DodgeCharger.com Forum

http://fitechefi.com/default.asp.pg-GoEFISystem4-InjectorKit

Compared to others this seems to be a bargain.



Mario

id be curious to hear on this too

:popcrn:

I've installed it on my 69 but am having some issues. Not with the unit itself but with my crappy wiring.  :brickwall:

I did have it running for a while and it worked great. It started right up after getting the air out of the system and self tuned in minutes. Throttle response was a major improvement and its nice to be able to set idle, rev limits, and a/f ratio from the seat with a push of a button. I'm very happy with the quality and service of the product.

I recently installed their GO4 unit on the 360LA in my '56 Plaza, I used their Command Center (bottom left core support) to simplify the fuel delivery. Love it, self-learn after simple initial programming with all kinds of options for more programming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuGpwP687lA

 :coolgleamA:    looks a interesting set up    :think:      an alternative  to the msd atomic


been looking  up all the info on  the msd atomic  recently :scratchchin:

The Atomic was gonna be my choice until I discovered the FI Tech. Does the same thing as the MSD (including controlling the ignition) for a whole lot less money.

Big thing for me is there is no ecu to mount on the firewall. Everything is in the throttle body so that made it a clean install.

Quote from: WHITE AND RED 69 on October 29, 2015, 01:52:53 PM
Big thing for me is there is no ecu to mount on the firewall. Everything is in the throttle body so that made it a clean install.

Quote from: John_Kunkel on October 29, 2015, 01:06:59 PM

The Atomic was gonna be my choice until I discovered the FI Tech. Does the same thing as the MSD (including controlling the ignition) for a whole lot less money.

  appreciate the feed back Guys  :cheers: :cheers:
  yes  , think your right  !!  seems the better set up  :yesnod: 
  think I will go for this  , at some point  in the future ,

Subscribed for updates. Looks like a bargain!

Quote from: darbgnik on November 06, 2015, 01:23:30 PM
Subscribed for updates. Looks like a bargain!

look here   http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,81877.0.html

New updates too, sweet. Thanks

im thinking their duel quad set up on my tunnel ram. can you imagine. one that ran right. how does it affect the  timing curve in the dist?

There is no timing curve in the distributor, the distributor advance is locked out and the EFI takes control of the timing curve via the hand-held controller.

thanks John. you just pull out the weights?

Quote from: John_Kunkel on November 08, 2015, 04:25:30 PM

There is no timing curve in the distributor, the distributor advance is locked out and the EFI takes control of the timing curve via the hand-held controller.

That is so cool...

Quote from: rt green on November 09, 2015, 07:59:25 AM
thanks John. you just pull out the weights?

No, if you just pull the weights there is still movement between the shaft and cam plate so you have stop that movement by welding or pinning. If the vacuum advance chamber is removed, the breaker plate must also be held rigid by pinning or the use of a strut.

ok. I understand. I guess that's one way to get a mopar perf dist to work right.

Anyone ever do some before and after dyno runs? Curious.

Quote from: CFMopar on December 07, 2015, 08:00:34 PM
Anyone ever do some before and after dyno runs? Curious.

Against a properly tuned carb the difference in horsepower would be minimal if any.

I do have before dyno numbers but have not gone back yet with the efi. It will happen soon but my carb was not tuned to fully maximize the power so I should see an improvement.

HP hopefully will be the same. But, Driveability and mileage would be the bigger benefit.

Clayton have you done any road tests with the new system yet?

Quote from: Dino on December 09, 2015, 01:39:32 PM
Clayton have you done any road tests with the new system yet?

I've only done about 100 miles or so but everything is going smoothly. I did have the idle air control waaay off for about 40 miles but a quarter turn with a screwdriver and the push of a button and it was all good. Still no mileage numbers as I have been playing with it and letting it idle in the driveway for long periods but I can already tell its better in every way.  :2thumbs:

My only issue is I need to move my fuel vapor canister to a higher point in the trunk. But that has no effect on the efi unit, just me being crazy.  :lol: 

If crazy made your car the way it is then have at it brother!   :lol:

How much would you say the total investment is including that tank, pump, lines and whatever else you need?  My current budget requires me to buy a carb next year but once I'm done with grad school EFI is going back on the short list.   :yesnod:

I went a bit overboard with some of the parts so it can be done cheaper but here is what I spent:

EFI unit- $995
Weld in O2 bung- $10 (kit comes with a clamp on one but I wanted it welded in)
Tank- $245
In tank pump- $220
Sending unit- $35
Billet Fuel filter with clamp- $119
Fuel Vent Canister- $245
20 feet of braided fuel hose- $110
25 ft of 3/8 steel fuel line- $25
Assorted -6an fittings- around $150?

So in total i'm in for about $2,100 + maybe $75 for shipping fully installed and running. The fuel vent canister, billet filter, and -6an fittings were just my preference and can be done without them for a bit cheaper install.

Another option if you have room in the engine bay is Fitech offers a fuel command center (shown in John's pic above) for $395. This lets you use the stock lines, stock tank, and mechanical pump. This will supply the high pressure needed without messing with the tank or lines. So for $1400 you could be all in and running.

http://fitechefi.com/default.asp.pg-GoEFISystemFuelCommandCenter

:cheers:

Thanks for that breakdown.  :cheers:

That's a lot cheaper than what I was thinking actually which is good news for a change!   :lol:

No problem Dirk  :cheers:

The good news is all these kits are becoming more affordable and easier to install. Holley just came out with a $950 setup as well. When I was looking 6 months ago I had priced a setup to be $3K+ so when I saw the Fitech setup I jumped at it.

The sad part is I know is a couple years from now I will probably replace it for a direct port injection system.   :'(

For those contemplating a FI Tech purchase, $100 more for the "Power Adder" version is money well spent IMHO.

http://fitechefi.com/default.asp.pg-GoEFIPowerAdder

I just purchased this system with the fuel command center. The instructions state it's mandatory to run a vent line from the fuel command center to the fuel tank or filler tube. I have the stock vent tube coming out of the filler tube and through the trunk floor and exits inside the frame rail. Kinda hard to get to from my inspection. I can probably get some 1/4" hose on it but doubtful a clamp. Is there a vent on the fuel tank on or near the sending unit? Has anyone installed this Fitech fuel command center yet? I have a 69 charger btw. Maybe it would be easier to run a longer vent hose out of the filler tube and connect to that. I'm working on it this weekend but any suggestions are much appreciated. I read white and reds write up which pretty much convinced me to get this but he didn't use the command center on his car.

I am planning on this system soon myself. I am planning on maybe drilling a hole in my filler tube about 3/4 way's up toward the filler cap and threading it and putting a fitting in it if it's thick enough and running my vent line to that or just teeing it in at the top of the filler tube where the rubber hose is for the original vent that goes down into the frame rail. You can call and ask the FI tech technical assistance and see what they say may be best. I have heard they are very helpful with any question's about their product's. I know I said a few years back that I didn't really like fuel injection after a real bad experience with a later model jeep wrangler but with this ethonal fuel we have these days carb's are harder and harder to get to run good as they used to. I have read several good review's about the FI Tech product's and the price is pretty nice too compared to all the other system's. Of course I would love to have a multi port injection system on my 493 but I am not talented enough to make my own EFI system and edelbrock's pro flo system is very pricey. This system look's simple and I can usually do simple, usually......

Wanna,

    Fitech is in the process of coming out with their port efi systems.  I don't see a Mopar listing, but there is a basic/universal system at $1300-ish and you'd have to supply the manifold, injectors and rails.  Might be an option to keep in mind for your 493.  I've been contemplating the same.  Trying to think long term, but don't know if I want to commit to that yet or not.  The $995 system may suffice until a full restoration. 

Looks like FI Tech is now offering a lower priced unit.

http://www.jegs.com/p/FITech-Fuel-Injection/FiTech-GoStreet-EFI-400-HP-Throttle-Bodies/3539375/10002/-1

That would be good for a mild small block I suppose but my 493 is most likely in the 500 hp range so I better go with the 600 hp throttle body. I emailed them about a few question's I have about the vent for the fuel command center and if it has a diagnostic screen if a sensor fail's like a check engine light in a newer vehicle. Just a few thing's I am wondering so I won't be worried about it when I order the throttle body. If I decide to do multi port injection later in life I can always use the throttle body on my ford truck. Lot's of good review's on these kit's and I have already ordered the fuel command center and I still have the molded 5/16 fuel line that I removed off my car that I am planning on using as the vent line since there was nothing wrong with the line itself I just wanted a 3/8 line on it.

I got the Fi Tech throttle body in yesterday but the fuel command center is on back order. I had ordered the command center first hoping to have it plumbed in and ready when the throttle body arrived but oh well. Got the throttle body bolted on today and had to do a little bit of tinkering with the throttle linkage since my cable was as far as it would go toward the carb and the linkage on the throttle body was slightly forward from the carb so I wound up using an edelbrock throttle adapter that I had modified to use on a holley that worked to my advantage since the hole for the carb stud was back farther than with the holley adapter. This took a few min's to figure out but not a big deal. Got the three wires hooked up, one to battery voltage, one to voltage with the switch on and one to the negative side of the coil. The only other wire to hook up goes to the fuel pump. Got to put the coolant temp sensor in and the 02 sensor in and the harness has plug in for them sensors so no splicing wires for those. The pipe plug in my water pump housing between the heater hoses was and still is frozen in the housing so I have the housing off now and will take it to the machine shop and get it removed so I don't screw up the housing or the threads trying to get this out my self. I really suck at trying to get broken bolts and stuff like that out. Also got to run a vent line to the gas tank too and hopefully it won't be that bad to accomplish. I am planning on drilling and threading the filler tube and putting a fitting in a little lower than the original vent. I have an extra filler tube and I have drilled and threaded it and it worked good so at least that should go good too. Can't wait to get the fuel command center and see how this thing work's out!!!!

I installed it last month and absolutely love it. Instant throttle response. Instantly starts up without pumping the gas and messing with the choke. No hesitation like the old Carter had. I absolutely love it. I went with the tanks Inc replacement tank/sending unit/pickup and a 650hp rated walbro pump. And the power adder FiTech kit. It will make future NOS install a breeze. As a plus, the power adder also has a built in electric fan control.

I highly recommend this kit.

Here's some pics I took right after the first test fire. The wiring has been cleaned up since.

(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u364/jrh1983/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151231_151535505_zpssxdsh98f.jpg)

(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u364/jrh1983/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151231_142720310_zpsbibgocoi.jpg)

(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u364/jrh1983/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151230_122708683_zpsgu5y7bhz.jpg)

JR, if you can afford FI you can surely afford the correct molded upper radiator hose. Those accordion hoses say "hillbilly".

Yeah John, I dont like that hose either.

About 8 years ago, I replaced the leaky original radiator with an aluminum aftermarket one and the upper outlet is in a different location.  The original molded hose wouldnt work anymore.

I never got around to finding one that would.

One day, ill take the time to find a molded one that will. The ribbed one is the "temporary" fix.

I am glad to hear you are satisfied with the kit. I thought about the power adder throttle body but the RPM intake I have is so tall there is no way to put a nitrous plate under it and then the throttle body on top of that. I'm just waiting on the fuel command center and gonna run that vent line and see how it goes. Everyone that has bought these kit's seem to be happy with them so once I get it up and running I should be just as pleased.

Try a Dayco 70734

Ill pick one up this weekend. You just saved me alot of searching.

Thanks! :cheers:

I got my water pump housing back on the engine after a guy at work drilled out the old pipe plug and got it out for me. Got the coolant sensor in and plugged up and also took my exhaust pipe loose from the muffler going up to the collector and got it drilled and the bung welded in for the 02 sensor. Put the pipe back on tonight and put the sensor in and it looks about like the pic and I drilled a small hole in a lip on the body close to the bellhousing to mount me a little bracket to tie the 02 sensor wire up with a couple of zip ties to keep it off of the header. Got me some 1/4 tubing ordered to run for a vent line for the fuel command center that hopefully will be here next week and it will be go time then!!! Getting anxious to see how it run's with this throttle body system compared to the old holley double pumper!!!

It's night and day. Wide open throttle won't feel any different if you have a well tuned carb already, but low end and mid range throttle response is a night and day difference. I noticed my 440 revs faster now also.

Are you planning on running it fuel control only, or letting it control fuel/timing?

I am planning on just using it for fuel control only but later on I may try to do the timing control but if it works good fuel control only I most likely will leave it alone and just enjoy it. I have a whole new ignition system with a firecore plug and play dizzy and wire set with ngk plugs and a new msd blaster 2 coil so that should be good as far as my ignition system goes.

That's cool, it'll work great.

The only hurdle you'll run into when installing it as fuel control only;

The "accessory" wire has to be hot during start AND run. The original harness doesn't have a suitable wire  as is.

Most people either;

Jump off the ballast resistor wiring with a one way diode,

Or

Run a push button start.

There are a couple other ways around it I can't remember.

Just a heads up.

It's worth it though.

Yeah, the white wire needs voltage in ST/RUN. Since you're installing the RTR distributor and Blaster coil, you can eliminate the ballast; hook the wires on both sides of the ballast together and use that to power the white wire.

The distributor I am running is not a RTR it's a plug and play. I had a wire that I had spliced into the 12 volt side of the resistor for an electric choke on a carb I was running a long time ago and the wire was still there so I tied into that wire. It should work since i'm pretty sure it is hot in the start and run position. If not I will figure something else out.

Won't work, the 12V side of the ballast shuts off in the Start mode...it works fine for a choke because the choke doesn't need power in both Start and Run.

awesome thread Guys ! i'm soaking up all the info ! defiantly  going with this set up , some day  :P

thanks for sharing the info  :cheers:  :popcrn:

Quote from: John_Kunkel on January 24, 2016, 03:31:30 PM

Won't work, the 12V side of the ballast shuts off in the Start mode...it works fine for a choke because the choke doesn't need power in both Start and Run.

How did you wire your white wire in? If that wire is not hot in start and run then how does the ignition system fire when the engine is spinning over. The ignition system has to have voltage to fire when the key is in the start position and also in the run position if i'm thinking correctly or the ignition system would never fire to start the engine. I can always tie the yellow wire for the starter relay into the blue wire going to that side of the resistor and it will have power starting and running for sure then. I don't think that would hurt anything. this is where I have my voltage wire ran for my orange box and it has always worked for that but I will PM Pete and get his opinion on this before I go to jumping wires around.

I looked at my wiring diagram and I see a brown wire coming from the ignition switch for IGN 2. This wire is hot in the start position. Can I just cut this wire loose from the low voltage side of the resistor and tie it into the other side where the 12 volt feed wire is?? I did read in the instructions and yes it does say 12 volts in the start and run position so I will have to do something to get power to the white wire in the start position without back feeding 12 volts back through it.

If you tie the brown and blue wires from the resistor then the result will be 12 volts in start and run, but you'll be without a resistor.  I have the Firecore RTR so I got rid of the resistor. Can you do this with the plug and play version?  If so, go for it.

Can't do this with a plug and play distributor. It is set up like a mopar distributor so the voltage won't be too high and burn up the coil and the orange box. I am looking at diode's to see which one I may need so I can tie into the brown wire and have voltage coming through to the white wire but no voltage back feeding after the engine starts up. Just need some advise on which diode to use!!

Only way to provide power in both ST and RUN is to use a diode as JR suggested or hook the white wire to the blue wire on the ballast and wire in a relay activated by the brown wire to supply power to the blue wire in the Start mode.

I have an old cat fork lift wiring harness that has 2 12 volt 25 amp diode's and where they plug in was also in perfect shape. I cut the harness of a good bit below where the diodes were so I would have plenty of lead wire going up to the plug in and the diode's. I PM'd Pete since he has helped me alot with other wiring projects I have done on my charger and the wiring has worked out great. He also mentioned a relay and also wiring in 2 diode's with the relay. I PM'd him today to see if he would fix me a diagram to go by since my relay wiring skills are not that great. If I have a diagram to go by I can run with it but if not I am kinda lost. My fuel command center is still on back order so I have plenty of time get my wiring fixed up and ready to go by the time my fuel command center get here.

This should work, connect the white power to "CC".

Looks easy enough to wire in but I wonder why the relay and not just install the diode in between the brown and blue wire and let it go from there. That will supply power to the white wire while in start position and block the voltage going back the other way. Pete had another suggestion for the relay and he is going to email me a diagram to go by. His description of wiring in the relay was different than this diagram and i'm not saying this wouldn't work fine but I think his wiring of the relay is more to power the white wire with it and keep the ign 1 and 2 wires completely separate. It's raining and crappy out today and the car is on jack stands so once I get the vent line ran I will get the car back on the ground and get this wiring issue figured out!!

Quote from: Dino on January 24, 2016, 10:28:25 PM
If you tie the brown and blue wires from the resistor then the result will be 12 volts in start and run, but you'll be without a resistor.  I have the Firecore RTR so I got rid of the resistor. Can you do this with the plug and play version?  If so, go for it.

mine is like this & no diode with A plug & play dist, works just fine.

Running 12 volts to the coil will eventually burn up the coil. If you are running a mopar style orange box power to your coil is supposed to be reduced. It may burn the orange box up too.  I will wire a diode in for sure but it may be necessary to wire it through a relay to avoid too much voltage drop. The thing Pete said about just putting a diode between the brown and dark blue wire is that it may backfeed voltage to other components powered by the dark blue wire. The voltage regulator is powered by this wire but I am running a one wire alternator and the regulator I have on the firewall is just there for looks now. So just running a diode may actually work fine on my application.

on mine it needs 12v at the coil.

My FiTech showed up in the mail today.   :yesnod:   It will be a while before I get to install it, as my car is in a thousand pieces.  I haven't got to read into it much yet but how does it work if I wire in the timing to operate off the FiTech unit?  Will I need a crank sensor and trigger wheel?  What kind of ignition will I need?

I currently have this FBO ignition box  http://www.4secondsflat.com/Ignition.html

I was considering purchasing a Firecore distributor and wires.  If I order a distributor then I would like to set up my timing to work through the FiTech unit.  Can someone explan if this will work with my current setup and how?  Thanks!   :2thumbs:

Excellent question....

Quote from: garner7555 on January 26, 2016, 09:58:51 PM
My FiTech showed up in the mail today.   :yesnod:   It will be a while before I get to install it, as my car is in a thousand pieces.  I haven't got to read into it much yet but how does it work if I wire in the timing to operate off the FiTech unit?  Will I need a crank sensor and trigger wheel?  What kind of ignition will I need?

I currently have this FBO ignition box  http://www.4secondsflat.com/Ignition.html

I was considering purchasing a Firecore distributor and wires.  If I order a distributor then I would like to set up my timing to work through the FiTech unit.  Can someone explan if this will work with my current setup and how?  Thanks!   :2thumbs:

the directions should tell you what to do, on others i have done you have to lock the advance mechanism, & set timing at 10 initial, also have to make sure the rotor is in phase with the dist cap contacts.

I'm thinking this should work?

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160128_072247.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160128_072247.jpg.html)

Pete got me hooked up with a relay and two diode diagram that will keep any voltage from back feeding and burning up components. I have the diagram out in the shop and I will explain how he did it so people will know how to do this in the future. He has helped me with my wiring problem's every since I started on these forums and has never steered me wrong. When I need some wiring help I always PM him for his suggestions and he is always good to get back with me with an answer. What he showed me made since once I saw how he did it. The double diodes isolates both ign 1 and ign 2 wires to keep them separate from each other while the key is in the on position but when the key is in the start position it puts voltage from both ign 1 and ign 2 to the white wire for the throttle body through the relay. The #30 pin goes to fused battery voltage. #85 pin to body ground. #87 pin goes to the white wire for the throttle body and the #86 pin goes to the negative/banded side of two diodes and the positive/inlet side of one diode goes to ign 1 and the other positive/inlet side of the remaining diode goes to ign 2. Pete called it an OR circuit.

After studying my diagram for a looooong time, LOL, I see that I would need a diode in the brown wire right where it says "Brown".  The voltage in run (IGN 1) would backfeed (but at lower voltage) after passing through the ballast resistor and could/would trigger the relay.  That would kill the full 12 volts passing through 87A onto 30.  Backfeeding is a concern, but shouldn't be too much of a concern, I would think.  Even stock, in start (IGN 2), you're feeding back through the ballast resistor to the IGN 1 circuit anyway, though at the lower voltage again. 

Ok.  Been stuck at work today and decided to find a way, LOL.  I have relays laying around at home.  Fitech is the round circle with the 4 smaller, well, the throttle body looking thing, LOL. 


