Water or Antifreeze?

[70sixpkrt]

This question has probably been asked before but I'm going to ask anyway. What is better for a 500hp motor with aluminum heads, water with water wetter or 50/50 antifreeze? It is used on the street and freeway and sees about 2000 miles a year.

[Charger-Bodie]

i personally would vote for water and wetter but i run 50/50 antifreze due to how cold it gets here in iowa in the winter , with my luck id wake up realizing i forgot to change it , then go out to the garage to find a broken block.

[Ghoste]

I've had my best cooling results with distilled water and water wetter and then for the winter I dump in some antifreeze.

[tecmopar]

If you want the cooling system to stay a little cleaner always use Distilled water as Ghoste said when using a mix, good luck.

[six-tee-nine]

Most antifreeze additives also help to bring down the boiling point of the water so that's a thing to think about...

[Chryco Psycho]

rust starts 11 seconds after Iron gets wet , I would use at least a small percentage of anti freeze & put it in first , it lubes the water pump as well 

[OttawaCharger]

Most antifreeze additives also help to bring down the boiling point of the water so that's a thing to think about...

Actually, I believe that antifreeze lowers the freezing point and raises the boiling point of the solution above that of pure water, permitting operation of the engine at a higher temperature without boiling over.  This shouldn't really be an issue with a good cooling system but its nice insurance to have.

[six-tee-nine]

Yes Ottawa, that's what in meant but wrote it down wrong.....

[Ghoste]

So why don't we use pure antifreeze in all our systems?

[OttawaCharger]

So why don't we use pure antifreeze in all our systems?

Pure antifreeze will not conduct heat and will cause the engine to over heat.  Water is the key ingredient to this mixture.  The antifreeze is only there to providing freeze and boil protection and if you're lucky some corrosion protection and a bit of lubrication for the water pump.

[Ghoste]

Hmm, I don't understand the chemistry behind it and I suppose I don't need to.  I still have to say however, that my car seems to run cooler in the summer on straight distilled water with a bottle of that Water Wetter in it.  I can't offer any science to any of that though either. 

[The70RT]

I agree. Distilled water has a higher boiling point....without the city minerals......Iron lime clay calcium and whatever else seeps into our systems. I always argued and said say what?? with a friend when he said he worked at napa and pure antifreeze came in frozen on pallets on the semi when shipped in very low subzero conditions.

[Ghoste]

  I didn't know it could get that cold?

[is_it_EVER_done?]

70sixpkrt: The best solution by far is to use a name brand, 50/50 pre mix, factory approved, DEX coolant (DEX~~~) is the GM brand name for the coolant necessary to protect aluminium parts. Ford and Chrysler have their own name, but the Dex stuff is what you can find at ANY auto parts store.

The 50/50 mix already has the water added (which sounds like a rip-off), but keep in mind that it is filtered/treated/processed water that is much better than distilled/de-ionized bottled stuff and also has additives that, along with the specialized coolant, is designed to treat new aluminum parts for the maximum anti-corrosion protection while delivering the best compromise of cooling/antifreeze/antiboil properties and lubrication.

It was developed over several years of failure analysis of engines/cooling systems, by the factories (warrantee repairs) as more and more aluminum parts were introduced, and is absolutely mandatory to maintain the warrantee of new cars.

I always state what is my opinion vs. fact, and in this case I can assure you that this is fact. It's simple, and just a bit more expensive than trying to mix your own.

[The70RT]

Maybe Dex-cool  protects aluminum but it eats up gaskets and they cause lots of leaks. I know a ton of people who had intake leaks with this crap in their system. My wifes car was under warranty and the intake leaked at 60,000. Changing intakes on the newer cars are no fun.......it will make you switch after you do a few hard to do intake repairs. They upgraded the gaskets now so maybe the brand new cars won't have that problem. Just add a little regular antifreeze to the system and boom.....you got a hell of a mess. It turns the coolant to sludge and plugs everything. If you use it make sure it is a new system so you don't mix the two and GOOD LUCK!

