DodgeCharger.com Forum
December 08, 2022, 05:50:30 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Please remember: this is the place to discuss Chargers - NOT the place to discuss politics. Political posts will be locked or deleted at the Moderator's discretion.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Login Register Chat  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Painters please help! It's home and painted!  (Read 28116 times)
b5blue
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,591


« on: February 02, 2012, 06:19:12 PM »

  OK...you have "Acrylic's" in Enamel, Urethane and Lacquer. What I've decided to do is get my car back to B-5 Blue or close (Bright Blue Poly.) as reasonable as I can for now. I'm looking for nothing fancy and much later will be doing rear 1/4's, trunk gutters and so on. I'll be removing the blue paint on there now (It's coming off with a scraper.) and sanding down the primer underneath. The roof and trunk will be down to steel as they were the worst. I'm mostly wanting to shoot a topcoat for UV protection and figuring this paint job as "sacrificial". I've found acrylic enamel and urethane online for anywhere from 45.00 to 175.00 per GL. depending on mix. (The higher was for true B-5 mix.)
  What would anyone recommend for "a low $$ kinda do for now so I can get to some other things" approach? (Most of my budget for paint just got pumped up to Gainsville keeping my son in collage and I have another starting hopefully this year, OL' Blue has to wait for the good stuff!)   shruggy  
   Any opinions/advise are welcome! (I'm lost and clueless!   lol  )
Logged
Patronus
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,662



« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2012, 07:15:33 PM »

Do it right, and do it once.  Twocents
Logged

'73 Cuda 340 5spd RMS
'69 Charger 383 "Luci"
'08 CRF 450r
'12.5 450SX FE
Silver R/T
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,922


1968 Dodge Charger R/T


« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2012, 08:04:47 PM »

I would put it in epoxy primer until you are ready for a decent paint job
Logged

http://www.cardomain.com/id/mitmaks

1968 silver/black/red striped R/T
My Charger is hybrid, it runs on gas and on tears of ricers
2001 Ram 2500 CTD
1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE
1995 Ford Cobra SVT#2722
jaak
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,287



« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2012, 08:59:07 PM »

Whether using acrylic enamel or urethane (both single stages), it is easy to 'tiger stripe' the metallic if you are not careful, I know this sounds crazy, but on the final coat, you got to 'fog' the paint on the even out the metallics. Out of those two choices, urethane will be a lot more durable, but will be more expensive. I like to use single stage urethane for solid colors, and BC/CC (BC/CC is urethane too) for metallic colors. If you are dead set on doing a cheap paint job just to get by, I would recommend using Kirker paint (that is what Summit and Eastwood sell, they just change the labels), for a cheap paint it is decent, its available in Acrylic enamel, urethane and BC/CC. The only draw back is they do not mix, they are all 'pre-packaged' colors, but they have several blues to choose from. http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/colorchart.html (single stage urethane color chart).

But as others have said, if you just want to drive/enjoy the car, I personally would just put a good epoxy primer on it.

Here is a great site to learn things pertaining to body/paint and all the supplies... http://autobodystore.com/forum/index.php



Just some facts to think on,
Jason
Logged

b5blue
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,591


« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2012, 04:56:22 AM »

Thanks guys! Jaak will epoxy primer stick well to other primers? Kirker has a bright blue met. that is close to B-5 and acceptable. (Thanks for the link.)
Logged
Domino
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 251



« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2012, 05:37:16 AM »

Thanks guys! Jaak will epoxy primer stick well to other primers? Kirker has a bright blue met. that is close to B-5 and acceptable. (Thanks for the link.)