(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/efi%20relay.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/efi%20relay.jpg.html)

Using two relays would work most likely, There may be several different ways to achieve putting power to both ign 1 and ign 2 with the key in the start position without any backfeeding consequences. I just decided to use the way Pete showed me with one relay and two diodes. The diodes I used came from an old forklift harness which Pete said were bigger than I actually needed but I had the harness so I was able to cut out both diodes and the pigtail they plugged into so if anything ever happens I can just unplug and plug in another diode without having to actually wire another one into the harness. I mounted the relay beside the resistor and the diodes are tied in right below the resistor for easy access if I need to swap one out anytime. If I ever get the fuel command center I will be in business!!! Still got to run my vent line but that won't take that long I don't think. Had 56 hours at work this week and I didn't feel like working on it today!!

Yeah, I'm not opposed to diodes.  Just not real familiar with them, and the relays are easier for me to get.  I know my wife's Focus has a diode in the fuse block that looks like a fuse.  The idea of having a socket for one to plug into would be nice.  Just trying to figure out where to get, and make sure it's rated (however the ratings work for diodes) for the application, just had me scratching my head.  I contemplated ditching the orange box for an MSD to be able to get rid of the ballast resistor.  But at that point, I think I'd go back to planning out a Megasquirt multiport setup.  Or use the washer pump switch as a push button start and a hidden micro switch for the washer, LOL.  I mean, I'm going to have the cluster out for the voltmeter/ammeter swap anyway, so..... :icon_smile_big:  But I'd loose the full 12 volt starting that the IGN 2 provides.  That is, I haven't looked real hard for a solution to that problem.  If only mother Mopar had extended the contact for IGN 1 just a littttttle bit further inside the switch. 

I worked up something similar with my motorcycle and 3 relays for the horns and fog/driving lights.  When you are running and the fog lights are not on, and you hit the horns, the fog lights flash when the horn sounds.  With the fog lights on, and you hit the horns, the lights turn off with the sound.  Visual as well as audible.

I was/am just about ready to order the Fitech and when this issue came up with the run/start power, I got a little concerned that I was going to have to rethink my efi strategy.    

Dude, I promise the minor wiring challenge will be long forgotten once youve gotten used to efi. Its worth it. Any efi system you install will need it wired the same way.

You could always let the efi control timing, then it isnt even an issue, and you simplify things under hood as a bonus.

This has been ths best money ive ever spent on the car by far.

Quote from: JR on January 31, 2016, 02:37:29 AM......let the efi control timing......

I hadn't even thought of that.   :icon_smile_blackeye:  I was in the BBQ smoker mindset of only changing one thing at a time to be able to keep tabs on improvements, etc., by keeping the ignition system the same.  When I started to add the price of an ignition box, it looked like I was back in Megasquirt multipoint dollars.  I'm not opposed to that.  What I'd want is the ProFlo Edelbrock like what Redmist has, but I haven't found a suitable solution on where to put the a/c compressor.  When I ran across the Fitech, the idea of a quick and less expensive installation was really appealing.  Have a friend that installed the Fitech on his Nova and he likes it so far. 

I think there's only one thing to do at this point..... :icon_smile_cool:

Let me be a little more specific with my question.  When the FiTech "controls" the timing, does it do the advancing?  And if so does this require a certain distributor?   

No problem igozumn, I actually ran mine the first couple of weeks as fuel control only before deciding I may as well swap it over. It makes much more sense. You do away with the ballast resistor, old ignition box, and vacuum advance all at once. You simplify things and add reliability.

You can wire it up to let an msd box or similar, control timing, but I don't see the need.

Yes, Garner, the fitech unit does the advancing in its' own ecu.

The mechanical/vacuum advance in the distributor is locked out to zero, all the advancing is done in the ecu. You also have to phase the rotor button directly under the #1 plug wire at tdc. But that's easy enough.

As for which distributor to use, Fitech's own directions call for a two wire distributor. Here is a useful thread discussing it.
http://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/fitech-efi-question-and-answer.27076/


Here is a screenshot of the wiring instructions for installation with fuel and timing control. Sorry the pic is sideways. I'm doing this on my phone.

(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u364/jrh1983/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2016-01-31-20-02-23_zpsfr1kcdqx.png)

Sorry the right side is cut off. The wiring you can't see the end of all comes from the throttle body. All the relevant wiring is shown

I am also interested in understanding how the timing control would be wired in.  There is something I do not understand. 

From the diagram, I gather that the distributor is used to tell the FI Tech control unit where the engine is, but I do not understand how it then connects up to the plug wires and plugs.  Are the plug wires still fed by the distributor?  Or by something else?  If they are fed by the distributor, why doesn't the spinning rotor determine when the plug fires?

I apologize if this is a naïve/stupid question, but if I don't ask I won't know, and I am not figuring it out myself from the online literature from FI tech.

Yes the distributor stays the same as far as firing the spark plugs and wires. Using the fi tech timing control you are letting the ecu inside the throttle body control your initial timing and your timing is advanced by the ecu like a modern vehicle. For now I am just going to use the fuel system and retain my regular ignition system since it is dialed in better than it has ever been. And wiring in the relay and the two diodes took me maybe an hour or so and that was me taking my sweet time!! Very minor wiring to get it hooked up and the diodes he recommended can be picked up at any radio shack or anywhere online. I just had free access to the ones I used but I think I saw a five pack of the one's he suggested for less than 5 bucks online. I will get that number he gave me and post it back on here for further reference. Glad to know you are very satisfied with the system JR and I can't wait to get mine up and running!!!!

Awesome!  Thanks JR for the help.  I didn't realize that the 2 wire distributor had the ability to electronically advance the timing.   :shruggy:

JR did it improve your performance any when you hooked up your timing to the FiTech?

No problem guys, you're welcome! Glad youre enjoying the setup 69wannabe. I am certain its the best money I've ever spent on the car.

I am actually in the process of switching mine over to timing control. I ran the fitech unit as fuel control only for the first couple of weeks of January, when I noticed some unrelated issues that needed addressing. So my car has been idle the last two weeks while I address everything.

I should scrape up enough free time this weekend to complete it, and I can give an update then.

However, I've read and talk to every other fitech customer I can find who installed there's with timing control, and I can't find a single complaint. Not one. Everyone seems to love it.

Not to mention the added peace of mind that comes with never having to worry about a ballast resistor going bad and stranding me again. I love simplifying the car. I have a 6AL box I could run now, but why bother?  Getting rid of clutter underhood is always a plus.

I'll post up the results this weekend after I have it back together. I fully expect the computer to handle timing control much better than the old vacuum advance ever did.

Well i'm not enjoying it just yet since i'm still waiting for my fuel command center to get here. I emailed fi tech to see if they had any in stock since I ordered mine from jegs and it has been backordered for over a month now. I decided to go straight to the manufacturer to see if I can order one there. Getting anxious to see how it works out!!!

If you can spring a couple of hundred bucks more, you can skip the wait for the fuel control.


http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=484/category_id=146/mode=prod/prd484.htm

(http://www.tanksinc.com/cartimages/prd_484.jpg?img_id=201508181025130)

I think I ended up spending somewhere around 500 bucks for a complete tank/sending unit/pump assembly, plus the AN hoses and fittings. Not that much more than the fuel control, really.

I would go with that option if I haven't just bought a new fuel tank a few years back. I'm not in a big hurry so I will just wait on the fuel command center to show up. Just anxious to hear it run with a throttle body and not have it burn my eyes when i'm standing behind it while it's idiling!!!!

The fuel command center is on the way from jegs and should be here next week sometime!! It's gonna be really crappy weather wise here next week and the wife just had a knee replacement surgery so i'm gonna give it a week or so for the weather to warm up maybe and let her get to moving around a little better before I get back out to the shop to get the fuel command center mounted and plumbed in.

Good luck with yours 69wannabe. I finished installing mine last week. The push lock connectors for the fuel lines really kicked my ass. First time I've used those so I didn't realize how hard they are to get on.

Quote from: xoman60 on February 06, 2016, 08:23:07 PM
Good luck with yours 69wannabe. I finished installing mine last week. The push lock connectors for the fuel lines really kicked my ass. First time I've used those so I didn't realize how hard they are to get on.

Have you got it up and running yet?? Yeah I figured them push lock connectors will be tough to get on but I am hoping my idea that I have may make it easier to get those together. I have read that putting the end of the hose in warm/hot water will make it softer and get it on the fittings better. I still got to form my vent line and mount the pump when it arrives. At least all the wiring is done and all I have to do is hook up the hot wire for the fuel pump and run a ground wire and plumb in the fuel lines to the throttle body. I am liking all the positive reviews of these set ups and that really sold it for me. Once I get mine all hooked up I sure hope I will be able to add my name to the good review list!!!

Got my fuel command center this week but had such a bad toothache I didn't get to work on the charger much at all. Finally got the tooth out thursday (thank god) and had a pretty day friday but had to drag my sister's dodge truck in that died with a bad fuel pump. Got the gas tank dropped down friday and got the pump swapped out but I broke the plastic fuel line and had to order one from dodge. Got the new line yesterday and got it on and the tank back up in it and got it going again. I did get the command center mounted and I have to get it plumbed in and I will be close to getting it up and running again. I was picking at the push lock hose and fitting just to see how that is going to go and the way I did it was I had a male #6 fitting that I put into the vise and screwed the fitting on and snugged it up for stability then greased the fitting a little bit and took the hose and held it close to the kerosene heater I had on and warmed the end of the hose up til it was warm and soft to the touch and pushed it on there pretty easy. I put the 45 degree fitting on one end and a 90 on the other end just to see if it was really that easy and both went really good so maybe this will be fine.after it cooled off it really seemed to be locked on there so maybe this week I can get all my  fuel hoses on and run the vent line.

Awesome.  Look forward to hearing about it   :yesnod:

If your making AN fuel lines (Like Russell hoses)..take the hose and dip the end that the AN fitting goes on down into boiling water..pull the hose out and before it cools off slid the AN barb in the hose..it goes on sooo much easier. NOTE: don't burn yourself with the boiling water  :2thumbs:

Good advice.

I'd also recommend getting a pair of these cable cutters from harbor freight.  They cut thru the hose like butter, and don't leave any jagged edges. (http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_17918.jpg)


http://m.harborfreight.com/28-inch-cable-cutters-6649.html?utm_referrer=direct%2Fnot%20provided

Quote from: SRT-440 on February 17, 2016, 09:34:58 AM
If your making AN fuel lines (Like Russell hoses)..take the hose and dip the end that the AN fitting goes on down into boiling water..pull the hose out and before it cools off slid the AN barb in the hose..it goes on sooo much easier. NOTE: don't burn yourself with the boiling water  :2thumbs:

I got my hoses made today and all hooked up. Just put a little bit of grease on the fittings and warmed the end of the hose up by holding it close to the kerosene heater in my shop and it slid on pretty easy. I am just now getting time to get back out there and get some stuff done on it. Got the pump mounted the other day but where I mounted it seemed to flex a bit more than I expected. I dug and found a bracket and modified it behind the fuel pump to make it more stable and solid. Got the mechanical pump plumbed into the command center and got the throttle body high pressure line on today too. Still got to make the vent line, get the radiator bolted back in, and the alternator back on. Getting closer a little bit at a time, it's been so crappy here weather wise lately and other thing's going on I just haven't had time to get out there and do much on it. Beside's that me and winter time do not get along good at all!!!! I am ready for it to get warmer and for the time to change back!!! Come on march and april!!!!

A really nice day today but didn't really get home early as I had wanted to but still got the vent line ran from the filler tube up to the front of the car. It isn't perfect but it looks pretty good considering I am not the best with tubing. I am going to try and get some pic's posted so yall can see what its looking like. I been dreading the vent line but after an hour or so it was on and done, got the radiator back in today too. Was worn out after a 10 hr day at work and a few more on the charger so after that I called it quit's for today. Had tool's and crap scattered all over the shop and my work table was not even usable so I decided to pick up and put up all the tools and clean off the table. After getting the shop looking better I noticed the sub frame connectors leaning up against the wall that I bought this time last year!! ::) I guess since the car is up on jack stands I could go ahead and install those and get that out of the way too!!! Had thought about taking a day off tomorrow and staying home and getting the charger up and running but our parts manager beat me to it. When he takes a day off I have to fill in for him since nobody else knows how to run the parts dept except for me and him so if he is ever out I get stuck with it.

Awesome to hear the progress!  I have a FiTeck EFI and command center but my car is totally dismantled and I won't get to test drive it for a year or so.  Drive that thing over to Alabama and let me check it out when you get finished.   :2thumbs:

Quote from: garner7555 on February 18, 2016, 10:06:58 PM
Awesome to hear the progress!  I have a FiTeck EFI and command center but my car is totally dismantled and I won't get to test drive it for a year or so.  Drive that thing over to Alabama and let me check it out when you get finished.   :2thumbs:

Where in Alabama are you located? I used to go to collinsville every now and then for trade day but I haven't been in a long time. I am anxious to see how it runs and nervous at the same time!!! I have read the directions over and over so everything should be exactly the way it's supposed to be. 

I'm right on the AL/GA line where i20 crosses the line.  I was just kidding about bringing it over, I'm sure you are busy and have better things to do, although you would always be welcome it you did pass through.   :2thumbs:   I'm sure you will love the setup as much as everyone else loves it that I have read about.   :yesnod:

Quote from: garner7555 on February 19, 2016, 01:05:30 PM
I'm right on the AL/GA line where i20 crosses the line.  I was just kidding about bringing it over, I'm sure you are busy and have better things to do, although you would always be welcome it you did pass through.   :2thumbs:   I'm sure you will love the setup as much as everyone else loves it that I have read about.   :yesnod:

That's not a bad ride, hoping to get some test driving done soon!! I got a little more done on it yesterday, got the passenger side sub frame connector in and bolted up. Not a horrible job but it kinda sucked too!! I am gonna drop the exhaust down on the driver side so I can drill it a little bit straighter since I had a hard time getting the holes lined up on the passenger side. I will most likely weld them up later anyway but atleast they will be in place.  I am going to double check my vent line to make sure I haven't kinked the line anywhere and that the tank vent is open. Once I get that done and I will put it back on the ground and get the rest of it together. Was going to do some more on it today but had a couple of oil changes to do on my son's and daughter's jeep's and got some bad new's about my little cousin losing his battle with cancer today and wasn't really feeling like tinkering with the charger today. Maybe I will have it going by next weekend!!!

I saw this and they now make one for roots blowers supports up to 1k hp, WOW and price is 2k...my 2 carbs alone cost 1800 damn it.......

I finally got the other subframe connector on there and checked to make sure everything was good on the vent line that I ran. Just wanted to be sure I didn't kink it but it all seemed open all the way to the filler tube. I also checked the factory vent tube to be sure it was not blocked and it was good too. Got the alternator and fan and belts back on it and filled it up with coolant. I was running the ground for the fuel pump and could hear a drip,drip,drip. Crap I had a leak, looked like it was a fitting for the heater hose so I pulled it back loose and removed the fitting and it looked fine so I cleaned it and put thread sealer on it and put it back in and put more coolant in and still dripping. It was the hose that had a bad spot on it. I cut the end off of the hose and put it back on and tightened it up and no more leak thank goodness. I really need to replace those heater hoses but for now I just wanted to see if it was going to run. After getting the wiring fixed up for the fuel pump I left the positive wire off and spun the engine over a few times to prime up the command center. Hooked up the positive wire and plugged in the screen and done the set up for the throttle body setting. I had to spin it over a couple more times and then it hit and kinda fluttered, turned it back off and back on again and it started up and begin to run. It wasn't very smooth at first but it was running. The throttle body almost sounded as it had a huge vacuum leak as it was whistling but after a few mins it seemed to get better and better. Must of just had to get all the air purged out of the injectors and get kinda adjusted to the engine but after a few mins of it warming up it seemed to run pretty good. I let it run awhile and let it kinda get tuned in and it does rev really good and I turned it off and started it up a couple of times and it starts good so far too so maybe in a day or so I will take it for a drive and see how it does on the street. It was late and dark tonight and I was just glad to hear it run!!

Awesome news!  Congrats!   :2thumbs:

Quote from: 69wannabe on February 28, 2016, 10:15:02 PMI really need to replace those heater hoses

I've got my instrument cluster out for the ammeter to voltmeter upgrade as well as prepping for my Fitech installation.  While under the dash, I looked at the short piece of heater hose in the A/C box.  Need to replace it because it feels almost plastic.  Only a matter of time before it blows, LOL. 

Oooh look! A sale:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,122708.0.html

Troy

Quote from: Troy on March 01, 2016, 06:03:08 PM
Oooh look! A sale:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,122708.0.html

Troy

Of course a sale!! Normal for there to be a sale after I just bought it at regular price!!! LOL

Hottest product on the market right now, can barely keep them in stock, and they're offering a rebate? 


But yeah.  Would have liked to have saved $100. 

Great thread. I'm also very interested.

I removed this the other day, never to return.

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160229_154444.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160229_154444.jpg.html)


Today, the conversion officially started.

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160305_110604.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160305_110604.jpg.html)

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160305_110743.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160305_110743.jpg.html)

It's been great here weather wise these last several days and I haven't been on the net but a few mins here and there. Got the charger out sunday for a drive with the Fi tech system on it and for the first time out it ran pretty good. It is smoother on acceleration now and the throttle response is better than the carb was. It didn't idle all that great tho and was erratic and idling high then low but it never died on me. The guys at Fi tech are busy im sure but I did email him and he emailed me back with some things to check. I got through today on the phone and he told me how to get my idle corrected so I done what he said and now my idle is solid at 850 rpms. It is still a little slow on deceleration and it hovers around 950 to 1000 rpms a little longer than I think it should but it does come down to 850 after several seconds tho. He said if it continues to do that he will help me get the deceleration adjusted to come down faster. Taking a little bit to get the bugs worked out but so far it's pretty cool and runs down the road great!!! Finally got to give it a good bath for the first time this year, it was due for a good wash job since it was so dusty from sitting most of the winter months!

Just a note for anyone else that comes across this thread.  If you're wanting to run a stock/original air cleaner, the Fitech takes a 5/16" air cleaner stud instead of the Holley/Carter/Edelbrock 1/4".  You'll need something like this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-66390/overview/


I suppose it's a good thing I'm not ready to bolt the air cleaner on.   :brickwall:

Quote from: igozumn on March 11, 2016, 08:41:33 PM
Just a note for anyone else that comes across this thread.  If you're wanting to run a stock/original air cleaner, the Fitech takes a 5/16" air cleaner stud instead of the Holley/Carter/Edelbrock 1/4".  You'll need something like this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-66390/overview/


I suppose it's a good thing I'm not ready to bolt the air cleaner on.   :brickwall:

Yes,I forgot to mention that you need an adapter/reducer for the air cleaner stud. The reason I forgot about it was because I had one in my junk drawer so I didn't have to go buy one...

Was getting ready to bolt the throttle body down and noticed it rocking back and forth.  Thought I had a wire caught, but no wire.  Thought I had some linkage interfering with the manifold, but no linkage hanging down.  Thought maybe the manifold was warped, since it's just an old Street Dominator that was on my other '69 Charger that I bought in '89.  Took the throttle body off to inspect everything when I found the issue....

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160319_182950.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160319_182950.jpg.html)


The bottom of the TPS sensor was hanging down below the flange line.  Was dreading having to grind on the edge of the manifold on the carb mount.  Grabbed the gasket provided by Fitech to check clearance when I figured all I have to do is clearance the gasket.

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160319_183529.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160319_183529.jpg.html)


Probably should have cut it back just a hair more where the little tab is towards the middle of where I cut it back (bench grinder for the win!), but it's now fine and bolted down tight.  Aluminum water pump housing and Milodon water pump from Mancini went on last night along with the fuel pump block off plate and fuel hose clamp/retainers.

Been driving mine quite a good bit lately, it's taking some time getting used to the throttle body when I have been used to a carb for so long. It's running good and I proud of my decision to make the move to go with the Fi Tech system. After some driving I noticed there was some fuel dripping from the frame rail where the vent tube runs from the filler tube down into the frame rail. I just ran the vent from the fuel command center and teed it into the original vent tube up at the filler tube but the FCC was pushing a little bit of fuel out. I called and asked the tech guy about it and he said it was normal for it to do that and that was why it was so important to vent it back to the tank. I pulled the filler tube out and drilled and tapped it with a 1/4 pipe tap and installed a 1/4 x 1/4 fitting about an inch below the factory vent tube and ran the FCC vent to the new fitting so any fuel coming through the vent line will drip back down the filler tube into the tank. Only took about an hour to fix this minor issue and have driven it a few times since and all is well now. It has really good driveability even with the fairly lumpy cam I have in the engine and has alot better throttle response than the carb had. I used to go in at dad's gravel driveway and I would be loping along and stab the gas and it would stumble and finally come alive and with the throttle body when i'm loping along and stab the gas it comes alive immediately!!! That was something that always bothered me about the carb and after changing part after part after part and no improvement it was time for a change!!! So far so good!!  :yesnod:

Nice.  Thanks for the update.