[Brightyellow69rtse]

70rt your dead on with the gaskits. i went through 2 impalas that way. first was at 86k and the 2nd was 42k. intake gaskit leak right into the head...poof  :RantExplode:i will never ever buy another chevy or put any dex cool in anything.......Mike

[70sixpkrt]

I have decided to use Prestone 50/50. It says it is good for aluminum.

[firefighter3931]

I have decided to use Prestone 50/50. It says it is good for aluminum.

Should be fine Ricky !



Ron

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Maybe Dex-cool  protects aluminum but it eats up gaskets and they cause lots of leaks. I know a ton of people who had intake leaks with this crap in their system. My wifes car was under warranty and the intake leaked at 60,000. Changing intakes on the newer cars are no fun.......it will make you switch after you do a few hard to do intake repairs. They upgraded the gaskets now so maybe the brand new cars won't have that problem. Just add a little regular antifreeze to the system and boom.....you got a hell of a mess. It turns the coolant to sludge and plugs everything. If you use it make sure it is a new system so you don't mix the two and GOOD LUCK!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

70rt your dead on with the gaskits. i went through 2 impalas that way. first was at 86k and the 2nd was 42k. intake gaskit leak right into the head...poof :RantExplode:i will never ever buy another chevy or put any dex cool in anything.......Mike

I hesitated even replying to this question because I knew these types of posts would come up. Just so you know, none of the points made are accurate. This has been tested probably more than ANY substance on earth, even more than most drugs, and in every single test these claims have been proven false. Even in tests of over two years by court appointed, outside sources (due to class action lawsuits due to "so called" DEX coolant failure).

In EVERY case, failure was due to either the poor design of some engines (high points in the cooling system that trap air, which allows oxidation, as well as radiator designs that don't allow all the air to be removed from the system), running the coolant at to low a level (allowing air into the system which allows oxidation), or improper/shoddy maintenance by the owners and/or mechanics. Think about it! If DEX had ANY inherent problems, would it still be used after nearly 20 years? Consider the cost of warrantee repairs to the manufacturers. The fact is that there is no better soulution.

The problem lies in that DEX performs possibly too well in as much as it eliminates electrolysis of metal, so if there are areas that are not fully covered, the "open" areas become like the electrode on a spark plug as they have to provide all the electrolysis/metal transfer due to the DC voltage that is always part of a running engine (how the "DEX eats gaskets" myth came about).

There's really no point in going into this as those that have their mind made up, or believe the internet misinformation, will stand by their beliefs even in the face of indisputable evidence. However, if protecting your high dollar aluminum parts, as well as the iron pieces is important, I have yet to find anything that works as well, or leaves the cooling system cleaner.

I change coolant every two years instead of the 5 that is recommended for DEX, so perhaps that has something to do with it, but even in the long term/high mileage tests, it has performed perfectly. Also keep in mind that many millions of cars have performed flawlessly, for nearly 20 years, with the DEX (or Chrysler/Ford equivalent) in them.

As more and more of us invest Thousands into aluminum parts (heads, water pumps/housings, radiators), plus the difficulty (expense) of finding good blocks that are thick enough to handle high HP loading (I sonic checked 20 blocks before choosing the one for my Charger), as well as aluminum replacing brass for heater cores, running straight water or Ethylene Glycol/water mix is just not a reasonable alternative.

If you are running all iron parts, EG is the best choice, but because aluminum oxide and iron oxide mixed create a constantly chemically changing "soup" (this is the "sludge" that is commonly blamed on DEX), EG becomes a guaranteed failure point given time and miles. An aluminum radiator will be the first to go.

Use what you want, but at least do at least a little research before buying into the "DEX is liquid Satan" misinformation.

