60 Dart Seneca 2dr.

[lloyd3]

Luck is always a component when dealing with a 60-year old car. Our luck sort-of ran out yesterday while on our way to get an emissions test (before the temporary tags expire here on the 21st). It has been dying at inopportune times of late and I'd figured that maybe the fuel filter that I had installed between the tank and the fuel pump was the culprit. We pulled off the cover, changed out said filter (which was full of black nasty gunk), shoveled the show out of the way and then chiseled-off the ice dam in front of it, playing musical cars first to get a clear shot down the steep and now-often icy driveway (winter sucks!). We then loaded up the dog and boy and coats and gloves and headed off.  Of course, it was starting to snow again. About 5-miles from the house it died yet again, this time in 6-lanes of combat traffic. I coached my son in the fine art of negotiating a safe way to the curb (with as few obscenities as possible). It would run after a few minutes of cranking, but only at idle so... I took the wheel and crippled it up the road to a church parking lot where we did a post mortem.  After a few minutes of listening to him speculate rather wildly about what the problem might be (you've got to learn about all this stuff somewhere, I suppose) while I blankly stared at the very simple fuel-line and carburetor set-up, it suddenly all became clear to me....fuel pump!  Called his mom to come rescue us and then began the search for the necessary part which I'll now get to install tomorrow (in a parking lot, in the snow and in 20 degree weather) because he's in school.  A Honda Civic would have been far-easier.

[b5blue]

I'd install a small fuel cell in the trunk till you can drop that old tank for cleaning. 

[lloyd3]

Well, I may need to consider that. I put a new NAPA fuel pump in it this morning (in a very cold and snow covered parking lot) and fired it up. Seemed to run fine again. Took it up to the closest emissions station and put up with that crowd for a bit (bureaucracy seems to be miserable no matter were you encounter it anymore). They even went over it with a penlight under the hood (looking for a fluid leak of some type so they could avoid testing it, like they did on the first attempt?) but in the end they tested it and .....it passed. With flying colors actually.  

Notice the sign about "friendly" service....



I drove it back to where I'd fixed it earlier and exchanged it for my truck. I then drove my truck down to the county seat to get some plates for it. I presented my emissions sheet, the insurance card and the registration and asked for the standard Colorado plates (my son wants to drive it too-much for collectors plates) and the lady calmly told me that I couldn't buy plates for my son's car. That only he could make the purchase. I was dumbfounded. I loudly told her that he was 16-years old and in school where he should be and as his father, I was was the authority in his life until he turned 18. Nope, she says, it's "a security issue" and he needs to fill out a form allowing me to do it for him.  I then let her know that Colorado used to be a pretty nice place to live, but because of her county employer and local government in general, they were doing a very good job of turning Colorado into California. We now have useless pot-heads everywhere (with all the resulting crime & social tragedies), miserable traffic, soaring property inflation, and the same petty little administrative state that all the rest of the liberal utopias have. God help me, but I think that these folks need to hear some of this. They expect sheep and act accordingly. If you object they seem quite surprised by that. I didn't use any obscenities but I let them know that I resented driving down there (40 minutes in heavy traffic) and wasting my time (& a half tank of gas).  She said that they were "proud" of their service and efficiency. I told them that I thought their service was abysmal, ridiculously expensive, and unnecessarily complex.  I left and headed back home. Picked up my son and went to get his car, which then decided to fight us all the way back home by stalling every 5 minutes. It's still a fuel problem of some kind but it's now parked in my driveway and can be dealt with later.  What a day!

[b5blue]

  When I was his age I had a 64 Nova wagon that someone put sugar in the gas tank. I got pretty good at pulling the filter off the carb for a clean out to get back on the road. The aggravation stuck with me over the years and now with modern fuels quirks it's even worse. Last year I got a sweet deal on a Yamaha TW200 with a rusty tank. Rust treatment/red liner coating and new pickup filter for the tank and it's purring.
  Look at "Marine fuel filters" they make them as large as oil filters, even have dual sets for boats. 

[lloyd3]

A marine filter is exactly what I need to look into. Thank you for that.

[lloyd3]

I am discovering that Colorado has adopted the "gross emitter" designation for all pre-1981 vehicles (yet another California concept?). I started hearing this tripe when we'd go to the "new" car shows when my then 12-year old son was all revved up over seeing Ferraris and Teslas at the "car of the year" slugfest here every spring. Some hi-flash bimbo (hired by the Colorado Auto Dealers Association no-less) was near the front of the show giving the kiddies and the rest of the brainless goobers in the line the story about "how new cars are soooo much greener than old cars, and because of that we need to get all the old cars off of the road ".  I'm thinking that is why I'm getting all the resistance from the dweebs at the Air Care Colorado screening center and at the DMV. What these unelected (& brainless) bureaucrats don't get is that there are so-few of these old cars left out here, the misicule amount of emissions produced by their extremely infrequent use doesn't amount to a popcorn fart in a whirlwind.  Social justice warriors tend to piss me off anymore.