I pulled my original 1/4" return line off and put a 3/8" hard line in tonight.  Using the original 5/16" supply line as the new return line.  Tank is pretty much ready to go in, but I'm fighting the junk O'reilly's fuel injection hose clamps.  Going to check with one of the other places in town for a better quality clamp.  May have to use the worm groove, as I haven't had problems getting those tight enough like I have with the EFI clamps.  Found a good location for the O2 sensor and verified I need to work on the driveshaft at some point.

Quote from: 69wannabe on March 22, 2016, 08:06:02 PM
Been driving mine quite a good bit lately, it's taking some time getting used to the throttle body when I have been used to a carb for so long. It's running good and I proud of my decision to make the move to go with the Fi Tech system. After some driving I noticed there was some fuel dripping from the frame rail where the vent tube runs from the filler tube down into the frame rail. I just ran the vent from the fuel command center and teed it into the original vent tube up at the filler tube but the FCC was pushing a little bit of fuel out. I called and asked the tech guy about it and he said it was normal for it to do that and that was why it was so important to vent it back to the tank. I pulled the filler tube out and drilled and tapped it with a 1/4 pipe tap and installed a 1/4 x 1/4 fitting about an inch below the factory vent tube and ran the FCC vent to the new fitting so any fuel coming through the vent line will drip back down the filler tube into the tank. Only took about an hour to fix this minor issue and have driven it a few times since and all is well now. It has really good driveability even with the fairly lumpy cam I have in the engine and has alot better throttle response than the carb had. I used to go in at dad's gravel driveway and I would be loping along and stab the gas and it would stumble and finally come alive and with the throttle body when i'm loping along and stab the gas it comes alive immediately!!! That was something that always bothered me about the carb and after changing part after part after part and no improvement it was time for a change!!! So far so good!!  :yesnod:

So have you resolved your idle and deceleration issues?

The idle is solid now all the time, I have my desired idle speed at 850 rpm's and that is where it idles when it warms up to operating temp. When it is cold it idles a little higher kind of like a choke but the warmer the engine gets the more it idles down where I have it set on the handheld. I talked to the tech guy today and he told me how to get the idle to come down a little faster instead of hovering around 1100 a few more seconds than I think it should. It is as simple as making an adjustment on the handheld and he said to just go in the negative in increment's of 5's until I get the deceleration where I want it. Like anything if you want to fine tune it you have to drive it out some and see what is doing what and then fine tune it from there. The more tuning I do the better it get's and if something doesn't seem right you can just set it all back to zero's and go back to where it was to begin with.

Do any of you who run the system know how much power it draws? I have to run a power wire back to the battery in the trunk and want to run it this weekend. I'm not sure what size wire to run.

Instructions say main power wire requires 25-amp fuse. Why run a wire all the way to the trunk, the starter and the starter relay are closer and hook directly to the battery? 10/12-gauge should be plenty.

Exactly, I ran my wire to the starter relay for all time battery voltage. You could even run it to the big post on your alternator for a 12 volt power source....

My battery is in the trunk and the whole system is hooked to a cutoff switch. Push it in, stone dead. Then the system loses its memory and it would have to relearn each time. That's why I want it to have its own power wire that doesn't go through the cut off switch.

According to their main tech guy Ken, the memory is non-volatile. I specifically asked him about that because I have frequent need to disconnect the battery for system maintenance/modification.

One of their tech guys emailed me and told me it was and I should run a separate wire to the battery.

Call and ask for Ken, it seems that some of the other "techs" aren't as savvy.

Up and running.   :2thumbs:     

Have a leak on the pressure fittings at the pump, so, have to pull the tank.   :flame:

And the thermostat housing has a small leak, but I expected it, LOL.

Quote from: igozumn on March 28, 2016, 05:58:29 PM
Up and running.   :2thumbs:     

Have a leak on the pressure fittings at the pump, so, have to pull the tank.   :flame:

And the thermostat housing has a small leak, but I expected it, LOL.

Glad to hear you got it running, there will be some tuning to do but it's fairly easy and the tech guys there are very helpful if needed. I have talked to two different guys but both got my question's answered very quickly. Sorry to hear about your leak, like most things there will be a few bug's to work out of it...

I had used Summit NPT/AN fittings at the pump and Gascasinch sealer, which I've used on lots and lots of stuff (air cooled VW engine cases, sensors, etc for over 20 years).  Not sure if my Gascasinch is old (it's not) or the fittings didn't fit well, they did I guess.  But I bought some new fittings locally and some Permatex Aircraft Make a gasket and tried a 2nd time.  Still leaked but not as bad.  The new fittings were a thread or so shorter than the Summit ones.  Pulled the pressure side out and cleaned it up and ran teflon tape around it about 3 times and cranked the piss out of it.  No leak.  Tank back in, vent run, down off jack stands.......and...... :2thumbs:

Drove it to the gas station.  It already had 4.5 gallons in it, but the gauge was reading less than a 1/4.  I had tested the sending unit dry before final installation and eyeballed the midway/half point with the seam in the tank.  Gauge read half full.  Tweaked the arm and got the sender to read full with the float touching the top of the tank and empty with it on the bottom.  Put 5 gallons in and it didn't read half.  Oh well.  Put about 35 miles on it and put another 10 gallons in and it reads right about 3/4, so, I kinda have a feel for it, and when it hits 1/4 left, I know there's at least 6 or 7 gallons left.  Plenty of safety margin for not running out of fuel and pump longevity.

Right off the bat, the off-idle flat spot was gone, as it should be.  Deceleration had a bit of a barble or acid reflux, almost like a backfire, but more like those Lamborghini's shooting blue flames out their tailpipes.  Or at least, that's the way I like to think of it.  Acceleration (not hammering it of course) seemed fairly smooth and like it really wanted to just go.  I guess that's the throttle response working well.  Verified my temp gauge was waaay the heck off, but I knew it was.  Will be willing to see what the Fitech's reading when we hit 80 or 90 degrees.  With the Mancini housing and Milodon pump, I think I have a 180 thermostat in it.  (EDIT: Nope, was 160....)  Fitech was reading around 160-165 +/- tonight.  45 ambient degree temps for comparison.  I did pull the cast thermostat housing and dressed the chrome neck that came with the Mancini/Milodon kit with a file and my belt sander for a better hold.  With a new Felpro gasket instead of the chrome neck supplied gasket and some of the Permatex make a gasket stuff, I appear to have no coolant leaks.  Checked it at 30 miles and it all looked good.  

The idle finally did settle down to where I have it set at (770 rpm).  After about 30 miles on it, the deceleration cough, which it was doing only once on some, not all, of the manual transmission decel events (mostly loooong decels), had greated diminished.  I love, love, LOVE, pulling away from stops now.  With the off-idle flat spot gone, it's genuinely a pleasure to drive.  Speaking of which, I know it's just up and running tonight, and have lots of testing to do, warmer temps and such, but I experienced no exhaust smell tonight!  Something that's been plaguing this car for a loooong time.  I had even pulled my 509 Purple shaft in an attempt to rectify the issue, when I found a severely worn timing set.  But I still put in the next smaller Purple shaft.  It cut the nuts off of it on the top end (915 heads and factory manifolds 3 inch pipe and flowmasters) and midrange suffered a little.  After about 25 miles tonight, I popped it down into 1st going around a corner and put about 3/4 throttle to it and ran it up to about mid 3rd gear.  It felt like it had the old cam in it.  I joked with my buddy about how first gear midrange kinda made me do the "better hang on tight to this one" it felt sooo good.  

Long story short, put 60+ miles on it tonight.  I think it's worth every penny so far.   :cheers:  

ETA: Anybody experiencing a "whistle" on accel?  Kinda when you're 1/2 or so throttle?  Like if you had the air cleaner off, and how loud it was, it sounds like that.  Makes me think of the tuner guys.  I keep waiting for the wastegate valve to pop off, kechishhhhhhh, LOL.

Good job. Makes me jealous.  :icon_smile_tongue:

Quote from: igozumn on March 31, 2016, 11:02:48 PM
I had used Summit NPT/AN fittings at the pump and Gascasinch sealer, which I've used on lots and lots of stuff (air cooled VW engine cases, sensors, etc for over 20 years).  Not sure if my Gascasinch is old (it's not) or the fittings didn't fit well, they did I guess.  But I bought some new fittings locally and some Permatex Aircraft Make a gasket and tried a 2nd time.  Still leaked but not as bad.  The new fittings were a thread or so shorter than the Summit ones.  Pulled the pressure side out and cleaned it up and ran teflon tape around it about 3 times and cranked the piss out of it.  No leak.  Tank back in, vent run, down off jack stands.......and...... :2thumbs:

Drove it to the gas station.  It already had 4.5 gallons in it, but the gauge was reading less than a 1/4.  I had tested the sending unit dry before final installation and eyeballed the midway/half point with the seam in the tank.  Gauge read half full.  Tweaked the arm and got the sender to read full with the float touching the top of the tank and empty with it on the bottom.  Put 5 gallons in and it didn't read half.  Oh well.  Put about 35 miles on it and put another 10 gallons in and it reads right about 3/4, so, I kinda have a feel for it, and when it hits 1/4 left, I know there's at least 6 or 7 gallons left.  Plenty of safety margin for not running out of fuel and pump longevity.

Right off the bat, the off-idle flat spot was gone, as it should be.  Deceleration had a bit of a barble or acid reflux, almost like a backfire, but more like those Lamborghini's shooting blue flames out their tailpipes.  Or at least, that's the way I like to think of it.  Acceleration (not hammering it of course) seemed fairly smooth and like it really wanted to just go.  I guess that's the throttle response working well.  Verified my temp gauge was waaay the heck off, but I knew it was.  Will be willing to see what the Fitech's reading when we hit 80 or 90 degrees.  With the Mancini housing and Milodon pump, I think I have a 180 thermostat in it.  Fitech was reading around 160-165 +/- tonight.  45 ambient degree temps for comparison.  I did pull the cast thermostat housing and dressed the chrome neck that came with the Mancini/Milodon kit with a file and my belt sander for a better hold.  With a new Felpro gasket instead of the chrome neck supplied gasket and some of the Permatex make a gasket stuff, I appear to have no coolant leaks.  Checked it at 30 miles and it all looked good.  

The idle finally did settle down to where I have it set at (770 rpm).  After about 30 miles on it, the deceleration cough, which it was doing only once on some, not all, of the manual transmission decel events (mostly loooong decels), had greated diminished.  I love, love, LOVE, pulling away from stops now.  With the off-idle flat spot gone, it's genuinely a pleasure to drive.  Speaking of which, I know it's just up and running tonight, and have lots of testing to do, warmer temps and such, but I experienced no exhaust smell tonight!  Something that's been plaguing this car for a loooong time.  I had even pulled my 509 Purple shaft in an attempt to rectify the issue, when I found a severely worn timing set.  But I still put in the next smaller Purple shaft.  It cut the nuts off of it on the top end (915 heads and factory manifolds 3 inch pipe and flowmasters) and midrange suffered a little.  After about 25 miles tonight, I popped it down into 1st going around a corner and put about 3/4 throttle to it and ran it up to about mid 3rd gear.  It felt like it had the old cam in it.  I joked with my buddy about how first gear midrange kinda made me do the "better hang on tight to this one" it felt sooo good.  

Long story short, put 60+ miles on it tonight.  I think it's worth every penny so far.   :cheers:  

ETA: Anybody experiencing a "whistle" on accel?  Kinda when you're 1/2 or so throttle?  Like if you had the air cleaner off, and how loud it was, it sounds like that.  Makes me think of the tuner guys.  I keep waiting for the wastegate valve to pop off, kechishhhhhhh, LOL.

Glad you are liking the kit too!!!! After some adjustments I am enjoying the off idle response and the smooth acceleration. I noticed mine would kinda pop through the exhaust on deceleration at first but after some driving it pretty much went away. Mine had a pretty loud whistle when I first started it up when it was trying to set it's idle but I haven't really noticed it since.

Yeah, mine's getting better too.  115+ miles on it now.  Slight thermostat housing leak with the new chrome neck and Felpro gasket and the top tank on the radiator is leaking now, LOL.  But the cold start this morning, just put it in gear and take off....mmmmm......and the off-idle crap gone......mmmmm......and what appears to be no exhaust smell allowing me to smell the small coolant leak......well, that's good and bad?  Good and not so good?  Good that you can smell it, not good that you smell it.  Silver lining and all that I guess.   :shruggy:

I work at a Ford dealer and the guys that I showed today were really impressed with the setup.  I'll get some pictures up in the next day or two. 


Scared me tonight though.  Sent a text to my Nova, er, one of my Nova buddies, I mean, one of the Nova buddies that I have that had the Fitech system put on a couple months ago asking if he'd like to go for a drive, seeing as how I buzzed his house last night in it.  Said he would.  Went out to start it and it wouldn't crank.  Crap.  Hope my Radioshack pushbutton start switch hasn't gone bad already.  Long story short, the old original yellow wire at the starter relay was cracked and slightly shorted.  Bent it back just a little and was able to start it.  Guess I'll tackle that in the next day or so.  Now, about the radiator situation....... :eyes:

Ordered this setup 3 weeks ago and FITech is out of stock on the 30004 part #.

I went with the tanks intank pump setup and re doing all the lines etc...

BTW, the timing is controlled through the coil. I saw a few posts about that. You sync the computer to your physical timing(Lock out dist.) which I'd guess is 10* then the computer tells the coil when to fire to advance "X" *'s.

any news here? :popcrn:

Quote from: 68CoronetRT on April 11, 2016, 06:53:34 PM
Ordered this setup 3 weeks ago and FITech is out of stock on the 30004 part #.

I went with the tanks intank pump setup and re doing all the lines etc...

BTW, the timing is controlled through the coil. I saw a few posts about that. You sync the computer to your physical timing(Lock out dist.) which I'd guess is 10* then the computer tells the coil when to fire to advance "X" *'s.

you have to lock the internal advance mechanism inside the dist so it does not move.

Quote from: Rubberduck on April 29, 2016, 12:08:56 AM
any news here? :popcrn:

Why yes.  Yes, there is.  I said I'd post pics, and haven't done it.  So, sitting at a new desk at work now for a month or two, and may have time to fool around.  Soooo.......

I had used the choke cable bracket to mount a RadioShack push button to operate the starter.  While those that have installed the Fitech without the timing control and not had an issue with the system losing power between run and start, I figured this was cheap and easy to put in.  Sure, very minor inconvenience, but you put the key in, turn it, and hit the button to engage the starter.  Haven't had any issues so far with trying to start the car using the run side coil voltage.

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160229_164204.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160229_164204.jpg.html)


Started here.....what you see, has been on there for about 20 years.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160308_191627.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160308_191627.jpg.html)


Reproduction tank pad was about 4 inches shorter than the original, so I did what I think Dino did.  Craftsman tool chest drawer liner folded over itself.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160309_212516.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160309_212516.jpg.html)


I ran a reproduction 3/8 supply line and removed the factory 1/4 return line.  Used the original 5/16 supply as the "new" return.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160322_210108.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160322_210108.jpg.html)


I miscalculated the length of line on the pump assembly and ended up being too short.  It left about 1/2 inch on the bottom of the tank.  For anyone else running the Tanks Inc pump and tank, you have to cut the line down between the actual pump and pump mount on the assembly.  2 1/2 inch, or just a hair under, should be about the right measurement.  Heat gun works wonders for getting it together, and apart, and back together again.   ;D
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160305_151053.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160305_151053.jpg.html)

To use the bracket that was on the side of my carb, I had to cut a notch to clear the butterfly shaft from the Fitech.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160308_195010.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160308_195010.jpg.html)


The supplied temperature sensor adapter (silver) seemed to go a little far into the Mancini housing and I wondered if it would bottom out before sealing up.  I bought the brass fitting at the hardware store and was test fitting it, but from inside the housing, it looked as if the sensor probe might not get into the coolant flow and that might cause erratic readings.  So, I used the supplied Fitech fitting and all is well.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160314_200845.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160314_200845.jpg.html)

I had originally wanted to run hard line all the way to the throttle body, just like for a carb, but ended up running hose for time.  I put a couple clamps on the bolt for the fuel pump blockoff plate to retain the hoses.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160318_212739.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160318_212739.jpg.html)

I ground down the sharp casting line so it wouldn't cut into the hoses.  Also note the sharp corner of the water pump housing.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160319_173440.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160319_173440.jpg.html)

So, I rounded the corner.  If I had run hard line, this wouldn't have been an issue.  But, running 2 hoses around the distributor gets a little tight.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160320_172347_000.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160320_172347_000.jpg.html)

More in a second.....

The Fitech unit ready for installation.  I put the filter up close instead of back by the tank for ease of getting to it.  Didn't have to buy a mounting bracket that way too.  The covering on the hose is Powerbraid by Painless.  Expensive, but nice.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160319_181603.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160319_181603.jpg.html)

Installed, but not finished with the wiring at this point.  Couple clamps holding the hoses at the coil mounts on the manifold.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160320_164857.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160320_164857.jpg.html)

Went the temporary route on the O2 sensor.  There is a reinforcing bracket at the frame rail and firewall that had a hole in it, so I could tie up the wiring to the sensor.  Hardest part was getting the hole in the top of the pipe, LOL.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160327_165606.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160327_165606.jpg.html)

Had issues with a couple of the O'reilly's fuel injection hose clamps folding up when tightened.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160402_112035.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160402_112035.jpg.html)

The clamps I got at Napa were a little more robust and had little corrugation/strengthening grooves in them (visible on left under the screw).  Worked well, though standard worm groove may have worked ok in a pinch.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160402_112105.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160402_112105.jpg.html)

Ran the wiring for the controller and fuel pump through the back of the 4-speed hump with a hole and grommet.  (no pic)

What I started with.....
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160308_191726.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160308_191726.jpg.html)

What I ended up with......
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160322_185443.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160322_185443.jpg.html)

With new aluminum radiator.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/igozumn/20160414_215912.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/igozumn/media/20160414_215912.jpg.html)


I have 350 miles on it as of this morning.  First, the exhaust smell that has been present for over 20 years, is 95% gone.  Some discussions had it attributed to the high overlap on the 509 cam, but I had swapped that out 8 or 9 (probably more, LOL) years back for the next smaller grind.  Didn't make much difference and otherwise sort of regretted swapping it out, as it basically cut the nuts off.  With the Fitech, the midrange response feels like it has the old 509 cam back in it.  Top end is still suffering a bit, but that is to be expected with the smaller lift cam.  But, it does run good!  That just shows how off the tuning was on my carb.  I know the theory of how it works, how to tune it etc, but I just hated screwing with it.  You get back home, and it's too hot to work on, gasoline almost makes me sick if I get it on my hands....ungh.  So, I didn't mess with it.  The smell alone being gone, is worth every penny I've spent on it!  Cold starting is just like the car had been running for half an hour.  Get in, start it, drive off.  No stumble, coughing or otherwise complaining about getting woke up "this early in the morning".  If it runs this good now, imagine if it had the old cam in it.  And headers.  And better heads.  And......and......  

I'm glad you like the EFI.  the most compelling reason for buying into Fitech (at least for me) is the tuning aspect; you'll be that much closer than monkeying with a 'carb.  Maybe someday....

Quote from: igozumn on April 29, 2016, 10:07:32 AM
Cold starting is just like the car had been running for half an hour.  Get in, start it, drive off.  No stumble, coughing or otherwise complaining about getting woke up "this early in the morning".  

How long does the starter turn before it fires? 2 seconds or more?

I'd say 2-3 seconds.  I've been meaning to do a cold start video and drive video.

https://youtu.be/csYpyJuIjxU

Quote from: igozumn on April 30, 2016, 04:50:11 PM
I'd say 2-3 seconds.  I've been meaning to do a cold start video and drive video.

You can reduce the cranking time by quite a bit by changing the prime adjustment in the handheld controller. Go to "EFI tuning", "crank and warmup" then change the #1 to around 200 and the #2 to around 10. YMMV

This changed my cranking time from 2 seconds plus to a half second.

Wow, that thing sounds good.  '69 R/T SE.  Tan interior with B3 blue exterior and no vinyl top? Rare combo.  Then on top of that PS, PB, P/windows, 3 speed wipers, AC and 4 speed!  Very kool, and it looks like you are really having fun with it.
I have found that the Holley Street Dominator intake manifold is difficult to tune.  Below 2200 rpm it wants lots of fuel and timing, and then above that it wants less fuel and timing.
Couple of questions.1) I see it looks like your running vacuum advance from manifold vacuum source.  What is the timing when you crank the motor over and then what does it go to at idle when vacuum pulls in ( if it does)?
2) Is the intake manifold heated via the exhaust crossover passage? 

I don't think my motor will idle that lean (not heated).  Cranks at 17 degrees and pulls in another 9 when vacuum is generated at idle).  Idles in gear with 14 InHg at 640 rpm.

John, I'll have to get in there and check it out.  I've not done much of anything other than drive it.   :2thumbs:  I know it could use some minor tweaking in the deceleration, but otherwise, I'm extremely happy with it.

