Electrical weak points for MOPAR?

[b5blue]

  Having just installed a new Y.O. (M&H) dash/front light harness, doing a fleet modification with 8ga wire to ALT gauge + from alternator output and installing new tunes I find the radio cuts out on me. Crap....quick checking the gauges are going dead with the radio so I slap my hand on the column connectors and boom everything jumps back to life.
  Farting around with these connectors has me realizing that's really quite a bit of power flowing through what are just thin stamped connectors inside the white plastic housings. From a fat 12ga wire to another through a tiny bit of 24ga metal.....how many times have I seen that red 12ga wire section baked brown on an old Mopar! (If not melted.)
  I'd installed a new column ignition switch on my 70 Charger a few years ago so it's still in good shape. The new M&H plastic connector there is not fitting as tightly "in the socket" as the old one so I think that's my issue. I tested with a backup switch I keep in stock and got the same intermittent power glitch.
  I've decided that group of connectors has to go, at least the 3 big red, black and blue main loads need upgrade for long term durability. (Power in/Accessory/Ignition respectively.) 
  Now I'm on the hunt for HOW to modify, I may just use butt connectors crimped and soldered, I hate cutting the new harness but I hate failure even more.   
  Anyone got ideas for a connector rated for like 50amp? Can ya think of any other possible weak/trouble points on our old Mopars? The ALT gauge is a new OER brand, they say rated for 60 amps unlike the stock one's 40 amps. The Denso Alt. has been running nicely for several years. Boy I'm glad I didn't take this thing out for a spin before installing the radio, it could have died on the road! 

[b5blue]

  I think I'm on to something, these connectors will work for 10 and 12 gauge stranded copper, are fully rated high enough amps/volts and make a serviceable insulated connection.
http://www.kinginnovation.com/category-pages/products/alumiconn.php
  I recalled using them to repair some aluminum wiring awhile back and checked the specs. 
 

[Nacho-RT74]

when I made the parallel wiring on my car was imposible find a terminal able to be crimped into the 8 gauge wire I used able to hold any car load. So I had to run the wires straight to amm studs withot terminals

BUT UNTILL NOW found this:

will  cut the ends... one large to go straight to ammeter keeping plug on engine bay, and the other end short to splice it to the wires on engine bay... and will look more less stock:

( will post here when I find it lol, have to leave )

[b5blue]

  For 8ga I used a pass through bulkhead grommet. A rubber bushing inside a plastic housing is compressed to seal to the wire. Held into the bulkhead 5/8 hole by a plastic nut it can be undone if ever needed and the wire removed. This eliminates any connector for the parallel, the ends with terminal lugs are solid tube type, crimped then soldered, cleaned to remove flux and sealed with liquid tape to bond the insulator to the lug.  The fuse holder has set screws and the wire ends are tinned with solder before compressed. Everything is entirely coated in Caig Lab's "Sealant" spray for the entire car now, like a light oil it prevents oxidation forming.
  Much of what I'm applying is USAF installation training and Marine safe practices training explained to me by boating inspector/appraisers. It's overkill for many but my car is a daily driver with the intent being go anywhere, anytime more than a restoration project.
  I have had Nacho's "consideration" topic bookmarked for years as it's very similar to what I had figured doing before seeing it, we think alike.
   http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0.html 

[Pete in NH]

Hi Neal,

I would not use those King Innovation connectors. They are basically insulation piercing/displacement types and look like aluminum types at that. They will not give you very much contact connection to the wire and may actually be worse than the thin metal connectors that are there now.

Military type connectors handle higher currents reliably all the time but, I can't think off hand of commercial types that do it well. I think you idea of directly splicing the wires together might be the most reliable option. I don't like butt connectors at all if only crimped. I usually do high current connections by tinning each wire with solder and forming a little hook on each wire end. Then I interlock the hooks and crimp them closed with pliers, solder together and cover with shrink tubing. I've never had one of these connections fail or give any problems.

I think your right, these connectors were used for assembly line convenience, electrically they were not a great idea.

[E5 Charger]

I wouldn't mix the aluminum with copper. We have a problem out here with homes built in the 60's. The copper and aluminum connected together cause oxidation and also contract and expand differently and become loose. I'm sure it would be the same in auto wiring.

[Nacho-RT74]

thanks Neil!! forgot I posted the quick disconect harness on my own thread LOL ( edited the post now )



it's 24", so will use a long section, maybe 20-22" to reach the ammeter studs from engine bay ( should be enough ), and the shorter end to splice in there the batt and alaternator. Then the plug will be around bulkhead area and will be able now to tape the extra ammeter wire to the engine harness, since I couldn't make it untill now if needed to remove the harness... will look cleaner now, and I like to keep the stock versatility.

will work also on keep just one fuse link, instead two I have around. Have to figure it out yet. remmember I'm not removing existant wires, just adding.

