did not see action in WWII. (That is why they are still here.) But they are representative of what was.
With different collectibles, the George Washington's axe scenario is tolerated better than others. The head has been replaced twice and the handle three times. But it's still George Washington's axe.
Quote from: Aero426 on December 06, 2014, 01:33:09 PM
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on December 05, 2014, 07:23:49 PM
Consider this comparison. World War 2 aircraft wrecks have and continue to be recovered and restored and/or used for parts. There are countless examples of planes that were literally destroyed when crashed. They were recovered, and restored using only about 5 percent of the original plane, with a great majority of the parts being hand made. The plane is then registered using it's original serial number. If the FED/FAA is ok with that, and the warbird community accepts it as restored(I am one of them), then why isn't the winged car community fully behind this guy restoring this car? :shruggy:
I see a parallel here, and I think it's more a question of attitude than legality. As with the warbirds, the history of this car will be very publicly known. After all, it is one of 503. I doubt there is any danger of the history getting lost here.
I can appreciate this line of thought. Perhaps the aircraft line of thinking is more accepted because there are so few of them. In some cases, the plane being returned to flight might be the ONLY operational example, or one of a few. Not like 500 cars which is a high number by comparison. Planes can also fall out of the sky, which means that even intact airframes are extensively reconstructed. Truth in advertising: Some of the planes flying today did not see action in WWII. (That is why they are still here.) But they are representative of what was.
With different collectibles, the George Washington's axe scenario is tolerated better than others. The head has been replaced twice and the handle three times. But it's still George Washington's axe.
There were alot more warbirds built than wing cars. 12000 b17's 4000 b29's 15000 p51's 12000 f6f hellcats and that's just a couple bombers and fighters. And there's still planes out there to be recovered. Like the b29 that burned when trying to recover it. Frozen in time is the name of the documentary. There's a few warbirds lost not too far from me but they are supposedly lost in watershed areas that people are not allowed to enter. I see no difference in bringing back a warbird, my Daytona or even the NASCAR Daytona on eBay. They are all part of American history.
There were more warbirds built but to compare that number to cars is crazy. Their survival rate during inital use was far lower than Chargers and then after the war most of them were scrapped for the badly needed metals for civilian industry. Of the handful maintained after the war, the original owner (the various governments) continued to use and destroy them until scrapping them. A tiny handful were sold to a second owner.
Quote from: Aero426 on December 06, 2014, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: held1823 on December 06, 2014, 01:15:47 PM
greg asked a great question - why are equally rare cars such as a slant six charger not given the same courtesy?
What was a special car then, is special now. (For example, a Daytona.) A slant 6 Charger is certainly rare and unusual. But it's still not special.
pft... those damned wing things were everywhere around this neck of the woods, both then and now.
for the record, i don't think i've ever seen a slant 6 charger, or at least one not perfumed into something it wasn't
Quote from: Ghoste on December 06, 2014, 02:27:03 PM
There were more warbirds built but to compare that number to cars is crazy. Their survival rate during inital use was far lower than Chargers and then after the war most of them were scrapped for the badly needed metals for civilian industry. Of the handful maintained after the war, the original owner (the various governments) continued to use and destroy them until scrapping them. A tiny handful were sold to a second owner.
After the war the army air corp auction quiet alot of planes for civilian use. There was a b17 here in oregon that sat on top of a gas stations fuel pumps for years. It was call the bomber gas station. The guy bought the b17 after the war in colorado at an air corp auction. He flew it back to oregon and crashed landing because he needed a second person to assist landing it. He contacted the air corp and blamed the landing gear for the crash. They gave him another b17 and he went back to colorado with a friend and flew the second one back to oregon where it sat at the gas station until this year. There was also old fighters p51's and others that farmers bought for crop dusters. I would think that out of all the war planes built that there was more than 500 sold after the war to civilians. Maybe not of each variant but as a total.
Quote from: Nwcharger on December 06, 2014, 01:55:54 PM
There were alot more warbirds built than wing cars. 12000 b17's 4000 b29's 15000 p51's 12000 f6f hellcats and that's just a couple bombers and fighters. And there's still planes out there to be recovered. Like the b29 that burned when trying to recover it. Frozen in time is the name of the documentary. There's a few warbirds lost not too far from me but they are supposedly lost in watershed areas that people are not allowed to enter. I see no difference in bringing back a warbird, my Daytona or even the NASCAR Daytona on eBay. They are all part of American history.
As mentioned, the SURVIVAL rate is the only number that matters. There is a reason they wanted to get that B-29 off the glacier. It was completely intact and they thought they could fly it out. They almost made it. How many are flyable today of those 4000 planes? 1 or 2? That's the reason. It would have been a huge payback if they had pulled it off.
Rule of Thumb is...................................... :icon_smile_question:
If its got a WING or TWO its TROUBLE!!! :2thumbs:
This Daytona needs to be Re-constructed and then see what happens at the DMV!
Someone's gonna have a red-face and someone may be well outta pocket?
Do you feel LUCKY NW??? :shruggy:
Roll them DICE and watch the numbers fall.
5J
THIS WILL BE HISTORY IN THE MAKING!!! :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
ps, funny you should say that Greg.
The guy I bought my C500 from also had a nice 6-pot 69 Charger.
I didn't have enough to buy it, but I would have done it right!
Had a 6-pot here with 3-speed manual all waiting for it.
Guess what, I think its a Dayclona now LOL!!! :nana:
Yes i feel lucky. I own a Daytona charger that someday ill drive on the road after being abandoned and left on a hillside for 35 years. :2thumbs:
Quote from: Nwcharger on December 06, 2014, 03:18:28 PM
Yes i feel lucky. I own a Daytona charger that someday ill drive on the road after being abandoned and left on a hillside for 35 years. :2thumbs:
I don't have a problem with this, as long as there is full disclosure. And there is a pecking order to the cars. As long as you are OK with it and fully document how you save the original platform and cowl, have at it.
Quote from: Nwcharger on December 06, 2014, 03:18:28 PM
Yes i feel lucky. I own a Daytona charger that someday ill drive on the road after being abandoned and left on a hillside for 35 years. :2thumbs:
Good on you for taking on the task you must have some great panel beating skills.
The panels are already beaten. ;) :lol: The numbers will live again though and in the end we'll all be fine.
Quote from: held1823 on December 06, 2014, 01:15:47 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on December 06, 2014, 10:08:41 AM
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on December 05, 2014, 07:23:49 PM
Consider this comparison. World War 2 aircraft wrecks have and continue to be recovered and restored and/or used for parts. There are countless examples of planes that were literally destroyed when crashed. They were recovered, and restored using only about 5 percent of the original plane, with a great majority of the parts being hand made. The plane is then registered using it's original serial number. If the FED/FAA is ok with that, and the warbird community accepts it as restored(I am one of them), then why isn't the winged car community fully behind this guy restoring this car? :shruggy:
I see a parallel here, and I think it's more a question of attitude than legality. As with the warbirds, the history of this car will be very publicly known. After all, it is one of 503. I doubt there is any danger of the history getting lost here.
This is different. Attaching a Vin and body stamps to a donor car, don't make it real.
our new friend likes to argue both sides of the fence, although i wonder if he even realizes it. notice that his restored plane scenario uses hand made parts, where as his "restored" daytona scenario simply swaps numbers over to a totally different car shell. it doesn't matter to him which car he's actually restoring, as it "will" become the daytona either way. on a side note, is the plane's serial number referred to the one assigned by the manufacturer? i'm not making an FAA connection there.
