what should this 512 combo make

[mally69]

440 bored and stroked to 512 cu in
cnc ported indy EZ-1 cylinder heads
indy 440-2 intake
T&D roller rockers 1.5 ratio
11.1 compression
cam 269 / 272 dur @ .050  .601 lift 
1050 cfm carb
tti 2" tuned headers

just a rough idea on  hp and tq numbers,,,,,thats what i have layed out so far for this engine  plus i just bought a main girdle and caps  from bcr cant wait to start building this is there anything you guys would add or change   

[firefighter3931]

Power (max) will depend on cylinder head flow to a large extent. Based on the combo outlined it should make in the 650hp range or thereabouts. That's just a guess, of course. 


Ron

[mally69]

thats about what i had expected,, should make awesome street car

[Blakcharger440]

That combo sounds awesome....however what will be the end compression as 11.1 sounds a little high for pump gas in a street car.

[aifilaw]

That combo sounds awesome....however what will be the end compression as 11.1 sounds a little high for pump gas in a street car.

aluminum heads and a decent sized cam can make a 12.5:1 static CR engine run on 93 octane at sea level, I'd expect he shouldn't have much trouble with that combo unless the guy doing the tuning on the fuel/ignition can't get it right.

[Blakcharger440]

They no longer sell 93 around here. The best you can do is 91. And 12.5 compression...hmmmm.

[firefighter3931]

thats about what i had expected,, should make awesome street car

Yes it will ! 

As for the compression ratio comments it's not so much about static compression as it is about "dynamic" or cranking compression. The intake closing point on the cam will detrmine to a large extent how much cylinder pressure the engine will be making. The closed chamber aluminum heads will help a bunch too. I personally wouln't be comfortable running 12.5 on pump swill unless the cam was excessively large. The 11:1 is a safer bet with a cam that size, inmo.


Ron

[mally69]

where im from they 93 every where other than at sheetz,, sheetz carries up to 92   but down the road about 10 miles they sell race gas dont know what kind but dirt/oval track racing is popular in thia area.   i kinda figured id be safe with 11.1 static compression with 93  and maybe 92 if i retard the timing slighlty  does that sound right???

[mally69]

I just had a thought,,    if i had those heads cnc ported would that mean I would  have to rev the engine more to get the power out of it or not.. 

Im trying to figure out if i really should have them cnc ported or not. What your thoughs on this???

[firefighter3931]

I just had a thought,,    if i had those heads cnc ported would that mean I would  have to rev the engine more to get the power out of it or not.. 

Im trying to figure out if i really should have them cnc ported or not. What your thoughs on this???

The larger the port volume....the more engine you need underneath it. On a smaller engine that means you will have to rpm it to get it into the powerband. Of course the cam needs to be sized appropriately so that it makes power where the heads do. It's all a delicate balancing act. 

Do the EZ heds need to be cnc ported....probably not for what you want to do. On a motor that size you could probably get away with a std port window and a street dominator intake and still make 600+hp pretty easily. You could also make that with a set of ported E-heads as well.

Inmo, the only reason to go with an Indy Head over an E-head is if you want to move the powerband over 625-650hp. At that point the Indy EZ head should be opened up to a max wedge intake port but you will be spinning the engine higher to make that extra power. The bigger port will make the engine more sluggish at lower engine speeds but with a 4.25in stroke it will still be plenty strong.

Once you go to the MW port you will be into hood scoop modifications....the indy MW single plane will not clear a stock hood, so keep that in mind. The other thing to consider is the stock block....too much power or too much rpm and you will break it. 



Ron

[Streetwize]

I'd say close to 650, the EZ's are good heads but IMHO their only achilles heel is the stock height exhaust port, you need a cam with more exhaust bias and spread the centers out a tad to pull out the bigger numbers at higher RPM. make no mistake though, that is a sweet combination and is going to be a torque monster. The best upgrade IMO would be to invest in a roller cam, probably worth ~25hp on a big motor with no down side...except the cost of course. The bigrer .200 and up over the nose numbers will really help the slugs fill and empty by hanging them open longer for the same seat tto seat time.

I normally don't build RB's for much over 600hp but the girdle would help....might want to consider at least a short fill with final honing after full cure as well.

It's very similar to this 517 low deck that I finally finished...It's targeted to make just over 700, 12:1 compression, big Hydraulic roller cam, Indy MW ported dual plane, ~1050 cfm Pro-systems 4150....the only real Ace in the hole is the Heads....they're the Chapman MW Stage VI's that flow around 380I/260E @.700 lift with killer mid lift flows.

[mally69]

 Being a street / strip car I dont want to have to run a huge rpm to get the power out of it. Im uncertain how the car would act on the street, this is a gray area for me i just want to make the right move, But also have some good Hp-Tq numbers.  With those heads being  MW and CNC ported and with that cam I have to use a 4500 stall which is not problem or anything I just dont know how well mannered that would be?  the only thing I could compare it to is my 69 and it has a 3-3500 stall.

STREETWIZE I see your running a Mechanical fuel pump what size and where did you get it??

[Streetwize]

EZ-1's are max wedge size, your going to have torque off your displacement and compression, no worries there but if you go to the big single plane Indy that's not a real street friendly piece, especially with an automatic. You'd be suprised how tight the converter is on mine in terms of stall....flash is right to the torque peak and the torque is broad, high and flat, power everywhere. The motor is too much fun not to put more of it to the ground so by springtime the 4 speed is going back in!