Thunder, actually it's Q5 Bright Turquoise Metallic with a white vinyl top.   :yesnod:  Originally a 2peed wiper, auto on the column (I know, I know, I'm bursting your bubble, LOL) I put the 4 speed in and had the 3 speed wipers from my old 69.  I have no idea on the timing/vacuum.  It's all been untouched since I put the engine in, some 20+ years back.  If I think about it, I can check it at some point.  And yes, the manifold is heated.  I am not running the blockoff valley pan.


We need a laying rubber smiley.   :coolgleamA:

Here's some videos from Engine Power where they built a 440 using FITech and compared a carb later. The carb had way more horsepower.

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-09/512-cube-big-block-mopar

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-10/mopar-magic

Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 03, 2016, 01:36:36 PM
Here's some videos from Engine Power where they built a 440 using FITech and compared a carb later. The carb had way more horsepower.

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-09/512-cube-big-block-mopar

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-10/mopar-magic

where is the link showing less hp?  here is one showing some good info, http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5457981&postcount=17 (http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5457981&postcount=17)

Quote from: cdr on May 03, 2016, 02:44:12 PM

Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 03, 2016, 01:36:36 PM
Here's some videos from Engine Power where they built a 440 using FITech and compared a carb later. The carb had way more horsepower.

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-09/512-cube-big-block-mopar

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-10/mopar-magic

where is the link showing less hp?  here is one showing some good info, http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5457981&postcount=17 (http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5457981&postcount=17)

The bottom link that will be available online 5/8/2016, 10:00 AM ET

Igozumn,  LOL!  Thought maybe you added the 4 speed.  I love the fact that someone knows how to enjoy,  and drive them, like they were built to do.  
Thanks for getting back with me.  I believe that heating the HSD intake manifold is helping your idle get closer to stoich (than mine, which is blocked).  Good to know.

Quote from: igozumn on May 03, 2016, 01:09:32 PM
We need a laying rubber smiley.   :coolgleamA:

:drive:

 :drive: Dang it.  I even looked there too.  :icon_smile_blackeye:

Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 03, 2016, 01:36:36 PM
Here's some videos from Engine Power where they built a 440 using FITech and compared a carb later. The carb had way more horsepower.

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-09/512-cube-big-block-mopar

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-10/mopar-magic

Watched this the other day and it was a cool build. But that carb was a fully tuned racing carb that was built specifically to make big power. So it better make some more power.

Quote from: igozumn on May 02, 2016, 06:41:14 AM
https://youtu.be/csYpyJuIjxU

Nice video. Car sounds great!

Put the MeanStreet version on the Bee yesterday and finished up today. Only drove it to the gas station and back so far. Might go for a little longer drive tomorrow.

Quote from: WHITE AND RED 69 on May 04, 2016, 04:08:28 PM

Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 03, 2016, 01:36:36 PM
Here's some videos from Engine Power where they built a 440 using FITech and compared a carb later. The carb had way more horsepower.

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-09/512-cube-big-block-mopar

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-10/mopar-magic

Watched this the other day and it was a cool build. But that carb was a fully tuned racing carb that was built specifically to make big power. So it better make some more power.

I agree, that carb was set up to make big HP, but that FITech they used is capable up to 1200 HP.

Quote from: igozumn on May 02, 2016, 06:41:14 AM
https://youtu.be/csYpyJuIjxU

Your car sounds awesome, excellent job on the video.

Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 09, 2016, 12:17:37 AM

Quote from: WHITE AND RED 69 on May 04, 2016, 04:08:28 PM

Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 03, 2016, 01:36:36 PM
Here's some videos from Engine Power where they built a 440 using FITech and compared a carb later. The carb had way more horsepower.

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-09/512-cube-big-block-mopar

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-10/mopar-magic

Watched this the other day and it was a cool build. But that carb was a fully tuned racing carb that was built specifically to make big power. So it better make some more power.

I agree, that carb was set up to make big HP, but that FITech they used is capable up to 1200 HP.

Key word is, tuned.. A real test would be a chassis Dyno after 1000 miles with the FiTech and then the carb, followed by real world driving test with the carb..

I've had enough, I'm pulling the trigger :2thumbs:

Quote from: will on May 09, 2016, 03:46:46 PM
I've had enough, I'm pulling the trigger :2thumbs:

Me too, I want one of these, of course for a Mopar.

I cant wait to get mine installed! It's sitting here looking at me everyday while I go work. Waiting on a friends garage to open up so we can get this going. Doing N02 at the same time... cant wait!!!

Thanks for the comments guys.  I have an email into Fitech, but figured I'd ask here of those that have the system installed.  2 times now, after a hot soak, when starting it has just barely caught, ran for a couple seconds at super low rpm and died.  Then, when trying to restart/start, it just cranks and cranks and cranks.  May or may not be some pedal actuating, don't recall.  Couple more times just cranking and cranking with no start.  Let it sit a couple minutes and try again when it fires.  Wondering if the Crank Fuel 170F is where I need to go in and tweak it some???  Figured I'd post here in case someone has had the same issue.   :shruggy:

Like McDonald's, I'm lovin' it!

Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 09, 2016, 04:04:45 PM

Quote from: will on May 09, 2016, 03:46:46 PM
I've had enough, I'm pulling the trigger :2thumbs:

Me too, I want one of these, of course for a Mopar.

Been looking at that too.... just installed the Tanks,Inc tank and efi pump so Im ready :2thumbs:

Hi i have a 69 Charger here i Norway and just get my fitech 1200 pluss and fuel comand Center Home and in the car!
First problem the vent valve on the fuel Center is pooring out gas (1 gallon in 60 seconds)  i have 5 psi in to the Center.
Second problem is the car starts and try to run for 2-3 seconds then stalls???
I dont use the timing control. I will use this later. I have a msd dis and 6al and i use blue wire ( tach signal) out of 6al. Red wire on start relay 12v. White wire on igniton key ???
I see some of you use some relay and diode fore the White wire????
Need some help here in the North!!!!

I have fix the fuel comand Center IT was to hige at the float level sensor !
But i just try to run the engine with the White wire on the battery and the small red from the msd box to the battery but just the same result!!! Its run for 2 seconds and die!

HELP!!!

I am use a msd pro billet small cap pn 8546 and a msd 6aø analog box pn 6420 With a msd 2 belaster coil. It was all god when i use a pro system 4150 carb on the 440!!!!

It fire With gasoline from a bottle.. I think that i missing rpm to fire the injectors.. But my tach is Reading so the msd sending signal... Maybe a fault in the unit???? Any here have a idea????

Did you select "TACH" in the "TACH or 2-wire+coil" field in the initial setup?  Not sure what else to check.

Yes i have selected tach and reboot the system. I Will try to call fitech tomorrow!!! 

Raymond73, does it fire off but not stay running? Mine did that until I realized I had to up the idle some. There is a Phillips screw on the left front of the throttle body. I had to put a whole turn on mine before it would start and run. It was perfect after that.

Also, make sure to pull the Rev limiter chip from the MSD!

Yes it starts but only for a second or 2.. I Will try that tomorrow. Did You get any rpm Reading on the controler?

Yes, but it very low.  400-500rpm. Try turning that screw and let us know.

Hi i have try too adjust the idle but Notting happens!
It Just firing on the gasoline the priming has put in to the body! And No rpm at the controler but i have rpm at my autometer tach.
I have to call fitech.. But i have to wait because California is 9 houers after norway

Hi i had to reload the system With the default v8 program inside the controler. It was missing rpm signal. But now its Running nice at idle and driving but full trotle its No god it feels like it choke!!!
Any idé!

Did anyone regulate the return line for pressure after the fitech unit? Or just TBI return connected to the tank?

Quote from: John_Kunkel on May 02, 2016, 03:14:38 PM

Quote from: igozumn on April 30, 2016, 04:50:11 PM
I'd say 2-3 seconds.  I've been meaning to do a cold start video and drive video.

You can reduce the cranking time by quite a bit by changing the prime adjustment in the handheld controller. Go to "EFI tuning", "crank and warmup" then change the #1 to around 200 and the #2 to around 10. YMMV

This changed my cranking time from 2 seconds plus to a half second.

My #1 was already around 256.

Need some help to chose a fitech unit. I allready have a dual carb setup with the edelbrock c28 dual manifold rpm. The price for  the dual or single fitech setup will be the same. But what would perform better? The manifold i have now. Or a single manifold? Thinking about using the torker 2 if i go with the single

Sorry for the simple writing i use. On the phone and with crap internett out in the sea. So have to type quickly before i get timed out. With a carb i think the torker 2 would be better but not sure how it works with a dual efi setup. Dual quad edelbrock rpm c28. Only info i can remember about my current intake at the top of my head

For this system, it's best to think of it as a self-tuning carb so you want to use the best intake for your specific engine build *AS IF* you were running carbs (ie a dual plane intake will likely be more streetable with better low end torque and a single plane will give you more power up top). As for whether single or dual carb/throttle body is better, I don't know. In my limited experience, "multiple" just means more stuff to go wrong. However, since these units come as a pair I'm assuming they have calibrated the computer to handle it.

What sort of power output do you have and what do you use the car for?

Troy

Output is around 450 hp. Maybe a little more. Its a 440 with some mild uprgades. Its a street car but i like to have fun. :lol:One reason i wanted to go efi was to get rid of my problems with the dual carbs. As you say more that can go wrong. Maybe i should ask support at fitech.

Just wanted to share an update with my experience so far.

The FiTech unit has been great, but I learned something for you guys using the tanks Inc fuel tank kit.

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/tnk-tcr9a-t_ml.jpg)

The fuel tank vent valve, this little guy here,

(http://www.tanksinc.com/cartimages/prd_98.jpg?img_id=201602051031080)

MUST be mounted higher than the fuel filler neck. Which is easy on a 1st or 3rd gen (I assume), but if you have a 2nd gen, that can be a problem considering the filler neck sits on top of the quarter panel.

Originally, I thought it only had to be higher than the tank, and mounted it under the car, between the shock mounts. This caused it to pour fuel out of the vent after running a while and was discovered at an AutoX.

Next, I tried mounting it level with the top of the filler in the trunk. Which seemed to work unless the car was facing downhill. Then it started leaking fuel out the vent when parked, (damn it!).

So in a last ditch effort, I made a bracket for it to sit inside the passenger side sail panel. That is the highest point I could possibly have it and have it out of the way.

Finally, it seems to do the trick. No leaks so far.

It was my fault for misreading the instructions originally, but this seems to work. If any of you guys have any suggestions on where you mounted yours, I'd love to hear it also.

Hope this helps someone.

Quote from: JR on May 30, 2016, 03:17:00 PM

The fuel tank vent valve, this little guy here,

(http://www.tanksinc.com/cartimages/prd_98.jpg?img_id=201602051031080)

MUST be mounted higher than the fuel filler neck. Which is easy on a 1st or 3rd gen (I assume), but if you have a 2nd gen, that can be a problem considering the filler neck sits on top of the quarter panel.

Originally, I thought it only had to be higher than the tank, and mounted it under the car, between the shock mounts. This caused it to pour fuel out of the vent after running a while and was discovered at an AutoX.

Next, I tried mounting it level with the top of the filler in the trunk. Which seemed to work unless the car was facing downhill. Then it started leaking fuel out the vent when parked, (damn it!).

So in a last ditch effort, I made a bracket for it to sit inside the passenger side sail panel. That is the highest point I could possibly have it and have it out of the way.

Finally, it seems to do the trick. No leaks so far.

It was my fault for misreading the instructions originally, but this seems to work. If any of you guys have any suggestions on where you mounted yours, I'd love to hear it also.

Hope this helps someone.

You are talking about the end of the vent line, yes? My 70 has ECS, which has a tube running up the right side fender panel. I was hoping to get rid of it, but sounds like I may be reusing it.

What are all the other Fitech users doing with this?

Yes Durwood, it's the vent line/rollover valve breather.

Myk, I'd like to hear what others have done also.

But the guys running the stock tank and the Fitech fuel control unit won't have this problem though.

I have been driving the car alot today and am happy to confirm the new location in the sail panel is still working great. I'm still glad I went with the tanks Inc setup.  

I didn't use the supplied vent.  I routed the 2 vents (one from tank, other from pump) into one line (as most have) and ran it up into the trunk through one of the plugs and tee'd into the factory vent on the side of the filler tube.  I had broken the original connecting hose there, so it was easy to hook into it.  Whenever I get around to doing the bodywork, I'll bend a hardline and hide/route it better.

In case anyone is wanting to jump on board, I ordered a 30004 (600 HP Power Adder) to get in on the rebate. I knew it was backordered. I got a call from the vendor the other day and word from FiTech was that there are over 1,000 of the 30002 models (basic 600 HP) on back order that they are trying to fill first. I have no idea how fast they are making them.

Troy

Quote from: Troy on May 31, 2016, 10:19:23 AM
In case anyone is wanting to jump on board, I ordered a 30004 (600 HP Power Adder) to get in on the rebate. I knew it was backordered. I got a call from the vendor the other day and word from FiTech was that there are over 1,000 of the 30002 models (basic 600 HP) on back order that they are trying to fill first. I have no idea how fast they are making them.

Troy

Wow, good for them.. I wonder if they have the 1200 power adder units.

Quote from: myk on May 30, 2016, 05:38:16 PM
What are all the other Fitech users doing with this?

Here's how I handled the vent, epoxied a fitting to the filler pipe and ran a 1/4" rubber line from the Command Center to it.

Just got my 30004 kit running this weekend. All I can say is WOW. This thing is awesome!! Pulled the fuel trims a little and fires up cold, warm and hot on first crank.

My ONLY issue is the idle doesn't seem to come up fast enough when cold and on a hot start come down quick enough to targeted RPM. But that takes 10 seconds and its fine so I'm not super worried about it.

Great investment!! x2 on the Tanks Inc setup for sure.

Oh and for the vent line, I just used the factory line that crosses back and forth in the trunk then into the frame rail which I assume dumps there. I dont plan on ever flipping the car over and if I do, leaking fuel is the least of my worries at that point. IF it even leaks. This is not a Charger though, so might be different.

Kind of on the fence on this. I started this project several months ago but ran into a problem, not with the fitech unit but my car had an issue. I knew it was going to be a while before I could fix the issue so I put my carb back on. My 69 runs a little rough sometimes and the other day I hit the accelerator hard and it stumbled pretty bad with a loss of power. That was enough for me to bring it to my local mopar guru and he found several problems with the carb, the timing was off and a vacuum hose was not in the right place. The car runs fantastic now. Its hard to describe the change but I like it at the moment so maybe I should keep it stock. So I'm not sure now if I want to even install the fitech efi. I have read a lot of good things on here though so it appears to be a good efi setup.

My opinion, if you already have it then put it on. Driveability and piston ring life will probably be much better. As for my personal car, if I can get the carb to run really great, I will probably keep the carb. If you have a breakdown with an old setup, replacement parts are as close as the nearest parts store. With FItech, if it fails you are done. Tow it back home.

Quote from: JR on May 30, 2016, 08:34:32 PM
Yes Durwood, it's the vent line/rollover valve breather.

Myk, I'd like to hear what others have done also.

But the guys running the stock tank and the Fitech fuel control unit won't have this problem though.

I have been driving the car alot today and am happy to confirm the new location in the sail panel is still working great. I'm still glad I went with the tanks Inc setup.  

I think this is a 70 Charger or any post 70 model with non-vented caps. We don't have a filler neck vent on these cars, so we have to get creative.

Hi i have driven 2500 miles With my 1200 fitech system now and its perfect but i had a lot of truble first.. And i will replace the fuel comand center to a setup to a New tank from tanksinc. And i will boost the 440 this winter☺ so i hope the fitech Will work perfect With that to!!

Quote from: RCCDrew on July 28, 2016, 07:59:01 AM
My opinion, if you already have it then put it on. Driveability and piston ring life will probably be much better. As for my personal car, if I can get the carb to run really great, I will probably keep the carb. If you have a breakdown with an old setup, replacement parts are as close as the nearest parts store. With FItech, if it fails you are done. Tow it back home.

That was my biggest fear I think about the fi tech set up. If something fails you are stranded basically. With the holley I am pretty sure I can get it going fairly easy and I can tell more about what's going on with it. The fuel command center is a waste of time and money and if you are going to do the swap go ahead and plan the tanks inc fuel system pump and tank IMO. Mine would have done much better with the pump in the tank instead of the command center i'm 100% sure but the cost's of all the tank's inc stuff was more than i wanted to spend so I swapped back to my holley at no costs at all and traded the efi kit for a paint job on my old truck. The only thing I really miss is that the fuel smell with the efi was alot less than the holley idiling but overall that's about it.....

Quote from: 69wannabe on July 29, 2016, 03:11:43 PM
The fuel command center is a waste of time and money

Have to disagree there, cheaper in the long run and easier to maintain.

As far as being stranded by a failure, you're in the same bucket with most aftermarket components...carry a cell phone and a credit card.

I'm not quite sure if anyone has really tried to find "simple carb parts" at the "local parts store."  A lot has changed in the last 10-15 years regarding what is actually stocked.  Can they order it, sure...but you can too, and it costs less.

If you are around an AutoZone/O'Reilly etc., just waltz in and try to get something like an accelerator pump diaphragm, power valve, or similar "should be stocked" item and let me know how it goes.  Maybe some of you have a mom and pop speed shop, an older store, or chains in your area stock more, but I think I'd be much more likely to have luck getting an injector in store than what I just listed.  I speak from experience and I don't like how things are trending.  If I didn't have a machine shop that builds race motors, everything would have to come in from Summit.

Most of the aftermarket EFI kits have very common, stock replacement parts (this is a big reason costs are coming down), and again, I would think I'd be much better off to have to waltz in AutoZone to replace an injector than I would to replace a leaking diaphragm on the front of my Holley.  Now if the ECU goes, yeah...you'll be sidelined.  But, given I can't get most $5-10 carb parts locally, I'm not much better off than that guy.

I nearly pulled the trigger on a FiTech Unit earlier this year when the sale was active...my only hold up was how well the electronics would hold up being built in to the throttle body...there is a lot of heat under the hood and a summer of mainly 100+ days wouldn't help...Kind of wish I had gotten it to know how it would do.  That said, it remains a pipe dream for now...but all the ethanol induced hardships have resulted in me ordering in more parts from Summit than I can get locally  :rotz: 

Raymond73, are you going with a centrifugal setup?  Would love to see the results there!

Hi i hope you can read my bad english!!! yes i going for a procharger set up from supercharger store With water injectors! Working hard for saving up rest of the cash!!! It was 6400.- for a complete set up!!! But i think that's the store to bye from because i have get a lot of help to set up piston and cam and intake from there support. And they are super fast to answer on email. I was in contact With paxton and the New tourq storm but i Just get silly and no brainer answer from those!!

Just checking in to give a reliability update.

My Fitech/tanksinc combo has been installed for over 8 months of hard use now. I live in the Southeast and see high heat/humidity/underhood temps, and not a single hiccup.

I still maintain this this the best thing I've ever done to my Charger.

Agreed, JR.  Have about 800 miles on mine and not having any exhaust smell is wonderful.  Only issues so far is occasional fail to start on hot soaks.  Had it happen about 3-4 times.  Found a thread over on Chevelles.com about tuning/tips for the Fitech.  Has over 40 pages of info so far.  Printed it all out and am getting ready to make some adjustments to try and weed out the hot start issues and get the idle to not dip when coming to a stop.  Best of all, I won't have to get any gas on my hands to adjust it.   :2thumbs:  

Quote from: raymond73 on August 02, 2016, 05:48:14 AM
Hi i hope you can read my bad english!!! yes i going for a procharger set up from supercharger store With water injectors! Working hard for saving up rest of the cash!!! It was 6400.- for a complete set up!!! But i think that's the store to bye from because i have get a lot of help to set up piston and cam and intake from there support. And they are super fast to answer on email. I was in contact With paxton and the New tourq storm but i Just get silly and no brainer answer from those!!

Sounds awesome...looking forward to seeing how it progresses!

Very cool JR, thanks for the feedback.  I hope to make the switch to fuel injection as soon as possible!

Does somebody got photos of their command fuel center vent line?
Im installing one in my 68 Charger and dont know whats the best option.

Thanks a lot

Quote from: TexasStroker on August 02, 2016, 03:37:20 AM
I'm not quite sure if anyone has really tried to find "simple carb parts" at the "local parts store."  A lot has changed in the last 10-15 years regarding what is actually stocked.  Can they order it, sure...but you can too, and it costs less.

If you are around an AutoZone/O'Reilly etc., just waltz in and try to get something like an accelerator pump diaphragm, power valve, or similar "should be stocked" item and let me know how it goes.  Maybe some of you have a mom and pop speed shop, an older store, or chains in your area stock more, but I think I'd be much more likely to have luck getting an injector in store than what I just listed.  I speak from experience and I don't like how things are trending.  If I didn't have a machine shop that builds race motors, everything would have to come in from Summit.

