lifter noise at first start up ( EDITING... and some other questions )

[Nacho-RT74]

what your read... well my engine ( and car ) is totally disassembled since long time ago waiting to be correctly decked, but when my car was running I allways got a lifter noise for couple of seconds at first start up in the morning. My valve train is:

2011 HiLift Johnson lifters
282HDP crower camshaft
PRW adjustable rockers
1106 hughes valve springs
HP melling oil pump.
8.5" Chromo moly ball/ball pushrods
20/50 oil ( Castrol )

thoughts ?

I'm toward to lifter bores worn

[cdr]

possible cheap oil filter without good anti drain back valve.

[A383Wing]

lifters are bleeding down after sitting.....either bad lifters, or possibly too much valve spring pressure, or both

[RECHRGD]

Happens to me after the car hasn't been run for a couple of days.  I just figured it was the lifters bleeding down a bit and didn't worry about it.  If I just crank the starter for A few seconds before giving it gas to start I don't get the noise....

[John_Kunkel]

How quickly does the oil pressure reading rise after startup?

[Nacho-RT74]

It was quite time ago, but around 3/4 or bit more of gauge at choke fast iddle and really quick.

Everything is(was) new

[Nacho-RT74]

possible cheap oil filter without good anti drain back valve.

actually can't recall which one... Pretty sure is Whiz

[Nacho-RT74]

lifters are bleeding down after sitting.....either bad lifters, or possibly too much valve spring pressure, or both

I thought on the springs, but... 120 lbs installed? I don't think that's too much. Single spring with dampener ( Huges 1106... specs says they are 150 or so but I got them used in Carlisle 2008 and measured when I was to install getting 120 lbs or so )

Lifters are making that since new

must to say I got initially 976 lifters from High lift Johnson, but when I installed they never got charged... run the engine around 10 minutes and allways were tapping, so toplineauto sent me 2011s ( Small Block ) and those worked nice EXCEPT at first start up as mentioned.

Maybe the camshaft lift was too high that the 976 oil groove was leaving the bore ? but I don't thing the Crower 282HDP lift is really high to get worried about that!

[Nacho-RT74]

Next question if the bore is worn what would you do ?

sleeve/bush the lifter bores to keep standard size lifters ?

overbore the lifter bores on block and get oversized lifters ?


I'm afraid of a bad bushing job locally ( as many of you know the machine shops here are a headache ) so toward to the overbore job. Aside that I think is better to keep on iron bore than bronze bushings which could be more prone to get worn faster. HOWEVER if I get a damaged lifter someday in the future, replacements won't be on the shelf at any shop will need to get allways from toplineauto for replacement

[Challenger340]

Next question if the bore is worn what would you do ?

sleeve/bush the lifter bores to keep standard size lifters ?

overbore the lifter bores on block and get oversized lifters ?


I'm afraid of a bad bushing job locally ( as many of you know the machine shops here are a headache ) so toward to the overbore job. Aside that I think is better to keep on iron bore than bronze bushings which could be more prone to get worn faster. HOWEVER if I get a damaged lifter someday in the future, replacements won't be on the shelf at any shop will need to get allways from toplineauto for replacement

Yeah, you were most probably getting some Lifter bleed-down after sitting Nacho ? Hence the Tic... Tic... Tic... on startup. The good news is that they shut up after starting/running.

If the Engine is apart now for Block milling ? Is that correct ?
and you are suspecting some Lifter Bore wear.... forget Bushing the Lifter Bores as it is very expensive, and I doubt you would find the capability at your local Machine Shops anyways ?
IMO, do this instead as the cheapest fix:
Upon re-assembly after Block Milling, you have to re-measure for correct Pushrod Length anyways ? (assuming NON-Adjustable Rocker Arms)
So this time, measure for a pushrod that provides .090" to .100" Lifter Preload.
That will only leave ~ .020" to .030" until the Lifter Plunger is bottomed(Solid), but also a very small space to bleed out and then HAMMER which is the 'Tic" you are hearing(not enough room to go TIC), and also refills with Oil immediately.
in essence...
All you are doing is taking away the clearance in the Lifter that is exposed by Lifter Bleed Down and goes TIC on startup.

Option 2:
If you have "Adjustable" Rocker Arms, you could just run the adjuster down to do the same as described above.
The CAUTION here,
and hence why I do NOT recommend this, is because as you run the Adjuster down, you expose more Adjuster Threads below the Rocker Arm itself, increasing the leverage on the adjuster itself, and start thinking of each root thread pitch exposed below the Rocker as a pre determined BREAK POINT !
This is why typically it is recommended to only have 1 to 1 1/2 MAX adjuster threads exposed below the rocker arm.
Running the Lifter Plunger down with the Adjuster will expose closer to 2 1/2 to 3 threads below the rocker arm.... NOT a good idea for longevity.

[Nacho-RT74]

yes, definitelly they are bleeding down overnight

yes engine will be correctly decked ( once again )... it seems we were able to find a machine shop with an automatic machine able to make that job on both decks by itself saving human mistakes, getting them cut to the lower deck point of both decks. It seems there is not just front/rear mistake but also intake/exhaust wrong cut. IT SEEMS I can get the pistons around 0.010 leaving the deck, which is not bad after all. Of course will shave heads intake face too and slight shave on intake itself to share geometry corrections and still able to use this pieces on any other block with minor touchs

adjustable rocker arms ( SS PRW rockers ). Pushrods were bougth 0.050 shorter than stock ones thinking on the adjustable rocker setup I was getting due the decking jobs.

Getting the adjuster bolt out of the rocker will expose the oiling hole for the pushrod tip

I will request for the lifters bores measuring and job to the machine shop, trying to get oversizes lifters and what they have to tell me about. It will take quite long since they will close the shop on december for christmass vacations and will return by first week of january. and there is a long waiting list to use this machine before me.

have also MRE rocker shaft shims to make corrections if needed.

[68CoronetRT]

Mine bleed down after sitting for a week or so. It takes 1-2 seconds for them to pump back up. So far I've had no issues with anything.

[Nacho-RT74]

yes, I don't have any issue running but have being hating that tapping noise on first start up day after day ( doesn't need a week to bleed down, overnight is enough )

and I don't think an installed 120 lbs valve spring is too much to make that thinking stock are around 90 lbs