Why do some people think that all 503 daytonas were meant to, or even need to, still exist? they were daily driver cars, meant to be used, abused, and discarded. the survival rate is actually above normal for these cars, so they are available for sale pretty much all the time should someone have both the desire and the resources. want one and can't afford it? build a clone and stop obsessing about having XX in the VIN.
greg asked a great question - why are equally rare cars such as a slant six charger not given the same courtesy?
Yes "HELD" once again you err in your thinking....but I suppose common sense to be on the opposite side of the fence from you. I argue on both sides of the fence? Perhaps in your twisted thinking you can attempt to discredit my logic in discussion or debate using the infantile tactic of negative projection, but funny how my train of thought in this matter has obviously been consistent-the exception being to you. ::)
Quote from: Aero426 on December 06, 2014, 03:01:52 PM
Quote from: Nwcharger on December 06, 2014, 01:55:54 PM
There were alot more warbirds built than wing cars. 12000 b17's 4000 b29's 15000 p51's 12000 f6f hellcats and that's just a couple bombers and fighters. And there's still planes out there to be recovered. Like the b29 that burned when trying to recover it. Frozen in time is the name of the documentary. There's a few warbirds lost not too far from me but they are supposedly lost in watershed areas that people are not allowed to enter. I see no difference in bringing back a warbird, my Daytona or even the NASCAR Daytona on eBay. They are all part of American history.
As mentioned, the SURVIVAL rate is the only number that matters. There is a reason they wanted to get that B-29 off the glacier. It was completely intact and they thought they could fly it out. They almost made it. How many are flyable today of those 4000 planes? 1 or 2? That's the reason. It would have been a huge payback if they had pulled it off.
I followed the attempted recovery of the 'Kee-Bird" B-29 Superfortress pretty closely at the time. The crew that attempted the recovery had a partnership, yes. But the motivating factor in their attempt was preservation of history that would become a lasting tribute to honor those who served on these planes. Let's not forget that one member of the recovery crew lost his life in the attempt, and the others pressed on knowing the deceased member would have wanted it that way. They lost a good friend in the attempt, only to lose the plane in the end. Money wasn't a primary motivating factor. B-29's cost more to operate than they bring in touring the airshow circuit. B-24's and B-17's barely break even.
"Keep 'Em Flying" Remember Pearl Harbor.........thanks Dad; S/SGT JPM USAAF '42-'46 :patriot:
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on December 06, 2014, 08:22:52 PM
Quote from: Aero426 on December 06, 2014, 03:01:52 PM
Quote from: Nwcharger on December 06, 2014, 01:55:54 PM
There were alot more warbirds built than wing cars. 12000 b17's 4000 b29's 15000 p51's 12000 f6f hellcats and that's just a couple bombers and fighters. And there's still planes out there to be recovered. Like the b29 that burned when trying to recover it. Frozen in time is the name of the documentary. There's a few warbirds lost not too far from me but they are supposedly lost in watershed areas that people are not allowed to enter. I see no difference in bringing back a warbird, my Daytona or even the NASCAR Daytona on eBay. They are all part of American history.
As mentioned, the SURVIVAL rate is the only number that matters. There is a reason they wanted to get that B-29 off the glacier. It was completely intact and they thought they could fly it out. They almost made it. How many are flyable today of those 4000 planes? 1 or 2? That's the reason. It would have been a huge payback if they had pulled it off.
I followed the attempted recovery of the 'Kee-Bird" B-29 Superfortress pretty closely at the time. The crew that attempted the recovery had a partnership, yes. But the motivating factor in their attempt was preservation of history that would become a lasting tribute to honor those who served on these planes. Let's not forget that one member of the recovery crew lost his life in the attempt, and the others pressed on knowing the deceased member would have wanted it that way. They lost a good friend in the attempt, only to lose the plane in the end. Money wasn't a primary motivating factor. B-29's cost more to operate than they bring in touring the airshow circuit. B-24's and B-17's barely break even.
"Keep 'Em Flying" Remember Pearl Harbor.........thanks Dad; S/SGT JPM USAAF '42-'46 :patriot:
I don't disagree that these people want to preserve history, and I applaud that. The whole Kee Bird mission was risky from start to finish. Had they gotten the plane off the glacier, that by itself would have been worth serious bragging rights. The investment part was in the value of the plane itself, not touring it. Given the story, I can't imagine what the plane would have been worth on the open market.
God Bless America and all her brave men who FOUGHT to free the World of TYRANNY!!! :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Men and women all around the World have given their lives for Freedom and Civility in Europe and elsewhere.
Comparing machines of WAR with a 69 Charger with a nosecone is not even on the scale.
I think you Wingcar Guys need to LIVE and LET LIVE!!!
Be grateful that some Folks even care about Daytona's when 99.999% of the World DON'T!!! :'( :'( :'(
I'm sticking with the C500 crowd, they is much more forgiving?
YEP I'M PAINTING MINE, B5 BLUE NOW, SOD IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :nana: :nana: :nana:
Not sure the C500 crowd is any more forgiving on the topic of rebodies. I know quite a few C500 fans and have not ran into any that are fine with that kind of an illegal act.
Its all about definition at the end of the DAY!
I apologise for the 500 crowd reference.
I speak only for myself.
I WAS REFERRING TO A COLOUR CHANGE, NOT A REBODY!!! :icon_smile_big:
HEAVEN FORBID!!! :slap: :slap: :slap:
I see myself AS 'non-aero' and my car as a 69 R/T Charger with a filled in back window!
A WINGLESS WARRIOR!!! :2thumbs:
Color change, on a 500, have at it. If you own it do what you please. That is my thought. Now when it comes time to sell though it is something that will knock it down in value. I want another 500, and honestly would prefer one that is not numbers matching, and heck one missing a fender tag would be good too. Then I could do with it as I please.
Thats why I like the fact that my RT is so plain, it is numbers matching but other than that it would get overlooked for many many other Chargers by the investment crowd.
Wow. :popcrn:
After looking at the pictures...most of that will buff out....
You know I am a sucker for a lost cause and have taken on some real losing proposition projects in my day from cars to house flips but after looking over the pictures on the GYC Facebook page I have to ask. How is this going to work? I understand the intent is to blend the existing remaining metal back into the final car but again " How exactly is that going to happen. I can understand if the car had been recovered from the ravine just shortly after the bulldozer incident. No matter how bent up it was you could with a lot of care and time straighten out the metal and undertake to incorporate it in to the final build. But looking at the pictures just about every piece of the original car is completely rusted through. Even the piece of the dash that was cut out 20 years ago looks like it is paper thin on the leading edge. I am sorry but there doesn't seem to be anything left to work with here. Maybe I am not seeing it but it looks like a ghost to me.
Is there a substantial list of components not shown that are solid enough to be worth putting on the final car?" :shruggy: :shruggy:
I think the story is great, real or not, rebody, clone or whatever you wanna call it.......any updates?
Quote from: qwick68 on January 02, 2015, 09:13:58 PM
I think the story is great, real or not, rebody, clone or whatever you wanna call it.......any updates?
This "story" is a like a modern day Mary Shelley novel, only the main character is a metal beast :scratchchin:
Well as far as updates I don't really have too much. i have enough metal to start the task but I've been focused on trying to thin my car count and pay off a c500 that I'm buying. The metal that I plan on using from the daytona is the firewall, upper and lower cowl, inner fenders, front shock mounts, front lower core support, outer rockers, door jams rear quarter inner structure that the window regulators attach to, dash frame, rear tail panel. I don't think the front rails are worth messing with as they are pretty toast and Want the car to be safe. I know that all the parts that I save will take many hours of body work and a lot of cash but I'm up for it. :2thumbs:
Happy New Year NW, or HNY2NW!