Most of the aftermarket EFI kits have very common, stock replacement parts (this is a big reason costs are coming down), and again, I would think I'd be much better off to have to waltz in AutoZone to replace an injector than I would to replace a leaking diaphragm on the front of my Holley.  Now if the ECU goes, yeah...you'll be sidelined.  But, given I can't get most $5-10 carb parts locally, I'm not much better off than that guy.

I know what you're saying, but if an accelerator pump, power valve or similar fails, your car still runs. Not sure about FI tech, but if your crank sensor or map fails, the car is done. I don't know if FI tech parts are stock GM parts or not. I'm not bagging on FI though, and I'm still thinking about getting one.

Quote from: RCCDrew on August 03, 2016, 08:57:05 PM

Quote from: TexasStroker on August 02, 2016, 03:37:20 AM
I'm not quite sure if anyone has really tried to find "simple carb parts" at the "local parts store."  A lot has changed in the last 10-15 years regarding what is actually stocked.  Can they order it, sure...but you can too, and it costs less.

If you are around an AutoZone/O'Reilly etc., just waltz in and try to get something like an accelerator pump diaphragm, power valve, or similar "should be stocked" item and let me know how it goes.  Maybe some of you have a mom and pop speed shop, an older store, or chains in your area stock more, but I think I'd be much more likely to have luck getting an injector in store than what I just listed.  I speak from experience and I don't like how things are trending.  If I didn't have a machine shop that builds race motors, everything would have to come in from Summit.

Most of the aftermarket EFI kits have very common, stock replacement parts (this is a big reason costs are coming down), and again, I would think I'd be much better off to have to waltz in AutoZone to replace an injector than I would to replace a leaking diaphragm on the front of my Holley.  Now if the ECU goes, yeah...you'll be sidelined.  But, given I can't get most $5-10 carb parts locally, I'm not much better off than that guy.

I know what you're saying, but if an accelerator pump, power valve or similar fails, your car still runs. Not sure about FI tech, but if your crank sensor or map fails, the car is done. I don't know if FI tech parts are stock GM parts or not. I'm not bagging on FI though, and I'm still thinking about getting one.

No worries...I'm in the same boat.  If I had the funds I'd have pulled the trigger earlier in the year when they had the sale.  As much trouble as I've had with the ethanol blended gas and inability to get parts that use to be common place for carbs, I consider it a wash in that department.  I kind of want to try FiTech on the Duster and then do the same, or try Holley's new set up for the Charger...for now, I've just stocked a bunch of carb parts from Summit and am hoping for the best.  I also sprung for a nice canister filter that will hopefully improve things for the carb and is rated to work with EFI...it is a nice stepping-stone, lol.

Quote from: recon68 on August 03, 2016, 05:58:21 PM
Does somebody got photos of their command fuel center vent line?
Im installing one in my 68 Charger and dont know whats the best option.

I epoxied a fitting to my fill pipe and ran 1/4" rubber hose to it.

Quote from: John_Kunkel on July 30, 2016, 04:39:12 PM

Quote from: 69wannabe on July 29, 2016, 03:11:43 PM
The fuel command center is a waste of time and money

Have to disagree there, cheaper in the long run and easier to maintain.

As far as being stranded by a failure, you're in the same bucket with most aftermarket components...carry a cell phone and a credit card.

I feel like if there was more room under the hood then the command center may have worked out better but having heat soak issues wasn't part of the plan with having just installed a efi set up. I had my heat soak issues with my holley down to very minimal. There were just a few things that I didn't like about it and i guess i'm old fashioned and was missing the feeling of my old double pumper. I usually keep extra carb parts and usually it's an ecu or a ballast resistor or a coil that puts you to walking but making the fuel system electronic just seemed to worry me and it seemed to run great sometimes and not so great other times and with my holley carb it is always the same every time I drive it.... Really just my preference to go back to my carb not any major problems with the efi kit.

There is also some good Mopar related info on the for a bodies only site:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/fitech-efi-system.321984/

Hope this helps.

On the FABO forum they talk about using a phasable rotor inside the distributor cap, these are available for the MSD units.

Figured I'd give a quick update.  Have 1000 miles on it now.

I went in and adjusted the idle screw in order to get my IAC counts down.  They are now around 10-ish at idle.  This changed how the idle came down on deceleration.  It seemed to hang a bit, like the throttle was sticky.  Adjusted the Decel open IAC to -25 and it drives like it did for the first 850 miles after yanking the carb, and like the carb did on deceleration.  I was having an occasional issue on hot soak, where it would fire initially, but run at like 450 rpms and then die.  Crank and crank and crank with no restart until I let the system shut down and re-prime, I guess.  I went in and adjusted both the 65F crank fuel and 65f after start to 5, and the 170F crank fuel and after start to 10.  Car hasn't had an issue starting since, but of course more seat time is needed.

I had the system off the other day to take a head off for a broken manifold stud, and noticed the cheap thin vinyl vacuum cap on the front had split.  Replaced it with a thick rubber one and all was well.  Last night, it backfired a hair up through the throttle body, probably due to trying to creep away from a stop light at super low rpms.  Immediately noticed higher idle, AFR was in the 10's, and IAC while cruising was 0.  Pulled over and both caps on the front AND rear were gone, LOL. Quick stop at parts house to buy new ones and all is well again.  So, maybe grab a couple extra caps for your traveling parts box, eh?  Maybe a zip tie or two to help retain them in case of some acid reflux post chili dog consumption.

Just giving an update to replace some misinformation I gave earlier in the thread, for anyone who searches for through in the future.

I found a good thread regarding timing control.
Here is an excellent thread from Johnny Pace of Pace performance who explains things much better than I can.

http://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/fitech-efi-question-and-answer.27076/

Hope this helps someone in the future.

I'm still learning about timing control, sorry for the misinformation. I hope to have that feature operable soon.

I believe you can run a 2 wire distributor as long as you can lock out the timing. All your doing with the fitech is telling the coil when to fire. Once you set base timing or physical timing then you can adjust electronically.

It will not control an HEI style distributor. You must have an ignition system running already.

So Fitech can control my Firecore distributor with built in ECU? I didn't think it could do that...

Will not work with the RTR units has to be the basic two wire distributor.

Whoops, sorry guys. I misread things the other night. Please disregard that post. And don't post after a long day working. :icon_smile_big:

Well, I'm about to get a crash course in the timing control feature. I just ordered the two wire MSD distributor from Pace performance, and will install it this weekend. I'll post an update with the results.

Quote from: JR on February 21, 2017, 09:31:10 PM
Well, I'm about to get a crash course in the timing control feature. I just ordered the two wire MSD distributor from Pace performance, and will install it this weekend. I'll post an update not the results.

Looking forward to this. Everything I've read elsewhere hadn't been using the timing control feature, and we definitely want it to given our compression (if that's valid--still learning).

Oops...no such luck. "There is no learning for timing control. If your engine experiences knocking, it won't make any adjustment by itself – you have to do the adjustment with the tables provided. The distributor must also be properly set with a timing light – to synchronize the distributor with the engine and handheld."

The way I understand it is, since our engines don't have knock sensors, the computer doesn't know when it's detonating. Those hard limits must be programmed in with the handheld.

The billet distributor is installed with a "locked out" rotor, about 15 degrees or so before tdc. All the normal timing advance/retard done by the old vacuum can and mechanical weights is now done in the ECU. The distributor is never moved or adjusted again.

But, the advantage is you can pull or add timing with a couple of button presses, instead of popping the hood and doing it the old fashioned, time consuming way. And if you have the power adder version, it will pull or add timing to account for nitrous or boost.

Ultimately my car will have a 175 shot of spray, and I like the idea of the ECU pulling the timing as necessary.

I have off all weekend, the parts arrive tomorrow. I hope to update this post Sunday evening with pics.

Well after yer post I've since just returned from a grand tour of things that go knock in the night. Figure I've completed the circuit cuz I just ran smack back  into where I started, static CR, this time tho coupled w/ VE, as THE single contributing factor to detonation. Bottom line bein that the EFI will help w/ our concerns over bein on some ragged compression edge (10:1 / 8.2:1 DCR) wh/ will only go up w/ the Eddy 84cc RPMs we wanna put on.

Adding a question to the thread here:

Anyone try, or is considering, the Holley Sniper kit? $995 and seems to do what the power adder version of the Fitech does, although I'm not 100% sure on that. It can be used with the Fitech fuel command center as well for those who are interested in doing so.

When I have the time I'm installing a Tanks Inc tank and the Walbro GPA-4 pump. I'll also replace my 1/4" return line with a 3/8" line and modify them for AN connectors and hoses. I'll wait to order the EFI kit when I've seen more reviews on the Holley kit.

I'm thinking about it. Pretty much the same thing as FiTech but the thing I like is it can run two fans where the FiTech can only run one unless you go to the 1200 power adder version(which is more $).  Ive already got a Tanks inc tank and pump on my car so should be pretty simple.

If you use the fan circuit on the fitech to trigger a relay, you could run 2 fans off of it.

Good idea 👍

Update:

It lives! I have a running 440 with functional timing control. I ran out of time today to fine tune the setup and drive it, but I'll post an update tomorrow with driving impressions. It fired right up. I'm using the MSD Pro Billet distributor #8546. It took longer to make the new plug wires with HEI ends than it did to convert everything else over.

So far so good!

Awesome! I'm looking forward to the updates.   :2thumbs:

What intakes are you guys running? Reading up on tbi's a bit it seems these units are much more happy on single plane intakes. Which sucks because mine's a dual plane and I spent a lot of time making it purdy...

I was running the mopar dual plane. Which looks just like a performer RPM to me. I have the fast ez efi. Have read all the stuff as well saying the dual plane will run good but not great and eventually cause sensors to fail on the throttle body due to fuel reversion. I had to pull my intake to inspect the lifters due to a noise. I had a spare torker II that I painted and installed when putting it back together just to avoid any potential problems. Gained a little hood clearance that way anyway, now I can run a 3 in filter element instead of the 2 that was on there.

I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

I don't know enough about the systems to comment on whether or not a spacer would help  :shruggy: If you have the hood clearance it might we worth a shot if you have issues with the dual plane manifold.

Quote from: Dino on March 06, 2017, 03:28:06 PM
I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

all you can do is try it, not every engine is the same. The problem is uneven  fuel distribution.

A dual plane with a carb spacer is still a dual plane, just with a bigger plenum above it.

Quote from: cdr on March 06, 2017, 08:51:34 PM

Quote from: Dino on March 06, 2017, 03:28:06 PM
I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

all you can do is try it, not every engine is the same. The problem is uneven  fuel distribution.

I have read about several people running FiTech on top of a RPM intake without any issues.   But some people say it does have issues.   :shruggy:    I agree with Charlie, stick it on there and try it.   I already had a RPM intake so I put FiTech on it and I am just going to test it and see how it does.   It depends on the engine, and also partly depends on how picky you are.   :Twocents:

Hi i used a eddy rpm performer last summer With a 1200 fitech and have 3000 miles on it! Flawless!!!  This summer i have a eddy torker ll With fitech and procharger f1 but it is still a lot of snow outside 😣😣

They did run up against this on the MT show, had to use a single plane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sQJPZYSoUI

(tho for the Holley)

The single plane intake *I believe* usually applies to port fuel injection where the intake is "dry". A dry intake is just moving air in an efficient manner with (hopefully) a smooth flow. Port injection assures the fuel gets applied exactly where it needs to be in the amount required. A single plane makes perfect sense for it! A Fitech is basically a carb replacement and the intake is "wet" just like with the carb. A wet intake needs to do all sorts of things like making sure fuel is distributed evenly and doesn't pool in certain spots. Theoretically, the engine should respond to an intake change in much the same way as it will with a carb (single plane moves power curves higher in the RPM range, dual plane usually exhibits torque lower down).

Having said all that... the sensors may very well have a problem on a dual plane intake. I can see that. But I don't think the engine itself cares.

Quote from: Dino on March 06, 2017, 03:28:06 PM
I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

No, the single vs dual plane has to do with how the runners are shaped. A single plane gives a straighter, shorter, more direct path to the intake valves - but not all cylinders will have the same length runner. The dual plane tries to make all the runners an equal length and the resulting longer runners help with bottom end torque.

Troy

Quote from: Troy on March 07, 2017, 01:17:55 PM
The single plane intake *I believe* usually applies to port fuel injection where the intake is "dry". A dry intake is just moving air in an efficient manner with (hopefully) a smooth flow. Port injection assures the fuel gets applied exactly where it needs to be in the amount required. A single plane makes perfect sense for it! A Fitech is basically a carb replacement and the intake is "wet" just like with the carb. A wet intake needs to do all sorts of things like making sure fuel is distributed evenly and doesn't pool in certain spots. Theoretically, the engine should respond to an intake change in much the same way as it will with a carb (single plane moves power curves higher in the RPM range, dual plane usually exhibits torque lower down).

Having said all that... the sensors may very well have a problem on a dual plane intake. I can see that. But I don't think the engine itself cares.

Quote from: Dino on March 06, 2017, 03:28:06 PM
I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

No, the single vs dual plane has to do with how the runners are shaped. A single plane gives a straighter, shorter, more direct path to the intake valves - but not all cylinders will have the same length runner. The dual plane tries to make all the runners an equal length and the resulting longer runners help with bottom end torque.

Troy

It has nothing to do with sensors, it is a fuel distribution issue with a dual plane intake. Injectors turn on & off leaving lean & rich spots in the intake cycle with Throttle body injection, a carb delivers a % of fuel to air throughout the intake cycle, the fuel does NOT turn on & off. A single plane intake has a large plenum. & with the Tbody set up has fuel sitting in the bottom from all those injectors random spray to intake stroke, thus filling the leaner spots during the intake cycle.

Quote from: cdr on March 07, 2017, 03:23:58 PM

Quote from: Troy on March 07, 2017, 01:17:55 PM
The single plane intake *I believe* usually applies to port fuel injection where the intake is "dry". A dry intake is just moving air in an efficient manner with (hopefully) a smooth flow. Port injection assures the fuel gets applied exactly where it needs to be in the amount required. A single plane makes perfect sense for it! A Fitech is basically a carb replacement and the intake is "wet" just like with the carb. A wet intake needs to do all sorts of things like making sure fuel is distributed evenly and doesn't pool in certain spots. Theoretically, the engine should respond to an intake change in much the same way as it will with a carb (single plane moves power curves higher in the RPM range, dual plane usually exhibits torque lower down).

Having said all that... the sensors may very well have a problem on a dual plane intake. I can see that. But I don't think the engine itself cares.

Quote from: Dino on March 06, 2017, 03:28:06 PM
I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

No, the single vs dual plane has to do with how the runners are shaped. A single plane gives a straighter, shorter, more direct path to the intake valves - but not all cylinders will have the same length runner. The dual plane tries to make all the runners an equal length and the resulting longer runners help with bottom end torque.

Troy

It has nothing to do with sensors, it is a fuel distribution issue with a dual plane intake. Injectors turn on & off leaving lean & rich spots in the intake cycle with Throttle body injection, a carb delivers a % of fuel to air throughout the intake cycle, the fuel does NOT turn on & off. A single plane intake has a large plenum. & with the Tbody set up has fuel sitting in the bottom from all those injectors random spray to intake stroke, thus filling the leaner spots during the intake cycle.

Ok, let's assume you just use really small injectors and fire them constantly... why would it behave differently than a carb? The reason EFI is more efficient than a carb is because it only supplies whatever fuel is needed by the engine so how is anything pooling? Just curious! I will have to do some research. I have one spare intake and it's an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap so if I can use it for a carb application instead then it will save me a little money.

And, ignoring fuel timing... don't you still have to consider the effects of single vs dual plane intakes on the engine? Won't it still shift the power curves?

Troy

Just did a very quick Google search...

Here's an answer directly from FiTech:
http://fitechefi.com/faq/what-is-better-a-dual-plane-or-a-single-plane-manifold/
What is better – a dual plane or a single plane manifold?

QuoteThe intake design has no effect on how the fuel injection operates. It will work with both of them so you should be selecting the intake based on your engine build and use of the vehicle. If you are saying this is a street engine you would usually want all the bottom end torque you can get which is what a dual plane intake will provide.

Similar (sorry for the off brand stuff but I have a Mustang too and there seems to be a LOT of them running EFI):
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/964057-tb-efi-blue-thunder-dual-plane-intake.html
http://1969stang.com/forum/index.php/topic/54491-intake-for-fitech/
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/89-efi/947458-adding-fitech-mean-street-496-intake.html
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/89-efi/875969-fitech-efi-tuning-tips-info-sharing-ideas-settings-etc-8.html
http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/tech-section/14440-dual-plane-vs-single-plane-intakes-efi

But, there's some interesting technical explanations here:
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/928969-my-fitech-efi-upgrade-thread-pictures-time-2.html#post7582073

Also, some of the "tests" were on LS engines and these seem to have a specific problem with dual plane intakes. I don't believe that will apply directly to every other engine on the planet.
http://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?17791-Single-Plane-vs-Dual-Plane

Troy

Quote from: cdr on March 06, 2017, 08:51:34 PM

Quote from: Dino on March 06, 2017, 03:28:06 PM
I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

all you can do is try it, not every engine is the same. The problem is uneven  fuel distribution.

  Look what my 1st reply said !!!!

Sorry for the delay in updating this thread. I came down with a sinus infection that stopped me from working on anything, but anyhow, now the car has been running and driving for a couple of weeks with timing control and I have some experience.

I'm using the MSD two wire pro billet distributor #8546, and the final verdict is it's awesome.

Compared to the standard distributor with vacuum advance I was running, startup is faster, engine pulls smoother throughout the rpm range, and timing advance is seamless.

Now admittedly, I'm not an engine tuning guru, and my old distributor probably wasn't tuned optimally with the correct springs, etc, but I can't help but think even if it was, the computer can control the timing quicker and more efficiently than the old vacuum advance and springs that the OE stuff used.

It was 400 bucks total for the distributor and new plug wires with HEI terminals, but totally worth it. My car has never ran this well in the almost 20 years I've owned it.

Great news JR!   :cheers:

I figured it would be a solid improvement. I'll have to sell off my Firecore stuff and get some new goodies. Sad that it won't work with the EFI systems as it's a solid ignition system, but I'd like to have the computer control it as well.   :yesnod:

What coil do you use?

That's funny Dino, I was using a billet Firecore distributor before also. It was a beautiful distributor, but there's no replacement for modern technology.

I'm using an MSD Blaster coil. (I cant remember​ if it's a Blaster or Blaster 2). Nothing special.

The difference in smoothness is huge. I just got back from a drive and I'm very pleased. The car runs through the Rev range fantastic. The pull from 55 to 90mph is silky smooth.  Dare I say it almost feels like a modern engine.

That's so good to hear. And that's exactly what I want for my car, and no fuel smell!

When I installed the Firecore RTR system, I merged the blue and tan wires that went to the ballast resistor so I could have power in key and run for the CD coil and I got rid of the ballast resistor. I merged the wires inside the car so they go to the bulkhead connector as one. That way I could run a single heavy gauge wire to the coil. Do I need to undo this?

Actually, you're good Dino, I'd leave it.

FItechs (and the other TBI kits) need a power wire ran that's hot during start AND run. You would have to do that same modification when you install EFI anyways.

Consider yourself one step ahead in your conversion. :icon_smile_big:

Well that's a welcome change!  :lol:

:2thumbs:

Quote from: Dino on March 19, 2017, 12:04:09 PM
Great news JR!   :cheers:

I figured it would be a solid improvement. I'll have to sell off my Firecore stuff and get some new goodies. Sad that it won't work with the EFI systems as it's a solid ignition system, but I'd like to have the computer control it as well.   :yesnod:

What coil do you use?

I bought a 2 wire Firecore distributor just because I wanted to use timing control with my FiTech.   I sure hope it works!   

Quote from: garner7555 on March 19, 2017, 07:32:00 PM

Quote from: Dino on March 19, 2017, 12:04:09 PM
Great news JR!   :cheers:

I figured it would be a solid improvement. I'll have to sell off my Firecore stuff and get some new goodies. Sad that it won't work with the EFI systems as it's a solid ignition system, but I'd like to have the computer control it as well.   :yesnod:

What coil do you use?

I bought a 2 wire Firecore distributor just because I wanted to use timing control with my FiTech.   I sure hope it works!   

As long as it's not the RTR dizzy then it will. I wish they came without the vacuum advance pod. Still, I may end up getting that exact same one. I really like the quality of the Firecore products. I'm definitely keeping my plug wires!   :yesnod:

My 2 wire doesn't have vaccuum advance if I remember correctly.   I think it was mechanical advance only (which I already locked out at 0).       :2thumbs:

Quote from: garner7555 on March 19, 2017, 07:42:27 PM
My 2 wire doesn't have vaccuum advance if I remember correctly.   I think it was mechanical advance only (which I already locked out at 0).       :2thumbs:

What!? Firecore sells two wire dizzies with mechanical advance?? Oh dude! I had no idea! Well that settles it then, I'm getting one of those.   :yesnod:

Where did you buy yours?