That's just because I don't want to open any extra hole on firewall to one of those firewall juntion double studs ( which are great for those don't care about that. I'm using an existant grommet on my firewall to run the paralel throught. 74s got the AC harness on firewall instead on bulkhead, so I'm using that same grommet to run the extra wires.

[Nacho-RT74]

some other waek spots on on Mopars around the years ( of course, mostly 70 and lates ):

Red and Blue meltdown on Ignition switch harness

Main positive into the light switch ( coming from main splice on alternator/ammeter wire )

AC-Heater blower lever switch

all these have being fixed on my car using relays... 6 in total

-low beams
-high beams
-Heater blower speed
-Low blower speed
-mid blower speed
-High blower speed


Blue wire terminal on ign switch harness I think was fixed by itself just getting a better charging rate, since the regulator and alt field won't suck anymore like before when reving up

all of these taking the batt power from ammeter stud... YES AMMETER STUD, to keep them away from enviroment under the dash, and not vsiible.

Just need to figure out the BRAKES fuse clamp ( its also some other sources fuse ), which overheat. I can see my fuse box melted on that cavity... mostly sure is just about get a better quality/conection on fuse holder. I don't want to add a relay just for that.

[b5blue]

I wouldn't mix the aluminum with copper. We have a problem out here with homes built in the 60's. The copper and aluminum connected together cause oxidation and also contract and expand differently and become loose. I'm sure it would be the same in auto wiring.

Right and if you read the link's info, these are made just for that problem. (I don't use aluminum wire in the car.) Any "AL" rated device (switch or outlet) can be used with copper also, it's the copper only that should not be used with aluminum wire. 
  My "mobile home" was made with aluminum wire, I've had to go through the entire system and undo P.O. mistakes using only AL rated stuff. I found the Alumiconn Connectors while researching code approved repairs.
  I just finished my "hack" and all is running perfectly on the 70 Charger. After cutting off the column connectors I took a close look at what was going on. The individual connection contacts are NOT tight fitting, you can hold one and easily spin the other side with the two plugs mated. Total crap in my book, they are weak by mass of metal and loose by fitment? That is a "ticket to failure". Now I'm actually glad this happened and was caught/fixed before even driving the car. (I'm still shaking my head, I dropped big bucks on all this only to uncover built in problems?)

[b5blue]

Hi Neal,

I would not use those King Innovation connectors. They are basically insulation piercing/displacement types and look like aluminum types at that. They will not give you very much contact connection to the wire and may actually be worse than the thin metal connectors that are there now.

Military type connectors handle higher currents reliably all the time but, I can't think off hand of commercial types that do it well. I think you idea of directly splicing the wires together might be the most reliable option. I don't like butt connectors at all if only crimped. I usually do high current connections by tinning each wire with solder and forming a little hook on each wire end. Then I interlock the hooks and crimp them closed with pliers, solder together and cover with shrink tubing. I've never had one of these connections fail or give any problems.

I think your right, these connectors were used for assembly line convenience, electrically they were not a great idea.

Hi Pete thanks for chiming in! The Alumiconn is like the buss bar for "Neutral" in a home breaker panel, only inclosed in plastic. You strip the insulator off the wire and insert it Then tighten the set screw, darn near 100% contact for stranded copper. The device is all made of coated alloy not aluminum!
  Here is a pic of a 3 wire one and a shot of my repair

[b5blue]

Here is the culprit, the wire conductor gauge is much larger for the ignition switch side? No matter, when clipped together you can spin ether side wire without the other side moving...no grip.    I tested my extra switch and my original harness with these cut offs all had the same crappy results. This all stems from putting the switch in the column, you must feed the long thin connector sideways through a small slot at the bottom of the fat part of the steering column. (Do likewise for the blue turn signal connector.)

[b5blue]

some other waek spots on on Mopars around the years ( of course, mostly 70 and lates ):

Red and Blue meltdown on Ignition switch harness

Main positive into the light switch ( coming from main splice on alternator/ammeter wire )

AC-Heater blower lever switch

all these have being fixed on my car using relays... 6 in total

-low beams
-high beams
-Heater blower speed
-Low blower speed
-mid blower speed
-High blower speed


Blue wire terminal on ign switch harness I think was fixed by itself just getting a better charging rate, since the regulator and alt field won't suck anymore like before when reving up

all of these taking the batt power from ammeter stud... YES AMMETER STUD, to keep them away from enviroment under the dash, and not vsiible.

Just need to figure out the BRAKES fuse clamp ( its also some other sources fuse ), which overheat. I can see my fuse box melted on that cavity... mostly sure is just about get a better quality/conection on fuse holder. I don't want to add a relay just for that.