Don't forget the motto 'use as much original metal as possible'!
There are other Folks on open Forum using alot less OEM than you are!!!
Its just a Daytona thing...WING-Folks are very protective of their 503 Winged Mopars.
They weren't built on a special production line by Aliens at AREA-51...
Just good old fashioned 69 Chargers built by good old boys making a living in Detroit!!! :pity:
Now if Carrol Shelby or Cotton Owens had assembled them, we would be talking GOD-like historics!!! :patriot:
But no, just a gang of Folks at Creative also looking to pay their rent and bills.
Oh yes NW, if you need a hand, just pay for my flight and hotel bills and I will be over in a flash!!!
I probably worked on more Wingcars then most Folks, even in the US of A. LOL!!! :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Quote from: Nwcharger on January 02, 2015, 11:05:09 PM
Well as far as updates I don't really have too much. i have enough metal to start the task but I've been focused on trying to thin my car count and pay off a c500 that I'm buying. The metal that I plan on using from the daytona is the firewall, upper and lower cowl, inner fenders, front shock mounts, front lower core support, outer rockers, door jams rear quarter inner structure that the window regulators attach to, dash frame, rear tail panel. I don't think the front rails are worth messing with as they are pretty toast and Want the car to be safe. I know that all the parts that I save will take many hours of body work and a lot of cash but I'm up for it. :2thumbs:
That is quite a bit. From the pictures everything seemed pretty gone but I guess there is more there than the pictures show. Good luck.
EDIT: I went back and looked at the pics posted on GYC and it looks like you can use most of the door inner structure except the bottom also I don't know if the upper skin looks good on the hood but you can always replace the inner liner if it does.
Quote from: Nwcharger on January 02, 2015, 11:05:09 PM
Well as far as updates I don't really have too much. i have enough metal to start the task but I've been focused on trying to thin my car count and pay off a c500 that I'm buying. The metal that I plan on using from the daytona is the firewall, upper and lower cowl, inner fenders, front shock mounts, front lower core support, outer rockers, door jams rear quarter inner structure that the window regulators attach to, dash frame, rear tail panel. I don't think the front rails are worth messing with as they are pretty toast and Want the car to be safe. I know that all the parts that I save will take many hours of body work and a lot of cash but I'm up for it. :2thumbs:
cool , good stuff :2thumbs: :popcrn:
GYC FACE PIXS?????????????
LINK page 14 reply 327 ,,,, Can they be moved here for the dial up computers inpaired folks???
thanks i try faceblock saw 2 tiny pixs for few blinks after long wait to load....thanks DJ :popcrn:
:popcrn:
:popcrn:
:popcrn:
:popcrn:
Hey man it's your car, do what you please, don't listen to the naysayers......
Ouch.You have a long road ahead you.Hats off to you if that one hits the road again. Rebuilt - rebodied or whatever you want to call it.
I like to call it a 're-creation'...
It existed before and will again with some of the original sheetmetal.
If AMD start selling 69 Charger bodies, then all the known 69 Chargers, C500's and Daytona's will live again!!! :2thumbs:
Who has the right to tell someone not to rebody their own car, if its known to have serious TINWORM???
Swapping one carbody onto another previous registered carbody is a different matter entirely.
Just look at the burnt 68 GTX on ebay at the moment, recorded as a write-off, but only for insurance purposes.
That's an easy fix for most Folks in the Bodyshop-trade!!! :pity:
Clarification is needed here for all future RE-CREATIONS, are they right or wrong??? :scratchchin: :scratchchin: :scratchchin:
This Daytona will set the standard for the HOBBY methinks! :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Quote from: 500Jon on January 04, 2015, 05:23:13 AM
Who has the right to tell someone not to rebody their own car, if its known to have serious TINWORM???
Swapping one carbody onto another previous registered carbody is a different matter entirely.
would you be so kind as to discern the difference between the words "rebody" and "swapping carbodys", solely from your perspective?
i get a visual of brand new, unregistered car bodies falling like manna from Heaven above.
A rebody is a change over of all the removable parts onto another bare bodyshell.
I think the real grey(gray) areas are...
If the donor bodyshell is stolen or the Vin is swapped from an 'extinct car' directly onto another complete car, ie to gain value!
Back in the 90's when I bought my Canadian rusty-bucket 1971 GTX there were little or no available new sheetmetal.
The option was to buy a stripped Satelitte/Roadrunner from a rust free state and ship it back to England.
Then start the painstaking job of carefully removing all the panels one spot weld at a time.
What then happens is, the rustfree parts are all better than the GTX ones... so you weld them all back together again LOL!!!
In the end I bought individual pieces as I went along, I reckon I've got six maybe seven cars in ONE GTX, NOW!!!
When I said to Folks 'selling' donor cars what I was doing, they said 'WHY BOTHER' just change the Vin's over?
So I say what's the legality of doing such a thing??? :scratchchin: :scratchchin: :scratchchin:
Other Folks said I was mad and just buy another GTX!!!
Now I know they were RIGHT, 20 years of grief to save one rusty-bucket 1971 GTX!!!
I have found many better 71 Gtx's in those twenty years and I've kicked myself many times.
When it comes to a Daytona, they are still out there, and I now know of three very easily restorable cars!!! :2thumbs:
Would I want the hassle of NW, not really, just buy better Daytona to start with.
Any pic's out there of the back end of the "Charger"
Quote from: ACUDANUT on January 04, 2015, 11:48:53 AM
Any pic's out there of the back end of the "Charger"
All that is left of the rear is the tail panel and trunk gutters and wasted quaters.
What I like about this REBODY is the owner has put it out there on the WWW for everyone to see.Not like some other people who do it all behind closed doors to fool someone into thinking that it was a rust free car to start with.
Quote from: 500Jon on January 04, 2015, 10:27:35 AM
Back in the 90's when I bought my Canadian rusty-bucket 1971 GTX there were little or no available new sheetmetal.
The option was to buy a stripped Satelitte/Roadrunner from a rust free state and ship it back to England.
Then start the painstaking job of carefully removing all the panels one spot weld at a time.
What then happens is, the rustfree parts are all better than the GTX ones... so you weld them all back together again LOL!!!
In the end I bought individual pieces as I went along, I reckon I've got six maybe seven cars in ONE GTX, NOW!!!
When I said to Folks 'selling' donor cars what I was doing, they said 'WHY BOTHER' just change the Vin's over?
no one said, "why not put the GTX stuff on the Satellite body and just leave the VIN alone." ? six or seven cars sacrificed to save one seems a little extreme. what made that one car worth so much effort, if it was that far gone?
Good comment there Ernie,
Over here in England we have an MOT test, (like smog but not emissions though), just Road-worthy-ness...every year without FAIL!!!
My 44 year old Gtx has to have nearly Zero rust issues all working lights, brakes, shocks, suspension rubbers.
Good clear glass, working washers and wipers, perfect steering and seating with modern seatbelts etc.etc. etc...
By all intent a modern roadcar...so when you have a Major RUST problem...its curtains...
Here we have a numbers matching GTX, up and running, driving and a previously restored car... what to do???
SCRAP IT, ie. JUNK IT...was the only option...its beyond economical repair...
She was on her way to the JunkYard when I decided to store her and wait.
