69 charger rear height difference.

[69chargeryeehaa]

question for you guys, i got a 69 charger r/t, 52000 original miles, in very nice shape, and in the rear, the pass side is about 1" or so lower than the drivers, everything looks ok, the car drives fine, but is there a common cause for the differance in height? anything i can check?  The car also has a rear sway bar, looks factory, and the bushings in the middle look home made, and i need to replace those, but there is no binding.  Is there a source for those bushings?  The leafsprings look ok, and are not flat, they still sit good, just there is a difference in height from side to side.  Everything is there on the leafs, nothing is missing and they look great.   

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Its quite possible that the RR spring has some fatigue.  That is the natural torque side (the way the car twists on a hard launch)

No rear sway bars from the factory on a 2nd gen

[69chargeryeehaa]

the rear springs look mint.  I'm thinking it's the bushings at the front and rear of the spring.  I might give it a shoot to replace them, are they hard to change? advice?

the rear sway looks factory, it mounts to the rear frame rail, and there is studs in the frame rail that sure look factory, the frame rail studs have square holes in them where these studs are mounted.  If it's not factory it sure must have been installed right?

[charger Downunder]

Put the car on a flat level concrete surface make sure you check tyre presures first, measure from the ground to the bottom edge of the wheel arches in the centre take measurments at each wheel draw a little plan to help adjust front torsion bars where needed,jack front up to take load of bars adjust and bounce car or take for a quick drive to level out the new adjustments and re do your measurments as you lower eg the right front it will raise the left rear and as you lower the left front it will raise the right rear, Have fun it may take some time but you should get it near enough mines half an inch out its nearly imposible to get perfect but it wont be as noticable.

[Mike DC]

 
If you're trying to figure out whether or not you've got the car sitting level on its wheels, you'll tear your hair out trying to measure anything from the ground to the car.  (Never-quite-level ground, tire inflation, body panel alignment differences, etc.)

It works a lot better stretching the measuring tape from some point on the suspension to the body/frame, rather than from the ground to the body.  You could measure the location of the center point of the wheel to the lip of each wheelwell, or something else like that. 

 

[69chargeryeehaa]

my garage is completely level, and in my garage, and where ever i go and park the car, the rear pass side is about 1/2-1" lower than the drivers.  The front is fine but shows a slight lean from the back being off.  I was given a tip of another  car guy, and he said he chased a lean for a long time, changing everything, the leafs fixed it.  But as i'm looking at the leaf springs, they look mint, and the car has very low mileage, only 52000mi, and as i'm looking at the leaf spring front hole, it does'nt look like it's in the middle, so i'm thinking that the leafspring front bushing is bad.  I don't want to muck with the front suspension, just the rear because that's where the problem is.  So my question is how hard is it to change all the bushings in the front and rear of the springs?

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Fairly sure the front bushing is pressed in.  The rear shackle bushings are not...they just slide in there.

When I got my new springs the front eye bushing was already installed

[69chargeryeehaa]

i see.  so can the front bushings be changed? anyone?

[bill440rt]

Yes. It can be changed.
You can use original style rubber, or they also make them in polygraphite/urethane.

However, for the price of new bushings, then the labor to remove & install your old springs, and to have a shop press the new bushings in for you (if you don't have a press), a new set of MP springs are only about $200. Might be worth looking in to.

But, that may not fix your problem. It might be as easy as adjusting your torsion bars.

[69chargeryeehaa]

i would like to fix the problem, and not mask it by adjusting the torsion bars, that would probabally effect handling, and it's really obvious that it's the rear suspension that is low not the front.  I have a 12tonn press, actually it's perty small (upright style), i was thinking i could lay it on it's side, and press in/out the bushings in the car without removing the axle from the spring, that sure would make it easy, if i support the body from the frame, unbolt the drive shaft, and unbolt the front eyelets on both sides, it should be quite easy now that i think about it.  could'nt you just use a bolt and big washer to install them anyways.??  how much force is needed to install these bushings???

[375instroke]

Adjust the torsions.  If the front really is level and the rear is uneven, then the car is twisted.  Has it been wrecked?  If not, adjust the torsions.  If you really want to do it the correct way, you need to weigh all four corners of the car and get the weights even on all four sides and adjust the ride height on all four sides.  Is this car going 200mph at Daytona?  Then adjust the torsions.  Were only talking about 1/2" to 1", right?  By the way, since the pass side is lower, are you checking with the drivers weight in the seat?