Here is a picture of my current setup.   I like the small, sleek look of the Firecore.    I ordered mine through Ron (Firefighter)

Another angle.

Ah gotcha, you're running the tall dizzy. I need the stock size and that one only comes with the vacuum advance. Maybe there's a block off plate for those. I'll have to check.

Garner, if that is an equivalent distributor to the msd pro billet it should work fine, no worries.

I forget the model number, but my firecore was the direct replacement stock style distributor with vacuum advance. It would not work with timing control, it would be like trying to use a stock distributor.

Heres the best pic I have of the old distributor I had that I replaced.  (http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u364/jrh1983/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161026_121639933_HDR_zpsf5rstfts.jpg)

Yours looks different,  I think youll be fine.

I thought all you needed was a two wire? I know the RTR doesn't work because it has its own ECU. So what type is needed to work with timing control? What's special about them? Or what does a stock electronic distributor lack to work with timing control? I have lots to learn here.   :icon_smile_big:

Quote from: JR on March 19, 2017, 09:10:48 PM
Garner, if that is an equivalent distributor to the msd pro billet it should work fine, no worries.

I forget the model number, but my firecore was the direct replacement stock style distributor with vacuum advance. It would not work with timing control, it would be like trying to use a stock distributor.

Heres the best pic I have of the old distributor I had that I replaced.  (http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u364/jrh1983/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161026_121639933_HDR_zpsf5rstfts.jpg)

Yours looks different,  I think youll be fine.

Actually, from what I'm told you can use a stock style 2 wire distributor if you "lock it out".  I think you have to weld it to lock it out.    This obviously isn't the best way though.    In my opinion the Fire core or the MSD like you used are far better quality than necessary.  However, the stock "rebuilt" 2 wire distributor was less than adequate in accuracy.   

Thanks for the write up JR.  I have been waiting to hear how you liked it. 

Actually Garner, a stock distributor will not work. Even with the advance locked.

I learned this while I was experimenting with timing control a while back. Stock distributors dont produce a clean enough signal for the Fitech to read. Too much RF interference. I actually tried a stock distributor, and the standard replacement firecore. Neither would work, both threw a trouble code for  "ignition noise" or something like it. The phasable rotor is also VERY important. You have to set the initial base timing by turning the distributor the traditional way, program the base timing in the computer, then phase the rotor.

Heres a quote from Johnny at Pace Peformance who explains it better than I can:

"....Fitech Compatible Ignition system.

OK..so there are several considerations with ignition components that work, and that don't. Primarily...The factory chrysler ignition needs discarded entirely. But i'll come back to this and explain why in a moment.

...........

All of the fitechs require a clean tach signal to operate. So this needs to come from the above. The factory chrylser stuff simply does NOT have it. Do NOT waste your time thinking you're going to "make this work somehow" with a $40 rock auto distributor, or a $20 piece of shielded wire... I have had 100 guys call me back at a later date to order the distributor i told them then would need, and about 1 to date that somehow got a mopar distributor to work. it's simply not worth sacrificing the reliability, and initial setup if your $1500 worth of EFI system and pumps...on a 40 year old, or $40 distributor.

2. All the other fitech units can control timing, or can work in fuel only. For Timing control. this requires a pro-billet, pro-series style distributor with a phasable rotor...."

Here is the thread. http://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/fitech-efi-question-and-answer.27076/

Quote from: JR on May 30, 2016, 03:17:00 PM
Just wanted to share an update with my experience so far.

The FiTech unit has been great, but I learned something for you guys using the tanks Inc fuel tank kit.

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/tnk-tcr9a-t_ml.jpg)

The fuel tank vent valve, this little guy here,

(http://www.tanksinc.com/cartimages/prd_98.jpg?img_id=201602051031080)

MUST be mounted higher than the fuel filler neck. Which is easy on a 1st or 3rd gen (I assume), but if you have a 2nd gen, that can be a problem considering the filler neck sits on top of the quarter panel.

Originally, I thought it only had to be higher than the tank, and mounted it under the car, between the shock mounts. This caused it to pour fuel out of the vent after running a while and was discovered at an AutoX.

Next, I tried mounting it level with the top of the filler in the trunk. Which seemed to work unless the car was facing downhill. Then it started leaking fuel out the vent when parked, (damn it!).

So in a last ditch effort, I made a bracket for it to sit inside the passenger side sail panel. That is the highest point I could possibly have it and have it out of the way.

Finally, it seems to do the trick. No leaks so far.

It was my fault for misreading the instructions originally, but this seems to work. If any of you guys have any suggestions on where you mounted yours, I'd love to hear it also.

Hope this helps someone.

So has anybody figured out what is really the best way to install this vent line on our 2nd gen Chargers?

Well, I can say I've been running mine in the same configuration for over a year, (with rollover vent in the sail panel) with absolutely no problems at all. Gas cap is sealed tight, no fuel vapors, and runs like a late model vehicle.

You're free to vent the line through the original vent line in the top of the filler neck, but then you don't have the safety feature of the rollover valve. And you can't seal the fuel filler cap tight without creating a vacuum, so fuel will leak out of the cap under hard cornering if you go that route.

I'm not saying my way is THE way, but it's worked for me for over a year with no problem.

This is only an "issue" on 2nd gen Chargers (and Challengers to a smaller extent id imagine.)  I think every other Mopar with a conventional fuel cap location would be no problem at all.

I too used the stock vent from the top of the tank that dumps into the frame rail, and on my car (Coronet) you used a sealed non vented gas cap. So far I've had no issues with fuel coming out the cap or vacuum in the tank.

I would suspect either your fuel cap isnt fully sealed and is allowing air in, or you arent driving the car long enough for the vacuum to cause an issue.

If you plumb the vent into that line, with the cap sealed,  theres no air to replace the fuel that is pulled from the tank. In a worst case scenario,  that could cause the fuel pump to burn up, the engine to run poorly, or the tank to collapse.

You cannot put fuel into your tank, unless you can get the air out...and you cannot withdraw fuel from your tank unless you can let air in.

Here is an excerpt from Tanks Inc own website:

Up through the 1960's, most vehicles used vented gas caps.  This is simply a gas cap with a hole in it. Unfortunately, this hole would allow the fuel to splash out when accelerating or turning a corner.


Your tank has to breathe. In order to breathe, your tank must have a vent somewhere that will relieve both vacuum and pressure. Gasoline expands in volume as it warms up and shrinks in volume as it cools down. The fuel level of your tank changes throughout the day, even if you are not driving it.

If you are running a vent line it is important that the line is ran higher than the highest point on the tank including the fuel filler neck.  Also, the vent line cannot have a dip in it where fuel or condensation can get trapped in the line.  If fuel becomes trapped in the line your tank will then build pressure or vacuum until there is enough pressure to purge the vent which will cause gas and/or odor to come from the vent line.  If enough pressure builds up damage could be caused to your tank.

Remote Rollover Vent Diagram
If you are using our remote rollover vent valve # VVR  make sure that the vent is mounted vertically.  Mounting the vent at an angle may cause the vent to shut off.

But isnt the vent line a 2 way street? When under vacuum its pulling fresh air and when it needs to expand, it vents?

The roll over valve is ment to shut off fuel from spilling in the event of a roll over through the vent line. But it's still your only vent.

Maybe I should switch to a vented cap? I never drive the car that long, and when I do it's never an issue.

The original dodge vent line that just dumped the fuel on the ground was a two way street.

BUT if you've tapped the fuel tank vent line into that same vent line, and it terminates at the top of the filler neck, with a sealed gas cap, then you have no venting at all, and it is slowly creating a vacuum as fuel is pulled from the tank. Plumbing the vent line to the OE vent hose and capping it off is effectively useless, it's doing nothing.

It would run absolutely fine and create no problem for the fuel pump if you keep the same configuration, and switched to a vented fuel cap. The pump, and EFI would be happy.

BUT, if you do that, you don't have the protection of the rollover valve in an accident, and it you ever do any hard launches at the drag strip, or hard cornering, fuel will come out of the cap. It's technically not a big deal if that happens, (all cars did that until the mid 70s), but it's not THE best way to do things. It literally is leaking your money out of the cap, and polluting unnecessarily.

But if you don't track the car, and just like to cruise on the street, you'll likely never have a problem with it. Just switch to a vented fuel cap asap if you want to run it that way.

JR, I think you are thinking I have a Charger with the long tube from the gas cap to tank. With the Road Runners/Coronets etc... there is a fuel vent line from the tank where the sending unit bolts down and that line goes up and cris crosses inside the trunk and then over to pass frame rail into open air. Thus a vent that works both ways because its exposed to open air.

The bottom line is, you cannot have a fuel tank that is 100% air tight. What your saying is if you terminate the vent back into the fill neck (Charger) then your still creating an air tight gas tank.

So I think we are both correct here. :2thumbs:

Oh, ok, your terminating your vent into the open atmosphere.

My mistake. :cheers:

Just spoke w/ the guy who will be our "builder," and he said for our 435hp build (Hughes 223/228, 111* LSA), we might wanna go with their 400hp version rather than the 600hp...said they run a little rich. We definitely don't wanna over-carb--has the QF 780 now for 906 heads/wedge intake/shorty headers (1 3/4")--and said to definitely call FiTech. He's put in 3 so far and likes them a lot.

hey JR. I'm trying to get timing control going with a firecore dist and can't get it to fire. I get RPM signal but no spark. I found the rotor phase and reluctor wheel seems off by a little which makes me think the signal is firing but too late.

Did you have to set the rotor phasing with the MSD dist? Or can you give me the steps on how you got everything timed and happy with each other? Like base timing etc etc

I'm currently running the Firecore 2 wire billet dist.

Edit: did a bunch of reading and it seems you HAVE TO be able to phase the rotor. Calling Fitech tomorrow to find out. Luckily they are 45 mins from me, might have to take a drive up there and see what's up.

Quote from: 68CoronetRT on April 16, 2017, 02:44:19 PM
hey JR. I'm trying to get timing control going with a firecore dist and can't get it to fire. I get RPM signal but no spark. I found the rotor phase and reluctor wheel seems off by a little which makes me think the signal is firing but too late.

Did you have to set the rotor phasing with the MSD dist? Or can you give me the steps on how you got everything timed and happy with each other? Like base timing etc etc

I'm currently running the Firecore 2 wire billet dist.

Edit: did a bunch of reading and it seems you HAVE TO be able to phase the rotor. Calling Fitech tomorrow to find out. Luckily they are 45 mins from me, might have to take a drive up there and see what's up.

Please post the results because I have the same distributor for my FiTech.   :2thumbs:

Quote from: 68CoronetRT on April 16, 2017, 02:44:19 PM
hey JR. I'm trying to get timing control going with a firecore dist and can't get it to fire. I get RPM signal but no spark. I found the rotor phase and reluctor wheel seems off by a little which makes me think the signal is firing but too late.

Did you have to set the rotor phasing with the MSD dist? Or can you give me the steps on how you got everything timed and happy with each other? Like base timing etc etc

I'm currently running the Firecore 2 wire billet dist.

Edit: did a bunch of reading and it seems you HAVE TO be able to phase the rotor. Calling Fitech tomorrow to find out. Luckily they are 45 mins from me, might have to take a drive up there and see what's up.

Yeah man, no problem.

First off, a phasable rotor/locked out distributor is a MUST. Basically​, with the ECU controlling timing, the rotor must be locked in place with no mechanical advance. The FItech will control every aspect of advance/retard. The mechanical springs will clash with what the ECU is inputting. Basically, if the rotor isn't locked out, and the mechanical springs advance 15 degrees, and the computer also advances 15 degrees, add in your base timing and you've got WAY too much timing. The FItech also has no way to sense where the distributor is, so you have to set it up mechanically, then tell the computer the settings, and it takes over from there.
The phasable rotor is a must because once you've got your timing set and the distributor locked, it's doubtful that the spark jumping from the cap to the rotor will line up perfectly. It will likely be offset to one corner, and will burn up ignition components quickly. The phasable rotor allows you to adjust this correctly.

The simplified installation instructions are.
1. Change the wiring on the harness to the instructions in the FiTech manual. If I remember correctly, it's only one or two wires that have to be moved. Its really simple.

2. Remove the old distributor, making note of where the rotor is pointing.

3. Install the pro billet distributor with locked rotor in the same place. Try to line up with where the old distributor was as close as you can.

4. On the FItech controller, go into the menu IGNITION, and change from "2 WIRE VR+COIL" to "VR COIL."

5. The engine should start. On my engine it took 20 seconds to fire off the very first time I ran ignition control. I don't know why. It never took that long again after the first time. I chalked it up as a fluke.

6. Put a timing light on the engine, and set the base distributor timing, just like you would with a carb'd engine. I'm running 10 degrees base, but everyone's got their own preferences.

7. Go into the FItech menu, under ignition setup (I think), and program in the base timing to match whatever you set the distributor to. I.E., 10 degrees base timing at the damper, then input 10 degrees into the computer.

8. Here's where the phasable rotor comes in, and why it's so important. You'll need a spare distributor cap to do this. Rather than try to explain it, I'll post a video link here.

https://youtu.be/aWMlNwGW0tM

Basically, if you don't phase the rotor, it will be firing at the very corner of the rotor button, and will destroy caps and rotors in short order, and probably cause it to run funny.

9. You can also tune total advance timing in the handheld controller. Just match it to however your old distributor was set up for a baseline.

That should be everything. Im going off memory for everything there.

I have no experience with the Firecore pro billet distributor, I don't know if they offer a phasable rotor or not. But the phasable rotor is a MUST. No way around it. I am going to speculate that if your rotor isn't locked and you don't have a phasable rotor, then the rotor button isn't in the right place when it sends the spark. Do you have fire out of the coil?

I can also report, I've put around 1500 miles on my FiTech running timing control, and it has been flawless. The engine runs even better with the computer controlling the timing. Advance is silky smooth, I can pull or increase timing by pressing a button, and it works just as advertised. Not to mention, with no separate ECU or vacuum advance pod, the engine bay is much less cluttered now.

I'll be running my car this weekend at the Summit Racing Motorama autocross in Atlanta if anyone local wants to see the system in person.

The only thing that hurt was paying the credit card bill for the new distributor.

I hope this helps.

Yea, I just talked to Fitech. I'm getting like 150 back to zero RPM signal. They are saying the magnetic pickup in the dist could be weak and not a strong(Think of a strong magnet) enough signal to trigger the Fitech system for a solid RPM signal. He said to try the reluctor gap at .010-.030 and if it doesnt work then the magnet isnt strong enough for the system to get a good enough reading. I've already emailed Firefighter(Ron) about this.

Going to adjust the reluctor gap and try again, if I cant get a strong crank RPM signal than I guess I'll have my Firecore up for sale.

Looking at the MSD dist, you can see the reluctor posts are way wider when crossing the pickup, so allows more time for a signal to be created.

Thanks for the step by step.

No problem. There's also an MSD knockoff that runs half the price of the MSD (but still will allow using the MSD phasable rotor) if you want to save some money. Here's a link from Johnny at Pace Performance, who was very helpful to me with setting up timing control. I've linked this before in this thread, but I'll bump it again because the distributor info is pertinent here.

http://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/fitech-efi-question-and-answer.27076/

Just spent a good 2 hours with the Firecore trying to make it run. After adjusting the reluctor gap I was getting a good signal to the computer. I did get spark and a quick blip of running and then nothing. Tried over and over again with different dist timing and still nothing.

Ordered an MSD 8546 and 84211 rotor. I don't think the Firecore can work with the way the reluctor and rotor are affixed to each other.

Well that is terrible news.  I have a brand new Firecore distributor that I had planned to mate with FiTech.   Thanks for posting your experience to save others from pulling their hair out.   :yesnod:    :2thumbs:

Quote from: garner7555 on April 18, 2017, 05:50:12 AM
Well that is terrible news.  I have a brand new Firecore distributor that I had planned to mate with FiTech.   Thanks for posting your experience to save others from pulling their hair out.   :yesnod:    :2thumbs:

But you have the tall race distributor don't you? I think those work.

Mine is the billet HEI capped Firecore, no vacuum advance. It technically is a 2 wire magnetic pickup dist which Fitech says will work. I WAS getting fire and a signal to the computer. It just wouldn't get up and start running. For all I know it could even be the dwell line form the mSD box itself, I dont have any wire laying around to bypass the MSD box, so that could even be the issue.

MSD will be here tomorrow and I'm going to start my timing from scratch. Meaning re set everything up. I'll post back once I have some results.

Decided to give Johnny at Pace Performance a call today. He was able to answer my couple questions and confirm that the Firecore Dist will not work with Fitech, not a clean enough signal to allow the computer to do it's job.

I'll have more updates Friday, wont have time tonight or tomorrow to play with the install. New parts showed up today though.  :2thumbs:

Anyone want a Firecore dist? I actually have 2 now, 1 has the guts torn out of it and would only be good for a signal input for something.

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18010292_10154237011552084_8810011108771423964_n.jpg?oh=81e8825e98fe055b993d20553b7f944a&oe=59797D54)

That's great news.

:cheers:

Quick Update.

Another 2 hours playing with this system. MSD dist is installed and every single step in order taken to make it run. Does the same thing the Firecore dist did. Get's signal to fire, fires, engine make about 1 revolution with fire and then nothing. If I hold the starter engaged the engine will begin to run but does not stay running. I have to believe now that the Firecore WILL WORK with the reluctor air gap setup correctly. I'm also convinced I have a hardware issue with the Fitech.

Looking back when we first installed it a year ago, we had it running with Firecore and the timing control working. After an hour or so, go to start the car and sometimes it would run and sometimes it would not run, and then eventually it just stopped trying altogether. So tried everything again and nothing has changed. I'll see what Fitech has to say about this, I know my order was backordered at the time and wondering if they rushed the orders and hardware quality went down? Luckily they are 45 mins from me. I'll put the car on a flatbed if they dont believe me and they can figure this out on their own!

Have you tried giving it more startup and initial run fuel in the hand-held controller? How do you have the IGN 1 and IGN 2 ignition switch circuits wired?

Forgive me if you already stated that, don't want to search 11 pages.

Quote from: John_Kunkel on April 22, 2017, 04:17:56 PM

Have you tried giving it more startup and initial run fuel in the hand-held controller? How do you have the IGN 1 and IGN 2 ignition switch circuits wired?

Forgive me if you already stated that, don't want to search 11 pages.

I was just about to ask this too.

Well if it ran on fuel only for a year, and ran before with ignition timing working(for about an hour). Wouldn't that mean the wiring is correct?

It does the same thing wither I bypass the MSD and drive the coil's negative post or use the MSD's dwell to drive the coil.

I dont know if I understand the ign1 and 2 part. I have the constant wired to the starter relay lug on the firewall. Are you talking about cranking and then running power? That might make sense that it kinda runs when starter is engaged and when it goes into constant power it just dies. The hand held never dies though, if that makes a difference.

Hmm

Quote from: JR on April 22, 2017, 08:28:45 PM

Quote from: John_Kunkel on April 22, 2017, 04:17:56 PM

Have you tried giving it more startup and initial run fuel in the hand-held controller? How do you have the IGN 1 and IGN 2 ignition switch circuits wired?

Forgive me if you already stated that, don't want to search 11 pages.

I was just about to ask this too.

Yep, you need 12v in both the engine start & engine run positions of the ignition circuit. Check for 12V at the power input of your box/controller.....with the key in the forward/run position.  :scope:

Years ago I had an odd situation that was very similar and it turned out to be the internal wiring in the MSD Box. It would fire but once you let the key off it would just stall. In that case I checked the engine run key position and I did indeed have 12V so this was a real head scratcher.  :scratchchin: At that point I suspected an internal (box) wiring issue so I tried reversing the pickup wires and low and behold she fired right up !  :2thumbs:

Electrical gremlins can be a pain in the azz to hunt down !  :P

Upon further research I discovered the GM and Chrysler use different pickup wiring in their distributors. If a box is wired correctly for a GM distributor it will not work properly with a Chrysler distributor and vice versa. Most aftermarket stuff is universal and primarily GM oriented so if the FI box is generic it's quite possible that the pickup input wiring is backwards for a Chrysler application. In some cases the engine will still run with the pickup wires reversed but it won't perform well. These are questions that should be asked of the FI tech support, inmo.  :yesnod:


Ron

Just went and double checked. Main 12v power is off the starter relay lug, white wire for "key" is the same source that the MSD 6al gets for it's keyed wire. So it's getting 12v in the run position and also during cranking. Which the MSD has to have as well. I can change that wire and move it to where I used to have the tach wired for key on/starting, so I'm not stacking wires on top of wires.

I tried messing with the fuel settings. I still think this is a hardware problem. I mean if it worked before then why not now?