Thank you Nacho.  With the Firecore RTR dist. system I have full 12V coil so using 3 wire Alumiconn could bond brown (start 12V) and blue with tracer (run 12V) to each other from the switch side and blue with tracer to harness side. This eliminated brown from circuit, "Q" slot on bulkhead connector, later I'll be "Hacking" the new engine harness and may reuse the slot.
  I'll be using my neat laser pointed temp gun to get readings from all the trouble spots you've pointed out, I have a box of 10 40amp rated relays and connectors for when I add a fuse/distribution block to my 8ga wire parallel circuit.   

[Nacho-RT74]

Having the quick disconect harness in hands 2' long I'm a little bit affraid won't be enough to reach the engine bay from ammeter studs...

( I'm thinking anyway use 10 gauge instead 8 gauge... 10 gauge is quite enough SPECIALLY keeping the stock one working... and 10 gauge is available in 48" )

[E5 Charger]

I wouldn't mix the aluminum with copper. We have a problem out here with homes built in the 60's. The copper and aluminum connected together cause oxidation and also contract and expand differently and become loose. I'm sure it would be the same in auto wiring.

Right and if you read the link's info, these are made just for that problem. (I don't use aluminum wire in the car.) Any "AL" rated device (switch or outlet) can be used with copper also, it's the copper only that should not be used with aluminum wire. 
  My "mobile home" was made with aluminum wire, I've had to go through the entire system and undo P.O. mistakes using only AL rated stuff. I found the Alumiconn Connectors while researching code approved repairs.
  I just finished my "hack" and all is running perfectly on the 70 Charger. After cutting off the column connectors I took a close look at what was going on. The individual connection contacts are NOT tight fitting, you can hold one and easily spin the other side with the two plugs mated. Total crap in my book, they are weak by mass of metal and loose by fitment? That is a "ticket to failure". Now I'm actually glad this happened and was caught/fixed before even driving the car. (I'm still shaking my head, I dropped big bucks on all this only to uncover built in problems?)

Sorry, I didn't read the info. Looks like you are on to a great fix!

[b5blue]

I wouldn't mix the aluminum with copper. We have a problem out here with homes built in the 60's. The copper and aluminum connected together cause oxidation and also contract and expand differently and become loose. I'm sure it would be the same in auto wiring.

Right and if you read the link's info, these are made just for that problem. (I don't use aluminum wire in the car.) Any "AL" rated device (switch or outlet) can be used with copper also, it's the copper only that should not be used with aluminum wire. 
  My "mobile home" was made with aluminum wire, I've had to go through the entire system and undo P.O. mistakes using only AL rated stuff. I found the Alumiconn Connectors while researching code approved repairs.
  I just finished my "hack" and all is running perfectly on the 70 Charger. After cutting off the column connectors I took a close look at what was going on. The individual connection contacts are NOT tight fitting, you can hold one and easily spin the other side with the two plugs mated. Total crap in my book, they are weak by mass of metal and loose by fitment? That is a "ticket to failure". Now I'm actually glad this happened and was caught/fixed before even driving the car. (I'm still shaking my head, I dropped big bucks on all this only to uncover built in problems?)

Sorry, I didn't read the info. Looks like you are on to a great fix!

No worries!  Your correct to highlight aluminum would be a disaster with copper, especially stranded. Nacho, I found the perfect 8ga terminal ends on eBay, solid barrel with correct lug to gauge a quality pro grade HD part. (Stamped T10-5)
  I ordered 10 of the 2 hole Alumiconn, with shipping to FL came to 45.00 but I'll use them on my home anyway later.  Here are pics of T10-5:

[Nacho-RT74]

yeap I can find similar eyelet terminals down here... I even used some black silicone and shrinking tubes on them to just left unprotected the round area and isolated the rest ( wire provision on terminal ), the problem was try to find male/female terminals ( bullet or whatever ) for 10 and 8 wires, to be able to disconect the paralel on engine bay. Only solution found was those quick disconect one.

Now will cut one large end of the harness end to attach eyelet terminals straight to ammeter studs, leaving the plug on engine bay side, and a short end of hat harness to attach batt and alt wires.

Then will be able to tape the paralel wires to the engine harness and won't leave the alt wire hanging around on engine bay.

Just need to figure out how to get together the red ( batt ) wires ( parallel and stock ) to one fusible link AND still be able to unplug everything if needed.

Or simply keep living with two fuse links? Or forgett the stock red ( batt ) wire ?

I have time to figure it out and decide. my car is still at body job, and will take long to be finished yet

[b5blue]

Yes all I found were big battery charger type plugs, bulky and costly but 50amp rated. The exterior (engine bay) fused distribution block is the next part of the puzzle. It will feed the assorted relays and I have not found what to use? I want something that is well protected from splash and fumes.