Epoxy primer is used to seal polyester primer/filler repairs prior to paint, so yes.
Logged
Cooter
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,028


"So What? So Let's DANCE"


« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2012, 06:57:59 AM »

Primer IS NOT Paint and contrary to popular belief, it will NOT protect your ride unless you are spraying it for the "look" of having had bodywork done...Primer breathes. Therefore, the metal will rust through if driven in the weather.
Logged

" I have spent thousands of dollars and countless hours researching what works and what doesn't and I'm willing to share"
superbirdtom
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 748


« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2012, 11:17:36 AM »

I have used every paint under the sun. started paintingin 1973.  My choice for single stage metallic. is Concept by ppg.    Now  since you are going with a METALLIC single stage . when painting just get the paint on don't worry about tiger stripes on your first three coats. just get good coverage.  then on your fourth coat get it even  without tiger stripes, and continue just walking around the car fogging make full side passes ,do not panel paint you want to get the biggest fan and use slow reducer.   

                             Now heres another thing to do if u want the best single stage metallic paint job ever . is to paint the car with three coats, then let it harden for a week and gas off set up.  then block out the car with 3m 1000 grit wet paper. use a 8 inch block and get a ABSORBER BRAND shammy to use in wet sanding process . all other shammys suck!.   after you wet sand block the entire car.with 1000.    remask and repaint right after you are done with the remask.        now  you are spraying onto a hard shell. you won't believe the difference. it will shine like a fully polished car.    Thing is you can't block and buff out mettalic single stages.     yeah its a lot of work  but the results are worth it. plus the first paint job gives you experience.   Good luck
Logged
Silver R/T
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,922


1968 Dodge Charger R/T


« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2012, 12:10:37 PM »

Primer IS NOT Paint and contrary to popular belief, it will NOT protect your ride unless you are spraying it for the "look" of having had bodywork done...Primer breathes. Therefore, the metal will rust through if driven in the weather.
Epoxy primer stands up to elements very well. Personally I would recommend SPI epoxy http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/
Logged

http://www.cardomain.com/id/mitmaks

1968 silver/black/red striped R/T
My Charger is hybrid, it runs on gas and on tears of ricers
2001 Ram 2500 CTD
1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE
1995 Ford Cobra SVT#2722
b5blue
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,591


« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2012, 04:42:11 PM »

Again thank you guys. I did realize the normal factors that would apply to a shop don't apply to me. Slow cure times and re-shoots for me are an advantage. I checked and Kirker has been manufacturing paints for 100 years right here in the U.S. so that can't be bad.  Superbirdtom's advise sounds good, I hate patching instead of replacing but that's just out of reach for now. I'll be checking into SPI also, thanks for the link Silver RT! Cooter you get my situation, the sun and wetness of Florida is relentless and brutal. I may try white while learning to shoot then overcoat to blue?  scratchchin
Logged
bill440rt
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,775



« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2012, 08:49:53 PM »

Hey, Neal.  cheers
Like it was mentioned, your BEST bet is to wait to do it right. However...
If you have your heart set on getting your car painted sooner than later, given the climate in which you live I would go with a urethane based single stage over an acrylic enamel based single stage any day of the week. It is a more durable paint. If your prep work holds up, you could always wet sand the snot out of it down the road in prep for a base/clear job to be put over it. A regular acrylic enamel job will not hold up as good to the elements. The PPG Concept line is a very good single stage. Expensive yes, but with paint you get what you pay for. I also like DuPont's ChromaOne. I've never used Kirker products, so I can't comment on those.

You will not be able to fully sand or buff a single stage metallic, or else you will either get tiger stripes or blotchiness in the metallic. You could probably get away taking care of a few dirt nibs here or there, but not fully wet sanding or buffing.

An epoxy primer will hold up much better than non-epoxy, it is also less porous. However, it will not hold up to UV over time & will turn chalky. It needs to be topcoated.

I would strip the car down to metal (preferably blast, DA sander, or chemical, in that order of preference), then apply a GOOD epoxy primer. You can do your bodywork from there, then apply a GOOD filler or hi-build primer. Block, apply a sealer (PPG has a sealer mix for use with their DP epoxy line), then paint.