[Chryco Psycho]

Water wetter is a chemical that allows the coolant to bond with the metal , most coolant will boil on hot surfaces like water on a BBQ grille , there is a layer of steam betweenthe water & iron , water wetter eliminates the steam making the colling system more effiecient

[The70RT]

Maybe Dex-cool  protects aluminum but it eats up gaskets and they cause lots of leaks. I know a ton of people who had intake leaks with this crap in their system. My wifes car was under warranty and the intake leaked at 60,000. Changing intakes on the newer cars are no fun.......it will make you switch after you do a few hard to do intake repairs. They upgraded the gaskets now so maybe the brand new cars won't have that problem. Just add a little regular antifreeze to the system and boom.....you got a hell of a mess. It turns the coolant to sludge and plugs everything. If you use it make sure it is a new system so you don't mix the two and GOOD LUCK!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

70rt your dead on with the gaskits. i went through 2 impalas that way. first was at 86k and the 2nd was 42k. intake gaskit leak right into the head...poof :RantExplode:i will never ever buy another chevy or put any dex cool in anything.......Mike

I hesitated even replying to this question because I knew these types of posts would come up. Just so you know, none of the points made are accurate. This has been tested probably more than ANY substance on earth, even more than most drugs, and in every single test these claims have been proven false. Even in tests of over two years by court appointed, outside sources (due to class action lawsuits due to "so called" DEX coolant failure).

In EVERY case, failure was due to either the poor design of some engines (high points in the cooling system that trap air, which allows oxidation, as well as radiator designs that don't allow all the air to be removed from the system), running the coolant at to low a level (allowing air into the system which allows oxidation), or improper/shoddy maintenance by the owners and/or mechanics. Think about it! If DEX had ANY inherent problems, would it still be used after nearly 20 years? Consider the cost of warrantee repairs to the manufacturers. The fact is that there is no better soulution.

The problem lies in that DEX performs possibly too well in as much as it eliminates electrolysis of metal, so if there are areas that are not fully covered, the "open" areas become like the electrode on a spark plug as they have to provide all the electrolysis/metal transfer due to the DC voltage that is always part of a running engine (how the "DEX eats gaskets" myth came about).

There's really no point in going into this as those that have their mind made up, or believe the internet misinformation, will stand by their beliefs even in the face of indisputable evidence. However, if protecting your high dollar aluminum parts, as well as the iron pieces is important, I have yet to find anything that works as well, or leaves the cooling system cleaner.

I change coolant every two years instead of the 5 that is recommended for DEX, so perhaps that has something to do with it, but even in the long term/high mileage tests, it has performed perfectly. Also keep in mind that many millions of cars have performed flawlessly, for nearly 20 years, with the DEX (or Chrysler/Ford equivalent) in them.

As more and more of us invest Thousands into aluminum parts (heads, water pumps/housings, radiators), plus the difficulty (expense) of finding good blocks that are thick enough to handle high HP loading (I sonic checked 20 blocks before choosing the one for my Charger), as well as aluminum replacing brass for heater cores, running straight water or Ethylene Glycol/water mix is just not a reasonable alternative.

If you are running all iron parts, EG is the best choice, but because aluminum oxide and iron oxide mixed create a constantly chemically changing "soup" (this is the "sludge" that is commonly blamed on DEX), EG becomes a guaranteed failure point given time and miles. An aluminum radiator will be the first to go.

Use what you want, but at least do at least a little research before buying into the "DEX is liquid Satan" misinformation.

Found it is on the net.

GM Dexcool Intake Manifold lawsuit settlement

The problems with certain GM engines and the intake manifold deteriorating prematurely may have a court resolution for you if you have paid anything out of warranty for repairs. I was on the Law firm's mailing list and today received an email, which stated the same as this web page:

We are pleased to announce that we have reached a tentative nationwide settlement with General Motors...

You will have the option to be included in the settlement if you incurred out-of-pocket expenses for any of the following repairs:

1. A replacement of the lower intake gasket, made within 7 years or 150,000 miles of the date of initial delivery for 1995-2003.5 Model Year vehicles with 3.1-liter V6 and 3.4-liter V6 engines, where OEM lower intake manifold gasket was a nylon/silicone gasket, and the vehicle was equipped with Dex-Cool coolant.

2. A coolant sealability repair (including, but not limited to, throttle body gasket, upper intake manifold gasket, lower intake manifold gasket, etc.), made within 7 years or 150,000 miles of the date of initial delivery for 1995-2004 Model Year 3.8-liter V6 engines (RPO L36), where the vehicle was equipped with Dex-Cool coolant.