Quote from: 68CoronetRT on April 23, 2017, 09:49:13 AM
Just went and double checked. Main 12v power is off the starter relay lug, white wire for "key" is the same source that the MSD 6al gets for it's keyed wire. So it's getting 12v in the run position and also during cranking. Which the MSD has to have as well. I can change that wire and move it to where I used to have the tach wired for key on/starting, so I'm not stacking wires on top of wires.

I tried messing with the fuel settings. I still think this is a hardware problem. I mean if it worked before then why not now?

Im sorry if i missed this, but have you verified that this wire is hot during start AND run? Both the red and the white wires have to be hot during both. If you havent modified the Chrysler wiring, then it will cause problems just like this.

I would have someone slowly turn the ignition key to start, and back to run, while you hold a test light to this white wire. It should stay hot until you turn the switch back off. If it flickers between start and run, it will cause the engine to start, and run as long as the switch is in "start", and die when the switch goes back to "run".

Quick Update. I did check for voltage and all is good there.

Talked with Bryce this morning up at Fitech. They have had ALOT of problems with low voltage during cranking and low RPM signal during cranking in the past year since I've bought mine with many many other customers. He says that my 150-250 RPM signal is way too low so they have an updated firmware that attacks this problem. It came out Oct 16' and my firmware is dated as Dec 15'!. The latest update address the filters that allow the engine to run under a lower RPM signal situation.

Going to try this tonight and I'll report back. That means the Firecore Dist will work!

Another side note is that the computer is ground through the intake manifold and people on a Bronco forum were saying that just adding a ground wire from a mounting stud to a good engine/chassis ground fixed alot of problems with ignition control and the handheld dieing randomly. The wiring harness DOES NOT have an independent ground wire to the computer. Kinda lame.

How do you go about updating the firmware?

Quote from: John_Kunkel on April 24, 2017, 02:20:18 PM

How do you go about updating the firmware?

You call them and ask for it.  :2thumbs:

Not trying to be a smart ass!  :angel:

They email it to you and then you do a few things on your desktop with the handheld. It takes like 5-10 mins. I can post the steps if you want.

Sounds like they added features with this update to help with filters and stuff. Cant hurt to keep things up to date.

Quote from: JR on April 24, 2017, 11:27:51 AMI would have someone slowly turn the ignition key to start, and back to run, while you hold a test light to this white wire. It should stay hot until you turn the switch back off. If it flickers between start and run, it will cause the engine to start, and run as long as the switch is in "start", and die when the switch goes back to "run".

Before I started my Fitech install, I grabbed an old switch and hooked up an ohmmeter to test where the break was between run and start.  (And there was a break)  It would be interesting to know, of allllllll the various vehicles this system has been installed on (chevy, ford, amc, mopar, etc), whether their switches have a break or whether there is an overlap of start and run.  I decided for now, that I'd just put a little switch into the old choke cable bracket and hit it with the key in run.  Haven't had starting issues yet.  But there is a rather ugly switch.  But you could hide it.  Seems like he may have found his issue, so only posting this for others that come along and question the issue with the break between start and run and haven't put an upgraded ignition box and eliminated the ballast.

Played with it some more tonight. Same thing. Fire and then wont get up and go. Was watching the battery voltage gauge and it's dipping down to like 9volts under cranking. This could very well be why it wont start running.

Calling Bryce in the AM again. See what happens.

Kind of thinking the white wire might be the problem. I can try hooking that straight to battery power for testing purposes right? Its tapped off the MSD switched power which maybe it's drawing too much voltage? hmm

So you have the 6al box and msd distributor currently installed correct? If so I don't think the white wire from the ignition box should be hooked to anything. Heavy red to battery, heavy black to ground, small orange to + coil, small black to -coil, red to power in start/run position, and grey to tach if used, violet and green to dizzy. I think the white wire being hooked up is acting as a kill switch by being grounded in the run position.

Just to clarify, I was referring to the white wire in the FiTech harness that is tied to the ignition switch.

Right. White wire which is Fitechs switched power is stacked on top of the MSDs 6al switched power. In fuel only everything is happy and runs great. Switch the wires around for ignition control and it acts like the white wire for Fitech is getting power while cranking but nothing when returning back to run position, car fires, release the key and it dies. Seems like low voltage. going to try moving the switched power and if that doesn't work then wiring it to a switch directly to the battery.

Ive got my money on a glitch in the wiring somewhere, but Im also curious.

If your voltage is dipping down to 9v during cranking, have you tried jumping another battery to yours during starting? Just to rule low voltage out?

If my battery runs low, the efi wont fire.

Good idea! My battery was low at this time too :slap:. Like 12.2 volts. So I let it charge over night and it's at 12.8 now. Going to try again today and see what happens with more battery voltage. Also a good idea about additional battery. Maybe I'll hook my other car up and "jump" it to see if it is a voltage dropping problem.

I'll report back this afternoon!

Quote from: BLK 68 R/T on April 24, 2017, 11:20:45 PM
So you have the 6al box and msd distributor currently installed correct? If so I don't think the white wire from the ignition box should be hooked to anything. Heavy red to battery, heavy black to ground, small orange to + coil, small black to -coil, red to power in start/run position, and grey to tach if used, violet and green to dizzy. I think the white wire being hooked up is acting as a kill switch by being grounded in the run position.

Well I hoped maybe I was onto something with this white wire, but guess not. Good luck and hope you can get it running soon  :cheers:

Ok, talked with Bryce again. White wire cant be below 10v during cranking, it will fire but not stay running because it thinks its shutting down due to lack of voltage. I have a feeling the MSD wire and Fitechs wire are pulling the voltage down too far for the Fitech's computer to start going.

Gonna wire it to the wiper motor wire which I know is 12v at cranking and key on. And with the battery now charged up hopefully it'll run!

Quote from: igozumn on April 24, 2017, 03:55:37 PM

Quote from: JR on April 24, 2017, 11:27:51 AMI would have someone slowly turn the ignition key to start, and back to run, while you hold a test light to this white wire. It should stay hot until you turn the switch back off. If it flickers between start and run, it will cause the engine to start, and run as long as the switch is in "start", and die when the switch goes back to "run".

Before I started my Fitech install, I grabbed an old switch and hooked up an ohmmeter to test where the break was between run and start.  (And there was a break)  It would be interesting to know, of allllllll the various vehicles this system has been installed on (chevy, ford, amc, mopar, etc), whether their switches have a break or whether there is an overlap of start and run.  I decided for now, that I'd just put a little switch into the old choke cable bracket and hit it with the key in run.  Haven't had starting issues yet.  But there is a rather ugly switch.  But you could hide it.  Seems like he may have found his issue, so only posting this for others that come along and question the issue with the break between start and run and haven't put an upgraded ignition box and eliminated the ballast.

Thinking about this post you bring in a good idea! Wire a fused switch to the battery directly and connect the 'White" start/run wire to it. Its kind of like a kill switch and at the same time you command when it see's full voltage. Then your not relying on the ignition switch and the break points.

Might try that next after today, if the problem is still there.

Welp, double checked the white wire which conveniently is wired to my line lock inside the car.... haha. It has 12.8v at key on and 10.1-10.2 during hard cranking, RPM signal is a solid 140-145.

Next is to check the dwell line to the MSD box and make sure the Square Waves are actually sending pulse's. Need the wife to crank while I check that. So doing that later on tonight.

After that, Fitech techs will be officially "stumped" and I'll be sending it in for evaluation.  :brickwall:

Update!

No pulse signal from Fitech computer to MSD box. Going to check before and after the WEATHER pack once the wife gets home. I could only check the post weather pack wire for now. This could be it!  :lol:

I know everyone is just at the edge of their seats! haha. Also recording my thoughts here so I can review later if I need to.

And to check this, all you do is hook up a test light to the coil black wire and as you crank the light should light up and then go dim. FYI

Quote from: 68CoronetRT on April 25, 2017, 08:42:31 PM
Update!

No pulse signal from Fitech computer to MSD box. Going to check before and after the WEATHER pack once the wife gets home. I could only check the post weather pack wire for now. This could be it!  :lol:

I know everyone is just at the edge of their seats! haha. Also recording my thoughts here so I can review later if I need to.

And to check this, all you do is hook up a test light to the coil black wire and as you crank the light should light up and then go dim. FYI

Oh there's a few waiting on the results, who haven't commented...... EFI is on my to do list as well.

Mine is in the box, waiting patiently for the fat kid to finish working overtime to get to it. :brickwall:

Ok. So no pulse from the black "Coil" wire from Fitech computer to dwell or negative coil post(How ever you have it wired). Calling Fitech in an hour or so to see what they say. I also checked before and after the weather pack connection just to double check that.

Just to recap.

Fitech fired on timing control with the Firecore Dist.
After an hour or so it straight stopped working
Checked for 10v under a hard crank at the "White" wire. It was 10.2
Checked for resting voltage with key on. 12.8v
Used a test light to see if the computer is sending a square wave pulse to MSD box and got nothing.

I think that's pretty much it for now.

Ok. Called Fitech and after much resistance they finally offered to take a look at it. But I had to show proof of purchase. So I call Summit to get the invoice electronically and they offer to replace the unit! So I need to ship it back to them, and they will send a refund at full pop.

So now I'm kind of leaning towards the Holley kit since at the time I bought the Fitech, the Holley kit was not released yet. It's 100$ more, but you get Holley's support.  :shruggy:

Man, that's a bummer.

Keep us posted with updates. I'm totally out of ideas.

I'm pretty bummed about leaving Fitech. But they really need to get more help in the tech support department. When I started asking questions that seemed to be over their heads they got all huffy with me and just started saying they've never seen my problem before and something is wrong with my wiring. But I was doing exactly what they asked and it passed every test except the one that proved the computer is broken.

So luckily Summit will be taking my return under warrenty for a full refund and I'm either going Megasquirt or the Holley TB setup.

For Fuel only I'd buy again. But unfortunitly their tech support has burned my bridge so I dunno.

I too have looked at Holley. Keep us posted

Luke

Being up here in Canada, I was thinking of going the Holley direction, in hopes of better tech support.

Ordered the Holley kit, returned the MSD dist, and ordered the Holley Dual Sync dist that runs a Hall Effect trigger.

I'll post results hopefully by end of next week.

That's a real bummer to see the FItech didn't work out, but I'm interested to see how the Holley works out.

It will be interesting to see a comparison.

Started wiring the Holley kit last night and the Dual Sync dist is catching the corner of my head. Not a big deal, just need a die grinder and shave the head a little.

And figured out I need a relayed 12v for the switched power. Funny how Fitech post about all my issues just yesterday on Facebook.

Would the relay have fixed you fitech issue?

Negative. I was getting a fire and die symptom. There would be no fire if the computer and MSD did not have 12v.

The problem was the computer was not sending it's pulses to the MSD box(dwell). Fitech has seen this 2 other times. So the MSD would fire and then instead of continuing to shoot the signal over to the coil it would just turn off(lack of signal from ECU).

The test which I already mentioned in this thread was to use a test light and under cranking see if the light comes and goes(AKA the pulses to the MSD box). I was getting no light at all. Dead unit. Fitech just sat there and balked at my findings. So I said screw it and went the other route.

Quote from: 68CoronetRT on May 03, 2017, 04:25:55 PM
Fitech just sat there and balked at my findings. So I said screw it and went the other route.

Funny, they basically said the same thing to me six months ago and refused to take a look at it. Even offered to pay labor and shipping and they still wouldn't take it in to test. I would have just bought another Fitech unit but their customer service ruined it for me. Ended up going with the Holley Terminator Stealth unit. Just need to get off my butt and get back to working on it. 

It's a bummer to see their customer service sucks now.

I called them with some questions right after the units first became available, and they were helpful and receptive to me.

I can only assume they've grown faster than they were anticipating, and likely don't have enough personnel to fill orders and answer the phone.

Not that that's any excuse for rude service, but it's my guess as to what's going on.

There's no telling how popular FItech must be now. Just look at the page views of this thread compared to any other thread here. Twenty thousand plus views. I'd bet that most of them are from non members researching the product who found our thread on Google.

It would be neat to see the analytics of this thread to see the number of unique/new visitors vs. members here.

Quote from: JR on May 04, 2017, 01:49:47 PM
It's a bummer to see their customer service sucks now.

I called them with some questions right after the units first became available, and they were helpful and receptive to me.

I can only assume they've grown faster than they were anticipating, and likely don't have enough personnel to fill orders and answer the phone.

Not that that's any excuse for rude service, but it's my guess as to what's going on.

There's no telling how popular FItech must be now. Just look at the page views of this thread compared to any other thread here. Twenty thousand plus views. I'd bet that most of them are from non members researching the product who found our thread on Google.

It would be neat to see the analytics of this thread to see the number of unique/new visitors vs. members here.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about the traffic this thread is seeing now. Its like me reading through 56 pages on the Chevelle forum to come to the conclusion that the Command Center was not properly designed and saved me a huge hassle! Which lead me to the Tanks Inc. setup which has worked out very well!

Quote from: 68CoronetRT on May 03, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
Started wiring the Holley kit last night and the Dual Sync dist is catching the corner of my head. Not a big deal, just need a die grinder and shave the head a little.

And figured out I need a relayed 12v for the switched power. Funny how Fitech post about all my issues just yesterday on Facebook.

thanks for all the info . how much do you think you have to grind the head? how about the valve cover? i am doing the holley hp port injection Rich from FASTMAN EFI told me it is easier to grind the base of the distr
thank you

Quote from: komninon on May 04, 2017, 07:30:37 PM

Quote from: 68CoronetRT on May 03, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
Started wiring the Holley kit last night and the Dual Sync dist is catching the corner of my head. Not a big deal, just need a die grinder and shave the head a little.

And figured out I need a relayed 12v for the switched power. Funny how Fitech post about all my issues just yesterday on Facebook.

thanks for all the info . how much do you think you have to grind the head? how about the valve cover? i am doing the holley hp port injection Rich from FASTMAN EFI told me it is easier to grind the base of the distr
thank you

It wasn't much. It was just barely catching the corner of the dist. Took 5 mins to fix it. But they are also aluminum heads. Cleared the valve cover just fine.

Random update for Fitech quality control.

Went and looked at a 67 Chevelle with a brand new Fitech unit yesterday. Fuel Command Center high pressure pump is DOA. Ran great for the 1st 20 miles and then it died. We'll see what Fitech says!

That's a bummer. I'm not sold on the idea of the fuel command center. Two fuel pumps to potentially fail, plus assorted plumbing complexity. I'd recommend to anyone to go with a replacement fuel tank with a submerged pump anyday.

Did you get the 12volts during cranking issue sorted on your Holley?

The weather has been really crappy here in "Sunny San Diego", so it's on hold for a couple days. Hoping to have it all wired up this week.

I had noticed some time back, that it seemed like my tank was getting warm.  Didn't know what was causing it.  Don't believe it to be exhaust, as it's the same setup as before the swap.  I need to double check though, just to make sure the tank isn't touching.  Had it out Saturday for the 3rd or 4th time since putting electric fans on (need to start thread on that).  First time it'd been around 80 degrees since putting them on.  Stopped at a store after running around for half an hour and thought I had a tire going flat, since I heard hissing as I was walking away.  Got close enough to tell it was coming from the gas cap.  Popped it open and "whoooooosh" all this vapor came out.  Guess I need to look into my vent and find out what's going on.  Tank is getting warm/hot-ish though. 

Anybody else notice/check their tank temp? 

I researched into that a while back.

Mine got too hot originally and killed my first fuel pump.

In my particular case, I rerouted the fuel line to be as far away from the exhaust underhood as possible, added ceramic coated headers to replace the original bare cast iron manifolds, blocked off the intake crossover,  removed the underhood access service plates, and added a cool carb spacer, and added a 3/8th fuel return line. (In the near future, I am also planning on adding fuel line heat shields, a fresh air intake, and water methanol injection to further aid reliability.)

Basically the fuel is heated to begin with by going through the high pressure fuel pump, through the hot engine bay, and then it is heated within the throttle body and returned to the tank. It takes about an hour for the effect to be noticable.

My personal theory is our cars don't have good thermal management underhood. I tested this alot last summer, and discovered that on a 90 degree day, most of my modern vehicles see underhood ambient temps in the 125-150 degree range. Before I went with my ceramic coated headers, my Charger was seeing 140-180 degrees underhood, and as high as 220 when sitting in downtown traffic at long red lights.

That was just cooking the fuel as it was recirculating.

After I made the above modifications, the problem seems to have disappeared. It seems to be happy now, and I can drive it all day without any symptoms of fuel heating up.

Where is your fuel line routed igozumm? The exhaust may not have interfered with your old carb, but now the high pressure fuel pump by nature also heats the fuel as it circulates it, so there is an additional source of heat there. And youre recirculating the fuel through the system much faster than your old carburetor's fuel pump did, so youre exposing the fuel in the tank to the high underhood temps much quicker.

That was my experience.

Quote from: igozumn on May 08, 2017, 12:53:11 PM
Tank is getting warm/hot-ish though. 

Anybody else notice/check their tank temp? 

The tank on my Cuda was getting warm, with the hissing and I could hear the pump getting really loud.  I called tanksinc.com and they said the tank needs two vent lines in addition to a vented gas cap.

Stock location.  New 3/8 supply and using the original 5/16 supply as the return.  Stock manifolds.  I do have hose running from the throttle body forward around the distributor, down between the alternator and block over to the hard lines.  I'll get under it and look to see if something is closer than it should be.  I also wonder if my vent system, which isn't even shade-tree good, should be re-done.  I did it dirty to get the thing running, and had plans to clean it up.  But haven't really had the pressure build up until recently.  I'll check the vent to make sure it's not plugged or something. 

JR, interesting that you bring up poor underhood thermal management.  Since putting dual electric fans (Ford Contour), my interior is noticeably warmer.  Enough so, that I keep checking to make sure the heater isn't on, LOL.  I'm sure the fans constantly blowing/pulling all that hot air and throwing it back at the firewall is the cause.  80 degrees the other day, and I had to open the wing vent.  Or maybe I'm hitting man-o-paws.   :scratchchin:  I still need a final 1/2 hour idle test, to see if it cools as well as I hope.  But even on low speed, God bless Fitech and the 2 fan controls, you can really feel the air moving.

Had an '88 Shelby Daytona Turbo I a/t before finally getting an '87 Shelby Daytona TII.  When I bought the '87, it had a melted carpet in the back left, right above the muffler.  Weird, I thought.  Happened to be looking through a consumer reports book and it had mentioned something about that issue on Daytonas.  Dodge put an aluminum heat shield on later years.  But it was hot enough to burn your hand.  Looked under it and no heat shield.  Next trip to the pick-n-pull, I grabbed 2.  Cut one down to fit inside/on top/under the other and spaced it with nuts.  Double heat shield.  Bolted it in and the trunk floor was cool to the touch on a 95 degree day.  

With the way your fuel line is routed igozumm, I think you're cooking the fuel in the line.

I used to have mine routed like yours, but after chasing the hot fuel issue, I routed them straight back to the firewall and down the right rear corner of the inner fender to get them away from the heat.

Those bare cast iron manifolds radiate a TON of heat. And like i said earlier, it only takes about an hour for your high pressure fuel pump to circulate all the fuel through the lines and heat it up.

I would reroute those fuel lines ASAP, get them off the hot engine.

But there's soooo much stuuuuuuff over there.  I guess I could pull the motor and figure something out, LOL.  Did you just run/move your braided (I searched out one of your posts and found a progress pic) over and down?  Over the valve cover, around the back of the head, or down the bellhousing?

Quote from: igozumn on May 09, 2017, 04:46:50 PM
But there's soooo much stuuuuuuff over there.  I guess I could pull the motor and figure something out, LOL.  Did you just run/move your braided (I searched out one of your posts and found a progress pic) over and down?  Over the valve cover, around the back of the head, or down the bellhousing?

Here's how I did it Igozumn. (Im currently in the middle of reflooring my house, but I had time to run out and take this quick, crappy pic.)

I cut the factory fuel line at the firewall, and ran the hose up the firewall in the corner of the engine bay. I cut maybe two feet off the original hard line. (Excuse the dirty engine bay, it is constantly being tweaked and changed.)(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u364/jrh1983/IMG_20170509_182429122_zpsu10xiu7o.jpg)

Routing the fuel line this way, along with the other changes I made cured my hot fuel tank issue. It's no longer a problem. This seems to be the farthest the fuel line can get away from the engine heat. (Although I just realized you may have A/C and heat hooked up, there still should be a way around there.)

It alone may or may not be enough to cure your hot fuel issue. I upgrade to ceramic headers at the same time I rerouted the fuel line so I never ran it this way with the HP manifolds.

I'd HIGHLY recommend ceramic coating your manifolds, or buying headers already done. I spent alot of time recently chasing heat issues in the engine bay, and I found the bare factory manifolds to be a huge source of it. Or at the minimum, reinstall the OE heat shields over the top of the manifolds.