[Back N Black]

I have the same problem with my car (69) it sits 1" lower on the passenger side. Last night i pulled the springs and discovered the passenger bushing on the front of the spring was seized, could not move it. The driver side was fine, moved no problem.The position that it was seized(i believe) would give you the 1" squat on the suspension.

[69chargeryeehaa]

Adjust the torsions.  If the front really is level and the rear is uneven, then the car is twisted.  Has it been wrecked?  If not, adjust the torsions.  If you really want to do it the correct way, you need to weigh all four corners of the car and get the weights even on all four sides and adjust the ride height on all four sides.  Is this car going 200mph at Daytona?  Then adjust the torsions.  Were only talking about 1/2" to 1", right?  By the way, since the pass side is lower, are you checking with the drivers weight in the seat?

I don't understand the mentality of correcting the problem with the front suspension when the problem is clearly in the rear.  There is obviously an issue in the rear, and i want to address it properlly, not mask it by adjusting the front to compensate for an issue in the rear??

[69chargeryeehaa]

I have the same problem with my car (69) it sits 1" lower on the passenger side. Last night i pulled the springs and discovered the passenger bushing on the front of the spring was seized, could not move it. The driver side was fine, moved no problem.The position that it was seized(i believe) would give you the 1" squat on the suspension.

now that makes sense, actually as i mentioned before, i did look at the front bushing and it's very clear that the front spring bushing is not sitting in the middle, so now my question to you is how did you fix it?  Did you replace the bushing? and if so how?

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

i see.  so can the front bushings be changed? anyone?

Hmmm...I thought I answered you already in the above post.   Again, the bushings are pressed in.  Looking at the FSM page 17-4 & 17-5 it explains exactly how to press in & out the new eye bushing using tool C-3709 which consists of a bunch of sockets & washers & a really long bolt & nut combo.  Im sure you cant get this tool anymore so you might have to rig something up
When your done with that the torque spec is 125 ft lbs for the eye bolt & 45 ftlbs for the shackle bolts with the suspension fully loaded (on ground)

I highly recommend getting a FSM if you dont already have one.

[69chargeryeehaa]

i see.  so can the front bushings be changed? anyone?

Hmmm...I thought I answered you already in the above post.   Again, the bushings are pressed in.  Looking at the FSM page 17-4 & 17-5 it explains exactly how to press in & out the new eye bushing using tool C-3709 which consists of a bunch of sockets & washers & a really long bolt & nut combo.  Im sure you cant get this tool anymore so you might have to rig something up
When your done with that the torque spec is 125 ft lbs for the eye bolt & 45 ftlbs for the shackle bolts with the suspension fully loaded (on ground)

I highly recommend getting a FSM if you dont already have one.

thanks for the info, you mentioned in your post that it came with the spring installed, and i'm after weather or not it can be changed, sorry for the confusion. 

i'd love to have a FSM, just where to get it from?

i'm still after someone that has actually replaced the bushing in the front?   

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Year One sells them repro or you can try to get an original used one off ebay like I did.  They are invaluable to have when restoring these cars.

They even have them on CD now!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Dodge-CD-Shop-Manual-Charger-Coronet-Super-Bee_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34218QQihZ007QQitemZ170147092397QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[firefighter3931]

i'm still after someone that has actually replaced the bushing in the front?   

I've done a few over the years. The easiest way to get the old rubber bushings out of there is with a torch....just burn them out. If you go with rubber replacements then they will need to be pressed in. The Poly bushings are not pressed....they just slide in, real easy.

The bushings sound old from what you're describing. The springs may look mint but if they're original to the car then they might be tired. Personally, i would pull the springs and take them to a suspension shop and have the spring rates verified. They might need to replace a leaf or two if the metal has fatigued over time. The new bushings could be pressed in at that time or you could do it yourself. I would also do the shackle bushings while you're at it. 


Ron

[375instroke]

Adjust the torsions.  If the front really is level and the rear is uneven, then the car is twisted.  Has it been wrecked?  If not, adjust the torsions.  If you really want to do it the correct way, you need to weigh all four corners of the car and get the weights even on all four sides and adjust the ride height on all four sides.  Is this car going 200mph at Daytona?  Then adjust the torsions.  Were only talking about 1/2" to 1", right?  By the way, since the pass side is lower, are you checking with the drivers weight in the seat?

I don't understand the mentality of correcting the problem with the front suspension when the problem is clearly in the rear.  There is obviously an issue in the rear, and i want to address it properlly, not mask it by adjusting the front to compensate for an issue in the rear??