Remember, your paint job is only as good as your prep work underneath.  2thumbs

Logged

"Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exists and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough." Sir Henry Rolls Royce
68 Bullitt Charger
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 219



« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 08:58:23 PM »

As some of the guys mentioned, best thing is to wait, save up and do it the 100% correct way. Personally its the only way IMO. 2thumbs It will re-rust twice as fast not using the proper materials and labor. Twocents Good luck......
Logged

Some of the Mopar Ride's in Stable.....
58 Pymouth Fury "Christine"
65 Ply Satellite 9.43@141 mph
58 Ply Fury "Christine"
64 40th anniv 880 Custom 383 Pwr Everything!




I'd rather be hated for the person I am, than be loved for the person I am not!!!!!!
b5blue
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,591


« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2012, 10:06:58 AM »

 How about "Body in white" then, you've steered me to that! (Thanks!) B5blue's white Charger....I hate it....but it's best for now....boring old, plain, white.  eyes
  White it is....(WAAAHHHH!) that removes many problems for now. I was considering satin black but just from feeling the sun's heat of the roof in black Rust Encapsulator holy cow I burned my hand!!!
   Don't get me wrong, white is nice and looks great on a white Charger but the first time I saw my car (Before it was mine.) I was Gob-struck  drool5 with B5blue on B5blue 2nd gen Charger. It had me soooo bad I made a deal with the devil's ex-wife, (My ex-mother in law.) to buy and then keep it. (The many door dings along the sides are a dear reminder of her smashing her car's door into it every chance she could.) 
   Key components like the hood, roof and trunk will be stripped to steel on the exterior and done as recommended. Fenders and doors not so much as they will be removed later to do inside and out. I'll run cost projections that way for now and see.
  I'm glad you guys are giving input THANKS!! b5white... lol
   
 
Logged
hemi-hampton
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,672


mopar or no car


« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2012, 09:25:31 PM »

Could always go to MAACO.  I prefer Dupont Centari single stage. Do they still make that? LEON.
Logged
bill440rt
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,775



« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2012, 09:36:43 PM »

Could always go to MAACO.  I prefer Dupont Centari single stage. Do they still make that? LEON.


Yep. Last I checked, they still do Leon.  yesnod
However, given the heat & humidity where Neal is from is why I suggested a urethane such as ChromaOne. Centari is good as far as acrylic enamel goes, but a urethane based paint is better.
Logged

"Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exists and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough." Sir Henry Rolls Royce
b5blue
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,591


« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2012, 07:06:03 AM »

So a white urethane over epoxy primer....
Logged
Highbanked Hauler
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,642



« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2012, 11:29:52 AM »

So a white urethane over epoxy primer....

   That would do it for sure. You would have to read the tech. sheet on epoxy primer  but I think with 2 coats you would be weather proof. Years ago PPG used to have a white epoxy primer when we were first dealing with pearls but definitely read the tech or product sheet on what ever you are going to use.
Logged

69 Charger 500, original owner  
 68 Charger former parts car in process of rebuilding
 92 Cummins Turbo Diesel
 04 PT Cruiser
superbirdtom
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 748


« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2012, 11:53:06 AM »

So a white urethane over epoxy primer....
                                   


                                  i JUST USED UPOL HIGH BUILD PRIMER OVER SOME EPOXY . PPG DP-50 GREY EPOXY AND GREY UPOL .HE UPOL FILLS TWICE AS GOOD AS THE K-36 FROM PPG AND IS HALF THE COST.  ITS SO DENSE AND THICK YOU HAVE TO REDUCE IT OUT TO GET IT TO EVEN GET IT OUT OF THE GUN.

