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Author Topic: 1970 Coronet versus Superbird hood  (Read 948 times)
hemi68charger
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« on: November 14, 2017, 10:17:32 AM »

Hey gang...
I was able to locate and secure a donor '70 Coronet hood last Friday. My friend who's doing the work has separated the under structure to transplant it into my original Superbird hood. In the process, he noticed and now I do, the center brace that is missing on the Superbird hoods compared to the production Coronet/Superbee hoods. Funny how when you're restoring something in such detail, the small things become apparent.. Y'all may have known, but it is a 1st for me on this topic. So, I thought I'd share.....

1. Donor under structure
2. My original Superbird hood
3. Found Superbird hood image
4. Found Coronet hood image

Also, based on the visual of the Blue Superbird hood and mine, looks like the stampings weren't the same or they were modified at upon creation and hacked off differently..



* DSCN0424_nov14.JPG (180.5 KB, 623x468 - viewed 624 times.)

* DSCN0425_nov14.JPG (197.22 KB, 761x571 - viewed 455 times.)

* 00404_hLTXJ6SY2ZB_1200x900_nov14.jpg (60.28 KB, 675x900 - viewed 454 times.)

* 70image_jpeg_nov14.jpg (166.85 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 458 times.)
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Troy
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 10:23:58 AM »

I don't see any rust holes, why are you changing it.   shruggy
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 10:33:53 AM »

I don't see any rust holes, why are you changing it.   shruggy

Well, not in that area there isn't..  cheers  It is in the leading edge and rear corner areas on my original hood...


* DSCN0417_nov14.JPG (184.5 KB, 720x540 - viewed 447 times.)
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Troy
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 11:06:28 AM »

Thanks for sharing Troy!

I fancy myself a '70 Coronet and a SuperBird aficionado, and I was unaware of that. 

Wonder what the historical details are for the difference, does it look like it was cut out, or never there in the first place?
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 12:28:07 PM »

If your body man going to replace the entire under hood bracing or weld in the necessary pieces to the original hood structure?
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 12:47:21 PM »

If your body man going to replace the entire under hood bracing or weld in the necessary pieces to the original hood structure?


The 1st picture in the thread is the cleaned up-separated under structure of the donor hood, the complete structure. He will cut out the center brace in the exact same location as my original, it'll be like it was never there........  the outer skin of the donor hood I will save for a future Superbird hood or sell to help offset the cost of the donor hood. I have another '70 Coronet hood, but it needs some work too. The newer donor is in much better shape......
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Troy
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 08:33:07 PM »

anything to do with a power bulge versus non-performance flat hood?
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
hemi68charger
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 09:24:08 PM »

anything to do with a power bulge versus non-performance flat hood?

I believe the standard Superbee hood has the brace whereas the N96 Fresh Air hoods have it taken out.
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Troy
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birdsandbees
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 10:23:12 PM »

Not there on my '69 Ramcharger hood..
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6bblgt
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 02:24:56 AM »

learned something new  2thumbs

it looks to be hand trimmed/removed - wonder what the reason was as it does not look like it was a neccesary modification

this CA (N95) factory undercoated Superbird was "restored" in the '90s - I popped a couple hood pad clips & it's cut out also

wonder if the underhood bracing is the same on a Super Bee - R/T "bulge" & RAMCHARGER hoods, hand-cut or stamped if missing??  scratchchin


* d-c Superbird hood pad.jpg (193.32 KB, 1000x750 - viewed 380 times.)

* d-c Superbird hood pad II.jpg (258.8 KB, 1000x750 - viewed 381 times.)
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moparstuart
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2017, 09:51:33 AM »

anything to do with a power bulge versus non-performance flat hood?
looks like even the power Bulge version had the brace   


* power bulde 2.jpg (91.06 KB, 640x480 - viewed 344 times.)

* power buldge 1.jpg (100.73 KB, 640x480 - viewed 342 times.)
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 08:20:24 PM »

anything to do with a power bulge versus non-performance flat hood?
looks like even the power Bulge version had the brace  

the power bulge is the one i would expect to have the brace.

it's a coronet 440/500 that wouldn't need any reinforcement


i'm going to link this the the '70 coronet group on facebook and see what the gurus say
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 11:45:47 PM »

anything to do with a power bulge versus non-performance flat hood?
looks like even the power Bulge version had the brace  

the power bulge is the one i would expect to have the brace.

it's a coronet 440/500 that wouldn't need any reinforcement


i'm going to link this the the '70 coronet group on facebook and see what the gurus say



The stock hood off my 1970 Coronet 500 had the center brace.


* rsz_1rsz_043.jpg (100.24 KB, 729x486 - viewed 272 times.)
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 06:25:36 AM »

Anyone selling steel stamped extensions for the hood? Not sure if Gene is still selling.........
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Troy
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2017, 01:47:28 AM »

I have posted this a number of times before. No one has taken up the mantle to also look into this, especially the DSAC, so I have kind of given up on getting any help.

I am going to guess that the first 22 cars originally came with hoods that at least had the center brace, and those were reworked.

I am going to guess that the first 160 sets of "A" Pillars were at least cut poorly at the bottom.

It would be interesting to see the character lines on the first 31 hoods. Perhaps the add on piece was reworked, or the cuts to fit the underbracing were changed.

Perhaps the first 100 sets of valance panels had the front edge interfering with the nose cone, and a little vise grip or channel lock bending solved the problem.