I'd seen in Mopar Mags other 71 GTX's with major rust being restored, piece by piece.
Being the only 1971 real GTX in the UK, it seemed the right thing to do?
REBODY her as a clone GTX in a satellite body as a GTX!
Or repair her one panel at a time as a real GTX albeit six/seven other cars LOL!!! :2thumbs:
So what happened to the other six cars, who knows, they're just pieces from Junked, wrecked, rolled, rusted out B-bodies and E-bodies.
As we know, there is plenty of those GEN 3 Chargers rotting away merrily LOL!!! :2thumbs:
Known donor vehicles were..,69,70,71 and 72 Chargers, 70 and 71 Challengers and a 72 Roadrunner, plus an unknown piece or two...
Good thing about 71 B's they share some bits with 70-on E's...
Ive read most of this post, and signed up to ask........Is anyone out there brave enough to tackle it, or is everyone leaving this car alone? If Nwcharger has the cash, I'd like to see it come alive. Im in sacramento, built a lot of mopars over the years and would be interested in tackling it. Not terribly far from you. We don't play around here and may have the time real soon to tackle it. Just a buddy of mine and I. You would be surprised at what we can do in 2 months time. At least be interested in making it a roller again. Maybe more? I don't like cars sitting around like resto shops do, so when a car comes in, we focus only on that car. Just a couple of backyard mopar guys with the passion. We've never tackled this bad of a hull, but we've done roofs, quarters, frame rails, floors, etc, just not all at once on the same car. Message me if your interested. I for one like that he wants to drive this bad boy. Only problem I see is if he goes to sell it, and even then , with the history .....and the story, I doubt It hurts it to much. If your serious about making it happen, lets talk.
I don't pay attention to much to the naysayers. Its usually people without the know how. Or the high and mighty. Always people with opinions. Whose to say what you can do with YOUR car? Just tossing it out there.
If not, I for one will watch this post for updates.
Let the bashing begin..........again!
Well said supremist!!!
Most folks like to see resto's where each panel is removed and replaced one piece at a time.
Modern day resto is more of a TOTAL disassembly and reassembly type scenario.
Every panel unwelded and repaired, then all put back together again, pice by piece! :cheers:
It scares the crap outta most people LOL!!! :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
http://mapleleafmopars.homestead.com/carsinbarns242.html
There are many opinions on this car, and whether or not it should be restored / rebodied / recreated / resurrected / whatever.
Some makes and marks think this is the kiss of death, others have no issues with it.
I have lost count of the number of rebodied Ferrari's, Shelby Cobra's, Shelby Mustang's, Corvettes, etc.
A 67 Corvette L-88 (one of 20) was rebuilt from the seriously bent up frame, which included the VIN and trim tags, and original drive line. Not a single fiberglass panel of the car was salvageable.
The car was restored to show quality condition, went through the judging process, and passed with flying colors. Everyone knew the story of the car. It did not change the fact that the particular VIN was an original L-88.
However, that rebody was reflected at sale time. A nice, unmolested, original 67 L-88 recently changed hands for $3.2 million. The rebodied car sold for about one third of that, but it is still a 7 figure car. It will always be a rebodied car. It will also always be a 67 L-88. One does not negate the other.
My 2 cents, use as much of the original car as can be saved, don't swap the VIN tag, and bring this big bird back to life.
Honestly, I am more bothered by the fact that the Graveyard Carz guys didn't call the owner back to tell him they would not restore his car.
GYC said they would build a tribute car AKA replica.But the owner would have to reinstall the numbers part of the build :Twocents:
If NWC has $40K in parts, another $25K in labor (assuming he does most of the work himself), another $10K in paint/material, then add the cost of the car. He could conceivably have a complete Daytona, with correct numbers for around $85K. Where are you going to get a Daytona that runs and drives for that money? And perhaps more importantly regarding the "should he or shouldn't he" discussion, do you really believe he couldn't at least get his money back if the car were to be sold?
Personally, I don't believe it would last 2 days with a $100K plus price tag from what I'm seeing in the market...
As NW has stated, its all being done out in the open!
There are many cars that have been done outta sight!
Most rare car owners are only interested in the end result.
The look on some Folks faces when they see their Million Dollar car at the blasters!!! :smilielol:
They have no conception of a BARE-SHELL being totally rebuilt (by one person) as per the Factory...
ps...these are the good ones LOL!!!
This is a guess of what I came up with a while ago for Superbird special pieces. I'm sure most everyone can find the parts cheaper.
Superbird special parts estimate-Really a giant guess
Nose Shell $ 12,000 NOS Big savings on a repro here
Left HL $ 2,000 NOS
Right HL $ 2,000 NOS
Z braces $ 2,000 Used Not rusted-very hard to find
Grill Screen Frames $ 1,000 Used Good Luck finding originals, Fake $ 500
Latch Tray $ 1,000 Used
Latch Tray Bracket $ 100 Fake
Front Turn Signal Brackets $ 100 Fake Likely never see NOS or used
Front Turn Signals+Housings $ 500 NOS/Used/Repro Repro lenses $ 250 + housings
Hood $ 2,000 Fake
(2) Coronet Fenders $ 1,000 Used
Fender Scoops $ 1,000 NOS
Side Valances $ 1,500 NOS
Center Valance $ 500 Used
(3) Front Bumper Brackets $ 600 Used
A pillar Chrome $ 1,000 Used
Diamond Pieces $ 1,000 Used
Wing Supports $ 1,500 Used
Wing $ 2,500 Used
Back Window $ 1,500 Repro
Back Window Plug $ 2,500 NOS
Back Window Chrome $ 1,000 Repro
Front Jack $ 750 Repro Much more for used
Front Jack Hold Down $ 250 Used Can be found
Plus all connectors, Rub Strip, Diaper, Vacuum Can, Trunk Stops, Wiring Harness, Light Switch, Gaskets, shipping etc. $ 2.5K
$ 42,000 +/- A big +/- still wouldn't be close to a National 1st place car, too many fake pieces
So this would be plus the cost of parts for the base car.
It is very difficult in terms of time, money, and even finding parts to restore a car. Almost impossible to restore a basket case #5 wing car without making serious compromises that will be quite visible and noticeable later. My 2 cents.
Well put RedBird!
Anyone building or rebuilding any Wingcar has the same problem!
You just gotta build it with what you got and what you can afford!
Like Mopar John, you can improve as you go, then someone else gets the 'hand-me-downs'...
Its all about what the car is for?
If you wanna win prizes then you need $100,000.
If you wanna go to the Quikee-Mart, then 50,000 might just do it.............. :smilielol:
jon, do note that his list and its potential cost is just for the items needed to replace on an existing body.
you're leaving out the expense involved in raising lazarus from the dead just to bolt them on.
Quote from: charger500440 on January 31, 2015, 08:53:26 AM
Personally, I don't believe it would last 2 days with a $100K plus price tag from what I'm seeing in the market...
ahem... did you follow the recent thread on this one? it wasn't too far off from your price point, and could have been driven home.
Hi Held,
Where's the challenge in that car?
All that Daytona needs is GAS!!! :smilielol:
Some Folks like to face the Abyss and not be scared or put off by NAY sayers lol... :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot:
Like the guy who got a free wrecked 69-R/T he ain't scared either??? :scratchchin: :scratchchin: :scratchchin:
Any free Wingcars greatly accepted LOL!!! :drool5: :drool5: :drool5:
Was that the previous blue phil jackson hemi daytona .thats back in red in trombinos in vegas
Quote from: charger500440 on January 31, 2015, 08:53:26 AM
If NWC has $40K in parts, another $25K in labor (assuming he does most of the work himself), another $10K in paint/material, then add the cost of the car. He could conceivably have a complete Daytona, with correct numbers for around $85K. Where are you going to get a Daytona that runs and drives for that money? And perhaps more importantly regarding the "should he or shouldn't he" discussion, do you really believe he couldn't at least get his money back if the car were to be sold?