                          lIKE OTHERS HAV SAID  BARE METAL. FINISHED WITH 150 GRIT DA. THEN WIPE IT ALL DOWN WITH SOME GOOD WAX AND GREASE SOLVENT, A GOOD ONE THAT IS A CLEAN SOLVENT IS NAPAS   KLEANZ EZ     .  THEN USE PPG GREY EPOXY SEALER. A GOOD COUPLE COATS  THEN DO ALL YOUR BONDO WORK OVER THAT, HEN  HIT ALL THE BARE METAL THAT COMES THROUGH AFTER YOUR BONDO WORK.  THEN HIT ALL BARE METAL SPOTS AGIN WITH THE EPOXY.    HEN SCUFF THE WHOLE THING WITH A RED SCOTHBRITE PAD.  THEN UPOL THE HELL OUTTA IT.  yOU CAN MIX IT AND SHOOT IT WITHOUT WAITING BETWEN COATS AS IT DRIES VERY FAST .  USE SOME GOOD REDUCER TO THIN IT OUT JUST ENOUGH TO GET IT OUT OF THE GUN.  iD SUGGEST A 6.0 OR 8.0 TIP O HE GUN.   IT IS VERY HAD TO GET IT TO RUN. IT IS A 4-TO 1 MIX .  tAKE THE CAN DOWN TO LOCAL HARDWARE STORE AND HAVE THEM SHAKE I FOR 15 MIUTES.


 i ACTUALLY PUT REDUCER IN IT BEFORE I PUT IT ON MY SHAKER. 10%.   IT STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN SO PLEASE DON;T BREATH THE VAPORS LET ALONE OVERSPRAY.  1 GALLON SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO DO THE ENTIRE CAR.   i COULD GO ONAND ON.  LAST MOST IMPORTANT THING WITH UPOL PRIMER IN THE ORANGE CAN IS THAT AFTER CURING FOR A COUPLE DAYS .  FINISH IT WITH FINAL SANDPAPER OF 600 GRIT AND EPOXY THE WHOLE CAR BEFORE PAINTING OR THE PAINT WILL NOT STICK TO IT.    i JUST DID A COMPLETE AND WENT FROM 150- 240 TO 320 -400 TO 600.   THAT WAS ON MY HUTCHINS MODEL 800 ORBITAL LONG BOARD.  PLUS OTHER VARIOUS SNDING FLEXIBLE AND NON FLEXIBLE BLOCKS

WE GET 180 INCHES OF RAIN HERE ANDi HAVE TO DO JOBS  THAT WON'T COME BACK SO i KNOW HOW TO DO THIS AS A COMEBACK MEANS i HAVE TO REDO IT ON MY OWN TIME.. iVE LEARNED IT DON'T PAY TO GO TO CHEAP ON MATERIALS.   AND THE UPOL SANDS WAAAY BETTER THAN PPG K-36.  i PAINTED A DEHAVILLAND BEAVER WITH PPG CONCEPT ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO AND IT STILL LOOKS GOOD.  ID BETTER SHUT UP.   ANY PAINTING ADVISE  JUST LET ME KNOW.
Logged
superbirdtom
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 748


« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2012, 12:00:12 PM »

So a white urethane over epoxy primer....

   That would do it for sure. You would have to read the tech. sheet on epoxy primer  but I think with 2 coats you would be weather proof. Years ago PPG used to have a white epoxy primer when we were first dealing with pearls but definitely read the tech or product sheet on what ever you are going to use.
                   ppg EPOXY WILL NOT LAST OUT IN THE ELEMENTS.  i KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE.  IT WOULD PROBABLY BE OK TO MIX SOME PPG DP-50 GREY EPOXY WITH THE DP-48 WHITE EPOXY TO TO GET AN OFF WHITE AND A BASE THAT WILL COVER . WHITE DP-48 IS THE POOREST HIDING AND LESS PIGMENT THAN ALL THEIR EPOXY LINE.   iF  YOU KEEP IT OUT OF THE RAIN. AND PUT A GOOD 6 COATS ON IT.   YOULL BE OK FOR A WHILE.  RAIN IS ITS ENEMY.  THANX  TOM
Logged
Silver R/T
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,922


1968 Dodge Charger R/T


« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2012, 12:19:47 PM »