[RallyeMike]

Maybe I missed it, but did you drop the tank and clean it / blow out the fuel line?
The gunk in a 60 year old tank will be endless!

[lloyd3]

Not yet. I had hoped to use a good fuel filter to keep the "gunk" at bay. What we're figuring out now is that the pick-up "sock" in the tank has deteriorated and may be the culprit. Oh well, on a brighter note we found a parts car today and only about 25-miles from the house.



Looks like hell but the fenders are actually not bad, as are the rockers and back bumper. Lots of little dash and trim parts are good as well.  Wish his had that roof-line (!). This is/was a 1960 Pioneer 2-DRHT with a 318 auto.

[Kern Dog]

Great thread, Lloyd.
I'm surprised to read that they have emission testing on a car that old. California only tests cars model year 1976-2015.
Sucks to see anything CA related has infected your DMV....Nobody likes bureaucracy except the bureaucrats, right?

[b5blue]

  Fl. use to test lights/brakes/emission but dropped it in the 70's. Va. has PIA tests for too much rust and other stuff, combined with stupid taxing system makes for odd old car/truck market. Leaks is a new one on me most old cars leak something.

[RallyeMike]

They have been phasing out emissions testing in WA for the last 15 years. This year 2020 is the last year they are doing it.
The lawmakers actually listened to the logic that newer cars run so clean that there is no reason to test them, and that older car are such a small % of the total vehicle fleet miles that it does not make scientific or economic sense to test them either.

Somehow, sometimes the system actually works. Considering how blue and green things are here, it's actually quite shocking.

What we're figuring out now is that the pick-up "sock" in the tank has deteriorated and may be the culprit.

This was the exact culprit on my 60 Plymo.... and that was 25 years ago!

[Nacho-RT74]

Not yet. I had hoped to use a good fuel filter to keep the "gunk" at bay. What we're figuring out now is that the pick-up "sock" in the tank has deteriorated and may be the culprit. Oh well, on a brighter note we found a parts car today and only about 25-miles from the house.



Looks like hell but the fenders are actually not bad, as are the rockers and back bumper. Lots of little dash and trim parts are good as well.  Wish his had that roof-line (!). This is/was a 1960 Pioneer 2-DRHT with a 318 auto.

this is maybe the one I would build being hardtop

[lloyd3]

Any tips for dealing with removal of the gas tank on this car? The straps look quite good but I didn't get a close look at the rest of it.

[MoPaR 312]

Love these old '60 Dodges.  My dad has quite a few of them with the Polaras being his favorite.

His website hasn't been updated in probably 7 years but you can see some of them online if you want to take a look...  www.mopardoc.com

[lloyd3]

Very neat, thank you.

[MoPaR 312]

If the parts car isn't too rough I agree I would fix the 2 door instead but who knows how long it sat with no windshield. Looks to have tinted side windows? AC car?

[lloyd3]

The parts car simply isn't viable.  Both are 2-doors, but the hardtop has (IMHO) much prettier lines.

[lloyd3]

Finally...a warm day to work.







Now, we just have to figure out what's next. The strap bolts were shot with penetrating oil and few days ago and came right off. We'll be able to re-use them (pretty amazing).  The metal above the tank is still shiny....go figure?

[lloyd3]

Typical of most young men, while I was researching how to safely take the float assembly out (and had told him to wait a minute) he went ahead and did it. He's mildly ADHD and doesn't listen for spit unless you get a response from your directions.  Drives me nuts sometimes. Anyway...



and...



There is a round piece of flat metal flopping around in the tank that isn't coming out (way to big for the only opening). You can partially see it in the open tank hole shot. The tank interior isn't pretty but I can't see why it would really be a problem. The pick-up filter was loaded with fine sediments but...not sure it was the problem either.  We'll maybe hit it with a pressure washer/car wash trip but I can't see what that will really improve.

[HANDM]

When I had to clean the tank on my former Cuda, I threaded a length of heavy chain into it, set it on a table and shook the shit out of it on all sides. From there a bit of soapy water and a few rinses and it was pretty damn clean.

Don't lose the original lock ring the reproductions suck, are thinner and won't seal properly

[Nacho-RT74]

have you thought on get the hardtop saved/storaged and maybe someday later build it with the one you have actually ? Being hardtop makes it more interesting if you ask me...

just of course if is not rotten and just surface rust

[lloyd3]

Any suggestions for replacing the filter on the pick-up?  I'm considering just cleaning it and figuring out how to re-use it.

[b5blue]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Fuel-Gas-Tank-Sending-Unit-Filter-Sock-NEW-3-8/362636173082?hash=item546eccdf1a:g:7V0AAOSw5dNWpoKF

[lloyd3]

b5blue: Wonderful, thankyou! That sure looks like it.

[DAY CLONA]

If you need a NEW tank and sending unit, check out Vans Auto, they manufacture a lot of tanks/sending units for Mopars mid 50's to early 60"s, as well as a host of other parts for these cars, don't go to the website as most of the older year Mopar repros are not posted/listed, call for needs....

Mike