Personally, I don't believe it would last 2 days with a $100K plus price tag from what I'm seeing in the market...
Sounds good in theory, but you aren't going to get a running Daytona for 85 large because you forgot to add add complete suspension, K-frame rear end, brakes, steering box, column, steering wheel, brake & lines, emergency brake pedal & cables, fuel tank wheels, tires, complete interior, dashboard, glass, engine & transmission rebuild, heater, console, shifter & linkage and on and on. So, it's safe to say that you could easily add another 40 large + all the unexpected stuff, and there will be lots of it.
What ever happened to this fine specimen ? :shruggy:
Seems to me there's a lot more to work with here than with the OP's "car"... :scratchchin:
Hi Dirty Bin,
Good point indeed fella!
As we know restoring an non-Wingcar is gonna be around $60,000-£80,000...
We are debating the extra bits on the Wingers here.
I reckon $40,000 should cover that part depending on depth of Ravine it fell down?
Wingers that have not fallen down a Ravine, hit the wall at Dega or Charlotte, will need less in aftermarket NOS!
I have fixed car that have been rolled over and they are difficult to put right as well.
If the roof is knocked over to one side , then the whole structure has to be unpicked and re-aligned.
As I've said before the customer doesn't want to see the hard graft that goes in and on the whole we don't allow it anyways!!! :slap:
The guys that have grown up with wingers should be happy for the great UNWASHED (like me) to dream of owning a Wingcar TOO................ :2thumbs:
Stop being Parade-rainers and get behind the WINGCAR restorers, before its too LATE!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Graveyard carz save this one. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,18858.0.html
Quote from: held1823 on January 31, 2015, 12:18:22 PM
Quote from: charger500440 on January 31, 2015, 08:53:26 AM
Personally, I don't believe it would last 2 days with a $100K plus price tag from what I'm seeing in the market...
ahem... did you follow the recent thread on this one? it wasn't too far off from your price point, and could have been driven home.
Not saying there aren't fair and reasonable deals to be had but in general, a wing car today is out of most people's budget. For me, I have a 500 that I brought home in boxes. It'll take me years to collect all that I need and slowly put it all back together. My plan is to save the car and when I'm done, have a 500 with about $40-$45K invested all in (I already have all the 500-specific parts). The car is missiing the bc sheet and tag so I know it'll never be a high dollar car. But I don't care about that because I can't afford to care about it. I know I can find a driver condition 500 with more documentation than mine for around $50K but sorry, I don't $50K to blow on a car. Cool one or not. So I need to spread that cost out over "years" and the best part is a 500 that may have died a slow death will be put back on the road in all it's glory. Well, that's the plan anyway.
As for resurrecting my 500 or NWC's Daytona, why would anyone on this forum be against that? Assuming we're not hiding the cars' past, which we're not.
Having met NWC, he and I are in the same exact boat. Except his boat has a wing on it and mine isn't as much of a project sheetmetal-wise...
Well said C500440!
LIVE AND LET LIVE!!!
In most cases Folks don't care what's said on Car-Sites anyways.
Best to keep Folks in the gang rather than scaring them out... :2thumbs:
Quote from: Nwcharger on December 01, 2014, 09:51:36 AM
Picked up that issue last night. Your right. Mark has no interest in restoring my Daytona. Sure wish he would have told me in person. I had a feeling he passed when he never called me back after bringing it down there. :'(
This is no surprise. I can not see anybody wanting to restore it. Mainly because to time consuming. Unless you want to rebody it. Some don't want to do that either because of legal gray lines. LEON.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7338.0.html
Yah if gyc would have done car I don't see how he wouldn't have wanted 120-150k to do it. The current owner will need some help if he's going to keep it under 100k.
Offer stands! Where you at nwcharger?
Don't say everyone will pass on doing this car....600 miles away
Quote from: moparsupremist on February 01, 2015, 06:44:13 PM
Yah if gyc would have done car I don't see how he wouldn't have wanted 120-150k to do it. The current owner will need some help if he's going to keep it under 100k.
Offer stands! Where you at nwcharger?
Don't say everyone will pass on doing this car....600 miles away
I'm located in portland oregon. Your offer does sound interesting however I'm skeptical about the car leaving my possession. Maybe if I was able to take a month or so off work and take it down, help build it and come back with it
By now it should be clear that most likely the only people who would make money on this project would be someone selling parts to the owner and a shop doing the work.
From the outside this appears to be basically a bottomless pit with little upside. :Twocents:
I'd like to see the supremist get a blank check and see what happens! :2thumbs:
Well we could talk about it in private but you gotta leave it somewhere if you want it done. Of course can show you plenty of cars done and let's face it , your only 10 hours away from your Daytona. Not across the country. Not sure that staying and helping would work out as its to hard to determine where we would be at when your ready. Things change daily and got to get in line. Giving us the job and letting us go on it would be best as we work well on our own pace which is above most people's pace. We don't talk, we do! I'll leave it at that as most people don't believe what we get done in weeks. We don't take customer cars normally but I saw this as a challenge. All the cars done are mine until I find them a home.
First step getting it a roller. If you wanted to do rest to save money, I get it.
But again you got to be motivated and all in or it won't happen. To many talkers and not enough do 'ers. Just trying to help with the dream. when your ready offer stands. If not keep us updated.
this is now pinned to the top? lol
Yeah, Sacremento not far. I say send it to Moparsupremist. Sounds like he's saying it will be done in a few months for under $100k. Sounds good to me, go for it. :scratchchin:
Quote from: moparsupremist on February 01, 2015, 08:54:09 PM
Well we could talk about it in private but you gotta leave it somewhere if you want it done. Of course can show you plenty of cars done and let's face it , your only 10 hours away from your Daytona. Not across the country. Not sure that staying and helping would work out as its to hard to determine where we would be at when your ready. Things change daily and got to get in line. Giving us the job and letting us go on it would be best as we work well on our own pace which is above most people's pace. We don't talk, we do! I'll leave it at that as most people don't believe what we get done in weeks. We don't take customer cars normally but I saw this as a challenge. All the cars done are mine until I find them a home.
First step getting it a roller. If you wanted to do rest to save money, I get it.
But again you got to be motivated and all in or it won't happen. To many talkers and not enough do 'ers. Just trying to help with the dream. when your ready offer stands. If not keep us updated.
I'd love to see this one done like mopar4don's Charger, step by step, in photos. Anything less and there will be nothing but speculation, conspiracies, FUD, and endless poop flinging. If it goes to a shop and just comes back in a few months as a body in white it'll be Lee1 all over again.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 03, 2015, 12:07:35 AM
Quote from: moparsupremist on February 01, 2015, 08:54:09 PM
Well we could talk about it in private but you gotta leave it somewhere if you want it done. Of course can show you plenty of cars done and let's face it , your only 10 hours away from your Daytona. Not across the country. Not sure that staying and helping would work out as its to hard to determine where we would be at when your ready. Things change daily and got to get in line. Giving us the job and letting us go on it would be best as we work well on our own pace which is above most people's pace. We don't talk, we do! I'll leave it at that as most people don't believe what we get done in weeks. We don't take customer cars normally but I saw this as a challenge. All the cars done are mine until I find them a home.
