B5 Bird on E-bay

[hemi68charger]

Everything is for sale for the right price, right?
Including this bird...
Unfortunately the "right" price is "wrong" for me...

Got anything to trade, that might work too to get you a winged car.........

[472 R/T SE]

Geno,
The ONLY reason I could think of a dealership service department restamping the VIN on a replacement/warranty block would be that of the request by the customer for tracking purposes in case of theft... back then, there was no such thing as "number's matching" in the sense we use today in this hobby. I would think it would be 100% towards tracking down the motor in the event the vehicle was stolen......

Yeah, I understand all that.  I don't recall exactly where such instructions are given, but supposedly service replacement blocks were to be embossed with the car's VIN.  To this point the stories I've heard from dealership service dept. workers (mostly 2nd-hand, but still stories nonetheless) all say that they never took the time to do this.  Of course, the couple of stories I've heard represent a very small sampling of actual warranty replacements back then.

Nonetheless, I highly doubt that a dealership would have ever installed a "date correct" engine unless it failed VERY early in the car's life.  It could have happened, of course, but it doesn't seem likely.  Otherwise, Chrysler would have sent out a block (or shortblock engine assembly) dated somewhere close to when the claim was submitted. 

My point is, I find it a little hard to believe that it was the dealer that happened to stamp the VIN, AND that it was stamped on a "date correct" engine block.  Maybe I'm just too much of a conspiracy theorist, I dunno.

Maybe someone went through the trouble to find a date coded block so they could stamp it & call it #'s matching not realizing it was the wrong font. 

How else can a date code correct motor with it's VIN not be considered #'s matching?  When the font's wrong or stamped incorrectly.  Now all of a sudden the dealer stamped it. 

[WINGIN IT]

Everything is for sale for the right price, right?
Including this bird...
Unfortunately the "right" price is "wrong" for me...

Got anything to trade, that might work too to get you a winged car.........

Believe me I've tried, every bird that comes up that's the first question  I ask .
Will keep pluggin' away... maybe some day...

[WINGIN IT]

Maybe someone went through the trouble to find a date coded block so they could stamp it & call it #'s matching not realizing it was the wrong font. 

How else can a date code correct motor with it's VIN not be considered #'s matching?  When the font's wrong or stamped incorrectly.  Now all of a sudden the dealer stamped it. 
[/quote]

Sounds plausible for sure.
Even more so if it is confirmed it's the bird that Willie's Daytona posted, which he states did not have any drivetrain...

[hemi68charger]

Everything is for sale for the right price, right?
Including this bird...
Unfortunately the "right" price is "wrong" for me...

Got anything to trade, that might work too to get you a winged car.........

Believe me I've tried, every bird that comes up that's the first question  I ask .
Will keep pluggin' away... maybe some day...

Well, if you know my story, then you know..... Never give up........

[hemigeno]

Maybe someone went through the trouble to find a date coded block so they could stamp it & call it #'s matching not realizing it was the wrong font.  

How else can a date code correct motor with it's VIN not be considered #'s matching?  When the font's wrong or stamped incorrectly.  Now all of a sudden the dealer stamped it.  

Yup, that's exactly how things look to me.  If (as may or may not be the case) the car did not have a drivetrain when previously sold, the whole dealer-stamped-VIN story holds even less water in my eyes than it did before.

As the research and knowledge in the hobby has increased over the years, some owners have undoubtedly discovered that their car's prior owner(s) weren't as honest as they wanted everyone to believe at the time.  VIN restamping does not happen in a vacuum - there is an intent to deceive almost every time.  Even when it's done with the "best of intentions", it can still bite a subsequent owner who doesn't get the real story when a prior owner comes down with a bad case of selective amnesia and/or conjures up a cover story like this.  In any event, it's fraud.

[nascarxx29]

looking over the ebay ad which mentions this particular car is Nascar Race Program Serial #1750.Translates to RM23UOA179768 at bottom of page in my #1920 list booklet.Like I suspected originally by its description.It is this car.As I originally thought.Was also aware Zachary had many other cars.But this one is confirmed ebay ad car. Know what your buying and its past origins whenever possible

I was reminded of this B5 car following this post owned by Zachary .Same car??
Attached post pictures and its history

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,69012.0.html

Nascar Race Program Serial #1750.

[WINGIN IT]

Thanks, I saw the link to that thread earlier in this thread, and wasn't sure it was the same car by the way the initial post read.  I PMd that member to see if he had some insight or history to add.

If it is indeed the same car as previously posted, and now has a non-matching drive-train and repro tag and no build sheet, along with the condition of the car ( quarters replaced, tac added ), how much do you think it effects the overall value of the car?

[Aero426]

It is easy to pick apart a car from the comfort of your living room.   Obviously the NOM engine is an issue.   Whether it occurred in 1970 or five years ago doesn't really matter.   It's still NOM.   The lack of the original tag or build sheet hurts some too.   You will find lots of Birds have had less than perfect histories.   On the other hand, it's still a real Bird in an attractive color and a 4-speed, which is NICE.  It also has a known history which is worth something.   It's also not represented as a loaded up rare option car.  So the lack of a sheet is kind of minimal except for bemoaning the fact it is not present.  So it doesn't take a hit like a car that just popped up from nowhere.   The change of quarter(s) doesn't bother me.   The addition of a tach is a non-issue.    What's it worth?    The market is tough right now.   It's still a buyers market.   I'd sense the value somewhere in the 80's.    But given what has been spent on it, that may not be enough money for the owner to let it go, if you know what I mean.  

[nascarxx29]

[nascarxx29]

The above article mentioned a Carl Crow restored that B5 superbird.In April 2000 a superbird popped up about 1 hour from me it was B5 I took my gold challenger to go see as seen in picture .Superbird owner at that time was a well known mopar/car body shop owner Ron Mule.Ron mentioned he got it from a Carl Crow.Also member 4 speed wing was trying to get this car off Ron .But I found him a orange car

[Aero426]

When Carl owned the car, it was a very nice looking machine.  I remember seeing it at Talladega in 1999.   

[WINGIN IT]

Thanks for the additional history Nascar.
Is there more to that article you posted?

It wasn't my intent to pick the car apart from my living room or otherwise ( I did go see the car in person previously).  Agreed, it's a very nice looking car.
Just trying to get opinions on a selling price based on all the current available information.

[nascarxx29]

No thats all of the article .And at this time all related info I came up with .

[WINGIN IT]

Ok thanks , appreciate all you've provided 

[WINGIN IT]

" ....  I'd sense the value somewhere in the 80's.    But given what has been spent on it, that may not be enough money for the owner to let it go, if you know what I mean.  "

Aero, given the current owner purchased the car  in 2000, after it was restored, he shouldn't have much else into it other than the purchase price and maintenance ( unless the motor had to be rebuilt or something).  

I'm sure someone here has info on what birds were going for around that time.