3. A Dex-Cool sludge repair, made within 7 years or 150,000 miles for 1995-2000 Model Year S/T light trucks and sport utility vehicles with 4.3-liter V6 engines and equipped with Dex-Cool coolant.

The settlement will require you to provide proof that you owned or leased the vehicle at the time of the repair and that you paid for an included repair. If you do not have a receipt, ask the auto repair shop that did the work to provide you with one.

The terms of the proposed settlement are confidential while we work to finalize the settlement papers for court approval. If the court preliminarily approves the settlement, the parties will publish, mail, and email a notice that describes the terms of the settlement and your legal rights. We hope to obtain court approval and get notice out by February 2008. At that time, we will be able to answer inquiries regarding the specifics of the settlement and how to file a claim. In the meantime, you should retain all receipts you have for repairs to your vehicle

To learn more about this case, you may click on the links to the right to review the Petition, the Court's Order certifying the case as a class action, and the class notice. For further information, please send an e-mail to dexcoolcase@girardgibbs.com.

[resq302]

hmmmm... that is the same thing that happened to my grandmothers 2000 Buick Century.  Itnake gasket got eaten away and then the brown sludge started all at 20,000 miles and 3 mos over the 3/36 warranty.  They (GM) only paid 60% of the repair.

[Nacho-RT74]

water wetter ? what's that ? some product around available on bottles ? never have known about that.

[resq302]

Water Wetter is made by Redline.  It comes in a pint container very similar to the size of a dry gas bottle would be.  It is a clear bottle with a flourescent pink liquid inside.  Royal Purple also makes the same stuff called Purple Ice.  I have used the Royal Purple stuff and it seems to do a better job of keeping the temps down than what the water wetter stuff does.

[Charger-Bodie]

water wetter ? what's that ? some product around available on bottles ? never have known about that.

Natco, Water Wetter is on ebay all the time check it out.........the stuff really does work too!!

[Ghoste]

Here is a little info Nacho.

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp

http://www.royalpurple.com/radiator-additive.html

[Nacho-RT74]

OK, sonds a nice combo... distiled water and water wetter ( or purple ice )... well at least as the advertising states.

Never have seen that down here or maybe I didn't pay attention of those. Will search If I can find locally.

Now... where to find distiled water ? LOL... I won't buy 2 DOZENS of small bottles used to batteries LOL. They are not cheap down here.

Anyway, can be used with regular water with same results ?... redline demo doesn't says anything about distiled water thought, althought I know distiled water definitelly would help!!!

[Ghoste]

Either one can be used with your usual coolant mixture, be it water or antifreeze.  If you can't find it down there pm me Nacho.

[bull]

In EVERY case, failure was due to either the poor design of some engines (high points in the cooling system that trap air, which allows oxidation, as well as radiator designs that don't allow all the air to be removed from the system), running the coolant at to low a level (allowing air into the system which allows oxidation), or improper/shoddy maintenance by the owners and/or mechanics. Think about it! If DEX had ANY inherent problems, would it still be used after nearly 20 years? Consider the cost of warrantee repairs to the manufacturers. The fact is that there is no better soulution.

This paragraph right here tells me that Dex is no good. Do they somehow expect the average consumer to know which engine and/or radiator designs are inferior? That's crazy. Who's going to go out of their way to do that research when they can just go buy something that works? It's the coolant-maker's job to work with what's out there, not to make something that ruins engines and then blame the engine- or radiator-manufacturers when they go bad. That's like producing ecoli-tainted beef and then blaming those who get sick for not having a tough enough stomach for it.

[hemihead]

If Dex is so great why would GM settle ? Anyway, the only ones to gain in this , like all Class Action suits, is the Lawyers. Each person will probably get $8.04

[bull]

If Dex is so great why would GM settle ? Anyway, the only ones to gain in this , like all Class Action suits, is the Lawyers. Each person will probably get $8.04

Enough money to buy one gallon of Prestone.