First step getting it a roller. If you wanted to do rest to save money, I get it.
But again you got to be motivated and all in or it won't happen. To many talkers and not enough do 'ers. Just trying to help with the dream. when your ready offer stands. If not keep us updated.
Must have went to a public school.
You feel good now
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 03, 2015, 12:07:35 AM
Quote from: moparsupremist on February 01, 2015, 08:54:09 PM
Well we could talk about it in private but you gotta leave it somewhere if you want it done. Of course can show you plenty of cars done and let's face it , your only 10 hours away from your Daytona. Not across the country. Not sure that staying and helping would work out as its to hard to determine where we would be at when your ready. Things change daily and got to get in line. Giving us the job and letting us go on it would be best as we work well on our own pace which is above most people's pace. We don't talk, we do! I'll leave it at that as most people don't believe what we get done in weeks. We don't take customer cars normally but I saw this as a challenge. All the cars done are mine until I find them a home.
First step getting it a roller. If you wanted to do rest to save money, I get it.
But again you got to be motivated and all in or it won't happen. To many talkers and not enough do 'ers. Just trying to help with the dream. when your ready offer stands. If not keep us updated.
Must have went to a public school.
Actually, your statement should read; "Must have gone to public school." :Twocents:
Guess you went to a school that taught fairy tales, instead of proper grammar. :nana:
No matter how its get repaired if at all. It'll be a rebody.
the only difference will be is,,,, the easy way ----or the hard way
Quote from: odcics2 on February 03, 2015, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 03, 2015, 12:07:35 AM
Quote from: moparsupremist on February 01, 2015, 08:54:09 PM
Well we could talk about it in private but you gotta leave it somewhere if you want it done. Of course can show you plenty of cars done and let's face it , your only 10 hours away from your Daytona. Not across the country. Not sure that staying and helping would work out as its to hard to determine where we would be at when your ready. Things change daily and got to get in line. Giving us the job and letting us go on it would be best as we work well on our own pace which is above most people's pace. We don't talk, we do! I'll leave it at that as most people don't believe what we get done in weeks. We don't take customer cars normally but I saw this as a challenge. All the cars done are mine until I find them a home.
First step getting it a roller. If you wanted to do rest to save money, I get it.
But again you got to be motivated and all in or it won't happen. To many talkers and not enough do 'ers. Just trying to help with the dream. when your ready offer stands. If not keep us updated.
Must have went to a public school.
Actually, your statement should read; "Must have gone to public school." :Twocents:
Guess you went to a school that taught fairy tales, instead of proper grammar. :nana:
:smilielol:
Quote from: gtx6970 on February 03, 2015, 04:43:19 PM
No matter how its get repaired if at all. It'll be a rebody.
the only difference will be is,,,, the easy way ----or the hard way
I disagree. I think of it more as a resurrection than a rebody. I could have rebodyed it years ago, never posted anything about the car and keep it silent. I'm trying to make it public for everyone to see. I don't see any other Daytonas that have been severely wrecked and restored in the pubic eye. like that one that burned in the fire a few years ago with a few cars and there's nothing on how it was restored that I've seen yet.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 03, 2015, 12:07:35 AM
Quote from: moparsupremist on February 01, 2015, 08:54:09 PM
Well we could talk about it in private but you gotta leave it somewhere if you want it done. Of course can show you plenty of cars done and let's face it , your only 10 hours away from your Daytona. Not across the country. Not sure that staying and helping would work out as its to hard to determine where we would be at when your ready. Things change daily and got to get in line. Giving us the job and letting us go on it would be best as we work well on our own pace which is above most people's pace. We don't talk, we do! I'll leave it at that as most people don't believe what we get done in weeks. We don't take customer cars normally but I saw this as a challenge. All the cars done are mine until I find them a home.
First step getting it a roller. If you wanted to do rest to save money, I get it.
But again you got to be motivated and all in or it won't happen. To many talkers and not enough do 'ers. Just trying to help with the dream. when your ready offer stands. If not keep us updated.
Must have went to a public school.
I know this post was not for me but I just wanted to say, I never went to a single day of high school and don't have a diploma or GED. Dropped out when I got my girlfriend pregnant at 14 and have worked full time since then.
Quote from: odcics2 on February 03, 2015, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 03, 2015, 12:07:35 AM
Quote from: moparsupremist on February 01, 2015, 08:54:09 PM
Well we could talk about it in private but you gotta leave it somewhere if you want it done. Of course can show you plenty of cars done and let's face it , your only 10 hours away from your Daytona. Not across the country. Not sure that staying and helping would work out as its to hard to determine where we would be at when your ready. Things change daily and got to get in line. Giving us the job and letting us go on it would be best as we work well on our own pace which is above most people's pace. We don't talk, we do! I'll leave it at that as most people don't believe what we get done in weeks. We don't take customer cars normally but I saw this as a challenge. All the cars done are mine until I find them a home.
First step getting it a roller. If you wanted to do rest to save money, I get it.
But again you got to be motivated and all in or it won't happen. To many talkers and not enough do 'ers. Just trying to help with the dream. when your ready offer stands. If not keep us updated.
Must have went to a public school.
Actually, your statement should read; "Must have gone to public school." :Twocents:
Guess you went to a school that taught fairy tales, instead of proper grammar. :nana:
Actually, your both wrong. The sentence lacks a subject. This correction comes from someone with a diploma, back when a diploma actually meant something.
Can we return back to the subject, please?
Quote from: Nwcharger on February 03, 2015, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: gtx6970 on February 03, 2015, 04:43:19 PM
No matter how its get repaired if at all. It'll be a rebody.
the only difference will be is,,,, the easy way ----or the hard way
I disagree. I think of it more as a resurrection than a rebody. I could have rebodyed it years ago, never posted anything about the car and keep it silent. I'm trying to make it public for everyone to see. I don't see any other Daytonas that have been severely wrecked and restored in the pubic eye. like that one that burned in the fire a few years ago with a few cars and there's nothing on how it was restored that I've seen yet.
NW,
I'm not trying pee on anyones parade. And I commend you to even think about tackling this car. And you can call it what ever you wish . Its your car.
BUT, and this is MY opinion ......you can move the tag to another body OR build a jig around said tag and replace every piece of sheetmetal around it one by one.
The end result is the same
Same goes for the burnt one seen earlier,,,
again my opinion and my opinion only
Another mangled daytona. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,111638.0.html
QuoteActually, your both wrong. The sentence lacks a subject. This correction comes from someone with a diploma, back when a diploma actually meant something.
Can we return back to the subject, please?
Your implies ownership, do you mean You're?
Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject_%28grammar%29 about "implied subject". I am not an internet grammar corrector and from what I can see, neither are you. ;-)
My dad taught wood shop, but I did have great teachers for other subjects.
LOL.
BTW, I just was having fun.
I have fun too!
:smilielol:
:cheers:
Quote from: Nwcharger on February 03, 2015, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: gtx6970 on February 03, 2015, 04:43:19 PM
No matter how its get repaired if at all. It'll be a rebody.
the only difference will be is,,,, the easy way ----or the hard way
I disagree. I think of it more as a resurrection than a rebody. I could have rebodyed it years ago, never posted anything about the car and keep it silent. I'm trying to make it public for everyone to see. I don't see any other Daytonas that have been severely wrecked and restored in the pubic eye. like that one that burned in the fire a few years ago with a few cars and there's nothing on how it was restored that I've seen yet.