If you do find a problem, then yes, fix it, but how do you know where the problem is if everything passes inspection?  Checking the weight of each corner of the car will tell you if there is a problem, but what if one side of the car weighs more than the other?  What if the leaf springs are good and the front right torsion bar is weak?  What I'm saying is that the whole car is connected together, and what you notice at the right rear may not be where the problem is, and since the front is adjustable, the front adjustment may be what's off.  The car is 39 years old now, and who knows how many times the adjusters have been turned over the years.  You also say that the problem is clearly in the rear.  How could the rear be off and not the front unless the car is twisted?

[69chargeryeehaa]

Adjust the torsions.  If the front really is level and the rear is uneven, then the car is twisted.  Has it been wrecked?  If not, adjust the torsions.  If you really want to do it the correct way, you need to weigh all four corners of the car and get the weights even on all four sides and adjust the ride height on all four sides.  Is this car going 200mph at Daytona?  Then adjust the torsions.  Were only talking about 1/2" to 1", right?  By the way, since the pass side is lower, are you checking with the drivers weight in the seat?

I don't understand the mentality of correcting the problem with the front suspension when the problem is clearly in the rear.  There is obviously an issue in the rear, and i want to address it properlly, not mask it by adjusting the front to compensate for an issue in the rear??

If you do find a problem, then yes, fix it, but how do you know where the problem is if everything passes inspection?  Checking the weight of each corner of the car will tell you if there is a problem, but what if one side of the car weighs more than the other?  What if the leaf springs are good and the front right torsion bar is weak?  What I'm saying is that the whole car is connected together, and what you notice at the right rear may not be where the problem is, and since the front is adjustable, the front adjustment may be what's off.  The car is 39 years old now, and who knows how many times the adjusters have been turned over the years.  You also say that the problem is clearly in the rear.  How could the rear be off and not the front unless the car is twisted?

when the car is on level, like in my garage, where it's almost perfectly level, the pass rear is clearly the lowest point.  I took some quick measurments from the same points on the frame from the rear and the front.  the pass rear side was almost 1" lower than the drivers, and in the front, the pass side was less than 1/8" which tells me that the front pass side is lower due to the issue in the rear.  It's not rocket science, i don't have 4 scales, and i don't need them to tell me what my eyes see, and that is simply that the pass rear is low.  The car is not twisted, never hit anywhere, all original, with 52000mi on it, so i'd think it's safe to say that it is the bushing, and possibly a leaf spring, or a combo of both.  The entire suspension is completely original, as is the exhaust, so this has to tell you what shape the car is in.  It drives perfect, no pull at all, it's just simply a tired spring as many have suggested, or that front spring bushing which is the only thing i can see on the car that's not right, i can physically see the eyelet is out of center with the bolt.  IF i repair the rear, and i'm satisified that i've addressed the issue in the rear/ and the car still leans, then and only then will i play with the front suspension.  i think that makes sence no?

[Back N Black]

I have the same problem with my car (69) it sits 1" lower on the passenger side. Last night i pulled the springs and discovered the passenger bushing on the front of the spring was seized, could not move it. The driver side was fine, moved no problem.The position that it was seized(i believe) would give you the 1" squat on the suspension.


now that makes sense, actually as i mentioned before, i did look at the front bushing and it's very clear that the front spring bushing is not sitting in the middle, so now my question to you is how did you fix it?  Did you replace the bushing? and if so how?






I'm planning on installing new springs tonight,sorry can't help with the bushing replacement.I'm pretty sure it will not lean with new springs.
good luck and let us know what you find.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Im still sticking with pass side rear hard launch spring fatigue.......heck just looking at mine the other day I found this...

pass side eye bushing seems to be walking out of my springs a bit.......too many hard launches!   Drive it like you stole it is my motto

[Ghoste]

Need to repaint in there too Chris, look at the rust starting on that spring eye. 

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Thats from actually driving the car & getting caught in the rain every now & then  

[69chargeryeehaa]

Well it's been a while, but i do have a update.

For those of you who suggested to adjust the front suspension, you were right...

I ended up measuring the front and rear, both sides, and then alot of trial and error, basically adjusted the pass front higher, and the drivers front lower, it took about 5 tries, take the jack off every time and go around the block to settle it, then re-measure, and adjust again, but now the car finally sits absoultly level, within 3mm from side to side, that's good enough for me, the car drives perfectly straight, i'm glad it's finally resolved.  I do have new rear springs and all the hardware, i still think there is a spring that is sagging, but at least for now it's perfectly level.....