Try SPI epoxy, you won't regret it. It's BETTER than PPG DPLF epoxy. PPG does have good base (deltron) and their clears are not bad but they're way too overpriced. You can get better product for less money imo.
I use Finish 1 FP410 2K HS Urethane Primer vs PPG K36(another overpriced product) I get it at very good price and it build excellent.
Logged

http://www.cardomain.com/id/mitmaks

1968 silver/black/red striped R/T
My Charger is hybrid, it runs on gas and on tears of ricers
2001 Ram 2500 CTD
1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE
1995 Ford Cobra SVT#2722
superbirdtom
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 748


« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2012, 12:24:30 PM »

Try SPI epoxy, you won't regret it. It's BETTER than PPG DPLF epoxy. PPG does have good base (deltron) and their clears are not bad but they're way too overpriced. You can get better product for less money imo.
I use Finish 1 FP410 2K HS Urethane Primer vs PPG K36(another overpriced product) I get it at very good price and it build excellent.
                   


hEY i AGREE THEIRS LESS EXPENSIVE PAINTS AND SUCH THAT ARE BETTER OR AS GOOD AS THE BIG NAME BRANDS.  jUST ORDERED SOME MIPA PRIMER WILL BE HERE NEXT WEEK. SINCE I PAINT 7-365 DAYS A YEAR I TRY TO GET ANYTHING THAT STINKS LESS.  aND NOW IM ALLERGIC TO K-36   A WAY OVERPRICED -THIN AND STUPID PRIMER .  SO YEAH ITS TRIAL AND ERROR. 
Logged
Patronus
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,662



« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2012, 01:59:54 PM »

another vote for the FP410   yesnod

If you have to leave it, leave it in sealer, better than primer IMHO
Logged

'73 Cuda 340 5spd RMS
'69 Charger 383 "Luci"
'08 CRF 450r
'12.5 450SX FE
b5blue
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,591


« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2012, 02:33:14 PM »

More thanks for the input guys.  2thumbs
  I'm inspired to continue stripping and start filling and patching what I can. The work done up to now is what's showed me the need to prep/repair and get a topcoat on it. White will let me do the car in sections then move to the next and then scuff and re-shoot the whole thing at my buddy's shop one last time. I'm bookmarking this topic for myself as a reference so add anything you think may help, work will be going slow between Dad duty and my job. I have some "throwaway" guns from Harbor Freight to mess with and a dryer and filters to add to my compressor next.  scratchchin 
Logged
Patronus
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,662



« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2012, 03:04:55 PM »

I would block sand the shit out of it starting with 150g. Bring it up to 220g-320g. Then a light "scratch-coat" of the FP410, wait 10 mins and then x2 full coats. After its dry, prep the whole car in 220 and begin your filler from there. Spot sand rougher where you use filler. I would also add, it can be hard to feather filler to filler. I always try to primer in between applications. (unless you cover the entire area again) And always use a block, they never lie. Work panel by panel from one end to the other, little by little and soon you'll be in sealer.. I would think B5 would be best with grey sealer depending on the actual shade you want. The sealer color will affect the final color tone. I just use the closest sealer color to save on paint.
Logged

'73 Cuda 340 5spd RMS
'69 Charger 383 "Luci"
'08 CRF 450r
'12.5 450SX FE
b5blue
Old Timer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,591


« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2012, 05:26:30 PM »

  I'm getting confused (Again) some specs call for etching primer on bare steel prior to urethane (2K) primer or epoxy primer? Can I use epoxy primer OVER steel, old paint and old primer? What about 2K urethane primer? (Of course given it's stable.) I'm having trouble interpreting 4 company's different specs.
  I may be pissing up a tree but am trying to find an all purpose primer for a urethane (single stage white) topcoat. So far only Eastwood's actually claims outright it will do this. I'm fine with trying their stuff but SPI has a very fine reputation on many forums.
  Also I'm assuming I can re-coat my urethane primer or top coat as long as it's properly scuffed/sanded.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.07 seconds with 17 queries.