FWIW, the indy dual plane when ported to MX size will have no trouble feeding 650+hp AT ALL:

here's an article on how it's done:

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0505_440_project_engine_build_2/install_photos.html

[mally69]

Sounds like these strokers are a blast to drive. Im getting excited all over again.  Sounds like you have a ripp snorting beast already built   

STREETWIZE I see your running a Mechanical fuel pump what size and where did you get it??

[mally69]

That link was pretty amasing I never would have thought a dual plane intake could flow that much.  I might have to look into that instead of the 440-2 intake. 

[firefighter3931]

Mally, the std EZ's are stock intake port window....the EZ-1's are MW as Wize says. There's another member here who is building a 512 with the std ez heads and a street dominator intake and 4150 style carb....950hp Holley. This combo is a pump gas build wth a solid roller cam and will be going on the dyno at some point....hopefully soon. The goal was to make 600+hp and keep everything under the hood. 

Dwayne at Porter Racing Heads did the cylinder head prep and will be dynoing the engine..... Stay tuned. 


Ron

[Streetwize]

Actually that's an old Holley race pump and it's just there to cover the hole I run an Aeromotive 140 electric.

[mally69]

Firefighter, i thought i seen a thread some where on this site where you posted a pic of a blue roadrunner or gtx that was pulling the front wheels at the line, and it was a street car, do you buy any chance know what that persons build is?  I cant seem to find the thread

[firefighter3931]

Firefighter, i thought i seen a thread some where on this site where you posted a pic of a blue roadrunner or gtx that was pulling the front wheels at the line, and it was a street car, do you buy any chance know what that persons build is?  I cant seem to find the thread

Yep, that pic was posted in Mefirst's thread regarding the purchase of a Cuda and the sale of his car. Thankfully Mefirst (Tom) is keeping his car ! I was just trying to show him it could be done with a big ole B-body. 

The Roadrunner belongs to a guy named Tom and the engine is a 496ci stroker built by Muscle Motors. The Heads are ez-1's with the 440-2 single plane and 950hp holley carb. The cam is a custom solid roller profile. The car runs 10.50's NA and 9.60's on the Juice (NOS). That launch pic was Tom's very first wheelstand and it was helped with the nitrous hit at launch. That wheelstand caused $1500 worth of damage to the car (oil pan/suspension) 

The Runner has a ladderbar suspension, 4200 stall and a dana with 4.10 gears hooking hard on 30in MT Drag radials. The car is pretty mellow when you hear it at idle and runs a full exhaust system. 


Ron

[BLAM]

Mally sounds like we have similar plans!  I am the other member Ron mentioned earlier building a 512.  My car is a 68 Charger R/T 4spd with a Dana 60 and 3.54 gears.  Gonna be a street car with trips to the track on MOPAR days.  Keeping the stock hood so I only have limited space for induction!  I went with aluminum caps but not the girdle.  The girdle was going to cause interference challenges with the center link and I couldn't raise the engine because of the stock hood.  I chose the long rod rotating assembly plan, incorporating the Chevy 7.1" rods and custom Diamond Pistons to get the zero deck height and max quench with the std EZ heads.  I went with std EZ head because my induction couldn't feed the max wedge port well enough.  Cam is a solid roller 252 / 262 @50 giving me .622" of lift after lash with HS 1.5 Rockers.  Using the SD intake with Streetwize recommended mods!  Desk Top Dyno says the combo will make a max of 640HP at 6000 RPM and 670TQ at 4000 RPM.  Torque is really flat and huge!  Dwayne will execute the Dyno tune when complete and I will post all the details!

[mally69]

Wow, sounds like a great combo that your running, i can't wait to see the dyno numbers . I put the girdle on and never gave the clearances ( center link )  a thought i hope it works ( im getting a knot hoping it works now haha)  I am planning on putting this in either my 69 that i have now  or a 68 if i can find one..I bought a 6pack style hood for 68-69 charger and the scoop  looks to be about the factory height.  Any thoughts on clearances?

Ron also on another thread that I have, recomended me call Dwayne, so this combo that i have outlined is what Dwayne and I are planning. I am purchasing the rest of my build from him cam heads etc...I would just like to get everyone's opinions on things so i make the right move with only 1 pass. If ya know what i mean.

[Streetwize]

If you got Dwayne Porter in your court, you're gonna be very happy!

Tell him Wize said Hello!!

[BLAM]

Mally it is like Wize said, if Dwayne is working the details you are all set!  He will steer you true!  Remember ask questions and learn, but trust Dwayne!  Too many cooks is not always the best thing!   

One other thing you might consider is something to keep the drivers side of the motor anchored down!  It will be a monster and will want to twist those motor mounts in half!   

[mally69]

One other thing you might consider is something to keep the drivers side of the motor anchored down!  It will be a monster and will want to twist those motor mounts in half!   

Yep, i got a set of solid mounts and a torque strap from schumaker

Streetwize, Yes, i will tell him you said hello.

I know i need subframe connectors.   When i take this to the track is there any specifications i would need to have regarding somthing like a full roll cage or will an 8 point bar be enough??

[firefighter3931]

Mally, you should stiffen up the chassis with a set of frame connectors and if you plan to race it an 8pt rollbar. The motor will make enough power to run well into the 10's....no doubt about it. Anything faster than 11.50 requires a rollbar and you should really do it anyway to keep the car from twisting up. I've allready done this to mine and posted pics awhile back of the rollbar install and frame connecters.

As mentioned by the other guys ; Dwayne will take care of your needs. You will get a ready to run product with no worries.    He is a great guy to deal with & I wouldn't think of using anyone else. 


Oh ya, tell him I said hi too...lol !



Ron