I think the first 5 cars plus the BIW are the most interesting. I am guessing 1 was the White car used for publicity photos, 1 other one may have been the car Red car (With Black Decals!!!) on the cover of "Stock Car Racing". But again, no one seems interested.


The www.aerowarriors.com/new.html page has a lot of new found information on Superbird production.

The 10/21/69 minutes item #9 says there will be 5 pilot cars and 1 body in white at that time. The NASCAR 1920 serial # list (available from the Daytona Superbird auto club) shows 5 cars delivered 10/17, 10/24 and 10/29. All the later cars on the 1920 list come in larger groups. My thought is that the 5 cars could have been the pilot cars. Brennan Cook has just sorted the 1920 list on dodgecharger.com (aero cars). He has identified RM23?OA149855, the potential 5th car built in serial # to be possible. A thought would be that could have been the BIW car (I know BIW cars didn't have serial #'s) but it would have the modifications started.

The 10/30/69 meeting minutes. Item #3)a) says there was interference between the air cleaner and hood (question here why would this happen if the '70 Coronets already worked since the back of the Coronet hood was used for the Superbird?) First 22 parts to be reworked.

Item #3)f) A pillar moulding fit problems. First 160 sets to be reworked. (note: I have one of the first 130 cars plus a mid production car and 1 set of parts counter mouldings from 1977, 3 sets of mouldings. The 3 passenger sets are identical, the early driver one has differences)

Item 3)g) the first 31 hood character lines different those hoods to be used.

Items 3)a&b) first 100 valances to be used but need changes.

Item 7) 5 tools and gages missing (David Patik I believe called them fixtures) So on the early cars were some things hand drilled and fitted?

Item 2) first 500 cars had late show up of decals (wing, nose or quarter?) Where were these cars fitted with decals in a field? (from the memo it doesn't look like the dealers put them on)

11/13/69 minutes. 1)on schedule 2)Decals stop and go shipments-overtime 4)defects-especially scoops (again my thought is what do we see on early cars?).

11/13/69 Milestones Memo there was a proposed Belvedere Body in White to Creative proposed 9/10-actual 9/15. From the Nascar 1920 list the 1st. Superbird was received at Clairpointe 10/17. So these are probably not the same cars. Was the process to send a car to Creative before the pilot cars to fit things?

Same 11/13/69 Milestones Memo says the first production cars were shipped to Clairpointe 11/13. The NASCAR 1920 list shows car #6 shipped to Clairpointe 11/3. I believe this reinforces that the first 5 cars were pilot cars.


After reading this info I think it would be very interesting to look at the very early cars, especially 1-5,1-22,1-31,1-160 to see what was different from the later cars, and especially to have the early car owners look at their cars.
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billssuperbird
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2017, 06:35:35 AM »

my Superbird hood is all painted I would be scared to cut out that brace it to make it look like the original.
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2017, 07:47:15 AM »

my Superbird hood is all painted I would be scared to cut out that brace it to make it look like the original.

If you know it isn't the original, I would fret... Either way, wouldn't fret.... There are plenty of Daytonas out there with 1970 production Charger hoods...  2thumbs
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Troy
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'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2017, 07:49:19 AM »

I have posted this a number of times before. No one has taken up the mantle to also look into this, especially the DSAC, so I have kind of given up on getting any help.

...

Very nice addition.. Thanks for the insight.. I don't recall seeing this information before....  2thumbs
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Troy
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« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2017, 08:45:37 AM »

I have posted this a number of times before. No one has taken up the mantle to also look into this, especially the DSAC, so I have kind of given up on getting any help.

...

Very nice addition.. Thanks for the insight.. I don't recall seeing this information before....  2thumbs

Here is a link to ALL the Chrysler Racing Documents. 

http://aerowarriors.com/cda.html

Last updated in 2009, so it has been out there for some time.
Anyone interested in Wing cars, or Chrysler stock cars, should go through it.

The aerowarriors.com site is the best site in the world for this type of info.   2thumbs
Ken Noffsinger has done an outstanding job.   cheers 
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« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2017, 01:47:28 PM »

I would keep the extra brace. It's more rigid and stronger. Twocents
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2017, 02:44:55 PM »

I would keep the extra brace. It's more rigid and stronger. Twocents

That's cool. But I want to to be as correct to my car as possible... Plus, I don't plan on letting anyone sit on the hood....

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Troy
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'70 Plymouth Superbird, 440 4-speed 3.54 Dana
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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2017, 08:06:14 PM »

I would keep the extra brace. It's more rigid and stronger. Twocents

That's cool. But I want to to be as correct to my car as possible... Plus, I don't plan on letting anyone sit on the hood....



To me, correct as possible means fixing the hood with minimal Coronet donor parts added.   Twocents
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2017, 09:52:16 PM »

I would keep the extra brace. It's more rigid and stronger. Twocents

That's cool. But I want to to be as correct to my car as possible... Plus, I don't plan on letting anyone sit on the hood....



To me, correct as possible means fixing the hood with minimal Coronet donor parts added.   Twocents

I agree, but when you have rusted out parts, you have to do whatcha gotta do...... After the hood was separated, more corrosion was discovered on the top skin....

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Troy
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« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2017, 10:14:31 AM »

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,51140.0.html
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« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 01:12:15 PM »

The 10/30/69 meeting minutes. Item #3)a) says there was interference between the air cleaner and hood (question here why would this happen if the '70 Coronets already worked since the back of the Coronet hood was used for the Superbird?)

Okay, so why would there have been an interference between air cleaner and center hood brace?
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