After your all done you'll still be calling it a Resurrection while everybody else will be calling it a rebody. Those green floors you showed a pic of earlier did not look like the original floors for this car. If you use those the rebody has started :scratchchin: LEON.
That's great. I replace a fender, I just rebodied my car. I replace the trunk floor, I just rebodied the car. I fix a rust hole, I just rebodied the car. Can't win for losing. :brickwall:
At least I'm one step closer to being able to enjoy the car.
New lingo needed?
Re-Creation... taking a pile of rust and creating a new car, with a mixture of new and old parts...
Re-panelling...removing rusty panels one at a time and replacing using welds.
Total-repanelling...total removal at one time of all rusty panels (like Mr.Norms 500 and the B5-blue 500).
Re-bodying...putting your 'bodyshell' vin numbers onto another vehicle bodyshell in ones ownership due to rust major issues...
Re-registration... or just plain fraudulence...stealing someones pride and joy and just swapping Vins FULLSTOP... :slap:
Replacing a fender and trunk hardly constitutes a rebody JB. Replacing every single panel with a different car however...
That's what I mean. I'm not replacing every body panel but because every piece saved will take lots of work to save then it becomes a rebody? Seems like a double standard.
what body panels from the ravine do you have? a few pages back are photos of the remains spread out for examination. there may be stuff not shown there, but the only thing even close to being a usable body panel seen in those photos is the hood from a different car.
Quote from: Ghoste on February 05, 2015, 09:00:29 AM
Replacing a fender and trunk hardly constitutes a rebody JB. Replacing every single panel with a different car however...
While my comment was actually just a smart remark based off of H-Hamptons' comment, it actually holds weight if there's going to be a ruckus over what parts are used off of a dead car to bring another dead car to life, especially since no work has been done on the Daytona. Since there is little industry standard on terminology on this subject, just about any conclusion could be drawn.
Looks like the only usable metal is the rear seat pan section and possibly passengers inner/outter rocker panel.
Quote from: Nwcharger on February 03, 2015, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: gtx6970 on February 03, 2015, 04:43:19 PM
No matter how its get repaired if at all. It'll be a rebody.
the only difference will be is,,,, the easy way ----or the hard way
I disagree. I think of it more as a resurrection than a rebody. I could have rebodyed it years ago, never posted anything about the car and keep it silent. I'm trying to make it public for everyone to see. I don't see any other Daytonas that have been severely wrecked and restored in the pubic eye. like that one that burned in the fire a few years ago with a few cars and there's nothing on how it was restored that I've seen yet.
Check this out. Substitute the word "parrot" with "Daytona". :smilielol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218
:nana:
Quote from: JB400 on February 04, 2015, 10:46:13 PM
That's great. I replace a fender, I just rebodied my car. I replace the trunk floor, I just rebodied the car. I fix a rust hole, I just rebodied the car. Can't win for losing. :brickwall:
At least I'm one step closer to being able to enjoy the car.
Did you see the new floors? Here's a pic below. Thats alot of floor to use. The whole bottom of car.
Scavenger's version of AMD. :popcrn:
This thread is going round in circles now!
If one buys a Gen-2 Charger and totally dis-assembles it down to its component parts.
As in,,, drills out every factory made spot-weld and mig-weld in/on the body-shell, and then...
Re-assembles the whole thing back together with a mixture of other 68/69/70 Charger/Coronet parts...
And also use Chinese, almost-right repro panels as well, where necessary...
What have they done wrong???
Nothing of course, it happens all the TIME... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Let this Daytona rebuild start in EARNEST, and we can watch the Re-creation with SPLENDOR!!! :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Quote from: 500Jon on February 06, 2015, 05:31:59 AM
This thread is going round in circles now!
If one buys a Gen-2 Charger and totally dis-assembles it down to its component parts.
As in,,, drills out every factory made spot-weld and mig-weld in/on the body-shell, and then...
Re-assembles the whole thing back together with a mixture of other 68/69/70 Charger/Coronet parts...
And also use Chinese, almost-right repro panels as well, where necessary...
What have they done wrong???
Nothing of course, it happens all the TIME... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Let this Daytona rebuild start in EARNEST, and we can watch the Re-creation with SPLENDOR!!! :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
I have not one item, not the smallest of the small, part on the 88 that is reproduced.
It's coming together as 100%, original vintage 1969 Dodge sheet metal, nuts bolts, etc.
The entire front end was saved from the woods and restored. HUGE undertaking, but it went 200 legally
and no other front end did! :2thumbs: It is a one off, hand massaged, assembly of parts.
I have to admit that Don White did NOT drive it over a cliff.... :brickwall:
"Almost-right", is incorrect, as far as this one car goes... Just my opinion, of course...
:cheers: :popcrn: :cheers: :popcrn: beer and popcorn for all!
Nwcharger, have you been working on the Daytona, I'm looking forward to seeing pics of the progress. :2thumbs:
John and his wife Jenn stayed at my place for a couple days last summer when they came to pick up his 70 Superbee that I pulled out of the woods of Weare, NH the previous year. We discussed in length the current condition of the Daytona.
All I can say is that John is a stand up guy. He could have flown under the radar with all this and quietly moved the numbers to his 69 Daytona clone and hoped no one would be none the wiser. He knows what his is up against as far trying to bring this car back to life. He is determined to use as much of the original sheetmetal as possible. He knows that there will be a number of people out there screaming re-body but is willing to take the time and do what he thinks is the right thing to do.
One thing that John hasn't mentioned in all this is that he had several offers on the car (for substantially more than what he paid) after he had purchased it. John declined those offers and instead has put all this documention out on the web for all to see. I doubt if any of those buyers would be interested now.
Quote from: NHCharger on February 08, 2015, 08:41:16 AM
John and his wife Jenn stayed at my place for a couple days last summer when they came to pick up his 70 Superbee that I pulled out of the woods of Weare, NH the previous year. We discussed in length the current condition of the Daytona.
All I can say is that John is a stand up guy. He could have flown under the radar with all this and quietly moved the numbers to his 69 Daytona clone and hoped no one would be none the wiser. He knows what his is up against as far trying to bring this car back to life. He is determined to use as much of the original sheetmetal as possible. He knows that there will be a number of people out there screaming re-body but is willing to take the time and do what he thinks is the right thing to do.
One thing that John hasn't mentioned in all this is that he had several offers on the car (for substantially more than what he paid) after he had purchased it. John declined those offers and instead has put all this documention out on the web for all to see. I doubt if any of those buyers would be interested now.
Having met John as well, I second that. We as Charger enthusiasts are fortunate that John owns this car for many reasons. Not the least of which is that he has been very up front regarding what this car needs and what it will take to put it back together. How easy would it be for him to not have done what he has already up to this point? I tip my hat and wish him the best in getting this car resuscitated...
Hip, Hip, HOORAY!!! :2thumbs:
We have hopefully turned the corner on this 'STILL isa Daytona' thread.
Firstly anyone called 'John' must be an OK GUY, (just a personal thing lol).
Secondly, I am extremely jealous that I didn't find the RAYVINETONA...myself...
Thirdly, John is a very brave man to go into the Lion's Den and not be frightened OFF!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
God Bless you and your Rayvinetona build... :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
ps, he who has NOT sinned, cast the first stone... :spank: :spank: :spank:
Its worth saving what you can and putting the car back on the road , it will always have a little stigma attached to it
but document what you can . Its a cool story and you will love having the story to tell everytime you show the car ,
Hats off to you for doing it in the public eye , Good luck , the sacramento guy sound like he will work with you I say talk more with him and
give him a shot . As in sports it will always have an asterisk associated with it , but you have documented it and will have more of a real daytona then most of us .