I have a new set of ceramic coated Hooker Super Comps that have been sitting in the box for about 17 years.   :icon_smile_big:

I also routed the fuel line up the firewall, added a Cool Carb spacer, a electric fuel pump, and a return line.  All of that has helped with vapor lock issues.

You guys don't wrap the lines with some sort of heat shield? My lines are ran similar to JR's and I've got heat shielding from the torsion bar cross member to the throttle body and also some near the the exhaust over the rear axle.   

I'm definitely adding heat shields White and Red, I just haven't gotten to it yet.

What type did you use? I was thinking about making an aluminum plate to cover them in the rear of the car by the exhaust.

I've got DEI Fire shield covers on all the sections of braided line and has been working great. I also built a little shield for the fuel filter since it sits near the header collector. Its just made out of sheet metal and I lined the inside with dynamat to block some of the heat.

Sniper Install Update.

Took my time and was able to wire most of the kit in 1 night. Then got busy and had to wait 3 days to finish it. Anyway, other than me not plugging in 1 weather pack which controlled the timing, the car fired right up with full timing control after 4 revolutions. Got up to temp and target AFR is being hit no problem.

The sound on the exhaust is so much more "crisp". I'm guessing due to the fact that the timing is firing exactly where it should be. The throttle linkage is almost too light even with double return springs. The Fitech was like you had to mash the pedal with some body weight to get it to go 100%, and even then the throttle was very jerky. This throttle is so smooth.

I ended up doing the relay for my switched power which worked great! It's seeing whatever the battery see's during cranking so I get no issues with start up. I also ended up with the Holley Dual Sync dist, which I had to grind the Stealth heads a little to make work. It's super tight but so far no misfires due to wires grounding out.

I LOVE the fact that you can set Coolant temps to adjust the rpm idle for warm up. Once they come out with the laptop dongle that will be cool to hook up a laptop and do all of that in real time. The touch screen is kinda hard to make adjustments when it comes to the graphs.

Going for the first drive probably tomorrow after work. I need to tidy up the wiring and zip tie off the o2 and move the fuel pressure regulator etc...

Quote from: 68CoronetRT on May 14, 2017, 05:37:56 PM
Sniper Install Update.

Took my time and was able to wire most of the kit in 1 night. Then got busy and had to wait 3 days to finish it. Anyway, other than me not plugging in 1 weather pack which controlled the timing, the car fired right up with full timing control after 4 revolutions. Got up to temp and target AFR is being hit no problem.

The sound on the exhaust is so much more "crisp". I'm guessing due to the fact that the timing is firing exactly where it should be. The throttle linkage is almost too light even with double return springs. The Fitech was like you had to mash the pedal with some body weight to get it to go 100%, and even then the throttle was very jerky. This throttle is so smooth.

I ended up doing the relay for my switched power which worked great! It's seeing whatever the battery see's during cranking so I get no issues with start up. I also ended up with the Holley Dual Sync dist, which I had to grind the Stealth heads a little to make work. It's super tight but so far no misfires due to wires grounding out.

I LOVE the fact that you can set Coolant temps to adjust the rpm idle for warm up. Once they come out with the laptop dongle that will be cool to hook up a laptop and do all of that in real time. The touch screen is kinda hard to make adjustments when it comes to the graphs.

Going for the first drive probably tomorrow after work. I need to tidy up the wiring and zip tie off the o2 and move the fuel pressure regulator etc...

Thanks for the update, think I'm leaning this way.

Happy to report the 1st cruise was great success! Did 2 laps "around the block" just for safe measure! haha And I may or may not have shown a Prius what BBM is all about....  :coolgleamA:

Car runs more smoothly, throttle is way more snappy(and pedal feel is 100% better), fires right up at hot start(and cold start). I think the timing had alot to do with all this too. So far for 200$ cheaper I would go Holley in a heart beat! I did spend some coin on their dual sync dizzy but it is SO worth it.

Fitech has great PR but lacks in the tech department. They tried to get the product out before Holley, but in the end I have a feeling they will not be able to compete with a juggernaut like Holley. I mean the weather packs supplied by Holley are legit Delphi packs. Just holding Fitechs "weather" pack and Holleys Delphi's you can feel the difference in quality.

I cant wait for the laptop dongle to come out, do live tuning from a laptop!

If you don't mind, can you list what parts you bought to completely swap to efi. I'm trying to understand what all needs to be purchased to swap.

Luke

To go from a carb to EFI it depends on what route you want to go from the supply stand point. I'll list what I had to buy.

Tanks Inc. tank/walbro 255 fuel pump and their sending unit.
50 feet of hard line( I went aluminum). -6 or 3/8ths for feed and return
2 VW style fuel filters in line.
Stock fuel pump block off plate
Misc things like: heat sleeve, mounts for fuel line, screws, bolts, random wire, solder, heat shrink etc..
An fittings! I cant recall every single fitting but you have to make a "road map" from tank to TBI unit. It's a small fortune but so so worth it.
25 feet of soft hose (Used for junctions such as off the tank or TBI side)
Pay an exhaust shop to weld in an o2 bung.
I wired in a relay for switched power, but you may not have to do this.

That's about it I think, now if you want to do timing control I suggest the Holley Dual Sync dist. It's a hall effect sensor inside a dist housing. You can use an MSD pro billet as well, but if you've followed this thread I tried it and it never worked for me.

Your other option is to buy Fitech's "Fuel Command Center". This literally hooks up to your feed line and is a surge tank to feed the high pressure EFI system. No plumbing from the tank to the engine bay, just re route 2 fuel lines and it uses your stock fuel pump for supply. Personally I've seen 2 of these systems be DOA and Ive read ALOT about problems with the way the vent is designed causing complete vapor lock.

So you can do it the kinda "unbolt the carb, switch two lines, hook up 8 wires" and be on your way. OR you can do it the proper way and re do the fuel system with a legit return system. Keeps the fuel cooler too.

After everything I've done and gone through I'd buy the Holley Sniper kit and if you want to keep your stock fuel system, then just buy Fitechs "FCC". And if you want to do timing control, then spend the money on the Dual Sync dist.

This swap is literally a Saturday project if you have all the stuff to wire/mount/adapt on hand.

Oh and Holley ALSO sells a complete swap kit for an extra 300$. That's literally everything you need to go from carb to EFI.

They call it the "master install" kit.


Page 4
http://documents.holley.com/199r11031r.pdf

Thanks for taking the time to post all this. I've been reading about so many swaps but I was unclear as to what all needs to be purchased for the swap.

Luke

Older thread but a couple guys could really help me out on my install. I've had the unit for a year and just got the tanksinc tank a month or two ago.  But i'm still dragging my feet after hearing all the issues since last summer.  here's what I have:
1968 Super Bee
470" stroker 4 speed
Fitech Meanstreet EFI
Tanksinc tank and suggested fuel pump.  Had the FCC but didn't want to hack up engine bay to make it fit.
Stockish style electronic ignition.  Rev-n-nator, regular FireCore distributor
Fuel regulator (so I can keep back up carb in trunk if the EFI craps out and I can adjust fuel pressure)

I have to install the tank, fuel regulator, return line, and the whole Fitech set up still.
Questions/concerns.
1) Using Fitech as fuel only.  Do I need to shield some of the wiring?  Which ones?
2) Will my ignition set up work with the fitech do I need to change stuff?  I'm thinking I need to buy the RTR Firecore distributor. But how can I have a rev limited if I wouldn't need the Rev-n-nator box. Will I be able to shield the wires (which ones?) and distributor just to try it out before I purchase a new set up?
If I should get rid of my ignition set up, should I go with this: http://paceperformance.com/i-23840633-tsp-jm7719bk-mopar-bb-b-engine-383-400-cid-ready-to-run-pro-series-electronic-distributor-black-cap.html
3)Will I need to mess with ignition getting full power when cranking over? Read a few things about system not getting full power at all times.  

Thanks, I'm honestly debating to just sell the set up to avoid any possible headache.  I took the car out tonight and it ran just fine with the carb, so I think I'm almost crazy to try something else with some many questions around it.  I'm pretty good with modifying stuff, I swapped, motor trans and rearend by myself and have done a lot of things to my cars over the years. But this one just has me scared.  I don't want to be stuck with a car that won't be as reliable as it is right now.

Fuel only will be the easiest and simplest way to get it up and running. I had alot of problems with timing control but that was an ECU problem. Car ran great on fuel only for over a year.

1. I never shielded any wires.
2. You can leave your ignition 100% alone, it'll work fine.
3. Cranking power needs to be 10.2v minimum. My Fitech fired up every time with the brown/blue wires tied together that used to go to the ballast resistor. That is a crank and running power source once they are tied into each other. Later, I added a relay for direct battery voltage(fused). Just to take the load off the old wiring.

I'd also suggest running the fuel pump on a relay for 100% voltage at all times. In tank pumps do not like voltage change. If you look into the Holley Sniper kit, they say in the instructions that having voltage change to "slow the pump down" is not good and is not even an option in their kit. Fitech uses that feature to help tune other problems out.

I would absolutely do a feed/return system. Helps keep the fuel cooler. The Fitech has a built in regulator that is ment for high pressure. Your carb style regulator will not be able to hold back enough pressure in the event you had to use your new in tank high pressure pump AND your old carb setup. They go hand in hand.

Hope this info helps!

^Excellent advice. I agree 100%.

I'm over a year and a half on my setup. No reliability concerns at all.

Well thanks a ton!  I feel way more confident in it now.  I bought this regulator because I figured it would be able to handle a carb or EFI with the change of a spring.  https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/universal-bypass-regulator/

Now I just need to lay it all out and see what exactly I'll need to get it installed (fittings, fuel lines, etc). Your info helps a ton.  Before I was like this  :brickwall: trying to figure stuff out after reading online all the issues.  Time to use up all the gas I have left and drop the tank.  Hopefully I get the Tanksinc tank to seal properly.

That regulator looks like it would serve its purpose then! I didn't know that existed. :2thumbs:

PM me or post up if you have any other questions. I spent alot of time on the phone with Fitech... haha

Quote from: 68killerbee on June 07, 2017, 12:56:21 PM
Well thanks a ton!  I feel way more confident in it now.  I bought this regulator because I figured it would be able to handle a carb or EFI with the change of a spring.  https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/universal-bypass-regulator/

Now I just need to lay it all out and see what exactly I'll need to get it installed (fittings, fuel lines, etc). Your info helps a ton.  Before I was like this  :brickwall: trying to figure stuff out after reading online all the issues.  Time to use up all the gas I have left and drop the tank.  Hopefully I get the Tanksinc tank to seal properly.

Yeah. If you leave the timing control for a later date, or not bother, it really simplifies things.....

Finally getting around to this. These an fittings are such a pain but I'm buying a few more tomorrow and will be done.  Hardlines to fittings To braided to fittings to blahblahblah. I was happy with the old fashioned way of clamps and hoses. But anyway
I'm running fuel only. 
I have a stock replacement style distributor and still have my ballast resistor.  What's the best route to wiring the white wire.  The red wire, what connection do you use for the battery.  The pump and tach are easy.  I've done a lot of stuff to my car over the years but maybe not the best way(exhaust cutouts, line locks etc). I want this done once and done right.  I'm hoping to try it out tomorrow or Friday. Gotta get it running good for the mopar Nats in a couple weeks.
Thanks in advance. I'm off to bed.

Had a question about fittings but I figured it out

Finally I got all hooked up. I use a gastank from Tanksinc. with an internal fuelpump.
Yesterday I started the engine the first time with the FI Tech Go EFI 4.
Starting was a little hard. The idle is way to low and it smokes like it is running too rich.
I turned in the screw on the throttle body as discribed. I tried several times. one time it ran smoothly with no smoke.
The throttle response was very quick. But then idle went down to 450 rpm and it started to smoke again.

Now I don´t know what to do.
The engine is a 505 cui.

I guess I have to do some calibration.
Below you can see pics of the controller. There are so many parameters you can change that I don´t know about.
Maybe that is the reason.

Also I have attached the white cable (to ignition) to the ballast resistor as you can see in the first pic.  Is that okay?

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170830/jygcj6na.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net)

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170830/fm2zk5z5.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net)

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170830/4z3ivktr.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net)

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170830/75k79io9.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net)

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170830/7tsrmemp.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net)

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170830/77gukhjx.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net)

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170830/fumzitr5.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net)


Mario

Purely a guess but maybe the ECM is reading the crank sensor wrong. If you bring the idle up to 1000 rpm does it change the actual idle to 500 rpm?

The white wire needs 12v during cranking and key on. I suspect that's your problem right now. You'll need to wire a relay to give 12v to the white wire.

Quote from: TommyGun on August 31, 2017, 06:59:41 AM
The white wire needs 12v during cranking and key on. I suspect that's your problem right now. You'll need to wire a relay to give 12v to the white wire.

:iagree: The ballast resistor is there to reduce the voltage to the factory ignition. I'm surprised the Fitech actually works in "run".

Troy

I put the white wire to power, it works but drains the battery. What have others done? i'm going to have to put a switch or something between the source and the unit.

To wire in a relay so you have a constant key on 12v source get a standard iso relay.  Hook pin 85 to ground, pin 87 and pin 86 to the brown wire at the ignition switch, pin 87a to blue wire at ignition switch, and then pin 30 from the relay will be your 12v output.

Quote from: will on September 02, 2017, 02:00:12 PMWhat have others done? i'm going to have to put a switch or something between the source and the unit.

Mine is on a battery tender whenever it is not out of the garage.  Old motorcycle habit. 


With regards to the Fitech and 12v at all times vs starter circuit, I've mentioned this before.  I'm not saying it's an elegant solution, but easy????  I put a simple push switch, like the washer switch, and wired it inline with the starter circuit wire.  Turn the key to ignition, push the button and let'er rip.  You could hide the switch too, for a little security.

The need for constant 12V subject was covered early in this thread, check pages 2-3.

A simple diode is the most practical method.

Fused relay for my Sniper kit :icon_smile_tongue:. Works great! I do carry a spare though. Just in case.

Hi can som one give me some tip??Hi i have a 69 charger 440 with a1200 unit that i have a procharger F1 on. The unit is perfect on idle and cruise but when i was on the dyno i starting to lean out over 4750rpm (498hp at The hubs) afr was 13 and going up and lean so i shut IT off! Want to reach 6500rpm at 11,9 afr) I have a tankinc fuel tank w/ gpa 6 pump  so i got a steady 60 psi fuel pressure at idle and wot!!  The blower is phusing 10 psi at 4750rpm and i have a 2 stage water/meth . I have Try to adujst afr Target under boost om The controller but no change!! Do you have any tip or what i can do?

It sounds like your starting to run out of fuel pump. The boosted AFR settings are for N2o. I'd imaging you would just tune your normal settings, not the boosted settings. If it's going lean and your target AFR setting is good, then you need more GPA at the fuel pump.

Hi i have just measure The fuel pressure at wot and i have 60 psi and The pump flow 346 lph at 60 psi so i should be good to feed 800hp! And boost afr target is for nos and boost saus fitech. I have around 10 psi boost from The supercharger at 5000rpm!

wrong or defective map sensor ?

If i run out of fuel ? Will i see this on the hand controller? I have just measure with gauge ! And The pump is a 400 lph walbro from tankinc.

How can i check The Map sensor ? I Need guide for dummies  :-\

Quote from: raymond73 on October 02, 2017, 01:02:10 PM
If i run out of fuel ? Will i see this on the hand controller? I have just measure with gauge ! And The pump is a 400 lph walbro from tankinc.

I don't think you would be able to see that on the hand held controller. You should be able to see that the MAP sensor is functioning or not on the hand held though.

How do you know you are getting 10 psi of boost? Is the FiTech controlling the fuel pump with pulse width modulation?

Hi i have check The Map sensor! And its fine. I have boost gauge and IT is a boost sensor in The fitech hand held controller and They read The same. But i have mount a separate fuel pressure regulator and now i can read that i have 60 psi normal driving but fuel pump dont flow so many log that i need abow 5000rpm . So i need a Niger pump. I have now a walbro 400 lph and need a 500 or biger!
And i have fuel pump on relay w/ 13.9 volt running at The pump

An update on my fuel heating issue.   I had taken a short trip earlier this summer, maybe 15-20 minutes, when it was around 90 degrees.  Took my laser thermometer and when I got stopped, I checked some temps.  The intake runners (Street Dominator) were around 225, the front of the Fitech (on the logo) was 165-ish, and the manifold heat crossover at the head was 325!  Ordered the valley pan with the blocked crossover and 2 Cool Carb spacers.  One, was the big one that extended out front and back, the other was a standard gasket size spacer.  Ran across a cbrestorations video where he mentioned a drop base for the air cleaner that had about another inch of drop from Mancini, so I ordered that too.  I was comfortable with the hood clearance I had, and wanted to try and maintain that.  

Finally got around to installing everything.  The drop base barely cleared the fittings I had on the back side and even still, you have to have it rotated in just the right spot to not lay on them.  I had to raise the throttle cable bracket about 3/4" to get the cable angle corrected.  It wasn't perfect before.  The Street Dominator sets a little higher than stock and the Fitech might even have the  throttle shafts a smidge higher, not sure.  But raising everything up another 3/8" was going to be too much for the cable coming out of the mount.   Sliced the mount lengthwise, welded in a 3/4" wide (tall) piece of bar stock and the cable has a nice run to the throttle linkage now.  Pedal is a little easier to actuate.  Yay!  Also replaced the 25 year old plug wires.

Got it running and took it on some short trips.  The exhaust tone is different.  Little more raspy sounding.  Also have a bit of a stumble, more like flat spot coming off of idle, much like the Holley 750 that was on it.  Ran the same test with the laser thermometer taking the same route as before.  Intake runners still around 225, front of Fitech around 135, and the manifold heat crossover at the head was 225 or cooler.  So, much improved.  In all the driving I've done since, it hasn't hissed at the cap yet.  If the throttle body only gets to around 135, then I'm happy with that.  Some of the hotter places around the country are seeing 110, 115+ ambient temps, so they'd be seeing almost the same temps as me in the best of circumstances.  I'm sure the swap to headers would help even more with the interior.  I had the thermometer the other night with me, as I sat in my buddy's driveway, thinking, "Man it is hot in here."  So I gunned the carpet on the floor by the firewall: 115 degrees, gunned the door panels, the dash, etc. and confirmed that it is indeed warm in the interior.  Have to pull the inspection/access covers in the engine bay and retest.  Might have to plan a cylinder head/header upgrade sooner than I'd wanted.  

Been doing a little tuning on the flat spot and it's better, but not as good as before.  But shouldn't take much more to get it right again.  It is weird the exhaust note changed like it did.

Under hood heat is definitely a real issue with big blocks man. I've spent a TON of time working on that.

Ceramic coating the headers was a HUGE improvement on mine, and probably the single largest drop in temps. I also pulled my access plates out of the inner fenders and left them off. (I could write a book with all the stuff I've found to lower underhood temps.)

Did you reset your the learning feature on the handheld? I'm guessing the drop base air cleaner draws less air through than your old one, so the engine is likely running rich from the original learning curve. Resetting it and letting the computer relearn the new breather will likely clear it up.

Ive noticed a big change in air/fuel readings from playing around with different air filters. It seems the drop base ones are the most restrictive (from my experience.)

Wouldn't surprise me if the drop base affected it.  I gave a long hard look at everything before I put it on, to try and guesstimate what might happen with the changes.  Didn't think having a 3/8" increase in manifold height would have affected it the way it's behaving.  Have to look at the paperwork to recall what I tweaked, but it was only 2 settings if I recall, and it seemed to help.  I may reset it and see. 

It's interesting how much the breather can effect performance.

I have a 14 inch drop base filter with the tallest element that would clear the hood. Just to see what would happen, I drove it for a week with no filter at all (my engine is coming out in the near future for freshening up so I didn't care), then after the ECU had learned to breathe with no restriction at all, I put the drop base filter on.

AFR dropped to 10.8 under steady cruise. It went WAY rich. I'm guessing that means the drop base filter is extremely restrictive.

I could reset the learn for the drop base, but I'd still lose the power from drawing in less air.

Not much of a choice though on a 440 powered second gen. It seems you either deal with it, or cut a hole in the hood. I've seen a few guys use ram air boxes with air ducted in from the core support or fenderwells. I'm not sure how restrictive they are.

Ive accepted fate and am going to do a glass hood with hemi scoop, and add a standard base air filter.

Or put the filter lid on. Dyno numbers show that as the biggest importance when a drop base is in play, but also works well on any style.

You mean an air cleaner lid that has a filter in it instead of being entirely solid ?

Yes. Like this.

That is great but without rocker covers, your oil is going to get everywhere.

Those are see through.

They are transparent aluminum valve covers. Top notch, space age technology.

Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on August 31, 2018, 06:03:26 AM
They are transparent aluminum valve covers. Top notch, space age technology.

Yeah, Mr Scott gave the formula to a glass company in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home in 1986. Glad they're finally producing it!