Well said Stuart!
I'm sure no one in Sport has ever used Drugs or Cheated... :slap:
I'm always available for Daytona work too, must pay airfare, board and lodgings, oh yes and free-BEER!!! :2thumbs:
ps, I must get a bigger garage, too many Daytona's and not enough room!!! :nana:
QuoteNwcharger, have you been working on the Daytona, I'm looking forward to seeing pics of the progress. 2thumbs
I was thinking the same thing. Ready for the circular opinions to end and see some metal magic!
Quote from: RallyeMike on February 08, 2015, 12:11:44 PM
QuoteNwcharger, have you been working on the Daytona, I'm looking forward to seeing pics of the progress. 2thumbs
I was thinking the same thing. Ready for the circular opinions to end and see some metal magic!
I haven't done much with the Daytona. City came down on me last summer for having too many cars on my property so I've been busy hiding and selling cars. Couldn't see them from the road so the did an aerial surveylance and found 12 cars in my backyard. Not gonna say how many I actually had but it was more than twice they saw. I plan on getting started after I pick up the c500 I'm buying this summer. Been messing with my 69 coronet wagon that I just got on the road last month. Also messing with my a12 clone budget build (10 seconds for 10k or less) and just picked up the original 340 motor for my fiberglass lebaron track car (former aar Cuda). Just sold my 69 SE charger and planning on selling the Daytona clone next. Starting to thin my herd of mopars.
Quick update. Herd rumor that some parts from my Daytona might be surfacing. Keeping my fingers crossed but may end up with the gauge cluster, one headlight door, drivers door and maybe more.
Nwcharger;
I hope that more parts continue to surface as news of this efforts continues to spread.
I applaud your efforts to bring the bird back to life.
I also think Graveyard Carz missed out of a great opportunity.
I hope your find someone to assist in your efforts.
Please keep us posted.
Quote from: Nwcharger on February 16, 2015, 01:59:21 AM
Quick update. Herd rumor that some parts from my Daytona might be surfacing. Keeping my fingers crossed but may end up with the gauge cluster, one headlight door, drivers door and maybe more.
By "from my Daytona" do you mean the original parts?
"I also think Graveyard Carz missed out of a great opportunity"
How do you figure that :scratchchin: :shruggy:
Quote from: Patronus on February 17, 2015, 09:08:17 PM
Quote from: Nwcharger on February 16, 2015, 01:59:21 AM
Quick update. Herd rumor that some parts from my Daytona might be surfacing. Keeping my fingers crossed but may end up with the gauge cluster, one headlight door, drivers door and maybe more.
By "from my Daytona" do you mean the original parts?
Yes, parts that original came from my car. When it was abandoned it sat for a number of years before it was pushed off the ravine. During that time it was parted by locals.
Clipped Wings,,is the GYCARS show with JOhn an his ravine Daytona.just saw it last nite an it is on this morning at 8 pacific time again . just as they were to talk an open johns trailer, the bar turned up the music. i guess thats why i can enjoy the show most times i barely hear it at the bar.
have to watch it again when i can hear it,i guess??? but sick of hair cuts an all that crap bout new DARTS what a waste an bunch of crap. the new shop looks big from the street but now we see the back is open,just a roof. the best to anyone whos car is on hold there..
hey john its DJ in oregon! :popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs: :cheers:
P>S> hey john if ya could get cluster with odomitor showing milage that wood beee coooooolll. :2thumbs:
Nwcharger;
I've just found this story online and it linked to this forum. I admit I joined in only because of this thread, which I find fascinating! I don't own a Charger, always loved the car, but where I live, in Paraguay, South America, there were only a small number of these cars imported back in the days... and most ended up being taken to Brazil or Argentina.
Anyways, I'm involved in a somewhat similar project of my own. It's not nearly as difficult as yours, and the car is not as valuable and rare as yours either. I bought bodyshell/chassis of a 1981 Ferrari 308 that was being taken appart and I'm currently putting it back together. The car was a bare shell when I got it... and now I have at least 60% of the parts I need. I know how hard it can be at times... and how many people will try to turn you down... or even ridiculize you. Don't be bothered... endure! It's YOUR project, and nobody else's. You'll have a hell of a nice car when finished! So keep it up! Those real gearheads out there will truly appreciate your efforts. But most of all... you'll feel amazing when you see the results sitting in your driveway.
Best,
Dan
Dan,
Make sure you get a copy of 32 Hours 7 Minutes.
http://www.32hours7minutes.com/ (http://www.32hours7minutes.com/)
You will love this Cannonball documentary. Lot's of old 308 footage.
Here's the first 2.5 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mXrJrXfakQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mXrJrXfakQ)
As for the Mopar guys....only a few short video clips of a white Challenger. I believe they ran the Challenger in the Cannonball twice, with Brock Yates as co-pilot one of those years.
Quote from: djcarguy on February 27, 2015, 08:26:16 AM
Clipped Wings,,is the GYCARS show with JOhn an his ravine Daytona.just saw it last nite an it is on this morning at 8 pacific time again . just as they were to talk an open johns trailer, the bar turned up the music. i guess thats why i can enjoy the show most times i barely hear it at the bar.
have to watch it again when i can hear it,i guess??? but sick of hair cuts an all that crap bout new DARTS what a waste an bunch of crap. the new shop looks big from the street but now we see the back is open,just a roof. the best to anyone whos car is on hold there..
hey john its DJ in oregon! :popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs: :cheers:
P>S> hey john if ya could get cluster with odomitor showing milage that wood beee coooooolll. :2thumbs:
I haven't posted on this car in a long time, I still own the Daytona and hope to start on its build in the next couple years. I got divorced in 2017 and it was very nasty. Good thing I never started on it or I may have lost it cause she was after anything she could get her hands on. Since then I've had 2 more children and ones legally blind so I really devote a lot of my time towards my family. But I do still plan on bringing the Daytona back to life :2thumbs:
You had 2 Kids in 3 years. Wow.
I am very sorry about your blind child. Kids first, cars last.
Quote from: djcarguy on March 20, 2020, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: djcarguy on February 27, 2015, 08:26:16 AM
Clipped Wings,,is the GYCARS show with JOhn an his ravine Daytona.just saw it last nite an it is on this morning at 8 pacific time again . just as they were to talk an open johns trailer, the bar turned up the music. i guess thats why i can enjoy the show most times i barely hear it at the bar.
have to watch it again when i can hear it,i guess??? but sick of hair cuts an all that crap bout new DARTS what a waste an bunch of crap. the new shop looks big from the street but now we see the back is open,just a roof. the best to anyone whos car is on hold there..
hey john its DJ in oregon! :popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs: :cheers:
P>S> hey john if ya could get cluster with odomitor showing milage that wood beee coooooolll. :2thumbs:
You can do it Nwcharger, Family first. I know what you mean about having very little time to work on your car. It took me 6 years to get my 68 R/T on the road, I did it working on it 1 hour a day, right after work till the kids came home. You can do it!
Tag in case it ever gets off the ground.
OMG NW!
Cripes you have had a ROUGH RIDE!!!
Been there myself, got the tea shirt, lost everything to a CRAZY woman... :slap:
But twenty years on, I NOW have the BEST woman on the Planet and a Charger 500!!!
God moves in mysterious ways... :dance: :dance: :dance: